NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Titus]

Ok, so can we get back to lynching SSK?

Never left his wagon.

[Empire]

Day 3, Votecount 22

MafiaSSK (6)

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Sakura Hana, RadiantCowbells, Norlkaz, Ms Marangal, Titus, Ser Arthur Dayne

Titus (2)

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goodmorning, pieguyn

Norlkaz (1)

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KoreanBBQ

Not Voting (7)

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F-16_Fighting_Falcon, MafiaSSK, zMuffinMan, geists, Prophylaxis, Casso the King of Seals, Generic

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch! Deadline is on January 26th at 4:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2014-01-26 17:28:18)

Mod Notes

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N/A

[Norlkaz]

People who are probably town:
Me
SH
F16
Geists
Mara?
GM?

IONO:
Pieguy
Generic (Haven't really looked at; slightly sketched out but can he fake his mad?)
SAD (don't remember)
Muffin
BBQ (just did round 1; inconclusive)

Probably a decent number of scum here:
Casso
Prophylaxis
Titus
COWBELL
SSK

But yeah, let's just do SSK. It will probably be easier for me to read for real when an actual choice is being made.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

what do you think of the associatives between SAD and zmuffin?

regardless of

SAD's

muffin's alignment, i'm town here. so get over your boner for me, i don't swing that way, tia

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The desire to push through the day

Yes.

the soft defence of Titus with a qualifier that he was townreading ceph...

And yes.

Not a fan of that post at all.

I don't see how either of the former two statements lead to this conclusion but ummm... rock on?

[KoreanBBQ]

People who are probably town:
Me

Why are you only probably town?

[goodmorning]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

This is actually not the worst case ever.

Ofc, Casso is Scum, but other than that, not horrible.

I approve of Norl's most recent readslist.

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

This is actually not the worst case ever.

Ofc, Casso is Scum, but other than that, not horrible.

I approve of Norl's most recent readslist.

I'm actually town so yeah, it takes me awhile to get moving but once I get moving I sound a lot smarter. Let's talk and hash some things out.

First, your post implies that there's a problem with thinking Casso is scum and that you think I like Casso as town. This is partially accurate, as I like his playing but not his votes on day 1. Care to elaborate to help me figure out which is more likely Casso?

Second, if you think Casso being is scum as horrible, why would you approve of Norl's readlist? ~confused~

[geists]

People who are probably town:
Me
SH
F16
Geists
Mara?
GM?

IONO:
Pieguy
Generic (Haven't really looked at; slightly sketched out but can he fake his mad?)
SAD (don't remember)
Muffin
BBQ (just did round 1; inconclusive)

Probably a decent number of scum here:
Casso
Prophylaxis
Titus
COWBELL
SSK

But yeah, let's just do SSK. It will probably be easier for me to read for real when an actual choice is being made.

It looks like our reads are converging.

@KBBQ do you guys have thoughts about the reads list I posted yesterday?

[pieguyn]

regardless of SAD's alignment, i'm town here. so get over your boner for me, i don't swing that way, tia

why so defensive? I don't even have you on the table today. like at all. I'm waiting for SAD to flip before going after you bc if he somehow flips town that screws up the whole SAD-zmuffin theory (and a lot of my case on you is based on associatives to him). are you in shock that I'm not actually townreading you

in the meantime, can you explain why I moved up a tier in your townlist?

P.Ed: My take on that is buddying, and speaking of Bert, perhaps you should check what happened during the last few pages of Day 2 with regards to voting, or ISO me and look for my case on Bert and his awful response to it.

walk me through this. first off, do you think his erratic voting is necessarily bc he's scum? if he gets lost in large games then I'd think this could be attributed to that instead

second, which posts exactly looked fake? I'm inclined to agree his interaction with you was kind of fake and/or forced, but I suck at figuring out if posts are fake or not. and if the best way to judge Bert is based off sincerity, then that should be p telling. does town Bert usually respond differently to cases on him?

[Empire]

Prodding Casso the King of Seals.

[pieguyn]

I have a relatively small sample of scum-Bert games, between what I've played and what I've read. None of his scum games have been exactly like the others, but the sincerity and transparency seem hard for him to fake.

Something else that has characterized his recent scum games (the ones I was in) is that I die on night 1 (or maybe my first night in the game). Now that I've said that out loud I wouldn't assume that surviving a night or two in future games indicates he's town.

do you think he'd be able to fake the way he was acting when he replaced in?

I'm basically in the same position as you. I had a town-as-fuck read on him when he came in and then it's gotten weaker and weaker bc he's not doing anything. but I still wanna call him town bc his replace in seemed town as fuck. but on the other hand what Generic said about Proph is making me hesitate a whole fking lot 0.0

and what are your thoughts on his interactions with Sakura and ATE? does he usually act like that as town?

