Mini 404: Diablo Mafia (Game Over)

[Mr Stoofer]

HI, I'm replacing Cheesfan. I know nothing about the theme: I'm just replacing as a favour to Zinadaras.

I've done a read through and the following things piqued my interest:

1. I like STD's point about DragonsofSummer's post 105 (A FOS on TheJiveMachineScum) - it did seem insincere; and it only made it worse when he voted for TJMscum when STD called him out on it (post 133).
   
   
2. TSQ pointed out how DoS' post 105 was weird since DoS was only random voting at the time - a good point.
   
   
3. But the DoS stayed with TJM the whole day, which I can't see him doing if he were TJM's scumbuddy.
   
   
4. I doubt that chaotic_diabalo is scum - I can't see TJM being 3rd on his wagon if he was his a scumbuddy. He was also a prime mover on TJM's bandwagon (starting post 171). TJM was not under enough pressure at the time to warrant bussing - I think chatoic_diablo was being genuine.
   
   
5. In posts 186-187, livingod tries to move pressure onto chaotic_diabolo, and therefore away from TJM. Interesting... And he defends TJM in post 220 as well...
   
   
6. STD was onto TJM early (he provoked post 171) and voted him early.
   
   
7. Mr. Flay was the next to vote TJM; but he is clever enought to see that TJM was a likely lynch by this point and wouldn't have wanted to miss the wagon if if he was scum with TJM.
   
   
8. If I'm right so far, then Thestatusquo is town - see his post 197.
   
   
9. Skruffs' post 221 pinged my scumdar - ostensibly defending C_D while criticising him. He doesn't mention the main badwagon (TheJiveMachine) at all! He then corrects himself saying that when he said "DoS you come in second place as scummy , to me" he meant TJM. Saying that TJM-scum is the second scummiest after C_D is exactly what I would expect TJM's buddy to do.
   
   
10. The fact that DoS and TJM were the two bandwagons as deadline approached suggests that they are not scumbuddies. But its possible.
    
    
11. Skruffs was on DoS bandwagon when DoS and TJM claimed, and was pushing for a DoS lynch - despite earlier saying that TJM was his number 2 choice after C_D (post 221). Was he being honest in post 221? It pinged my scumdar at the time and the fact that he seemed to abandon his TJM suspicions makes me even more suspicious.
    
    
12. Has remussaidow said anything of substance? I don't think so.
    
    
13. When I read Skruffs response to the claims (posts 347, 348, 356, 363) I think that Skrufs is scum with TJM. First, he seems much more willing to believe TJM than DoS - suggesting that DoS' claim is a safe claim but TJM's must be real. He argues in 363 that it it is plausible when (from what other people say) it plainly is not. Then bizarrely he appears to say in post 365 (if I have understood it correctly) that he would rather lynch TJM. Skruffs finally hammers TJM.

Following that analysis, you won't be surprised to see me

Vote: Skruffs

.

[Mr Stoofer]

EBWOP: Not sure that "analysis" was the right word in the last sentence. Replace with "collection of musings".

[Mr Stoofer]

MOD

: Please can you prod/hurt Aelyn?

[Mr Stoofer]

I am not sure why LG would so strongly defend a scum buddy

Mr. Flay said (rightly) that TJM defended livinggod, not the other way round. Or are you referring to something else.

[Mr Stoofer]

OK. A fair point, though I didn't detect a great amount of skill in TJM's play on my read through.

Anyway, Skruffs is today's lynch.

[Mr Stoofer]

First, although I know who Shea is, please can we stick to mafiascum usernames. It's confusing and exclusionary to use AIM names.

Secondly, Skruffs's posts are totally incomprehensible to me now since I don't know which bits were errors and which bits were correct; so if you have anything to say to me please repost it in clearer language.

Thirdly, I see the benefit of a livingod wagon. But if anyone wants me to switch to TSQ, they are going to have to go into more detail (like a PBPA). The fact that my first and second choices both want to lynch TSQ gives me warm feelings towards him.

[Mr Stoofer]

@Thestatusquo

: I think remussaidow's question is "why did you vote for Skruffs.

To which I can supply the answer: because he is the most likely candidate to be scum at this point in time.

