NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Casso the King of Seals]

-This is fair.
-Why didn't it make sense before?
-He usually has a better eye for things like that.
-I can't say I can call it a "hard edge", but I felt something was off about him initially. I thought his later posts cleared up him not picking up on what I expected him to, so I began the process of backing off. What are you talking about?
-Usually an open ended query to a strong scumread is the beginning of a major momentum shift, which would be caused by something like a smoking gun scumread on SSK from Nati. Why is misinterpreting your intentions a scumtell?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I know I'm town but I don't think I'm likelier to pick up on crumbs as town than I am as scum.

Sorry I missed it, it didn't come up in pedit.

I don't buy it. I'd be a lot more assertive if someone was claiming something I just did as town was a scum tell. I have been in this very game. Yeah you're scum.

I'm not as assertive as you and Tammy are about my towniness. I don't think that me not picking up on crumbs is a scumtell or a town tell or why ffery was thinking that it was. It could be one of those scumtells that I don't know about, so it's not the type of thing I can reject outright. I don't think it is, though.

Like I said above, missing the crumbs almost pales compared to missing the effect the crumbs had on other players.

I flew by one, got FoSed for it, went back, over-estimated what it was about, tested that, and eventually had a working hypothesis. That was one ripple of many.

You didn't react to any of that.

I didn't react to any of it because I didn't notice it. I picked up on some of the waves crashing on shore but missed the ripples, meaning that the majority of my reactions are questions, which are the types of things I would rather keep to myself.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

I'm not sure these examples exist. Ffery and I are hitting a bit of an uncharted territory in our relationship.

[Casso the King of Seals]

She would know better than I would, though.

[geists]

I know I'm town but I don't think I'm likelier to pick up on crumbs as town than I am as scum.

Sorry I missed it, it didn't come up in pedit.

I don't buy it. I'd be a lot more assertive if someone was claiming something I just did as town was a scum tell. I have been in this very game. Yeah you're scum.

I'm not as assertive as you and Tammy are about my towniness. I don't think that me not picking up on crumbs is a scumtell or a town tell or why ffery was thinking that it was. It could be one of those scumtells that I don't know about, so it's not the type of thing I can reject outright. I don't think it is, though.

Like I said above, missing the crumbs almost pales compared to missing the effect the crumbs had on other players.

I flew by one, got FoSed for it, went back, over-estimated what it was about, tested that, and eventually had a working hypothesis. That was one ripple of many.

You didn't react to any of that.

And this is scummy because:
______________________

because he's not reading the thread in the way I'm used to seeing him read games. His choice of what to quote stripe usually either makes a ton of sense to me or points up shit that I missed and then I wonder what the hell was wrong with me.

Prior to this exchange, the stuff he's commented on for the most part didn't fit either of those categories.

[geists]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

I'm not sure these examples exist. Ffery and I are hitting a bit of an uncharted territory in our relationship.

Dr Who game maybe. I didn't get a townread on you until I voted you and you reacted because you thought I was already townreading you.

Then equinox gave me squinty eyes for doing a 180 based on your reaction.

[BROseidon]

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

...an iPad makes you worse at reading?

dafuq?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

I'm not sure these examples exist. Ffery and I are hitting a bit of an uncharted territory in our relationship.

Okay. And what are those "waves crashing on the shore" that you picked up while missing the "ripples?" Which players were you referring to?

[BROseidon]

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

Nice scumclaim. Don't think? You should KNOW if you're town.

Yeah I feel really good about this lynch now.

...oh fuck no not this again.

Why are semantics so hard.

[geists]

-This is fair.
-Why didn't it make sense before?

Because it looked kinda deflecting.

-He usually has a better eye for things like that.

Apparently usually so do I but idgi.

-I can't say I can call it a "hard edge", but I felt something was off about him initially. I thought his later posts cleared up him not picking up on what I expected him to, so I began the process of backing off. What are you talking about?

He was in making-waves mode from practically his first post. I can kinda understand why he might open that way, but it's still notable. And then he did a really significant fade. The back off speed was part of what stood out about your interaction.

-Usually an open ended query to a strong scumread is the beginning of a major momentum shift, which would be caused by something like a smoking gun scumread on SSK from Nati. Why is misinterpreting your intentions a scumtell?

