Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: TSQ

might as well vote the best player in the game.

[Thestatusquo]

man that's real sucky Why are you not discussing? 45!!

[Thestatusquo]

Vote: Nai

I think that not understanding is scummy.45

[Thestatusquo]

Wagoning is always a good plan day 1, IH. You know that.

[Thestatusquo]

So voting for you is a scum tell? Seems OMGUS to me.....

[Thestatusquo]

Nai: wagoning is a good day 1 strategy for pro town: y/n

[Thestatusquo]

When is wagoning ever a good stratetgy... unless you are SCUM?

Unvote Nai, VOTE: Thestatusquo

for wagoning on page One.

If youre gunna to throw a vote behind it, its not a joke.

[Thestatusquo]

Nai. You're not being wagoned cause you were scummy..

[Thestatusquo]

But because d1 wagons are the only way that town gets i

[Thestatusquo]

nformation at the begining of the game. also

fos:MaGo

[Thestatusquo]

Just a warning: He is now 2 from lynch. claim now please

[Thestatusquo]

Holy SHIT.

Unvote, Vote: massive_goonery; major FoS: Panzerjager

Are you kidding me? Voting this fast by Page 2? Nai's questions make sense, and I myself wonder about their answers.

I voted goonery over Panzer because Panzer actually has substantial reasoning, whereas goonery just seemed to be like "Tra-la-la-la-la, there's room for me to bandwagon."

PBuG speaks major truthery. I glork many pants......

[Thestatusquo]

Prodding lurkrs when theres real discusion is scummy

[Thestatusquo]

It doesn't matter how early it is. Claim = good. FOOL!!

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah? Let's look at this for a minute. I claim. Town sees I'm town. They go after someone else, and get ANOTHER claim. That's two claims in one day, which helps the mafia either find a power role (if we don't find one of them first), or, either way, narrow down the list to FINDING a power role.

No, a claim is not always good. Especially if the reason for the claim/bandwagon is complete and utter crap, as is the case here.

That logic holds true for every single day 1 claim....

[Thestatusquo]

Nai, that's not even the only reason for a day one wagon

[Thestatusquo]

Like we get information about who was on and off of it..

[Thestatusquo]

When we analyze voting patters later on. You know that

[Thestatusquo]

Plus, there have been several noteworthy reactions.

[Thestatusquo]

That have occured already with/about this wagon. rar

[Thestatusquo]

Edit by way of quintuple post, TSQ?

No. I wish

And yes, I know the reasons for a bandwagon. But I think you get a lot less information out of a bandwagon for a stupid reason (since intelligent posters wouldn't want to be part of that) than you would an intelligent reason.

First this assumes we have intelligent scum[/quote]

[Thestatusquo]

Second it ignores what I say about what HAS occurred..

[Thestatusquo]

Read my posts 62 and 63 more carefully. Then youll see.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm like 86.3234% sure that goonery is scum. Yeah....

[Thestatusquo]

Nothing, pbug. I am not wagoning for that reason. duh.

[Thestatusquo]

I think claims on Day 1 are far more likely to help scum than to expose them. When TSQ said that early claims were good I actually thought he must be joking, though with my record of detecting wit from that quarter, he was probably dead serious this time.

I'm keeping my original random vote on massive_goonery, for the reasons given by PBug in Post 46. Also, in most games I've played the high profile players over the first few pages - equivalent to TSQ and Nai in this game - have turned out to be town.

TSQ was fishing for reactions. MG is scum.

Vote: MassG

[Thestatusquo]

I think it is pretty obvious that I am post restricted.

[Thestatusquo]

45 non quote non space characters per post. I am allowe

[Thestatusquo]

d 10 over/under per game. That means that I can miss my q

[Thestatusquo]

uota in 10 posts by one character each, or 1 post of 10 ch

[Thestatusquo]

aracters off. I am under threat of modkill. Bravo....

[Thestatusquo]

The setting of a normal game should be Mafia related (or, on occasion, Werewolf related). Even flavor text should not be based on any book, movie, song, time period, etc.

This game violates that clause.

Other (new or otherwise) roles can be included. However, there should be no more than 1-2 of these, and they should be based around the usual game mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Voting.

This seems to allow PR

[Thestatusquo]

Yes, it does. Specifically:

Other (new or otherwise) roles can be included.

