Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

The vote count. Am I not good enough to be counted with everyone else...?

[Elyse]

Oops.

[Wisdom]

Yay for incoming penguin mislynch

[penguin_alien]

I don't like that her scumread on Mala disregards everything that penguin was publicly mulling over before; I feel like Mala pushing hard on town penguin for absolutely no reason is the type of thing that would stand out the strongest to town penguin, yet all we get is "hopeful scum" (what?) and one quote of Mala's. This is especially weird when she is happy to call mollie scum for inflexibility of Whiskers.

I don't like that she calls Matt town because Wisdom town.

And I don't like the general trend of picking out a post and having that decide the read as opposed to making reads based on the big picture; I can see Peng opening ISOs, finding a post she thinks she can comment on, then ignoring the rest.

Mala has a history of being paranoid of me and misreading me, although usually not until later. Basing my read of her entirely on that isn't helpful to the thread in general and even to me in particular.

I don't like that I didn't have anything less nebulous to read MattP on than Wisdom's read. I remember having no problem believing IaI's fake cop claim on him in NY 161, but this isn't the same MattP as was there. I find his neighborization claim the scummiest, and I'm not entirely buying into Wisdom's neighbor/lover theory.

If I quote a post, I generally consider it representative/illustrative rather than the sum total of the person's play. Sure, I could be doing what you describe--I can't prove a negative. But I'm not, so.

I don't really want to. But I will if you insist. I don't want to make a "case" like the one you made against me for the sake of making a "case". Wasted time for everyone involved. I will do that later.

I'd like to hear your current case on me. Although since you think it's wasted time to make a case, I don't have high hopes.

As far as neighborizers go, what about having them neighborize one another? It lets them use their roles without giving everyone a QT and so maximizes Mala's role's utility. And since there is a good chance of having a scum neighborizer, it lets the town one(s) sort the scum one(s) a bit.

P-edit: Thanks ever so, Wisdom.

[Whiskers]

Or to word it differently, here is how I am thinking:

-If I don't accept there are two neighborizers, the one lying is Matt.
-If I do accept there are two neighborizers, one of them should be scum -> That one is Matt.
-If Mala flips town and her role is real, it's practically confirmed that one of them is scum since if they were both town they would make her very strong by not neighborizing anyone.
-Therefore, if Mala flips town, Matt being scum is even more likely than if she flips scum.
-The only actual case Matt is town is if Mala is scum lying about her role and both neighborizers are actually town.

Tell me where you disagree.

I actually disagree.
This is based on the fact that we claim D1. Which we wouldn't necessarily do.
It is based on the idea that, even if Mala is a QT Cop, we still wouldn't neighborize. I basically see no reason to not neighborize, since Mala's role indicates Lovers already (iirc?), and is very, very weak to begin with. It doesn't get stronger with our promise to not neighborize, it just makes

us

weaker.

But I do have to say, the association between Mala and Matt keeps getting stronger and stronger, with the claims.

[Wisdom]

I'm not entirely buying into Wisdom's neighbor/lover theory.

?
I think it's obvious that's how it is

[Wisdom]

Whiskers you're outdated (see mirari? Many people do it)

[penguin_alien]

Your theory is that all male gods are neighborizers and most of the female gods are neighborizable? But I haven't seen anything to indicate that male gods can't be neighborized.

[Wisdom]

I never said that they can't neighborize male gods, and I never said ALL male gods are.

[penguin_alien]

Then I don't understand your theory or how it's anything more than pointing out that the claimed neighborizers all have male gods for flavor.

[Wisdom]

As far as neighborizers go, what about having them neighborize one another?

They can just not neighborize at all?

[Wisdom]

Then I don't understand your theory or how it's anything more than pointing out that the claimed neighborizers all have male gods for flavor.

The neighborizing is making a "lover" pair (not the role). That's what mala knew about and that's why she can check for neighborhoods (goddess of love)

[Whiskers]

Grim's role suggests that being neighborized is bad, which means there must be a role that is hindered by it.

...whaaaaat??

No.
No, no.

It means that His is a Negative Utility Role, and that, due to Mala's claim, neighborizers are also damaging to that role's power. It means that the setup was built with layers, if everybody's claims are truthful.
And, now I consider, "I know that there are lovers," and I wonder if Mala & Matt are them. I'm not pushing this angle, but it's a suspicion I have.

[Wisdom]

There are no lovers, whiskers. Please catch up first.

[penguin_alien]

Yes, not neighborizing at all is also an option that's been discussed. But if supposedly three of, what, ballpark ten townies here have a PR of neighborizer and we just ignore it entirely, it seems likely to put us at a disadvantage. They could all be town, I suppose, given Mala's QT cop thing. But they're going to look worse regardless as the game progresses. Letting them help sort one another is an option.

I would be surprised if neighborizers = lovers given that 'lover' is a very specific role on MS.

