Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[XReyoX]

And to the other people, if you want to lynch me. Could you please please please x100000 save it for day2. I really don't want to die on a Day1 lynch in my first game.

I would really appreciate it.

[remussaidow]

I agree with Bird up above its time for a good old fashioned

unvote

since the game's at the serious stage now.

Otu, Kison, and Reyo looks the most suspicious to me, but no one stands out as needing an additional vote... yet

[Raffles]

On the one hand, the assessment of OTU's vote is a perfectly reasonable one. But the trap's he's describing having set is a bizarre justification of an equally bad vote. "I figured there were 6 scum in the game, so I placed a vote I didn't actually believe in to see who else would jump on the bandwagon at lynch -6."

First of all, traps like that don't work at lynch -6, even if you know for certain that there are exactly 6 scum in the game. If scum are going to jump on a bandwagon, they're more likely to do it closer to lynch than -6; maybe at lynch -2 or -3, but not at -6. If it looks like scum are pushing toward a fast lynch, they have to all vote in relatively quick time or someone will get wise and remove their vote. It's hard enough to do that with two scum, doing it with six is downright laughable.

And that assumes that there weren't already any scum on the bandwagon. If one of the six scum was already voting XReyoX, then the remaining five know they can't get to lynch and so they just have to wait.

To me this looks like and ad hoc, and frankly ridiculous, explanation for a vote in an attempt to make sure that the bandwagon that follows XReyoX's is on OverTheUnder and not on Raffles.

I take your point, but there are few things you haven't considered.

Probably the most crucial. 6 (or 4) scums

do not know who each other are

. They know their scum buddies, but they have no knowleddge of the other group. This makes it far more likely that a scum is going to turn up and push the wagon, especially if it is half way through (i.e. false sense of security that it would be okay to vote since it is not putting Reyo on lynch -1 or 2 or whatever).

I had to put a vote I didn't believe in to push the wagon up to half way line. Otherwise wagon might have fizzled out. I thought it would be the best timing too as no one has done anything overly stupid yet to dismantle this wagon. Please consider it again.

[Kison]

Legit scum tells? So you're sure that I'm a scum then.

A scum tell is something

indicative

of scum. So no, that does not mean that I'm certain.

Even if I do die, we have enough people to cast vote to lynch you when my alignment is revealed.

Typical "you will be sorry when you realize I'm innocent" threat.

[XReyoX]

Typical "you will be sorry when you realize I'm innocent" threat.

No. This is the I'll-die-together-with-you-if-you-wish thread" ( On Day 2)

If you're a scum, it would be beneficial at all cost.

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: OverTheUnder

I think Raffles was just wagoning Reyo for fun and is trying to take credit for the "trap". He's not scum for it, just dumb. I know, I've tried it before. Regardless, OTU's vote was still way opportunistic.

[Fuldu]

I had to put a vote I didn't believe in to push the wagon up to half way line.

I continue to find your establishment of this halfway line to be bizarre and unsupported by reason. I basically agree with MoS here, except that I'm less willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Raffles]

*mutters to self*

Last time I lay a bloody trap then... nobody would take me seriously.

I've given up of any hope of convincing you two, but honestly, what is there to gain from jumping in to take credit? Not only I despise such dishonest acts, it would gain me nothing other than cheap street cred that wouldn't prove anything. Whereas I would get some skill if I actually thought about what I'm doing. Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum. End of story.

[Kison]

but honestly, what is there to gain from jumping in to take credit?

An excuse for why you jumped on the bandwagon of course.

[Raffles]

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story

.

[Kison]

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story

.

Your claiming that does not change the fact that there was indeed a possible gain for "taking credit".

[Raffles]

What do I need to drive a point home? A sledgehammer?

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story.

[remussaidow]

in my experience, the only people who repeatedly use the same argument are scum.

HEAVY FOS: Raffles.

[Raffles]

in my experience, the only people who repeatedly use the same argument are scum.

HEAVY FOS: Raffles.

This is getting way unneccesary and ridiculous. Alright, I'll play along.

First, I have not used any argument, let alone a same one. I just said, you can think what you want, but this is what I did, end of story.

Second, and more amusingly, what are these things called scum tells, then?

[Kison]

What do I need to drive a point home? A sledgehammer?

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story.

Ok, so you can just say "end of story" and expect that everyone takes your word for it and moves on?

Horrible rebuttal.

Unvote

Vote : Raffles

[remussaidow]

What do I need to drive a point home? A sledgehammer?

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story.

Your quote within this quote is a statement that is being used to sway people to your point of view. This is called an argument. You've used it 3, fours times now, I'm not sure how many. That's a scumtell, in my experience.

[Raffles]

Ok, so you can just say "end of story" and expect that everyone takes your word for it and moves on?

Horrible rebuttal.

Nope, this is because you have not read things properly. Tsk.