Also

and they should be based around the usual game mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Voting.

continued........

[Thestatusquo]

You have no clue what my role is based around.

Nice bait

[Thestatusquo]

But you should really stop fishing. I love fucking you

[Thestatusquo]

Yes, and let me tell you, spammityspamspam.......45

[Thestatusquo]

That was 47 Shea. Not Counting Spaces.

Seriously, he does not have a post restriction, or else he's broken it about 20 times, and is dicking around.

Read my posts 90 and 91 skimmah. I'm not lying, man....

[Thestatusquo]

I believe it is my pleasure to tell you: granted, sir..

[Thestatusquo]

*points and laughs for a good 10 seconds*

Can we lynch massive_goonery now, plzkthx?

:Thisisreallyquitethegoodpostingmanmanmanman:

[Thestatusquo]

...

Vote:Elias the thief

Eh, that last post rubbed me the wrong way. You defend him from a "hasty" lynch, but still support a claim?

BTW, I still don't like TSQ's "post restriction"

This post makes no sense whatsoever. Why vote elias??

[Thestatusquo]

I have limited access as well, friends. Laptop broke.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm still up for a MG lynch. I am not in favor of PG lynch.

[Thestatusquo]

I really wish that I could make a post like that one....

[Thestatusquo]

I think ur stating the obvious, without much insight.

[Thestatusquo]

I have been doing that, with multiple posting strings

[Thestatusquo]

Does anyone else have comments about R's last post???

[Thestatusquo]

If MG is scum, then jingalow may be tomorows lynch....

[Thestatusquo]

.............................................

[Thestatusquo]

I would if I had a double vote, homie. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

[Thestatusquo]

Vote: fircoal

[Thestatusquo]

So yeah. This is as good a time as any to let you guys know I was faking my post restriction. I did it for a bit of a challenge day 1. It worked so well, I almost wish I was scum.

[Thestatusquo]

CoG...How does that make me scum?

[Thestatusquo]

I already answered that. Second, you didn't answer my question.

How is lying about a post restriction a scum tell. Especially since I claimed it unforced.

[Thestatusquo]

Pro town players never lie?

[Thestatusquo]

That argument is non unique. If scum get caught in a lie, they'll get lynched. Give me a reason town wouldn't lie that does not preclude scum from lying, please.

[Thestatusquo]

Elias,

You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.

[Thestatusquo]

Lynch all liars is a reaaaally dumb strategy. There has never been a time playing when you have not felt the need to lie as pro town?

Second: I ALREADY ADDRESSED THIS. The point is non unique. If what you're saying is true, then scum would not do what I did either, which makes it a nul tell. Unless someone can give a UNIQUE reason for why scum would do what I did, but town would not, votes should not be on me.

I'll forgive your strict adherance to LAL because you ARE a noob, mistah townsperson, but most players who know ANYTHING about mafia know that pro town players have to lie, some of the time.

Or some of the time they make up little challenges for themselves and see how long they can keep up the fascade; that was me.

I mean, I won't be getting lynched today whether you vote me or not, so I would advise you put votes somewhere that they are useful.

[Thestatusquo]

That is my whole point, CoG.

Why is it that when someone does SOMETHING not necessarily within the confines of "normal" mafia play, it is immediately a scum tell?

I'll answer that for you. It isn't. A scum tell is derived by a certain person being more likely to do something as scum than town. Since you've admitted that you can't see a scum reason for me to do what I did, then voting me for it is, quite literally, retarded.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think using a mod given false claim is exactly lying, or for that matter, particularly damning here. My argument is not that town players lie, and scum do not. It's that ALL players lie.

Also, to address something else:

As for tsq - seems like he's demanding that people provide reasons why he would stage a post-restriction stunt as scum but not as town, while himself failing to offer any reason why he would do it as town but not as scum. Like the onus is all on us, and I don't see why that should be. He was the one who, at the very least, has wasted our time and needlessly cluttered the thread with strings of tiny posts, for no better reason than his own amusement. Once he has claimed that he would lie to us over a prolonged period, and with no possible benefit to us, why would we believe anything he says again? How do we know that he's not lying now? It's not hard to think of reasons why he could have been post restricted yesterday but not today.

