Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[zakk]

Fair enough.

[zakk]

Also, do you think, in the very least, that both scum wouldn't, in a situation like this, be ready and waiting for the first unwitting townie to throw a vote down on someone? Some people might say "hey, I have a life outside mafia, I can't always be online" which is true for the most part, but if you have a life and you care about it, then wouldn't you have a vested interest in making sure this game ends so you can get back to it?

Either way, here's what we know, or should know.

I'm town. I know that. You don't have to know it, but it's true, and you should think it.
toolenduso is town. Mostly because of things which happened today, but today's case against Slandaar was just icing on the cake.

That leaves scum in the last 3, which is, Garmr, Elyse, and Skelda.

Elyse is scum without a doubt in my mind. And Garmr is town nearly without a doubt in my mind as well.

Skelda is meh, and I don't have too many strong feelings one way or another (which, for the record, is great for scum to have town feel that way about them), but if it's not anyone else, it must be Skelda. Hence the process of elimination strategy strikes again.

Honestly, scum really should have killed anyone BUT Slandaar last night. They just made this game easy.

[zakk]

Seems like a weird choice of who to kill.

I was kinda expecting tool to be killed. We should probably be careful with our votes it's mylo.

Um ok?

I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.

There's a difference between these three posts.

The other two are faking confusion because that's what they hoped to cause.

Only Garmr says he thought somebody else was going to be killed.

Garmr is town. The other two are scum.

[zakk]

So,

I think Gramr is likely town, which seems contrary to popular belief.

I read his confusion on Day 1 as genuine, and scum don't usually like to seem confused. I'd like an ICE lynch today. Alright?

@Skelda: Why are you null on me?

I've felt like I've not liked some of the reasons for your hopping on wagons, but at the same time I don't think I'm convinced you are scum either. It doesn't matter, I'll be voting zakk or Slandaar in LyLo. Maybe

Garm if I get some good reasons to

, but if you are scum you've won.

1. Contradicts self in read of Garmr; seems likely town / would maybe vote him
2. Encourages people to convince him that Garmr is scum. Why don't you convince yourself?

There is literally no reason to keep Skelda or Elyse alive. They are the remaining 2 scum.

The only reason I am not voting them right now is because tool is paranoid.

[toolenduso]

Ooooh. Ouch. Sorry, you just put the first nail in your own coffin.

How? I'll tell you how.

You're trying to convince me that you're right. You're trying to introduce doubts into my head about my own theories. You're trying to win me over to your side by being self deprecating, and by being polite.

Why? Because you know I'm town. If you didn't, you wouldn't bother using phrases like "no offense but I think that's pretty bad", you would just say "You're scum. And therefore your argument is false"

Why wouldn't she write this post the exact same way if she was town who thought you were scum or town who thought you were town? I know I personally try to avoid absolute statements like "x is scum" or "x is town" and I would be willing to bet that some confirmed townies in this game have done the same. I said "Elyse is not scum" a little while ago because it was crucially important at that point for you not to have your vote on her because scum could hammer and automatically win.

I already responded to your post #1187.

You just did the exact same thing Thor did ALL FREAKING GAME. He didn't address points as they were brought up. He just flipped the table (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ and kept right on trucking. But he also called into question the authority/credibility of the person he was dealing with, almost without exception. And you're now doing the exact same thing.

Care to address THAT?

You've called into questions Elyse's authority and I don't think that makes you scum. She addressed your point by saying that she didn't consider that a scumtell.

Tool, even if it is Elyse/Garmr instead of Elyse/Skelda (which it's probably not), Elyse is still a completely safe vote for townies.

But if she isn't scum, then she's not a completely safe vote for townies. And in my eyes she has done nothing but pro-town things all of day five, which is something I can't see scum doing in this situation.

And Elyse, I'm not going to dignify any of your posts with a response, since they are clearly only self-preservatory, fashioned to make you look as town as possible and designed to make anyone who reads them think you're just a poor widdo townie who's being unfairly bullied. Which is bull.

It's LyLo/MyLo, so town has just as much incentive to self-preserve as scum does. I don't agree that they're fashioned to gain sympathy. I think they're fashioned to defend herself/give town as much evidence as possible so we don't mislynch.

Garmr and Skelda. Despite what he's doing now, zakk pushed for me to be cleared. I don't see why scum would do that in the situation we were in at the beginning of day five.

But I also think you're right, that if Garmr or Skelda claims a PR the scum will be the two VT's of the group.

Ok I could see that.

Well I'm a VT and I am definitely not scum.

The reason Elyse agrees with this, tool, is because she thinks claims can save either her or Skelda, and will screw over somebody else.

This is a false dilemma.

I think she was saying that she agreed with Garmr and Skelda being scum, not that she agreed with the two VT's being scum if we get a PR claim.

Also, do you think, in the very least, that both scum wouldn't, in a situation like this, be ready and waiting for the first unwitting townie to throw a vote down on someone? Some people might say "hey, I have a life outside mafia, I can't always be online" which is true for the most part, but if you have a life and you care about it, then wouldn't you have a vested interest in making sure this game ends so you can get back to it?

