Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Sir Bastion]

I too am getting a false bravado feel from Thor after a preliminary read through. I will have to go read his other games as well. Garmr changing his vote to me makes me feel even more satisfied with my vote on him. I'll comment more in depth about these situations and more I noticed, today or tomorrow. Before the end of the 3-day weekend for sure.

why does him voting you make you feel he's scum?

[Thor665]

No, it's plain as day that you're scum.

Then why not explain how?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I did. Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum. You probe, you ask questions, you make statements like "Let's see where this wagon goes". This is similar to what I'm doing in this game (my vote on Garmr or Slandaar). However, here, you don't do those things, you jump to a per-determined conclusion and aren't interested in anything except controlling the lynch. I'll repeat it again for you. Your certainty on Slandaar (ie: the language you're using, your posts, the tone) doesn't match that of a townie in early game interested in breaking the narrative.

[Slandaar]

Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

I don't see why it matters but in fact I did respond to that.

what about the people on it.

Do you think its a town led wagon or do you think its got scum in it.

Axxle: Don't know
Zakk: Town
TCold: meh town if I were to guess but I don't like guessing.
Mac: scumish

Garmr is quite meh aswell but again I would guess town.

and since you are here, what is the motivation for scum thor to get into a logic fight with you so early in day 1?

Perhaps there isn't any; to be able to think that he as town wouldn't do it is actually very very very hard; perhaps he felt it would be considered normal for it to happen or expected. The point is he wouldn't do it as town.

And his answer or response was 'I would stick with the same methods' which is quite ridiculous you don't just keep trying things which do not work.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.

[Slandaar]

Also, why are you ignoring how revisionist Slandaar is being?
It's not subtle.

Do show!

I have.

Sorry, I am blind, you know that please direct me to this.

Multiple other players agree it exists...but for some reason are just deciding it is not scummy.

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me. Multiple people thinking it doesn't mean it does exist. Multiple people think aliens have visited Earth, doesn't make it true.

Who are these people anyways?

I didn't respond to tools post purposefully just so you know

The sunglasses make that a town action.

Yeah they do.

Oh...wait.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.

I am quite happy lynching; his response to my case was no sufficient. The misrep argument is also terrible.

I don't really understand why you are asking me this though it doesn't feel right.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Once he gets 4-5 votes, it's not the time to have second thoughts. We might not ever build the necessary momentum to lynch him again, if we miss our chance.

[Maxous]

I feel like I should trust this.

unvote, vote: Thor665

TCold needs to do better with his posts btw.

[Sir Bastion]

Has the site meta changed since I was last here?

Everybody seems to tight lipped on what they are thinking. It's like getting blood from a stone to get thoughts from most of you.

I completely disagree with Slandaars case against thor and I am mixed on the Albert's case against Thor. I was initially going to discard Albert's case that Thor was acting out of form for his townplay as my brief experiences playing with him had him down as one of those force of nature players who played every game the same way, sticking close to his namesake head butting everybody norse style. (I think I've only had one game with him, but he might have been in another game with me that was lost in the great tiger crash of 2012)

But I quick recap of that game does show some truth to Albert's comment that town Thor does not appear to normally make calls to lynch. But the game I played him with was a unique circumstance. So I will review the three games Thor provided.

I am somewhat settled by Slandaars responses, I would not consider him town yet and I still do feel he is putting far too much blame on thor for the battle of the walls which I still disagree with him on.

other major suspicions I have is Axxle, Macros and Guthrie. Sadly the lurking/absence of Axxle has stalled any development on him and guthrie has gone and done the same. Macros I feel looked very bad for his actions involved the Garmr wagon. I dont see why a town player needed to be pushed to make his vote and I find the whine post he followed it up with to be very suspicous.

I guess outside them most people fall into the null catagory, the closest I have to people I would be comfortable in saying they are playing like town is only Iceninja. I dont think there is much of case for Garmr to be scum, but he hasnt reassured me as a competent player and toolenduso appears well meaning but neutral. He does confirm with Thor that Slandaar misrepped him, but he doesnt act on it, instead keeping his vote on albert. Which is curious.