[KoreanBBQ]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

To be fair to Hana, these are the day 1 major wagons in FEA. (sans the wagon on scum)
PeregrineV 7 (chesskid3, Thirdkoopa, talah, ActionDan, Saki, Ellibereth, notscience)

only one team scum on this wagon

Makiavel 6 (Nero Cain, chesskid3, Ellibereth, GoodCop_BadCop, Rift Adrift, notscience)
one scum

Sakura Hana 7 (chesskid3, Ellibereth, T S O, GoodCop_BadCop, ActionDan, Nero Cain, Nat
no scum

talah 6 (BulbaFenix, Maestro, Nero Cain, Natirasha, Makiavel-slot, Sakura Hana)
one scum

This limited data suggests (and I personally have the same theory) that town are more responsible for running up a wagon than scum. I think its a totes natural town reaction to think a wagon is scum lead.

Hana is prob town unless you think she's faking the whole "I quit mafia!"/edit signature thing. I think someone called that the blacklist tell.
Do you think she is faking?

[KoreanBBQ]

@KBBQ do you guys have thoughts about the reads list I posted yesterday?

Why are you asking this? I'll have to iso to find it and get back to you.

We are a null read to you?

[geists]

I have a relatively small sample of scum-Bert games, between what I've played and what I've read. None of his scum games have been exactly like the others, but the sincerity and transparency seem hard for him to fake.

Something else that has characterized his recent scum games (the ones I was in) is that I die on night 1 (or maybe my first night in the game). Now that I've said that out loud I wouldn't assume that surviving a night or two in future games indicates he's town.

do you think he'd be able to fake the way he was acting when he replaced in?

I'm basically in the same position as you. I had a town-as-fuck read on him when he came in and then it's gotten weaker and weaker bc he's not doing anything. but I still wanna call him town bc his replace in seemed town as fuck. but on the other hand what Generic said about Proph is making me hesitate a whole fking lot 0.0

and what are your thoughts on his interactions with Sakura and ATE? does he usually act like that as town?

Bert and I both replaced into this newbie game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5320762

He was scum.

My impression is that he can't fake the sincerity as scum, but he can throw enough chaos into his gameplay that you don't notice it's missing unless you're looking for it. That seemed to be true of Mala's Castle mini, which I meta'd. I described his play in that game as a burlesque of his town game.

[geists]

@KBBQ do you guys have thoughts about the reads list I posted yesterday?

Why are you asking this? I'll have to iso to find it and get back to you.

Because if we disagree I want to learn why and see if I think I'm wrong or I think you're wrong.

We are a null read to you?

Nope!

[KoreanBBQ]

Town

MC Maraca/Ms Marangal
Good Morning
Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) (stronger ffery read, lean town for Nati)

Lean Town

Generic
Sakura Hana
pieguyn

Limbo

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (ffery is lean-town, Nati is null)
Bert/Proph - More content from Proph will change this
zMuffinMan (Nati is lean-town, ffery is null)
Ser Arthur Dayne
Norkalz (Nati really doesn't like this version of llamarble. ffery is null and kinda likes that post that just popped up in p-edit)

Scum

BROseidon/Radiant Cowbells (close to null but his below-the-radar play on day 2 scares both of us. ffery is thinking really hard about xenoblade about now.
Ceph/Titus (fell from null-town in part due to argument with generic and in part due to titus entrance and subsequent horrible pushes.)
MafiaSSK - confscum

Mara/GM, Casso, KKB, Gen, Hana, pie, f-16, Proph, Muffin, SAD, Norl, RC, Titus, SSK<-that would be your list laid out.

Town<<<kbbq, Gen,f-16, geists, Mara/GM, Casso, Pie, muffin, Bro, proph, SAD, Norl, Titus, SSK>>>scum

Our lists seem pretty similar.

Do you think that you and Norl's reads converging makes him town?

[KoreanBBQ]

Also I'm going to watch part 3 of Klondike so we can disscuss more later.

[KoreanBBQ]

Also I'm going to watch part 3 of Klondike so we can disscuss more later.

[KoreanBBQ]

I like that icecream.

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

To be fair to Hana, these are the day 1 major wagons in FEA. (sans the wagon on scum)
PeregrineV 7 (chesskid3, Thirdkoopa, talah, ActionDan, Saki, Ellibereth, notscience)

only one team scum on this wagon

Makiavel 6 (Nero Cain, chesskid3, Ellibereth, GoodCop_BadCop, Rift Adrift, notscience)
one scum

Sakura Hana 7 (chesskid3, Ellibereth, T S O, GoodCop_BadCop, ActionDan, Nero Cain, Nat
no scum

talah 6 (BulbaFenix, Maestro, Nero Cain, Natirasha, Makiavel-slot, Sakura Hana)
one scum

This limited data suggests (and I personally have the same theory) that town are more responsible for running up a wagon than scum. I think its a totes natural town reaction to think a wagon is scum lead.