[Mr Stoofer]

In posts 186-187, livingod tries to move pressure onto chaotic_diabolo, and therefore away from TJM. Interesting... And he defends TJM in post 220 as well...

livingod

: 4 (Mr. Flay, chaotic_diablo, DragonsofSummer, Cogito Ergo Sum)

In those circumstances I'm not going to waste any more breath pushing for Skruffs to be lynched today; but I will want him dead tomorrow whether livingod is scum or not.

I want to wait for Aelyn's replacement to post their thoughts in detail first.

In the meantime, I call hammah on livingod.

[Mr Stoofer]

Why does TSQ get a free pass in MR. Stoofer's eyes for pushing so extremely hard for a DOS lynch, whereas I get the evil eye for agreeing?

The main reason why I think TSQ is town is that he thinks you are scum and wants you dead.

In short, this is why I think that Mr. Stoofer and TSQ are the remaining scum.

Lol.

I guess you can have hammah.

Vote: Livinggod

. He is scum. He must die.

Skruffs is scum too.

QFT x 10

Vote: livingod

======[]

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Skruffs

FTW!

[Mr Stoofer]

I'm

Frozenstein

, townie. Which is why my claim doesn't matter.
I'm a yeti by a frozen lake. Unfortunately my thick shaggy fur is not going to protect me from that throne. ;.;

Can't find this guy on Wikipedia. Happy with my vote.

[Mr Stoofer]

OK, fair enough. I still think you are scum regardless of your claim.

Please die thx.

[Mr Stoofer]

BTW - Lynch All Liars.

Frozenstein

has a wikipedia entry.

Lol.

Did you see how somebody marked it as a candidate for speedy deletion within 4 minutes of you creating that page?

[Mr Stoofer]

OK, that's all very amusing chaps. Now, no more pissing about. Let's lynch Skruffs.

[Mr Stoofer]

I am really surprised about Skruffs - I was convinced he was scum.

I gave reasons for thinking he was scum in my first post in this game, but the decisive thing for me was TSQ's post 389, which looked to me like a cop with a guilty result (it was a straight vote, first post of the day, no reasoning). TSQ did exactly the same thing at the start of the next day (post 445) which made me certain he was a cop with a guilty on Skruffs.

Anyway, with Skruffs coming up town, I took a look at TSQ's posts and I didn't like what I saw (Scum highlighted in red for convenience):

After

TheJiveMachine

claimed, Thestatusquo defended him stoutly while pressuring DargonsofSummer (see posts 340, 342, 344, 346). All those posts should be read in full but some highlights include:

I want a roleclaim from DOS. I don't want to let him off the hook so easily. [Referring to

TheJiveMachine

I also see no reason why scum would claim something so...Rediculous when I am sure that any competant mod would give people good fake claims.

My thoughts on

TJM

: I think he may be our lynch for today, but I certainly wouldn't be too happy with it. I've been in many theme games, and every single one of them have included safe claims for the scum players. Therefore, I see no reason at all why
scum would not use those claims. I mean, you can say wifom, but I would argue it's not, because the benefits scum could get from claiming neutral are WAY outweighed by the fact that everyone wants to lynch the guy who "Is at best neutral"

That last quote is the sort of thing I would expect scum to say about his scumbuddy.


After DragonsofSummer gave more detail about his claim:

I am going to believe you for now, on the basis that you will eventually be proven wrong if you are lying.

unvote, vote

TJM

I don't find this convincing, especially since a couple of posts later we have this:

Unvote

the problem is that I have two people who I feel have played very scummy games, and two claims which I kinda believe. I am going to have to think this over.

Subsequent posts:

Thing is that I kinda want to leave them both [DragonsofSummer and

TheJiveMachine

] till tommorow, because I would give 50-50 odds on each being town right now.

CES, my point is that I think [DragonsofSummer and

TheJiveMachine

] might both be town, so I want to get back to scum hunting for today.

Interestingly, he also made a half-hearted defence of

livingod

the next day:

Like, I am not sure why

LG

would so strongly defend a scum buddy, however. Does he have any other games that anyone knows of so I can check if he's taken that strategy before?