1) You know nothing about arguments. The onus

IS

on you, because you're the one making the positive assertion. That's how arguments work, the person making a positive claim has the burden of PROOVING it.

Since you are making the positive claim "TSQ is scum." YOU are the one that needs to provide reasons why that is true. If you can't, then the assertion falls.

THIS IS WIDELY ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE. Just look at wikipedia, ask anyone who does debate. Anything. It is logically impossible to prove a negative.

2) This is also true in the context of a mafia game. You have to prove why I am scum, if you do not, then there is no reason to vote me. Asking people to prove they're NOT scum is nonsensical, as if you asked all of us right now, we'd all be able to do basically nothing, and it would be wifom anyway, because we all could have done those things for the purpose of looking town.

3) There are a lot of things which have no benefit to the town, and yet are not scummy. A good example is recently I played (and won) a noobie without reading my role PM. This was obvious detrimental to the town, in theory, but you certainly can't tell alignment from it. This is the same way. Unless there is a reason scum would do what I did, there is really no reason to vote for it.

4) Your understanding is wrong. I made the PR completely up, I was not PRed yesterday at all.

These are not the droids I'm looking for? O RLY? Thanks for the advice, but I'll leave my vote where it is.

The statement was a half claim, not arrogance. But that seems lost on you. I'm sorry if my breadcrumbs go right over your head.

[Thestatusquo]

1) You know nothing about arguments. The onus IS on you, because you're the one making the positive assertion. That's how arguments work, the person making a positive claim has the burden of PROOVING it.

Since you are making the positive claim "TSQ is scum." YOU are the one that needs to provide reasons why that is true. If you can't, then the assertion falls.

THIS IS WIDELY ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE. Just look at wikipedia, ask anyone who does debate. Anything. It is logically impossible to prove a negative.

This sounds like a prerehearsed argument tsq had prepared in readiness for people claiming he was scum, and he didn't like to have it go to waste. I didn't claim anything of the sort. If anybody's making positive claims here, it's tsq, who is claiming "TSQ is innocent despite having lied to everybody all through Day 1". (If you're

not

claiming this, please clarify.) So, you are the one who needs to provide reasons why that is true. According to your own logic.

No, you're dumb. It's not a prerehersed argument, it's TRUTH. Like 3 people have said that I am scum for the lying (that's what LAL MEANS, tard.)

Second. I do not have to make any positive claims to my innocense. No one does. Thats not how claims work. Unless there is a reason for someone to do so, no one ever HAS to defend the statement you made. The only reason one would have to make the claim "TSQ is innocent." is if it were being contested.

Third: Even if that were true: I HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS. I have already shown, quite conclusively I might add, that I lie as town, and therefore lying is not a scumtell for me. I have also argued that there is no logical reason why scum would do what I did, which is somehting you have ignored.

Your understanding is wrong. I made the PR completely up, I was not PRed yesterday at all.

No, your understanding is wrong. I know that's what you're

claiming

happened. My point was, why should we believe you? When a player has openly admitted to lying throughout Day 1, don't you think their subsequent credibility is damaged? Once you're established as a liar, it's just as likely that you were telling the truth yesterday and lying today (as opposed to the other way round). And for all we know, you'll pop up tomorrow and say that both yesterday's story and today's story were lies, and that the challenge you set yourself for Day 2 was to see if you could fool us two days running.

Um...Are you really saying that you think that I am lying and I really have a PR? Because I think if so then it's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Furthermore, no one should ever have credability in a mafia game. mafia is a game of deception.

[Thestatusquo]

No...He FOS;s him.

[Thestatusquo]

No, actually. Read the posts you quote. He makes three points AGAINST massive in that post.

[Thestatusquo]

Which is a point I do not understand the merits of arguing...Wouldn't it be better to be with MG than against him, at this point? Someone explain this argument to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, saying someone is connected with a protown player is, to me, a non argument.

[Thestatusquo]

[quote[Your behavior is not “no benefit to the town.” It is detrimental to the town. The two are not the same, even though you would like them to be. As has been pointed out multiple places, it is quite possible that your behavior is not as a result of you being scum...but that is not the same as your behavior not being scummy.[/quote]

Explain to me how it's detrimental to the town. No one has been able to do that. Until you do, it's 'no benefit to the town' you can't make assertions with outsaying why they're true.

