Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Maxous]

I don't think ABR is scum in this game, because if he is, his scum strategy seems very unnecessarily complicated

[Thor665]

I think the entire Thor wagon was town-driven.

Too early for me to say anything else with certainty.

Why is that? One sheeped your admitted lie.
Another claimed he would read up, and then voted me immediately after I commented on his play.
And the last avoids commenting on your push like it was made of Greek fire.

@Elyse and Thor

Assume I'm town. Who is scummier between IceNinja and Sir Bastion?

If I was to presume you were town I'd actually want to lynch Slandaar.
If I was to presume you were town and that by some odd mod fiat I was forced to lynch one of those two I'd lynch Ice. I have issues with both of them, but Bastion has extroverted his work better whereas Ice seems to prefer not to discuss things even when I try to draw him out. That would probably be the pusher for me.

No, I am not going to want to compromise off you and Slandaar to lynch Ice as a derp alternative.

[Thor665]

I don't think ABR is scum in this game, because if he is, his scum strategy seems very unnecessarily complicated

I don't think ABR is town in this game, because if he is, his town strategy seems very unnecessarily complicated

Also, his scum strategy isn't actually that complicated.
He lied to press a case.
Was caught in that lie.
Lied to save face and unvoted.
Then, when it became clear he was still in the running he voted the biggest wagon (me) for a lulztastic reason that isn't even a scumtell if you squint.

What am I missing here?

[Thor665]

I should clarify as 'biggest alternate' natch - but the point holds.

[Maxous]

as in why he would go after you in the first place with a complicated-ish case when he could just EZ lynch Garmr or slandaar or someone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why is that? One sheeped your admitted lie.

If I present your behaviors in a way that makes you look scummy, that isn't seen as a lie by your average player. It's seen as posting content. And calling another player scum despite imperfect information, is a widely accepted practice.

You're begging the question. You're reaching. You're acting scummy now.

Why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Personal problem with me? Or you are completely lost in this game?

[Thor665]

as in why he would go after you in the first place with a complicated-ish case when he could just EZ lynch Garmr or slandaar or someone.

His case was...not complicated.
I presume he went after me, as I've already said, because I'd already indicated distrust of him and was the only other experienced voice in the game.

If I present your behaviors in a way that makes you look scummy, that isn't seen as a lie by your average player. It's seen as posting content.

No, whether or not the rest of them saw it prior to you admitting it does not make it less of a lie and more content.

And calling another player scum despite imperfect information, is a widely accepted practice.

As long as it's not intentionally imperfect.
Well, unless we're talking scum play.
Oh...wait, never mind.

You're begging the question. You're reaching. You're acting scummy now.

Why?

I am not begging a question, I am offering my opinion. If you share a different one you're supposed to present it and your reasoning...which is actually what I was explicitly inviting. Instead you dodge and sling mud. Also, it is hardly a reach to suggest the wagon on me was bad, I know it was bad and so do you.

[Thor665]

I don't even understand how this constitutes a defense or response.

Well, yeah, I lied, but it was *content* so it was okay. Also, town doesn't *know* that their case is perfect, so it's totally legit that I lied to advance a case because, hey, who knows, maybe my lies would be real.

I am amazed you expect anyone to buy this.

[Sir Bastion]

EBWOP

My goal is not to make people suspicious of Thor. They need to make up their own minds about Thor.

As for the *baggage* yes, it is an error in that comment. You did claim not to remember thor prior to this game.

Exactly.

He is saying that you brought baggage into the game.
Read it as 'increased drama'
And not 'brought drama from a point in the past'

This post quoted above shows a complete misunderstanding, and lack of reading of this game.

Unvote, vote Thor

huh. I missed this.

People have been making up their own minds, but in the possible scenario that thor is scum you and slandaar have spent half this day feeding him ammunition to a) defend himself and b) keep this game focused away from him when necessary. Congratulations

We dont need you to help us make up our minds, most players in this game have been making up their own minds regardless of thor.

How many people followed Thor on to my wagon Zero

How many people followed Thor on to Slandaars wagon. Only 1, and my post putting down my vote I made clear I wasnt voting slandaar because of thor's misrep argument.

How many people followed you on to Thor's wagon. 2, straight after post 292, the one where you used the games thor provided as a contrast to his game here.

How many people followed thor on to your wagon. 4, but I think you'll find every one of them made very clear in their own words all the stupid stuff you've done that has warranted those votes.

So that means Thor has actually only led one wagon this game. Which is this one and to be fair you did do a lot of questionable actions to warrant it and it is the wagon that came *after* you supposably took the fight to thor and broke his control of this game to give us the lowly players free will. Doesnt quite fit.

You seem to have created some fantasy world where Thor had dominance over this game and you needed to break it, yet despite posting a lot and calling for speed lynches and crying misrep, very few players in this game have backed him up or sheeped him or much else.


As for his misunderstanding, I find it interesting and noted that he felt the need to answer for me, it's odd and I'll see where it'll fit in later.

Meanwhile you are still the scummiest player in this game




or the most deluded.

[Sir Bastion]

as in why he would go after you in the first place with a complicated-ish case when he could just EZ lynch Garmr or slandaar or someone.

OOO! OOO! Can I answer this using Alberts own words?

Scum are interested in framing town and will go after players with opinions. Or they will go for players who are either suspecting them or on the verge of suspecting them.

sorry couldnt resist.

Though I am saddened that Albert's gone back to voting thor, it's almost as if the last 10 pages never happened.