Taking such a stance in the midst of my already expressed suspicions looked like appeasement.

[Casso the King of Seals]

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

...an iPad makes you worse at reading?

dafuq?

I am not as careful as I would be on a bigger screen/when I would have more time to read and play mafia. iPad takes longer to post and thus I rush a little more when I play on it.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

I'm not sure these examples exist. Ffery and I are hitting a bit of an uncharted territory in our relationship.

Okay. And what are those "waves crashing on the shore" that you picked up while missing the "ripples?" Which players were you referring to?

I won't comment, considering crumbs.

[geists]

Nacho, what is your read on Geists considering their case on you? Do you think they are town and wrong, or are they scum for it?

Town and wrong. Pushing me is one of the most reliable town tells ffery has, and this feels like a decent push.

Can you give examples where you were both town and ffery was wrong about you? I want to compare.

I'm not sure these examples exist. Ffery and I are hitting a bit of an uncharted territory in our relationship.

Okay. And what are those "waves crashing on the shore" that you picked up while missing the "ripples?" Which players were you referring to?

I need to check later, but I feel like this might be the second time that you've poked around something that shouldn't be poked too specifically.

[BROseidon]

I didn't react to any of it because I didn't notice it. I picked up on some of the waves crashing on shore but missed the ripples, meaning that the majority of my reactions are questions, which are the types of things I would rather keep to myself.

...

Why do I not believe this.

[geists]

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

...an iPad makes you worse at reading?

dafuq?

I am not as careful as I would be on a bigger screen/when I would have more time to read and play mafia. iPad takes longer to post and thus I rush a little more when I play on it.

This I can relate to. This netbook screen isn't any larger than my tablet and the screen real estate is really impacting how I take in a thread.

[geists]

Nacho, what are your reads? What would you change in Cabd's reads list?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am poking around because your case and Nacho's responses are so vague it is taking me a while to understand it and verify its accuracy. I can see the motivation for making a case vague as you explained in your Power of Labels thread. I understand that part of it is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate what you are saying but you are doing it too well. Your current case crosses the boundary into being mostly incomprehensible to me. As you said in the same thread, letting someone get away with being so vague can be dangerous. I am trying to get as close as I can so I can reverse-engineer what you are talking about without actually asking you to reveal anything that you don't want to reveal. I am sorry for crossing the line accidentally, but I am putting in quite of bit of care to not do it.

[geists]

There are a number of other aspects of my suspicions you could focus on and delve into all the detail you like.

[geists]

Unvote

I might do an actual reads list if the tiny keyboard doesn't completely piss me off.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

There are a number of other aspects of my suspicions you could focus on and delve into all the detail you like.

Okay then. Help me though whichever parts you feel comfortable with.

We don't like how he apparently missed a ton of crumbs

I'll let this slide.

We don't like how he seems to be currying favor with players rather than sorting them

Who has he tried to curry favor with and where?

We don't like the pitoli vote and especially don't like its timing. It came off like he was trying to deflect attention after we first went after him.

Why would Nacho as scum have reason to believe that this will take attention away from him as opposed to increase attention through people questioning him about the Pitoli vote?

We don't like how he tried to push the non-aggression pact on us.

He did the same to Buldermar in Hunterx so just the act of it is null. But I can agree that doing it after you suspected him doesn't feel right.

We don't like the whole tone of the exchange with Brian. The whole tone of that sounded off.

Brian came into the game with a hard edge. That's unique in the games I've played with him. You interacted with him, but didn't seem curious about the hard edge in his posting.

I agree that it is unique based on my meta of Brian. He never entered a game that way so I can understand why Nacho not questioning him on it could be suspicious.

And we found Thor's posts pretty damn close to null content.

Agree about Thor.

And finally, we don't like that when we asked him what he thought about SSK, he said that he was thinking about moving his vote there if Thor agrees. That was off for two reasons: the assumption that we were scumreading, not trying to sort SSK, and because he deferred the decision waiting for a catch up. That's not something he typically does as a hydra.

This is good too.

Maybe not, but it also meant you missed a ton of subtext around other players' reactions. That's a degree of not thinking like I'm thinking that scares me.

