Mini 404: Diablo Mafia (Game Over)

[Skruffs]

*SNIFF*
go town!

[Thestatusquo]

I thought his claim was BS. It wasn't a matter of not 'caring that there was a chance it was true' there's always a chance a claim is true. It was a matter of me not believing the claim. Are you saying the pro town play is to not lynch a claim I don't believe?

(I understood your sentance. Unfortunately, it was your argument, not your grammar, which was flawed.)

[DragonsofSummer]

You keep saying that about arguements I make and I'm starting to find it funny. All I'm saying is you rushed into that lynch. It is fine if you didn't believe the claim, but you never really even gave him a chance either. You were dead set that he was the lynch for the day and tried to steer everyone else to that as well. A day three with no discussion at all is bad for the town in my opinion and I feel that you in a large way helped get us there.

[Thestatusquo]

Respond to my argument instead of ignoring it, please.

[DragonsofSummer]

Oh your question. I am not ignoring it, and the answer to it is no I do not feel that not lynching someone you believe to be scum is pro town play. But I also feel that quick lynching is not pro town play. Which is what I feel you were advocating yesterday.

[Thestatusquo]

How so? Please provide posts.

[DragonsofSummer]

You actually state that you are in post 493. To be honest though it is really just a gut feeling about the events of yesterday that has my vote on you right now. I think that really we need to get more discussion going today than just us two.

[DragonsofSummer]

EBWOP: A gut feeling about the pushing for his quick lynch, and not really something you said.

[Thestatusquo]

493 is remus.

495 is me asking NAR if he knows what OMGUS means.

490 is me telling skruffs that I will vote him after he claimed scum.

Which post are you referring to?

[DragonsofSummer]

You're right I meant post 498.

[Thestatusquo]

Try again. 498 is me telling NAR that my push is not OMGUS, as he was claiming.

[remussaidow]

TSQ, DoS is right. You pushed for a quick lynch. Quick lynching is very rarely beneficial for the town. It didn't help that Skruffs hammered himself, but you still pushed fairly hard for a non-protown lynch.

And I'm honestly still not sure what the case against Skruffs was to begin with either.

[Thestatusquo]

I was pushing hard for his lynch. I was not pushing for a quick lynch. If it would be different if I prematurely hammered him, but all I did was push hard for the lynch of someone I thought was surely scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Pat, the fact that he is completely not being able to point to a post where I was trying to quicklynch doesn't mean anything?

[remussaidow]

I am very very curious why nobody is pushing for more from TSQ. TSQ was the one who was *valiantly* struggling to keep TJM from having to claim - wanting a claim - any claim from DOS and then refusing it when he got it. He later said a whole bunch of stuff about how scum always gets fake claims, blah blah blah. HE FOSed me for agreeing with him about DOS - I thought he had made a fairly agreeable argument, personally.

Mr. Flay - have you gone back through my posts like you did TJM?
You seemed determined to get me lynched as soon as I hammered TJM - you even said so. Is your attack on me based on anything other than a quote from a Monkey Island game with a smiley at the end? Have you looked at my other quotes?

C-D : Remember this?

At the time you brought the bandwagon, there was already another wagon with 5 votes that isn't based on randomness. That is currently a "full-fledged" bandwagon. Starting another bandwagon is a distraction since it gives the pressured leeway and a chance to escape. In addition, it can be argued that you might also be his partner, hence you didn't find TJM scummy.

Hint : It was before the claims, and it wasn't me you directed it towards.

Anyways so yeah if TJM is scum it's likely that TSQ is too, if DOS is scum it's likely that CES or Remus might be as well.
Personally, I'm willing to accept both claims. THis goes agaginst Livingod, who wants to lynch both of them. Greedy little bugga.

In short, the easy lynch is not the right lynch. You can lynch me, and be sad because you lynched me, and it was the wrong lynch, or you can lynch

THE STATUS QUO

and be happy and whatnot. I feel I'm being lynched for putting the hammer on scum, or for contemplating his claim, etc... but I can fully understand the reasoning behind it.

What sucks is that after a mislynch today you guys will completely forget about what I said about TSQ tommorrow

, and lynch livingod or someone else, instead. And that makes me sad. v.v Sad little demon tears, pouring down my face. v.v

Note: Skruffs was pushed for by TSQ heavily. I don't have much time, so I just went back to dredge up this post. Shea, I'll see if I can find the post that made me think you were trying for a quick lynch.

[Mr Stoofer]

I am really surprised about Skruffs - I was convinced he was scum.

I gave reasons for thinking he was scum in my first post in this game, but the decisive thing for me was TSQ's post 389, which looked to me like a cop with a guilty result (it was a straight vote, first post of the day, no reasoning). TSQ did exactly the same thing at the start of the next day (post 445) which made me certain he was a cop with a guilty on Skruffs.

