In post 324, Generic wrote: In post 322, geists wrote:You invoked me, and I'm here. I assumed you wanted back and forth, not a wall.
1. The early pages of a game make me think of a pack of dogs checking each other out, sniffing butts, etc. They hold still for a moment, and then either they bare teeth and growl, or the ears go back and they're friends. This game, for whatever reason, I feel like I'm first in line to be checked out and I'm putting up with it in fairly good humor so far. I stress "so far" because overall my mood this weekend is pretty stormy, and that's going to bleed into most if not all of my games.
2. I''m not sure if it was Nero or GiF who asked the question about how quickly I read him. I kinda think Nero. The stuff of reads comes under my personal heading of "arms race". Unless I am actually making a case for someone being town or scum, I don't get very specific about exactly how easy players are to read or specifically what I"m looking for in players I am familiar with.
3. Also, both players know me and know how accurate my reads have been historically. GiF knows me quite well, given the number of games we've played, including our hydra games. I'm not giving him anything more than I must in terms of how to go about getting townreads from me. He's already too good at it. There are a couple of recent games where I townread him when he was scum. Though in one, he was hydraing with Nacho, and the townread had a pretty high nacho component. :/
4. Anyway. Any player who asks me in the early game how easy they are to read is going to get handwaving and bullshit when I'm town. When I'm scum, I might actually make something plausible up because it's the easier, less attention-attracting path.
1. You are preaching to the choir on that one, I am mr emotional play, ask natirasha on that front. So if you feel like getting snarky with me go ahead, just be prepared for me to bring similar back if im on a dark cloud day :p
Snark is pretty much one of my signatures as a player. Nacho has some theories about how the nature of the snark correlates with my alignment, but I feel like it's actually a moving target atm, and is always pretty context-specific.
2. OK, that sort of explains the vagueness of the response. I would point out I agree at such an early stage in the game full reads on people are pointless and you can only get gut reads or leanings at best (even worse that most of the day so far has been RVS)... It was however only a question of how quickly you read them rather than what your read currently was so you could have just left it at 'fairly quickly, will tell you when I have something of note on you'.
I could have, but this isn't just about answering them (or in this exchange, just about answering you). I'm putting down some data about my approach to the game for players who don't know me that well.
3. Again this is good to know and seems from the heart, but completely irrelevant to the situation you were answering at the time. These guys who know how accurate you have been in the past have asked you how quickly you read them and you didn't just answer that but create a series of get outs that covers you in case you are put on the spot over it later.
I guarantee I'll have an emphatic read on them well before this game day ends. I hope it's also an accurate read.
4. THIS is closer to an actual explanation, and does begin to explain the comments of others pointing to my lack of play time with yourself... Why bother with 2 and 3 when 1 and 4 would have covered a starting point to our discussion?
Because that's how my thought process works. And because as I mentioned in answer to your (2) I'm not answering this only for you.
Laughably I actually am starting to think you ffery and I have similar mindsets with regards to mafia games and how we approach them/post in them... I wonder if that will translate into a better understanding of eachothers mindset as we move forwards.
Maybe. I'm a pretty un-self-aware player in terms of understanding specifically what I do that leads to particular players townreading or scumreading me. I play in body-of-work mode. I don't expect someone to read a single post and think TOWNTOWNTOWN. I make up for it with trajectory, mostly. Except where it doesn't make sense, I keep my stances pretty transparent. Though incoming stance changes sometimes aren't well telegraphed, they are usually well-formed once they hit the thread.
Answer me this as best as you can. If I had posted the following would you have raised an eyebrow:
"I think I can get a good read on Mara because I have played many games with her and generally can tell her alignment withing the first day or so... but then again I usually misread her scum games as town."
Because that above is me basically saying I can read Mara but only when she is town... and therefore basically always townread her. And that's exactly how your comment on GIF felt.
It depends on where in the thread a comment like that happens. I do tune in when I sense hedginess in an actual read. But, ability to read is something that's verifiable either via other players, or via meta dive if I think it's research-worthy. And it depends on whether Mara objects to the statement.
And that's probably the main driver to why I said what I said the way I said it. Nero knows that I've never played with him when he was scum. he knows I usually get a decent townread early unless there's something that seems off about his game. He also knows that until I figured some things out about his town game I was by default scumreading him, and I actively pursued his lynch during the first game day of our first 2 games together. If I were to express confidence that I'll easily spot scum-him I'd expect him to challenge me.
Same with my comments about GiF. If they aren't accurate or at least defensible, then I expect him to take me to task.