Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[zakk]

TCold/havingfitz is probably town too. I like what I see so far.

[N]

Vote Count 2.04

havingfitz

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(1) ICEninja

toolenduso

(1) Skelda

Sir Bastion

(1) Thor665

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(3) Elyse, Sir Bastion, Slandaar

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz, zakk, Garmr, toolenduso

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-05 22:21:57)

[Sir Bastion]

Also sorry for all the posts in a row but I'm on a roll here.

really?

rolling in circles perhaps!

almost reads to me the exact same long post you wrote yesterday. Sure Iceninja and Slandaar have new details, but you are saying pretty much the same on the others minus the big breakdown of which of my posts you didnt like.

[zakk]

Well good, at least now I know my thoughts are consistent with yesterday then, after all my re-reading. Thanks for that reassurance.

Quick re-reads indicate havingfitz and Skelda slots are probably town too. I am going to tackle Slandaar and Macros/Elyse re-reads tomorrow.

If Thor flips town, it changes everything of course, but if he flips scum then it's just a matter of time before we can bury the rest of them.

[Slandaar]

I didn't know a hider died if he hid behind scum.

Lynch all liars: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2279014

I highly doubt IceNinja is scum

lol

We all saw what happened on Day 1, didn't we?

I caught scum?

Yeah you don't want that to happen again.

[ICEninja]

Fitz I have no memory of that game you linked me. 2010? Seriously?

Granted, you apparently did a shit ton of research to find that, and I'm kind of impressed. I doubt scum would look so hard to find out if I've encountered a hider or not. I'll toss you in the town bucket for the purpose of today just for that.

Normals are allowed one "semi" normal roll. I forget if there is a specific term for it, but there's an allowance for one roll that stretches a bit the definition of a "normal" game. And I'm pretty damn sure that an every other day hider fits that bill JUST RIGHT. PGO is another "semi" normal roll that isn't explicitly normal but isn't disallowed. I'm 95% sure that normal games can't have more than one of these roles. Therefore there is no PGO. A roleblocker, as well, would not have caused F-16's death, it would have prevented it.

I've seen a lot of "Bastian is scum!" posts and it confuses me. ABR said he was scum too. Can someone give me a quick bullet point case why people think he's scum?

[havingfitz]

^ way to not address the points I brought up. Essentially I just proved:

- you lied about encountering hiders before (errrrr.....but not real hiders )

- you lied about typically lynching them, and

- you lied about not knowing how they work. You might not know every nuance of the roll but you sure as he// knew they died if they hid behind scum.

Discuss.



BTW...I was going to vote Thor now but L-3 seems like a good spot to maintain him for entertainment's sake. L-2 puts him in range for a self vote and that would be

[Thor665]

Why are you asking me what you would already know if you had... you know, read my posts?

There aren't that many of them, surely it shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Wait, so you mean two flips and a possible Hider effect change nothing for you?

What is your read on me, Thor?
I'm interested to know in light of your comments about me earlier when you were briefly voting me.

Thorough answer, please.

Oh, well you see, I gave it once, that means it never changes...

But, no, currently my read on you is town that is annoying me by thinking he's clevr and advancing really questionable reads.
But town.

What exactly is your defense here? Because I'm not seeing how any of this "Vote IceNinja" baloney is anything but a last ditch attempt to prolong your life another miserable day.
My bad, y'see, a few seconds ago you said I was scum because I *wasn't* fighting stuff.
Then, when I point out that I was fighting stuff and you realize it, then that makes me scum for fighting my lynch.

Seriously man? Do you even read what you're saying?

If Thor flips town, it changes everything of course

Here's a hint, if I flip town - lynch Bastion and Ice in any order.

Normals are allowed one "semi" normal roll. I forget if there is a specific term for it, but there's an allowance for one roll that stretches a bit the definition of a "normal" game. And I'm pretty damn sure that an every other day hider fits that bill JUST RIGHT. PGO is another "semi" normal roll that isn't explicitly normal but isn't disallowed. I'm 95% sure that normal games can't have more than one of these roles. Therefore there is no PGO. A roleblocker, as well, would not have caused F-16's death, it would have prevented it.

The three categories are;
Explicitly Normal
Normal
Non-Normal

Hider is *explicitly normal* No, it does not count as an exception.
Non-consecutive is also explicitly normal. It also does not count as an exception.
PGO would be Normal, and could be included int he game.

Anyone who had REALLY looked at the setup info would know this. Which means you're lying. Shock - since you're scum.
Good job backing your scumbuddy's bad case on me and acting like you're being helpful.
Town is so fething blind sometimes.

[Thor665]

Why are you asking me what you would already know if you had... you know, read my posts?

There aren't that many of them, surely it shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Wait, so you mean two flips and a possible Hider effect change nothing for you?

What is your read on me, Thor?
I'm interested to know in light of your comments about me earlier when you were briefly voting me.