[Elyse]

Garmr's last few posts have me really unnerved. I don't like them and I feel like he's hiding behind this newb facade and avoiding commenting on the pressing issues. He just overreacts to them emotionally (example: headdesk that made his head bleed) but doesn't say if it's scummy or whatnot.

@Elyse and Thor

Assume I'm town. Who is scummier between IceNinja and Sir Bastion?

I have townreads on both of them, but gun to my head, Ice. And that's because Bastion basically replicates my thought processes in his posts, which means I know it's coming from a town PoV.

Your argument of you doing your "fake case" to break Thor's hold on the game is A) contradictory and B) nonsensical.

A. You already said that you did the fake case to show Thor how easily you could run him up and get his lynch going. This quote in particular:

Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.

makes it look like you weren't faking and came up with that after you realized your case wasn't good.

B. Thor was not the town leader in any way and in fact had suspicions on him. As Bastion touched on, your fake case helped him if anything because it took the heat off of him and put it (understandably) onto you. This is good if he is town but scary if he is scum.

So yeah I'm ready to lynch this guy once the lurkers post.

[Slandaar]

"I expect X to avoid challenging me on this issue, because when me and X fight like this in the last game we get into such a hissy girly fight that one of us ended up lynched. So X will not challenge me even though he doesnt know if I'm scum or not he will leave me be and not question me or pressure me or come near me in any form because last time that ended badly for us "


Thats not meta.

I don't see why I need to explain it as the example should have been enough.

If you play with someone in a few games they will figure out how to read you or should at least figure out things that don't work (relates to both alignments) and so knowing what does and does not work to read someone you adapt to read them using what does and avoid what doesn't.

Thors play has not evolved at the level I would expect it to if he were town here.

That is a meta case.

[Slandaar]

Correct, I said misrep - oddly my misrep description specifically noted how you weren't addressing what he really did, and my cropping comment is not an actual different comment.

I addressed his whole post initially after which there was no need.

I literally just said. You even know what you're being accused of cropping. Fire. Go die in it.

I asked where not what.

Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.

Thats it isn't it?

lol.

I am just going to leave this here as it actually shows exactly what I have been saying all along.

[Sir Bastion]

@Thor: odd question... but when was the last time you played a game with Slandaar?

[N]

Vote Count 1.16

TCold

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(3) Skelda, TCold, Maxous

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(3) Slandaar, zakk, Albert B. Rampage

Elyse

(0)

Maxous

(0)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(5) Thor665, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

V/LA:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon until Friday

[Skelda]

Hey everyone! Haven't read the thread yet, so no idea what is going on. Look forward to working with you all!

[ICEninja]

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.

The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.

I'm feeling uneasy about this.

What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.

TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.

[Garmr]

@maxous
To anwser your post 391 which i just read after isoing.
I haven't stayed away from the Abr,SLaandar and Thor affair. I said it does my head in and I gave my opinions and it gives me a head ache that it continued aslong as it did.
Thor-null
Slaandar-null-town
and
Abr-scum
Which i said in the begging of this mess.

The only thing that has changed that I haven't mentioned is Thor's gone from null to town and that only happened in the last couple of posts which is after your question. You may of actually got most of these facts if you actually read what I was saying instead of being lazy.

This is redonkulous

Called ABR scum in #180 before the ABR-Thor shenanigans began.

no comment,"It hurts my head", no comment, no comment/it hurts my head

Where are these opinions?

Looks like avoiding the debate to me.

I already Gave my opinion on the debate when I gave my reasons and it was pretty much the same thing over and over so that's why no new opinions were formed. You act like something new happened in the debate.

Also what did Abr do prove he was town. Also those shenanigans started at 87. This is getting frustrating another lazy case.

First lazy case- "Garmr Stayed well clear" I gave my case about why ABR is scum.

and now this. It's like your using another lazy case to cover another one. Please make a case I can't just flick aside by pointing out where your wrong. You did those earlier why are you getting lazy now.

[Garmr]

Oh gave my opinion why abr is scum and I thought slandaar town and thor null (Thor now is town). Didn't mean to leave that part out.

[toolenduso]

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter.

There's three votes on Garmr and three on Thor right now. Do those not count as wagons?

[Thor665]

I addressed his whole post initially after which there was no need.

If by whole post you mean 'part of his post' then I agree.

I asked where not what.

If you know what, then you ought to know whether you have done it or not already.

Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.

Thats it isn't it?

I've been saying that since you presented your original argument - yes.

@Thor: odd question... but when was the last time you played a game with Slandaar?

Don't recall specifically.
I'd guess within the last six months or so.

I did a quick bit of Googlefu and all that popped up is a game from over a year ago (Mini 1347)
Hurm, and looks like also Mini 1390 from a year ago.
Maybe that's it?
1390 was me town and Slandaar scum though, and the way Slandaar is talking it sounds like there was another game inbetween here and there with him as town, but I'm totally blanking on what it is.

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter.

There's three votes on Garmr and three on Thor right now. Do those not count as wagons?

I second this as it's what I was thinking when I read that comment.

[N]

havingfitz replaces TCold

[Slandaar]

Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.

Thats it isn't it?

I've been saying that since you presented your original argument - yes.

So for 22 pages that has been your entire case. Hardly a big issue. My alignment is related to belief of the argument not the argument itself.

'I think this post should have just been a question'
'NO WAY YOU SCUM YOU CANT POSSIBLY THINK THAT'

Are we lynching Thor now or what?

[Slandaar]

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.

The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.

I'm feeling uneasy about this.

What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.

TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.

This is scum too.

'Only Sland push elsewhere lets lynch him!'

Uh well there won't be any pushes elsewhere except from ABR (maybe) so its the same scenario, I see what you are trying to do though.