I just said, you can think what you want, but this is what I did, end of story.

Your claiming that does not change the fact that there was indeed a possible gain for "taking credit".

Now if you wanted any serious response on this (I apologize, but you didn't ask for any, I thought you were just trying to rub it in and piss me off), then all I can say is it is a natural human nature to assume a worst case scenario, when the welfare of themselves or the ones the subject cares for is not concerned. Just look at how media reports politics. I am not going to fight against something so inherently embedded, it is futile.

Your quote within this quote is a statement that is being used to

sway people to your point of view

. This is called an argument. You've used it 3, fours times now, I'm not sure how many. That's a scumtell, in my experience.

I think I give up with sledgehammer. I'm gonna move onto wrecking ball.

I just said,

you can think what you want

, but this is what I did, end of story.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: remussaidow

for ridiculous reasoning.

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

1 Battle Mage (OverTheUnder)
1 Der Hammer (theopor_COD)
1 IH (~N9V~)

3 Kison (Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Scarecrow)
3 OverTheUnder (Fuldu, Mastermind of Sin, Raffles)

1 remussaidow (Mr Flay)

3 Raffles (Der Hammer, Kison, Wizardcat)

1 Wizardcat (Akbar)

3 XReyoX (al4xz, OverTheUnder, PBuG)

4 not voting

11 to lynch

[Akbar]

@Remus
What do you feel Raffles was trying to sway us to believe?

[Battle Mage]

lol i find myself agreeing with reyox alot here. Its true that Kison does the same thing with me in all my games too!
im not entirely convinced he is scum, but currently him and OTU look alot worse than anyone else.

[XReyoX]

Hm... Kison, the way you lay your votes are a bit strange to me..

At first you vote me saying you've got legit reasons which include I'm trying to do trend thing, for scummy logic, and pretend to be innocent..etc..

1) I used random.org

2) Although unusual, how does the "trend" look scummy?

3)

FoS : XReyoX

for BattleMage logic.

Typical "you will be sorry when you realize I'm innocent" threat.

But now you've moved your vote onto raffles where the reason is:

What do I need to drive a point home? A sledgehammer?

Whether you believe it or not, I did it with full intention of catching a scum.

End of story.

Ok, so you can just say "end of story" and expect that everyone takes your word for it and moves on?

Horrible rebuttal.

Unvote

Vote : Raffles

Comparing the two, there is more sense to stick with your original vote rather than moving it onto raffles. You really should put your vote on sumeone you think is making the most serious scumtells and not who make the newest scumtell.

The second point is that there isn't any point pushing raffles for making more explanation of his vote or challenge the post he made about L-6 and the halfway line. If he's a town, the explanation is enough and he don't need to make something up although I feel that he's trying to credit himself for the trap while I deserve the full credit more than he does ( pwn you raffles)

Also, as for the timing of your vote: You were constantly bashing me for being a scum since the very start of the game. After "the trap" thing, the tide clearly shifted its side on OTU and people were starting to unvote me. You gave me a feeling that since I no long have the wagon, you were trying to divert the attention onto someone else since you made the initial "get rid of Reyo cos he's annoying" post which is going to draw more and more attention.

In addition, i believe that raffles dun have to give an explaination to his vote in the first place, or neither does he have to risk his life to vote for me at the beginning because that would certainly result in some questioning from other ppl. Everyone understand that giving me another vote based on previous reasons would not result me in a lynch since at least 2 ppl ( IH and Al4xz) were on me just for the sake of wagoning and they have more than enough reason to unvote before I reach 11 votes.

Re: Akbar. What remu was trying he thinks raffles is swaying us to believe he voted me for setting up a trap not for wagoning.

In my point of view, the wagoning will not work in the first place. therefore i dun see the point of arguing.


Remu: if raffles is not going to give another reason, then you won't get another one even if you bash him 100 times. Do you what him to hand-make one just for you?

Raffles: I have a feeling that you are making up reasons for the vote. you have been avoiding using numbers or statistical method to analysis stuffs whenever we have an argument ( in real life). The pushing above the halfway line sounds ridiculous to me. If you said you voted me because you wanna see me getting paranoid again as in the beginning of the game, I would be more convinced.

I guess we should concentrate more on OTU at the moment before the attention get carried away. I'll see what he have to say

[XReyoX]

Ar... sorry for the bad english in my last post...

Vote : Battlemage

..
.. sorry about that as well.. I'll unvote in my next post when there's a chance.

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote: remussaidow

despite the fact that his logic is still terrible. I'm much more interested in

Voting: Raffles

; why exactly do you assume there are 6 scum (your words) in this game? Why would you think that "lynch -6" is a worthwhile trap?

[Scarecrow]

Good point. I'll take advantage of your point to cover up the fact that I'm been lazy about looking for scum and

unvote: Kison

vote: Raffles