I think if scum got an opportunity right now they would hammer a lynch on town because it would be an automatic win for them.

Seems like a weird choice of who to kill.

I was kinda expecting tool to be killed. We should probably be careful with our votes it's mylo.

Um ok?

I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.

There's a difference between these three posts.

The other two are faking confusion because that's what they hoped to cause.

Only Garmr says he thought somebody else was going to be killed.

Garmr is town. The other two are scum.

How does confusion over why a certain person was nightkilled benefit scum? And how does a lack of confusion benefit town? Everybody was confused -- three people were genuinely confused and two were acting confused. ScumGarmr saying who he thought was going to be killed doesn't make him town.

[zakk]

Process of elimination.

I'm not scum. You're not scum.

It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.

[Garmr]

I get the feeling Zakk is town and tool is town from these recent pages and I know i'm town that leaves Skelda and Elyse. So it pretty much a town win in my eyes.

[toolenduso]

Garmr -- what's your role?

If everybody claims, town will be in a much better situation before we vote.

[Garmr]

Vanilla town.

[toolenduso]

Thank you. Now, zakk, why do you think Garmr is town? And Garmr, why do you think zakk is town?

[Elyse]

Process of elimination.

I'm not scum. You're not scum.

It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.

I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.

And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?

Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?

[Garmr]

I always viewed Elyse as possible scum but everyone just laughed me off so when Zakk pushed Elyse it made me feel like I wasn't crazy. Also the fact if Zakk was scum he could easily just push for me or Skelda. Through I do view Skelda as scum from eliminations so probably just me. Zakk really picked up his game day 2 and has been pretty town since. His interactions today with Elyse don't seem to come from scum. Also the fact he had thor as scum day 1 when it would of just been better to lynch ABR faster. Also I don't see why thor would bus on his buddies so early in the game when it looked he aiming to lynch both ABR and slandaar.

[N]

Vote Count 5.01

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(0)

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

zakk, Garmr, toolenduso, Elyse, Skelda

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-23 04:14:03)

[Elyse]

NOTHING ZAKK IS SAYING ABOUT ME HAS ANY MERIT.

Seriously wtf is this a joke? I've been protown all game and suddenly zakk decides to post a bs case on me and I'm scum?

Remember when I singal handedly got scumThor lynched? Or is that out the window now?

[zakk]

Thank you. Now, zakk, why do you think Garmr is town? And Garmr, why do you think zakk is town?

He feels really genuine to me. I don't really know how to explain it. It's just a gut feeling mostly.

And that usually is enough for me.

[zakk]

Process of elimination.

I'm not scum. You're not scum.

It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.

I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.

And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?

Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?

Okay if you're really really actually town, then please give me uber-strong cases on both Garmr and Skelda being scum. Go.

If this doesn't happen, then we're lynching you and Skelda.



Basically we're at a point where we can force one of the scum to vote the other if they want to even have the slight possibility of getting a win. And once that happens, the scum will have to narrow down the lynch pool even more.

I know for a fact that I'm not dying tonight. Which means I'll be around tomorrow to push the other of whoever is left of Skelda and Elyse.

[zakk]

NOTHING ZAKK IS SAYING ABOUT ME HAS ANY MERIT.

Seriously wtf is this a joke? I've been protown all game and suddenly zakk decides to post a bs case on me and I'm scum?

Remember when I singal handedly got scumThor lynched? Or is that out the window now?

You single handedly got Thor lynched? What dreamland are you living in?

And how does "being protown all game" have anything to do with your actual alignment? (It doesn't)
If you're scum, you're scum, and "being protown" is your goal.

Unfortunately, you've failed in that goal. Time to say goodnight.

[Elyse]

I'm living in the land where I POINTED OUT F16's BREADCRUMB AND GOT HIM LYNCHED BY MYSELF.

I'm not posting über strong cases on Garmr and Skelda because I don't want to and you're probably scum so I'm making a case on town in that case. I also want Skelda to claim first.

Also, are you seriously trying to twist that me acting protown makes me scum?!?!?! That's actually ridiculous. "Scum try to seem town so she's scum." That's so stupid and wrong.

Lastly

WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO MY OTHER POINTS DIRECTLY DISPROVING YOUR CASE ON ME?

Thank you. Now, zakk, why do you think Garmr is town? And Garmr, why do you think zakk is town?

He feels really genuine to me. I don't really know how to explain it. It's just a gut feeling mostly.

And that usually is enough for me.

This bullshit is fine but I have to post über strong cases on two people I'm not sure are scum?

Am I the only one seeing how retarded this is? That along with zakk trying to make Skelda and I the only lynch options with no one else's approval.

[toolenduso]

He feels really genuine to me. I don't really know how to explain it. It's just a gut feeling mostly.

And that usually is enough for me.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

[toolenduso]

Unfortunately, you've failed in that goal. Time to say goodnight.

Nobody should vote until Skelda claims.

[zakk]

Process of elimination.

I'm not scum. You're not scum.

It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.

I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.

I'm trying to convince him. There's a difference. A rather large difference.