I think that is enough to deserve a

vote: Thestatusquo

[Mr Stoofer]

TSQ: I'm not voting you because I wrongly thought you were the cop. I just mentioned that to explain my earlier confidence that Skruffs was scum.

My reasons for voting you start with the paragraph beginning: "Anyway, with Skruffs coming up town, I took a look at TSQ's posts..."

[Mr Stoofer]

Zindaras

: Can you prod some people please. I note that StallingChamp seems to be following in his predecessor's footsteps and not bothering to post.

[Mr Stoofer]

Stoofs, I just got you on deliberately weak argument. I'm not sure if that makes you scum or not.

No I didn't. As alko has already said:

As Stoofer already mentioned, he's not voting you because he misinterpreted you as the cop, but because when he realized you weren't the cop and read over your posts, he found you incredibly scummy.

hiya. People get your votes of TJM, theres a better case on DoS:

This is the only instance I can find of anything close to a defense of TJM, if I'm wrong someone find it for me.

Go back and read my post and follow the links I gave.

[Mr Stoofer]

And stoofer continues to fall for the deliberately weak argument. I KNOW thats not why you're voting me. That isn't the point the fact that you ignored the valid points I made, and went after the one that I made up, that was weak, and threw in there just to see if it got attacked is the point. Now, you've continues to attack me on that one point, ignoring not only the other valid points I made, but also my explanation of what the point I made that you are attacking meant in relation to everything else.

I thought I had responded to the points which did not amount just to saying I was wrong. I don't like get into arguments which just go "You are wrong" / "No I'm not" / "Yes you are"...

If you would repeat your "valid points", please, I will respond to them individually.

[Mr Stoofer]

Thestatusquo's First Point

:

1) I didn't defend TJM. I posted a case against DoS, because I thought he was clearly scum. Doesn't it make sense that I would be more inclined to believe my own research on DoS?

a) The fact that my 'defense of TJM' was actually just me thinking the case was stronger on someone else. STD has already posted to that effect as well.

I don't agree with this interpretation of your posts. I set out my interpretation in detail, with quotations, in my post 540. At the time, TheJiveMachinescum and DragonsofSummer were both in the firing line. Your posts consistently* tried to push the bandwagon towards DragonsofSummer and away from TheJiveMachine.

[* It wasn't quite consistent; your post 354 went the other way, but you immediately retracted.]

You will notice about this, also, that the posts you quote of mine do not actually showcase me defending TJM, but instead:

1) Saying my opinion on a claim
2) VOTING HIM(WTF!)
3) Saying I don't like either of our current lynch candidates.

I do not see how any of this could be even remotely seen as defending someone.

As to these 3 points:

1) My point is that your opinion was to lynch DoS and not TJM-scum
2) I noted that in my post 540 - I also noted how you immediately retracted
3) That's not a fair reflection, but in any event TJM's claim was lynchworthy, so saying you didn't want to lynch him after his claim is scummy.

Thestatusquo's Second Point

:

2) Pointing out a flaw in an argument against someone is not defending that person, it is only pointing out a flawed argument. Not only that, you AGREED with my analysis in your VERY NEXT post. So if you're using that as offense, you might as well vote yourself.

And point b) Where you quote a post I made in reference to livingod's claim, and cite it as evidence that I was defending him, ignoring the fact THAT YOU AGREED WITH THAT POST after it was made. I expect to see you FOSing yourself sometime soon.

First, this is evidence, nothing more. I didn't suggest it was conclusive. Secondly, I did

not

agree with you: my next post said that I thought you were mistaken.

[Mr Stoofer]

Oh I've finally understood what you have been going on about! I

didn't

agree with the post you said I agreed with: but I

did

say that say a

later

post (which was a correction of your earlier post) was a "fair point".

As it turns out, your point was wrong - livingod was scum after all.

And so this is evidence against you. Making fair points in defence of scum is still evidence of scumminess. It doesn't prove it scumminess; and it's not as bad as making bum points in defence of scum; and I didn't make much of a feature of the point in my post 540 anyway.

[Mr Stoofer]

Meh. That's not a key reason why I'm voting you anyway.