I have no clue what this means.

I flew by one, got FoSed for it, went back, over-estimated what it was about, tested that, and eventually had a working hypothesis. That was one ripple of many. You didn't react to any of that.

Without regards to a specific crumb, why would you expect Nacho to pick up crumbs as town as opposed to scum? I am assuming this is referring to breadcrumbs about roles unless you are using an entirely different definition of "crumbs." Whose FOS on you are referring to? Is your "working hypothesis" something you plan to reveal during the course of this game?

[Casso the King of Seals]

Domo is meh; I have liked a lot of his posting but nothing in it so far stands out and a few of his pushes seem a bit strange (see: push on me where he kind of follows your push on me but not really).

Stuffed Crust is higher considering Mactown.

Sakura/Muffin lower, Sakura mainly based on lack of doing things and Muffin because I didn't like talah posts and muffin has been pretty underwhelming so far. Brian meh leaning town based on his reaction to the gambit, F-16 town because of the gambit.

The lurkers are all in the scum slot for me, with a few maybe not push moments for good morning.

[geists]

There are a number of other aspects of my suspicions you could focus on and delve into all the detail you like.

Okay then. Help me though whichever parts you feel comfortable with.

nested quote stripes. this should be fun.

We don't like how he apparently missed a ton of crumbs

I'll let this slide.

We don't like how he seems to be currying favor with players rather than sorting them

Who has he tried to curry favor with and where?

His reaction to my question about SSK was one really strong example. The expansion of the non-aggression treaty was another. They both became sub-bullets of my list of concerns. The way he announced the BRO townread also felt that way to me. If you want more examples I'll have to go through his ISO.

We don't like the pitoli vote and especially don't like its timing. It came off like he was trying to deflect attention after we first went after him.

Why would Nacho as scum have reason to believe that this will take attention away from him as opposed to increase attention through people questioning him about the Pitoli vote?

Because pitoli was an easy target due to her level of involvement. It was a good choice if that was his intent.

We don't like how he tried to push the non-aggression pact on us.

He did the same to Buldermar in Hunterx so just the act of it is null. But I can agree that doing it after you suspected him doesn't feel right.

The expansion of scope was what bothered me.

We don't like the whole tone of the exchange with Brian. The whole tone of that sounded off.

Brian came into the game with a hard edge. That's unique in the games I've played with him. You interacted with him, but didn't seem curious about the hard edge in his posting.

I agree that it is unique based on my meta of Brian. He never entered a game that way so I can understand why Nacho not questioning him on it could be suspicious.

And we found Thor's posts pretty damn close to null content.

Agree about Thor.

And finally, we don't like that when we asked him what he thought about SSK, he said that he was thinking about moving his vote there if Thor agrees. That was off for two reasons: the assumption that we were scumreading, not trying to sort SSK, and because he deferred the decision waiting for a catch up. That's not something he typically does as a hydra.

This is good too.

Maybe not, but it also meant you missed a ton of subtext around other players' reactions. That's a degree of not thinking like I'm thinking that scares me.

I have no clue what this means.

It isn't something I want to discuss in more detail atm.

I flew by one, got FoSed for it, went back, over-estimated what it was about, tested that, and eventually had a working hypothesis. That was one ripple of many. You didn't react to any of that.

Without regards to a specific crumb, why would you expect Nacho to pick up crumbs as town as opposed to scum? I am assuming this is referring to breadcrumbs about roles unless you are using an entirely different definition of "crumbs." Whose FOS on you are referring to? Is your "working hypothesis" something you plan to reveal during the course of this game?

Because I think he's better at crumbs than I am. I learned to spot PR tells - attitudinal stuff - as I learned mafia. I've become more aware of crumbs because they're such a thing at MS, but often as not I spot PRs due to tells, and that's alignment neutral. What I do with that knowledge is alignment-revealing.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura mainly based on lack of doing things

Well sorry but i haven't been motivated to play much mafia in general, lately i dont get as much fun as i used to, and it doesn't help bundled up with my real life issues (which is why im on V/LA)

[MC Maraca]

I uh... We're not talking about my fakeclaim like it's some sort of hidden secret still, are we?