If you want a playground where you can experiment with only typing with your left hand, or false-claiming to be a racoon, or posting only in code, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Um, yeah. You can go fuck yourself. I will play however I damn feel like it, and you can just deal with it. If I do it both as town and scum, then it would be really dumb of you to lynch me for it, so dealing with it is pretty much your only option. Don't you tell me to leave a site that I've been playing on for about 234234x as long as you.

[Thestatusquo]

Panzer is a bad lynch in my mind.

[Thestatusquo]

I love you big brother.

[Thestatusquo]

I would argue that PBuG has connected himself to me strongly as well.

[Thestatusquo]

I say, if you have something to say, say it. If not keep the Short stories to a few sentences.

Sounds like someones lazy. Exactly the kind of player I hate to play with. Read the posts. If you don't want to read what people have to say, then you should not be playing forum mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

Damn. We lost a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

Elias, that's a scum answer. Can we lynch captain plz?

[Thestatusquo]

vote: elias

Then re-read what's there, tell us what you think about it, and take action rather than bitching about it.

[Thestatusquo]

Nice OMGUS. I ask you for content, and you go into a stupid rant about how I haven't.

[Thestatusquo]

Elias. Please explain how I was not involved in d1. I went to the lengths of making 4-5 posts in a row to get my opinions out. You're not making any sense.

[Thestatusquo]

Because captain came in, acted like an ass, not necessarily a scummy ass, but an ass none the less, and has not posted since then. TBH I looks like replacing him would be a better plan than voting him.

[Thestatusquo]

Uh, well there has been quite a bit of things that were lost in the crash, but towards the premise of the FOS, I would say several things

1) Faking the PR led to discussion, which was valuable to the town. I would say the people who pushed for a lynch because "PR's are not in normal games." probably has a decent chance to be scum, as I do not see town reaction to something as "lynch it without any more discussion plz." That's one major contribution I have had.

2) I led the charge on captain while he was still posting. The fact that he has stopped posting makes it no longer necessary to pursue pressure on him. I will wait for his replacement, and then continue from there.

3) Re: Elias. I voted him because what he did is a fairly common scum move. It goes like this:
1) You notice there is no discussion in the game
2) You call for people to discuss, without adding anything yourself
3) You seem to be persuing a protown course of action, but are not actually helping the town at all yourself. This is why "Wow...Nothing going on here...Can you guys discuss plz" posts will always be looked at carefully in my eyes.

4) I helped push the nai wagon which led to the start of our first day 1 discussion. Basically, I forced people to take sides on something for the first time this game

5) I am not going to mention every opinion I clearly demonstrated d1, go back and read my posts. If you honestly think I wasn't asking questions, forcing reactions, and sharing opinions, then you really need new glasses.

[Thestatusquo]

Why fircoal?

[Thestatusquo]

Well for one, theres the fact that you bite the logic I explained in my post. Second theres the fact that you then overdefensively OMGUS'd me afterwords.

[Thestatusquo]

*_*_*_* Vote Count - 6:13:58 AM *_*_*_*

"A ruffled mind makes a restless pillow." ~ Charlotte Bronte

PBuG -2- (Cpt_Fantastic, Jingolaw)
Panzerjager -2- (Fircoal, PBuG)
Cpt_Fantastic -1- (Panzerjager, CoG888)
Elias_The_Thief -1- (Thestatusquo)
Not voting -3- (Elias_the_thief, Sefer)

With 9 alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

I ignored your posts because they were WRONG. Anyone who wants to go back and re-read day 1 will tell you that I contributed as much as anyone.

[Thestatusquo]

Elias...Read my posts 2-17...

[Thestatusquo]

It's called contribution, and sharing my opinions. The exact things you said I wasn;t doing. Remember? I just referenced those posts because they dealt specifically with the nai wagon, which was the point you attacked me on, but if you read back, you will notice that almost every single post I make is saying something relevant about the game. Just because a post is short, does not mean it lacks content.

[Thestatusquo]

The attack was almost pure OMGUS, and also empirically denied. I don;t know why I had to show why it was wrong, when it was pretty much self defeating.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not claiming to this rubbish, other that to restate my earlier half claim that I will not be lynched today. Your votes are better placed elsewhere.