Hana is prob town unless you think she's faking the whole "I quit mafia!"/edit signature thing. I think someone called that the blacklist tell.
Do you think she is faking?

If someone is aware of a tell, you have to be considering the possibility of a fake.

I LOVE fucking with tells as scum. It was my main drive in Fire and Ice.

[geists]

Town

MC Maraca/Ms Marangal
Good Morning
Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) (stronger ffery read, lean town for Nati)

Lean Town

Generic
Sakura Hana
pieguyn

Limbo

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (ffery is lean-town, Nati is null)
Bert/Proph - More content from Proph will change this
zMuffinMan (Nati is lean-town, ffery is null)
Ser Arthur Dayne
Norkalz (Nati really doesn't like this version of llamarble. ffery is null and kinda likes that post that just popped up in p-edit)

Scum

BROseidon/Radiant Cowbells (close to null but his below-the-radar play on day 2 scares both of us. ffery is thinking really hard about xenoblade about now.
Ceph/Titus (fell from null-town in part due to argument with generic and in part due to titus entrance and subsequent horrible pushes.)
MafiaSSK - confscum

Mara/GM, Casso, KKB, Gen, Hana, pie, f-16, Proph, Muffin, SAD, Norl, RC, Titus, SSK<-that would be your list laid out.

Town<<<kbbq, Gen,f-16, geists, Mara/GM, Casso, Pie, muffin, Bro, proph, SAD, Norl, Titus, SSK>>>scum

Our lists seem pretty similar.

Do you think that you and Norl's reads converging makes him town?

My list isn't seriatim so the layout differences are kinda meh.

The one that jumps out to me is that you have RC/Bro more in the null range and I have them in my scumpile. Radiant Cowbells could change that, but not by disappearing.

I'm liking Norl better the last few days.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

This is actually not the worst case ever.

Ofc, Casso is Scum, but other than that, not horrible.

I'm actually town so yeah, it takes me awhile to get moving but once I get moving I sound a lot smarter. Let's talk and hash some things out.

First, your post implies that there's a problem with thinking Casso is scum and that you think I like Casso as town. This is partially accurate, as I like his playing but not his votes on day 1. Care to elaborate to help me figure out which is more likely Casso?

Second, if you think Casso being is scum as horrible, why would you approve of Norl's readlist? ~confused~

I'm saying you eliminated Casso for case purposes as Sakura townreads them, and that they're obviously Scum but that doesn't change the fact that's not a horrible case to make.

Mara and to some extent ffery disagree with me, so I'm going back over them tonight and will post what I come up with in QT just in case I die.

I'm not going over them today because I'm too lazy.

[pieguyn]

Bert and I both replaced into this newbie game: viewtopic.php?p=5320762#p5320762

He was scum.

My impression is that he can't fake the sincerity as scum, but he can throw enough chaos into his gameplay that you don't notice it's missing unless you're looking for it. That seemed to be true of Mala's Castle mini, which I meta'd. I described his play in that game as a burlesque of his town game.

talk to me about this chaos. his opening seemed really chaotic and p much no one had any idea what the hell he was doing, so do you think that's what's he was doing here?

I'm really undecided bc I think his town game is chaotic too and there were some parts that looked really sincere like 2368 and 2402. what do you think?

actually looking through Bert's ISO I'm relatively certain he's town. if he's scum I'll feel outright trolled

[geists]

Bert and I both replaced into this newbie game: viewtopic.php?p=5320762#p5320762

He was scum.

My impression is that he can't fake the sincerity as scum, but he can throw enough chaos into his gameplay that you don't notice it's missing unless you're looking for it. That seemed to be true of Mala's Castle mini, which I meta'd. I described his play in that game as a burlesque of his town game.

talk to me about this chaos. his opening seemed really chaotic and p much no one had any idea what the hell he was doing, so do you think that's what's he was doing here?

I'm really undecided bc I think his town game is chaotic too and there were some parts that looked really sincere like 2368 and 2402. what do you think?

actually looking through Bert's ISO I'm relatively certain he's town. if he's scum I'll feel outright trolled

Yes, he's chaotic as town, too. I didn't mean to imply chaotic means scummy.

I'll look at his ISO again, but after the Red Wine game I'm not likely to give a replacement a free town card on the basis of their predecessor. The replacement will have to town it up also.