Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[XReyoX]

Mod

: could you pls prod everyone saying that D2 has already started.
If this is not possible, could you at least prod:
spectrumvoid (more than a month of inactivity)
Wizardcat
bird1111
Akbar

Thx

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

1 DrippingGoofball (theopor_COD)

2 Raffles (Fuldu, Mr. Flay)

Not voting: 16

10 to lynch

[theopor_COD]

Although OTU has already been banished. I somehow want to hear the reasons why people have voted for him. This includes "Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, remussaidow, PBuG, Scarecrow, al4x, theopor_COD and IH." Some of the people didn't actually give their reasons.

@theopor_COD: You were pointing at remus before the end of D1. Do you not think he is a scum now?

I'd need to review things since I posted regarding him, DGB struck as being one of the most opportunistic on the OTU wagon. Plus she's not brought anything content wise to the game, either she's unhelpful town or lurker scum.

[Fuldu]

@theopor_COD: You were pointing at remus before the end of D1. Do you not think he is a scum now?

Bah. That reminds me that remus did something in the now lost bits of the original Day Two that had me voting him. I wish I could remember what it was.

[Raffles]

Reyo, those are interesting set of reasons. Baring in mind that Al4xz's reason is also in there, who do you think are some of the most scummiest from that list?

[DrippingGoofball]

@Reyo

What conclusions do you draw from your compilation?

You might want to consider looking at the players that have stayed OFF the wagon, too. As in scum that does not want to commit/compromise themselves on what they know is a townie wagon.

[XReyoX]

@Fuldu: I can't remember as well. Could it be something about his comment on the night scene?

@raffles, DGB : To be honest, none of the reasons they have provided look convincing for me to vote. Well that was the reason why i didn't vote him. I have said that his vote on me was too opportunistic. His unvote saying he thinks I'm just being a newb is the reason why I was so unsure about whether he is a scum. Someone has to get lynch in order to yield information to go on today. That is why I was asking about the deadline mechanics. I'm sure some of the people in the list are scums ( this doesn't mean that people not in the list aren't). If all 11 people are townies, then i think the town is hopeless in winning. Therefore, I'm asking whether I've missed something. Some of the reasons are worse than "otu's let's get rid of this nuisance". DGB your "explore this avenue =_=", Fuldu's "scummy for all reasons decscribed", scarecrow's invisible reason...

I can't handle everyone all at the same time. I'll be looking at people who stayed off the wagon as well. I however disagree that some scums stayed off the wagon because they know is a townie wagon. The truth is that they don't. There are 2 groups of scums here. Before otu's death scene, the scums do not know whether he's a town or a scum in the other group. I would say that the reasons to stay off would be 1) they predicted that otu was going to die anyway and it doesn't matter as long as their scummate weren't going to get lynch. 2) some of them hop on and some of them stay off so that, on D2, if someone focus on the people who has hopped on and catches them, as least some of them would be saved by staying off.

@theopor_COD, Fuldu, DGB: Are all your reasons listed in my list. Was those all the reasons that made you think OTU was the right lynch?

[Fuldu]

@Fuldu: I can't remember as well. Could it be something about his comment on the night scene?

It might have been, but it's not exactly fair to to be speculating on why I suspected someone when the material isn't here any more. I just didn't want to give him a complete pass on it.

@theopor_COD, Fuldu, DGB: Are all your reasons listed in my list. Was those all the reasons that made you think OTU was the right lynch?

As time went on and OTU didn't really respond to people's concerns and then vanished altogether, he became a better lynch in my eyes, especially for Day One.

[Mr. Flay]

XReyoX: You also missed that I asked him to vote for someone, repeatedly, so we could see who he was suspicious of. And he explicitly posted 3 times without claiming, but stalling/"having difficulty".

Here's a counterpoint to XReyoX's reason count, which is what I was hoping to get out of even a townie lynch of the supremely unhelpful OTU (bold are new voters, struck people are unvoters, obviously):
03/12/07 Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles
03/13/07

DrippingGoofball

, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles
03/15/07

Battle Mage

, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles
03/16/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles
03/18/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles
03/21/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin,

Mr Flay, remussaidow

, Raffles
03/23/07

al4xz

, Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay,

PBuG

, remussaidow, Raffles
03/25/07 al4xz, Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Raffles
03/26/07

al4xz

, Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Raffles - just unvoted
03/27/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu,

Kison

, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Raffles
03/30/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Kison, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Raffles
04/02/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu,

Kison

, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay,

PBuG

, remussaidow, Raffles - both went to the remussaidow wagon
04/03/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay,

PBuG

, remussaidow,

Scarecrow

,

Raffles

- just unvoted
04/03/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Scarecrow,

al4xz, theopor_COD

04/07/07 Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Mr Flay, PBuG, remussaidow, Scarecrow, al4xz, theopor_COD,

IH

- HAMMER!

The most suspicious votes to me here are MoS, Raffles, and Scarecrow. MoS somewhat because his second vote just happened to stay throughout the entire Day; Scarecrow because he voted with no commentary/reasons after being prodded, which ensured our deadline lynch could go through. But Raffles' unvote as the deadline loomed is scummy to me in the "oh crap I'm gonna lynch a townie" sense, his reasoning for hopping off is confused, and this gem of a post:

OTU has disappeared at most crucial of times...

I'm not there to place the hammer when the deadline comes I'm afraid, someone else needs to do that.

pointed out earlier by Fuldu earlier, is just creepy. "Somebody else please hammer this person I unvoted so they can get blamed for it and not me!"