Thorough answer, please.

Oh, well you see, I gave it once, that means it never changes...

But, no, currently my read on you is town that is annoying me by thinking he's clevr and advancing really questionable reads.
But town.

What exactly is your defense here? Because I'm not seeing how any of this "Vote IceNinja" baloney is anything but a last ditch attempt to prolong your life another miserable day.

My bad, y'see, a few seconds ago you said I was scum because I *wasn't* fighting stuff.
Then, when I point out that I was fighting stuff and you realize it, then that makes me scum for fighting my lynch.

Seriously man? Do you even read what you're saying?

If Thor flips town, it changes everything of course

Here's a hint, if I flip town - lynch Bastion and Ice in any order.

Normals are allowed one "semi" normal roll. I forget if there is a specific term for it, but there's an allowance for one roll that stretches a bit the definition of a "normal" game. And I'm pretty damn sure that an every other day hider fits that bill JUST RIGHT. PGO is another "semi" normal roll that isn't explicitly normal but isn't disallowed. I'm 95% sure that normal games can't have more than one of these roles. Therefore there is no PGO. A roleblocker, as well, would not have caused F-16's death, it would have prevented it.

The three categories are;
Explicitly Normal
Normal
Non-Normal

Hider is *explicitly normal* No, it does not count as an exception.
Non-consecutive is also explicitly normal. It also does not count as an exception.
PGO would be Normal, and could be included int he game.

Anyone who had REALLY looked at the setup info would know this. Which means you're lying. Shock - since you're scum.
Good job backing your scumbuddy's bad case on me and acting like you're being helpful.
Town is so fething blind sometimes.

[Thor665]

tl/dr

Just read the last quote and my answer to it.
Then recognize that you are all dumb, lynch me, then lynch Ice and Bastion.

[toolenduso]

So....did everybody just skip over my case against Garmr? Or is everyone ignoring it because they thought it was dumb or something?

It's right here, in case you're interested.

[zakk]

Your case assumes Thor is a)town, and b)not a manipulative person. Which means it is a bad case.

[havingfitz]

Sure Tool....re: your case in Post 822:

You thought the milking D1 sentiment was fine.  Check

Then you provided a D1 exchange between Thor and Gamr (where I think the summary is that Thor is suspecting Garmr for wanting to wait?)....but then you put in a quote (Post 790) from D2 where Garmr is being consistent about "milking the day".  Why does his consistency wrt milking the day on D1 and D2 make him suspect?  Or at least...what does his D2 comment have to do with anything?  As for Thor coaxing him to vote sooner...why does the timeliness of Garmr's ABR vote matter when he had stated his intention to vote ABR already?  It's not like Thor talked him into voting ABR out of the blue. 

But looking at Garmr a little closer...he didn't really have all that much suspicion voiced towards ABR.  One spot in Post 180 where he essentially suspected ABR for OMGUS and being abrasive.  In the same post (Post 180) in which he calls ABR scum...he says zakk is "probably scum" and that GuthrieGov is a "slight scum read."  So he has what appears to be a stronger scum read on zakk and ABR than he does on Guthrie yet he maintains a vote on Guthrie.  Rather than having his vote on ABR (who has a larger wagon) or zakk. 

And looking back as his reason for voting Guthrie in the first place...I don't really think there is anything to his reasoning.  Which makes the previous point I make about him maintaining a Guthrie vote vs an ABR or zakk vote all the more suspect.

tl:dr;/

....I suspect Garmr.  Not so much for the tool case but more upon further review.  But it doesn't matter today because Thor is the lynch and I think I like ICEninja better for tomorrow.

Speaking of which...tool...could you take a look at my two or three posts directed towards ICEninja and provide an updated view since I do not think you did a very thorough job in your first opinion provided.  Specifically posts:  794, 817, and 881.

[toolenduso]

I will respond to both of you when I get home around 6:30 p.m. PST.

[Thor665]

I suspect Garmr. Not so much for the tool case but more upon further review. But it doesn't matter today because Thor is the lynch and I think I like ICEninja better for tomorrow.  Not so much for the tool case but more upon further review.  But it doesn't matter today because Thor is the lynch and I think I like ICEninja better for tomorrow.

I approve of this.

Because it fulfills my ability to laugh at people from the Dead QT and be proven correct.

[havingfitz]

Excellent! An endorsement!

[ICEninja]

Discuss.

That post you linked was years ago and I have no memory of it. By the looks of things, before making that post I read the wiki about what hiders do.

I remembered encountering fake claim hiders before. They're uncommon and therefore unlikely to be counter claimed, and a hider surviving the night is a lot less suspicious than a cop surviving the night. I had no memory of them having informational powers, I always thought it was a survival role (like bullet proof, except requires you to pick the person NOT getting shot).

Hider is *explicitly normal* No, it does not count as an exception.