[Wisdom]

They are not the role "lovers". It's just the way of "neighborization". That's why the virgin is immune.

[Whiskers]

Why are you even commenting on outdated things?

I can't imagine why. I'm probably not reading currently. This has happened before.

Hey Wisdom, Nachomamma is basically doing the same thing I do-- calling bullshit where he sees it.
He's going through your cases, albeit that they're old and you are no longer 100% sure about them being scum, like you were at the time, and hitting every point on the list. Providing a counter argument.

If you're reading me as "obvtown" and "conftown" for this, why aren't you reading him for it?

ALSO, the bit he says about his meta is, IMO, bound to be more valid than what you have to say about his meta. That's not a slam on you, or a prejudice toward him, but he says that those town games you make reference to are old games, and that his current town meta is different anyway. FURTHER, I disagree that having limited means to play the game does not change your playstyle. When big posts are a pain in the ass, you don't make as many big posts.

[Whiskers]

Hmm, hold on. May have been too quick.

I'll put a card on the table too.

I know there is a neighborizer in this game. That's because I'm a "Virgin", making me immune to neighborizations.

Two things that make me wonder:

1. The wiki on neighborizers says they can be of any alignment (though most commonly pro-town)
2. Given my town-status, why would I be "protected" from a neighborization through my modifier if not because the tool is in the hands of a non-town player?

Please discuss.

This claim reads pretty incredibly town.

I disagree.
His #2, particularly, seems incredibly manipulative and threatening.

Actually, I don't think we ever got an answer to that:

@GRIMGROOVE

, does your role PM say "immune to" or "protected from"?

[Whiskers]

town, why continue to push like that even when shes not getting lynched anymore

IMO, it's because he's not paying close attention, and he

can

.
The last several pages up until the claim were, iirc, shos sitting a page or so behind you and ctrl+c, ctrl+v your arguments into his posts. Continuing to attack Mala after she's claimed is fine-- you did it, after all, and it's fine if you think you have a good reason. But he continues to attack after you've made a case for MalaTown. And he doesn't refute any points on the case. He doesn't discuss it. He just says, "I only have five minutes" (not paying much attention) "vote for mala, mala is scum".

The other thing I see, is that it

could

be that he doesn't want to look like he's straight-up sheeping. He sticks on the Mala wagon for a few more posts after you do, because if he switched immediately as you did, then wouldn't it look scummy? Or at least lazy?
Anyway, it's oppourtunistic. He doesn't want to move off of mala because he knows his lynch is a very viable alternative.

[Whiskers]

Mala is good town.

BAAAHAHAHAAHAA, WHAT!?

Heheheheh. Since when?
Remember that game I posted quotes from where Mala was talking about having dreamed someone was scum?

[Mirari]

I think everyone is getting confused about the lover thing because Wisdom chose a very poor word to describe the flavor of his speculation. Couples would be better.

I don't see the utility of neighborizers using their power anymore. The gambit and under the radar potential has been lost and I am not sure having them target each other will help with reads as they would all know it is coming.

Using Mala to target the scummiest one of the bunch tonight I think is the best coordination.

Penguin, don't look at me, blame Wisdom for the incoming case. Probably won't be here until tomorrow.

[Whiskers]

You are sadly mistaking yourself for a townleader. Again. First try to hold on to a read for longer than a page and then come talk to me.

Lol.
You say this as though you're not one of the people following him/trying to stay on his good side.

That takes one slot from scum to town. Instead of 6 antitowns there are 5.

Well, I'm not exactly fucking sure what this is referring to, since you gave it no context.
But I'll assume you mean the same thing that Wis and GG are arguing about at the same time as you posting this: Why are all three Neighborizer claims town?
With regards to Mala's role:
A scum neighborizer is antitown.
A town neighborizer is antitown.
Two town neighborizers and one scum neighborizer equals three antitown roles.
Three town neighborizers and no scum neighborizers equals three antitown roles.

The end.

[Whiskers]

So well mindtricks dont work so laye at night so lets just vrute force; what eould you think if there were FOUR nei xlaims? Five? Wgeres the limit?

Would you stop fucking posting?
You're reaching mollie levels of bullshit here.

[Whiskers]

IF THERE IS A COP THAT CAN ONLY COP TOWN ON ONE PLAYER AND ALL OTHERS ARE MILLERS OR SCUM AND NOBODY KNOWS THAT IT IS FUCKIN NOT MAKING ANT KINDOFCSENSE

IM DRUNK AND IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

No, you're fucking stupid. That does not make no sense.
Mala's role has the potential to work with a town comprised solely of Neighborizers. But, it's likely it will be useless.
Like, say, A Cop, in a town of Millers. What about this is impossible? Unlikely? In a theme game?

[Whiskers]

Oh shit, right.

Unvote