[Mr Stoofer]

a fair point != a scum tell

means the same as

making fair points is never a scum tell

.

!=

means "is not equal to"

[Mr Stoofer]

:arrow: I'll be away until Wednesday 12th April. I'll try to get online but I may not be able to.

[Mr Stoofer]

One of (or the) remaining scum's name is Andarial or something very similar to that (as I can't spell it right), and her particular kill method is a poison attack in the game. I'll have to look at the morning scenes again, but I think that two nights ago, Duriel made the Kill, and night one Andarial did. I don't know how helpful this information will be to the town, but I figured I'd share it.

How do you know that?

Is it from the Mod's deathscenes - in which case could you spell out how you worked this out?

Or is it from your role - in which case I don't think you can post this without giving a full claim?

[Mr Stoofer]

This is faulty logic for two reasons.

First, I disagree with the whole DWA concept. It is human nature - not scummy - to respond to questions to which you know the answer; and not to respond when you don't know the answer.

Secondly, it doesn't apply here anyway, because the the reason that I didn't respond to your other 2 points was because they were (as I understood them) mere contradictions of my earlier point. My only response could have been "No you are wrong and I was right". Indeed, my post 567, in which I did respond to the other point, is just a long winded way of saying "No you are wrong and I was right". I think such things are pointless which is why I didn't bother first time round.

Happy with my vote. Particularly so because (to answer al_ko's question) I can't at the moment see who else would be scum if not TSQ.

[Mr Stoofer]

(to answer al_ko's question) I can't at the moment see who else would be scum if not TSQ.

[Mr Stoofer]

Making Your Mind up

by Bucks Fizz

Winner, Eurovision Song Contest 1981
3 weeks at #1 in the UK chart, April 1981

You gotta speed it up, and then you gotta slow it down
Coz if you believe that our love can hit the top
You gotta play around
But soon you will find that there comes a time
For making your mind up

You gotta turn it on, and then you gotta put it out
You gotta be sure that it's something everybody's
Gonna talk about
Before you decide that the times arrived
For making your mind up

Don't let your indecision, take you from behind
Trust your inner vision, don't let others change your mind

And then you really gotta burn it up
And make another fly by night
Get a run for your money and take a chance
And it'll turn out right
And when you can see how it's gotta be
You're making your mind up

And try to look as if you don't care less
But if you want to see some more
Bending the rules of the game
Will let you find the one you're looking for
And then you can show that you think you know
You're making your mind up

Don't let your indecision, take you from behind
Trust your inner vision, don't let others change your mind

And now you really gotta speed it up, and then you gotta slow it down
Coz if you believe that our love can hit the top
You gotta play around
But soon you will find that there comes a time
For making your mind up

And now you really gotta speed it up, and then you gotta slow it down
Coz if you believe that our love can hit the top
You gotta play around
But soon you will find that there comes a time
For making your mind up

For making your mind up
For making your mind up
For making your mind up

[Mr Stoofer]

Zindy

, please could you prod STD and remussaidow in th arse with sharp sticks.

[Mr Stoofer]

Things that we lost that I can remember:

• TSQ asking me what I thought of DragonsofSummer and remussaidow.
  
• I said that I didn't think DoS was scum because of the way day 1 went, but that I could see his point about remus. I put remus as my number 2 choice for scum.
  
• STD posted a very impressive analysis of remus. It was very persuasive on its own terms, but needed to be checked for accuracy or context. [As I remember, there was a lack of links to posts he quoted, and he only quoted short extracts.]
  
• I was going to check STD's post, but never got round to it.
  
• I'm sure other discussion had occurred too.

I don't suppose you could re-do your analysis STD?

[Mr Stoofer]

Stoofer's approach for the next 2 days

:

We've got 7 players left, probably 1 scum.

Looking at the nightscene, I think that the scum's night 1 kill was delayed to night 2. Seems to me that they have the option of a delayed kill. Anyway, I assume that they have only 1 kill per night (on average).

With 7 players and 1 scum, we have 3 chances to lynch and only have to be right once.

In those circumstances, I happy with lynching either remus or TSQ, and then worrying about the third lynch in the unlikely event that they are both pro-town.