Hmm. You're right, wiki calls hider normal. I suppose it is just a very rarely used role. Though I must state, lying and being incorrect are different.

I suppose it is

theoretically possible

that F-16 hid behind a PGO, but Thor has already decided to not claim PGO and F-16 made it clear he was going to target Thor. So discussion of a possible PGO causing F-16's death is pointless and probably a desperate reach for Thor.

And Tool I'm right on board with you thinking Garmr should be tomorrow's lynch. Maxous was, too.

[ICEninja]

Excellent! An endorsement!

...From (nearly) confirmed scum.

[Thor665]

@fitz - Well, really, with the timing you're endorsing me, but I'm a generous guy and will share the wealth.

@Ice - way to misrep why I even brought up the PGO discussion.

[havingfitz]

Excellent! An endorsement!

...From (nearly) confirmed scum.

Humor eludes you

[ICEninja]

I'm not a funny guy.

[Elyse]

@Garmr
My posting style has not changed because I am being townread. I'm pretty sure I was being townread yesterday too. After a flip, (3 actually), my reads have strengthened and I have less doubts. That's natural, and you're trying to paint it as scummy.

[ICEninja]

After the people who suspect Bastian of being scum put together a little bullet point case of why, I think we should all just stare at Skelda until he posts content.

Aside from those 2 I feel good enough about my reads to move on to day 3.

[toolenduso]

Your case assumes Thor is a)town, and b)not a manipulative person. Which means it is a bad case.

My case explicitly assumes Thor is scum. Half the case is that Garmr took a cue from his scumbuddy Thor, as I state right here:

My guess is that Garmr, who's pretty much admitted that he hasn't done his best in this game, took a cue from his

scumbuddy Thor

, who is an experienced leader-type player, to hurry up and lynch ABR already.

@Fitz:

Sure Tool....re: your case in Post 822:

You thought the milking D1 sentiment was fine.  Check

Then you provided a D1 exchange between Thor and Gamr (where I think the summary is that Thor is suspecting Garmr for wanting to wait?)....but then you put in a quote (Post 790) from D2 where Garmr is being consistent about "milking the day".  Why does his consistency wrt milking the day on D1 and D2 make him suspect?  Or at least...what does his D2 comment have to do with anything?  As for Thor coaxing him to vote sooner...why does the timeliness of Garmr's ABR vote matter when he had stated his intention to vote ABR already?  It's not like Thor talked him into voting ABR out of the blue.

My point is that it wasn't consistent. Garmr was fine with "milking" at first, then as soon as Thor challenged him on it, Garmr decided "milking" wasn't a good idea, then in day 2 he's back to the idea of "milking."

The day 2 part isn't even really that important. What's important is the way Garmr reacted to A) being pressured to comment on ABR; and B) Thor challening his "milking" sentiment. Both examples show Garmr perfectly willing to be pushed toward a town lynch.

And I don't think Thor saw any advantage in lynching ABR sooner rather than later -- or if he did, it doesn't matter. But Garmr took Thor's cue, which does matter if Thor flips scum. ScumThor was just challenging things he didn't agree with with equal opportunity, which he's been doing all game. Garmr thought Thor was trying to provide some subtle direction.

As for ICEninja, I have no more opinions that haven't been expressed already, so let me see if I can make it even more clear for you.

Post 794: "How can you typically lynch hiders if you've never encountered one?"
Post 817: "“Typically' would imply you have lynched a hider more than once."
Post 881: "you lied about typically lynching them"
Post 881: "you lied about encountering hiders before"

My answer: ICE never, ever, ever, ever said he had encountered a REAL hider. He said he's encountered people who CLAIMED to be hiders, who turned out not to be. The link you posted to the 2010 game is an example of this.

Here's what ICE is saying: "I have never lynched a real hider. I have lynched fake hiders."
Here's what you're saying: "ICE said he's lynched a real hider!"

Post 817: "You realize until you know the hider is real or not it’s all the same."

My answer: That would be true during the game in question, but ICE is talking about games that have already ended. Therefore, he can look back now and know with absolute certainty that the people who claimed hider were not hiders.

Post 881: "you lied about not knowing how they work."

My answer:

That post you linked was years ago and I have no memory of it. By the looks of things, before making that post I read the wiki about what hiders do.

I remembered encountering fake claim hiders before. They're uncommon and therefore unlikely to be counter claimed, and a hider surviving the night is a lot less suspicious than a cop surviving the night. I had no memory of them having informational powers, I always thought it was a survival role (like bullet proof, except requires you to pick the person NOT getting shot).

I feel like this pretty much explains everything.

If you insist on pursuing this line of reasoning, I challenge you to quote the post where ICE claims to have lynched somebody who actually turned out to be a hider -- NOT a post where he says he's played a game where somebody CLAIMED to be hider, but in fact was NOT A HIDER.

[N]

bump