Combine that with his distancing from al4 today, and I say we've got another ESE member.

[XReyoX]

@Fuldu

I believe that the reason is a minor one anyway since no one could remember it.

This it the list of the votes
Raffles #112 [1]
Fuldu #124 [2]
MoS #130 [3]
DGB#153 [4]
BM #202 [5]
Remus #289 [6]
Mr Flay #311 [7]
PBuG #318 [8]
Alex #323 [9]
Alex #369 unvote [8]
---Mod announced that deadline is approaching #377--
Kison #382 [9]
PBuG #419 unvote [8]
Kison #423 unvote [7]
Raffles #448 unvote [6]
PBuG #455 [7]
Scarecrow #457 [8]
Alex #483 [9]
Theopor_COD #494 [10]
IH #515 [11]

[Battle Mage]

thats a strong case from Flay.

Vote: Raffles

also note that im a bit wary of xreyox. he seems a little TOO protown for my liking. seems a bit false...
BM

[XReyoX]

I'm not too concerned about the hammering. After the deadline was released and we know that 6 votes would suffice for lynching otu, Kison's and raffles' unvotes look like otu's death wouldn't be blamed on them if it is a town lynch. The crucial point is that after the unvote, the vote count on otu is still enough for the lynch, thus making sure he would die.

[XReyoX]

XReyoX: You also missed that I asked him to vote for someone, repeatedly, so we could see who he was suspicious of. And he explicitly posted 3 times without claiming, but stalling/"having difficulty".

Combine that with his distancing from al4 today, and I say we've got another ESE member.

from the least, you are the first one to point out that the lack of movement of the wagon is suspicious, and to me was a point worth considering at that time. Together with the increase in your activity and constantly asking otu to contribute makes me think you are less scummy than the others in the list atm. sorry that i've missed that reason.

[Raffles]

Well given either no lynch or OTU, which one would you want? I know which one I would go for.

[Raffles]

thats a strong case from Flay.

Vote: Raffles

also note that im a bit wary of xreyox. he seems a little TOO protown for my liking. seems a bit false...
BM

*coughtootowniecough*

[Raffles]

But Raffles' unvote as the deadline loomed is scummy to me in the "oh crap I'm gonna lynch a townie" sense, his reasoning for hopping off is confused

That makes no sense. If I was a scum, why would it matter to me if I lynch a scum or a townie? Sure, it might be a better idea to lynch the opponent scum, but I wouldn't be a one to bitch so long as I don't lynch my scummate.

[XReyoX]

Well given either no lynch or OTU, which one would you want? I know which one I would go for.

Getting a town lynch is not always worse than no lynch i think. If we didn't lynch anyone, the doc might not be able to work out what to do last night. Ending up with 2 townie NK with nothing to go on today would be worse than the situation we are at atm.

[Kison]

Well given either no lynch or OTU, which one would you want? I know which one I would go for.

Getting a town lynch is not always worse than no lynch i think. If we didn't lynch anyone, the doc might not be able to work out what to do last night. Ending up with 2 townie NK with nothing to go on today would be worse than the situation we are at atm.

First of all, I agree with you here, XReyoX. No-lynch basically sets us back, primarily because we have very little to go on the next day. In OTU's case, he was participating less and less, and even as a town, that's not a huge loss to us in comparison to someone who had been participating more, while the case against him wasn't necessarily weak.

[XReyoX]

@BM: I don't like you saying that I'm being too pro-town for a potential reason for being a scum. I wasn't trying to tell other people that i'm a town because i'm doing all this. Most of your posts haven't contribute to the town in my eyes

:arrow:

BM

#145. OTU look alot worse than anyone else.
#202. OTU seems very scummy at the moment.

vote

#207. Not only did u commit the major scumtell of voting me for no reason, you have also been acting very scummy in this game so far.
#439. I also agree that the lack of movement on the OTU wagon is very suspicious.

This includes " vote raffles because Mr Flay's has put up a strong case"

I do not like you not responding to my post as well. Are those all your reasons for keeping your votes on OTU?

[Raffles]

No Reyo, I would have chosen to lynch OTU rather than have no lynch. I understand that much.

[XReyoX]

In OTU's case, he was participating less and less, and even as a town, that's not a huge loss to us in comparison to someone who had been participating more, while the case against him wasn't necessarily weak.

The case against him wasn't strong in my opinion. The problem was that no one appeared incredibly scummy. Something about remus was building up at the end of the day but it was too late. Also, when hundreds of people were focusing on OTU's post, someone would obviously find a scumtell, not to mention that there are also scums making fake reasons and magnifying them. I was expecting OTU to be a vanilla if he is a town. I generally think that power-role people would commit more since the game would be more interesting to them. Now, this has proven that I was wrong.

[XReyoX]

No Reyo, I would have chosen to lynch OTU rather than have no lynch. I understand that much.

The point is that he have unvoted.

[XReyoX]

* I mean "you have unvoted"

[IH]

That makes no sense. If I was a scum, why would it matter to me if I lynch a scum or a townie? Sure, it might be a better idea to lynch the opponent scum, but I wouldn't be a one to bitch so long as I don't lynch my scummate.

You look cleaner if you're not on the mislynch, duh. Scum backaway sharpish when a deadline hits, since they get the joys of a mislynch, and not having to be on it, therefore not connecting them to the town lynch.

BM is still using bad logic

Reyo, the OTU lynch was obvious at the time. Just going through his posts in the filter can tell you that.

[Raffles]

But aren't mislynches a normal occurence? Then why would scum care if they are on the mislynch wagon?