Anyway, with Skruffs coming up town, I took a look at TSQ's posts and I didn't like what I saw (Scum highlighted in red for convenience):

After

TheJiveMachine

claimed, Thestatusquo defended him stoutly while pressuring DargonsofSummer (see posts 340, 342, 344, 346). All those posts should be read in full but some highlights include:

I want a roleclaim from DOS. I don't want to let him off the hook so easily. [Referring to

TheJiveMachine

I also see no reason why scum would claim something so...Rediculous when I am sure that any competant mod would give people good fake claims.

My thoughts on

TJM

: I think he may be our lynch for today, but I certainly wouldn't be too happy with it. I've been in many theme games, and every single one of them have included safe claims for the scum players. Therefore, I see no reason at all why
scum would not use those claims. I mean, you can say wifom, but I would argue it's not, because the benefits scum could get from claiming neutral are WAY outweighed by the fact that everyone wants to lynch the guy who "Is at best neutral"

That last quote is the sort of thing I would expect scum to say about his scumbuddy.


After DragonsofSummer gave more detail about his claim:

I am going to believe you for now, on the basis that you will eventually be proven wrong if you are lying.

unvote, vote

TJM

I don't find this convincing, especially since a couple of posts later we have this:

Unvote

the problem is that I have two people who I feel have played very scummy games, and two claims which I kinda believe. I am going to have to think this over.

Subsequent posts:

Thing is that I kinda want to leave them both [DragonsofSummer and

TheJiveMachine

] till tommorow, because I would give 50-50 odds on each being town right now.

CES, my point is that I think [DragonsofSummer and

TheJiveMachine

] might both be town, so I want to get back to scum hunting for today.

Interestingly, he also made a half-hearted defence of

livingod

the next day:

Like, I am not sure why

LG

would so strongly defend a scum buddy, however. Does he have any other games that anyone knows of so I can check if he's taken that strategy before?

I think that is enough to deserve a

vote: Thestatusquo

[Zindaras]

Official Voting Update

:

Thestatusquo

: 2 (DragonsofSummer, Mr Stoofer)

Not Voting

: 5 (al_kohaulec, remussaidow, Save the Dragons, StallingChamp, Thestatusquo)

[al_kohaulec]

ok, I'm here, Now I need to actually subscribe to this thread so that I can start reading it thoroughly. I've only gotten a few vague ideas so far on people's alignments.

[Save The Dragons]

So the arguements against TSQ is as follows:

DoS: TSQ didn't believe Skruff's claim, and TSQ pushed for a quicklynch in post 498.

To which I reply: Please tell me what WAS believable about Skruff's claim.

I'm tempted to have your claim be verified.

Remus: DoS is right, and Skruffs was clearly protown.

To which I reply: Please tell me what WAS believable about Skruff's claim.

Mr. Stoofer: I like that post. I'm not ready to vote yet but I'm thinkin' about it.

[Thestatusquo]

Stoofs, I don't see anything scummy in the way I reacted to the DoS, TJM thing. Three things.
1) I didn't defend TJM. I posted a case against DoS, because I thought he was clearly scum. Doesn't it make sense that I would be more inclined to believe my own research on DoS?

2) Pointing out a flaw in an argument against someone is not defending that person, it is only pointing out a flawed argument. Not only that, you AGREED with my analysis in your VERY NEXT post. So if you're using that as offense, you might as well vote yourself.

3) It is not my fault you read my role wrong. Voting me because you thought I was a cop when I wasn't is hardly a reason to vote someone.

Seeing as I'm two from lynch, I'd appreciate some unvotes for the moment. I don't see significant reason for me to claim right now.

[Thestatusquo]

EBWODP:

Std, do you do anything besides sit on the fence?

[DragonsofSummer]

StD I believed Skruffs claim for a few reasons.

1. I knew Frozenstein is actually in Diablo II, having played it myself.

2. Remus who has said Diablo II is is favorite game knew Frozenstein was in Diablo, and believed that he would be aligned that way. This second reason may be misguided, but I feel that remus is town and so am willing to believe him, especially based after yesterdays actions.

[remussaidow]

There was nothing unbelievable about Skruffs' claim. So far, all role names have been regenerating hero-monsters- ones who have the same name every time you play it, every time you go through a level, and you HAVE to fight them. Well, ok. Maybe not have to, but its really close.


TSQ has, on the other hand, made a good point on StD. His playstyle is often fairly aggressive as town and sitting-on-the-fence-ish as scum. (reference starwars mafia on the site www.magic4you.nu, in the non-magic related forum if you don't believe me.)

Note: I still heavily suspect TSQ, but there is no reason to quick lynch yet AGAIN

[Mr Stoofer]

TSQ: I'm not voting you because I wrongly thought you were the cop. I just mentioned that to explain my earlier confidence that Skruffs was scum.

My reasons for voting you start with the paragraph beginning: "Anyway, with Skruffs coming up town, I took a look at TSQ's posts..."

[Mr Stoofer]

Zindaras

: Can you prod some people please. I note that StallingChamp seems to be following in his predecessor's footsteps and not bothering to post.