And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?

He knows that 2 of 5 are scum. He knows who 1 of the townies are (himself). Therefore, it's 50/50 to him, he's just got to pick the right 2 of the remaining 4. Okay good, now that's out of the way.

So, out of you, Skelda, and Garmr, there are 2 scum. And it's not Garmr, even though tool thinks it is. In your eyes, the scum should be Garmr and Skelda, no questions asked.

But you're still trying to push other angles because you know if things get narrowed down, you lose.

Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?

I have the luxury of being ridiculously scummy because I'm town and everyone knows it.

I intend to play that angle as much as I can. No offense.

[zakk]

Elyse, if you're not scum, and/or if you don't want to be lynched, you're going to have to convince me of Garmr's guilt. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[Elyse]

Process of elimination.

I'm not scum. You're not scum.

It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.

So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?

You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.

I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.

I'm trying to convince him. There's a difference. A rather large difference.

How is that ANY different from what I'm doing?

And no. Convincing someone is coming up with strong arguments, not forcing your views down their throat as they only ones available.

And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?

He knows that 2 of 5 are scum. He knows who 1 of the townies are (himself). Therefore, it's 50/50 to him, he's just got to pick the right 2 of the remaining 4. Okay good, now that's out of the way.

So, out of you, Skelda, and Garmr, there are 2 scum. And it's not Garmr, even though tool thinks it is. In your eyes, the scum should be Garmr and Skelda, no questions asked.

But you're still trying to push other angles because you know if things get narrowed down, you lose.

No, the scumteam should not be Garmr and Skelda. You want to know why?

I THINK YOU ARE SCUM

Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?

I have the luxury of being ridiculously scummy because I'm town and everyone knows it.

I intend to play that angle as much as I can. No offense.

Look at you saying "no offense" just like me before. You must be scum!!!
You are most certainly NOT town and no one knows it.

Elyse, if you're not scum, and/or if you don't want to be lynched, you're going to have to convince me of Garmr's guilt. That's pretty much all there is to it.

What if I don't think he's scum? What if I think it's you/Skelda?

You are forcing me into a position that I don't want to take and it's extremely scummy.

[Elyse]

Reasons for zakk scum:
1. Votes in LyLo without everyone checking in and leaves me open to a quickhammer. Scum obviously have no problems with this.
2. Says it is scummy for me to ask for a massclaim but claimed beforehand. He just changed his position to make me look bad.
3. Refuses to respond to my posts concerning his case on me because "I'm scum and they are concerned with self-preservation."
4. Forces people into false scenarios. (You have to post uber strong cases on Garmr/Skelda or you die, Convince me Garmr is scum or you die, You have to convince me Garmr is scum or you have to lynch Elyse, etc.)
5. Comes out of his lurksack in LYLO???? Skelda is at least being consistent lurky but zakk's complete change in attitude makes me think he is just going for a quick mislynch to win the game. His analysis of "Skelda and Elyse are scum because I haven't pushed them" is terrible. He obviously thought that up in the QT and then used it as an excuse to push a mislynch on me. (Notice how he's going after me and not Skelda)
6. Contradicts himself ALL THE TIME.
7. Ignores things that happened previously in the game.

I don't know if his partner is Garmr or Skelda. I originally thought it was Garmr, but the strange stances he is taking now actually point to a Skelda scumbuddy. He wants to lynch me, not Skelda, and is asking people to convince him of Garmr's guilt as the only other lynch option. Still, he refuses to consider Skelda.

So yeah I'm only comfortable with voting zakk atm because I'm not entirely sure of his scumbuddy.

[toolenduso]

Reasons for zakk scum:
2. Says it is scummy for me to ask for a massclaim but claimed beforehand. He just changed his position to make me look bad.
5. Comes out of his lurksack in LYLO???? Skelda is at least being consistent lurky but zakk's complete change in attitude makes me think he is just going for a quick mislynch to win the game. His analysis of "Skelda and Elyse are scum because I haven't pushed them" is terrible. He obviously thought that up in the QT and then used it as an excuse to push a mislynch on me. (Notice how he's going after me and not Skelda)

These two are the ones I agree with the most. I was pretty confident in zakk being town earlier, but his actions since then have made me think twice. So now I'm left weighing which of his actions are less likely for him to do as town and which are less likely for him to do as scum.

At any rate, the reason I said Garmr and Skelda were the scumteam before is because Elyse is the most obvious town in my eyes and zakk gave me something that seemed very towny (zakk's pushing for me to be clear/obvtown today.)

Even with zakk as an option for scum, though, it still looks like Garmr is scum either way. Because Skelda also has a towny action (his "townslip," which the now-confirmed-town Slandaar pointed out earlier in the game). So to me, it looks like the team is either Garmr/zakk or Garmr/Skelda.

But since the two most active players right now seem unwilling to lynch Garmr, I'll have to do a bit more digging before I know who to go for.

I guess the obvious choice would be Skelda, since both zakk and Elyse have suggested that they would be open to a Skelda lynch, but I'd still like to look into it a bit more.

A Skelda claim would make this easier.