I'm going to

unvote, vote: Panzerjager

His vote for me seems especially odd when coupled with his many statements of "I find TSQ to be town" and his further statements that I had "Defended myself well against elias.

Nice flip flop, homie.

[Thestatusquo]

You can read whatever you want into my role, but you're just wasting a lynch right now.

[Thestatusquo]

See...PBuG...Telling the town "You're wasting a lynch" is a scumtell when the person is just trying to appeal to their emotions. But my "wasting a lynch" is a claim. Good job not being able to read into what people say.

[Thestatusquo]

I'd rather not, PBuG. See, the distinction is that I believe how town reacts to a half claim is fundamentally different from how scum reacts to a half claim. Town will be cautious, and wait till they have the full story before voting, where as scum will not want the claim to be completed, as it might derail their misslynch. Therefore, there is a very good reason why I half claimed.

PBuG is pretty obviously scum, guys. Lets lynch him tommorow. Anyhoo: Full claim time: I am immune to the first killing action done to me. I was hoping to use this on a wasted scum nk, but it was a lynch instead, because this town is fairly retarded. I would say I will probably be killed tonight, because I am pretty much confirmed town at this point. The scum, in my mind, are pretty obviously panzer, and PBuG.

[Thestatusquo]

Panzer, you could check my reasoning when I voted you. I was pretty explicit.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree with the above post.

PBuGs hammer seemed like he was rushing to avoid my actual claiming, which was the exact reason I only partially claimed. Reactions like that are priceless.

Moving on:

Why didn't the scum kill TSQ, maybe he is one of those roles that is town but then becomes scum, i think it's called a judah, but thatisn't very normal game. I'm very interested to why TSQ didn't die last night. CoG, could you explain any of this to me?

This is CLASSIC scum didnt kill confirmed town last night so he must be scum wifom logic. It is mostly used by scum players to achieve a misslynch after outing a protown role. This post is the most scummy thing I've seen from any player yet.

[Thestatusquo]

CPT just rose on my list of suspicions a little with that last post.

[Thestatusquo]

You did the classic: "I have opinions, I promise but I am going to hang back and not do anything until there is more evidence, even though evidence is a nebulous term in mafia that means nothing anyway, and what I actually mean is I am waiting for someone else to post a case so I can latch onto it and not actually have to go out on a limb."

[Thestatusquo]

I am not saying that town would never hammer in that situation. I am saying that in that situation a pro town player would at least think about it, and not just hammer the first chance they get.

[Thestatusquo]

I like how cog is playing with his head.

[Thestatusquo]

I meant to add that it strikes me as very pro town.

[Thestatusquo]

*_*_*_* Vote Count - 6:18:01 AM *_*_*_*

"Sleeping is no mean art: for its sake one must stay awake all day." ~Friedrich Nietzsche

PBuG -4- (Panzerjager, Jingolaw, Elias_The_Thief, Capt_Fantastic)

Panzerjager -1- (PBuG)
Not voting -3- ( CoG888, Fircoal, Thestatusquo)

With 8 alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

I find it way harder to believe that there would be no vanilla in a game, jingalo, and I find that comment on your part to be scummy as hell.

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of find it hard to believe that there would be no vanillas in the game. That doesn't make me believe it, or disbelieve it. It does make me want to take a close look at Jingalo, as he seems to have forgotten this is a normal game (or forgotten it on purpose.)

I'm still undecided on the claim itself. I think I'm leaning towards believing it.

[Thestatusquo]

Nice appeal to emotion.

[Thestatusquo]

TBH I do not like the cog-pbug-jingalo interraction at all. I think there is at least 1 scum in that group, and I find it very likely that there's 2.

[Thestatusquo]

PBuG.

[Thestatusquo]

I see no reason for jingalow to claim at this point in time.

[Thestatusquo]

I am happy with a PBuG lynch. I think everyone has already taken clear sides on it, and I think that his scummy actions sort of nulify the claim.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah, just reread the body of the claim, and I am very happy with a PBuG lynch.

VOTE: PBUG

He's at -1 folks.

[Thestatusquo]

I highly doubt we have 4. That seems like an awful lot. I would imaging 3 is a more likely number.

[Thestatusquo]

YAY!