I'm keeping my vote on TSQ because he is the lynch-leader. I'll switch if remus/replacement overtakes him.

[Mr Stoofer]

Here's a deal for you. Our next three lynches are me, remus, and you, in whatever order the town would like. If that doesn't end the game, then the scum deserve their win.

No deal. I'm not going to agree to the Town giving up 1 of their 3 chances to lynch scum.

[Mr Stoofer]

I thought you said you were sure Remus and I are scum? If that's so, why wouldn't you be willing, as a townie, to give yourself up to assure we're lynched. Hell, if you went along with my plan, I'd hammer myself.

In those circumstances, I happy with lynching either remus or TSQ, and then worrying about the third lynch in the unlikely event that they are both pro-town.

That's a million miles from being "sure Remus and [you] are scum".

That's because I'm 89.9% the scum is in you and Remus.

Those are good odds but they can be better. I'd say I am 80% sure that the last scum is in {Thestatusquo, remussaidow}. I envy you your confidence, if you are Town. If I'm wrong, then I want a chance to lynch scum in the endgame. I'm not prepared to settle for an 80% chance of victory when there is no need to do so.

[Mr Stoofer]

Incidentally, your statement that you'd be prepared to hammer yourself cuts no ice with me. I've seen scum try this gambit.

[Mr Stoofer]

Who hasn't checked in since the downtime?

[Mr Stoofer]

I've done another re-read of remussaidow's posts. Scummy scummy scum scum.

Let's just lynch him today, to save Zindie the bother of replacing him.

Unvote: Thestatusquo

,

vote: remussaidow

.

[Mr Stoofer]

That gives you the honour of the hammer, Thestatusquo...

[Mr Stoofer]

Who's Pat?

[Mr Stoofer]

remus/Pat is gone. He's not going to claim. The reason we are lynching him rather than you is to save on replacements.

Calling for a claim makes you look more scummy in my eyes, to be honest. You said that you wanted him lynched; so why do you now want a claim? It strikes me as a rather forced attempt by you to look pro-town. (On day 1 in this post you seemed sure that the scum had safe claims, although I guess TJM kinda disproved that.)

Still happy with a remus lynch today though, you tomorrow.

[Mr Stoofer]

From whom? remussaidow is gone.

[Mr Stoofer]

I have no idea about anything to do with Diablo...

[Mr Stoofer]

Thanks STD. I read the explosion as mere flavour, too (although I'm not really up with the flavour of this game, obviously).

So remussaidow's claim is not enough for me to unvote him.

[Mr Stoofer]

I am simply unable to rely on (im)plausibility of claims, unless there is unanimity from the other players that a claim is/is not plausible. I'm going to continue to rely on my reading of remussaidow's (and everyone else's) posts.

[Mr Stoofer]

We may need a replacement mod: Zindaras seems to have gone AWOL. I've had to take over his Newbie Game...

[Mr Stoofer]

You aren't very convincing and I'll tell you why. My mason group has a few abilities that go with it, one of which is to roleblock and we've roleblocked you the last two nights. Lo and behold there have been no deaths over the past two nights as well. I'm relatively certain you are scum at this point tsq because I highly doubt that the remaining scum(s) would pass up the chance to kill for two nights in a row.

I'm pretty convinced that TSQ is scum and that this is a gambit. but this new information is important. I'd be in favour of a mass claim now (I'm interested in powers, not roles) to see if there is any other way to account for the lack of deaths. If not, well, I'll hammer TSQ.

[Mr Stoofer]

I've already called hammer in post 671. You go ahead and vote now alko.

[Mr Stoofer]

Oh sod it, I'm going away tomorrow so I better put my vote on now:

vote: Thestatusquo

. I really deserve the hammer, too.

Thanks for modding Zindie, and well played everyone. This was a classy town performance that I was proud to be part of.

[Mr Stoofer]

Damn! If only I had waited a few minutes I could have had the hammer.

And al_ko didn't even know that he was hammering!

[Mr Stoofer]

Remus shouldn't have been lynched.

STD's blockbuster post on remus was really damning. Pity it was wrong, but it sure convinced me. A pity it got lost in the crash...