Frankly if the mod has more posts then you then you then you are failing in participating as a town player so there are five players in this game that are being useless and need to get their acts together.

[toolenduso]

Alright I virtually never say things like this, but I think the activity level needs to take a tiny step back. We have several players with fewer than 5 posts, and Thor with 41. Some of which being fairly hefty posts.

I kind of agree with this since we have several players who haven't posted much and therefore have a ton of stuff to cover when they come back. So I'll post once more today. Still have to go through the meta links myself.

That being said...

UNVOTE:

[Thor665]

Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum.

Yes, I do.

Let's just go to the first game I linked.

All your votes are currently useless. Either start making *amazing* cases on your chosen target, or move somewhere useful.
Sheeping me is allowed.

There's one.

I'm going to go ahead and lob 'not reading thread' as another reason people should sheep me on Slaine.

There's another.

What other lies are you basing this case on?

[Thor665]

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.

You disagreeing with it fails to make it untrue.
Flail more.

I feel like I should trust this.

unvote, vote: Thor665

Did *you* read the games to back up ABR's unproven claim for yourself?
Or are you just presuming he's right - and don't really care?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum.

Yes, I do.

Let's just go to the first game I linked.

All your votes are currently useless. Either start making *amazing* cases on your chosen target, or move somewhere useful.
Sheeping me is allowed.

There's one.

I'm going to go ahead and lob 'not reading thread' as another reason people should sheep me on Slaine.

There's another.

What other lies are you basing this case on?

That's page 30. Being certain of something on page 30 is a long shot from page 10, with the amount of information we've both seen from Slandaar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It was also on Day 2, after a night kill. And even the language you use there is more passive than the one here. All in all, if you look at your early Day 1 play in those games, it showcases exactly what I've pointed out about your play.

[toolenduso]

All in all, if you look at your early Day 1 play in those games, it showcases exactly what I've pointed out about your play.

Except for this post in a game where he was town:

I'd like to lynch Z7 or thenewearth right now.
Let's do this and see if Z7 backs up his claimed desires.

Unvote: Aeronaut
Vote: thenewearth

Let's speed wagon this up to L-1 in 12 hours or so. Go, go, go!

There multiple other examples I found in those games of Thor calling for other people to lynch his suspect after D1. I'm also seeing other behavior from Thor consistent with this game, including one moment where he defends a player like me by using an analogy, just like he did with the apple example in this game. Not saying this means he's town, but it's definitely consistent.

Now, ABR's general style was consistent in that meta link he posted as far as him not wanting to give a lot of reasons on people and not contributing much in the way of reasoning for why he voted the way he did.

But now I'm seeing ABR jumping on Slandaar's bandwagon with pretty lame reasoning:

I think Thor is serious about trying to lynch Slandaar. He read the situation, weighed his options, and decided that he could lynch Slandaar.

...

Leading the town like that, from an argument you generated from your own line of questioning, it doesn't help you read into the game.

"Thor thinks somebody is scum, so he's trying to lynch them -- that's scummy!"
"Thor is voting based on things people said in response to his questions -- that's scummy!"

And then asking Slandaar if he's ready to lynch Thor. Why he asked this, I have no idea -- Slandaar has given no other indication than that he wants to lynch Thor. Slandaar responds with this:

I don't really understand why you are asking me this though it doesn't feel right.

Why say this, Slandaar?

Slandaar continues to argue without much solid reasoning:

Well context is required here; Specifically Thor and I arguing logic is pointless. There is more than logic to find scum though for example behavioural patterns.

You use logic to demonstrate why behavioral patterns appear to be town or scum. All arguments involve logic, including your own. Your whole argument against arguing logic is basically just a vague critique you use to say that nobody in the game is making good points except for you. Because you are, as per your own claims, great at catching scum:

...I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct...

... instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong...

This is what I'm getting from Slandaar's arguments: "I am correct, therefore there is no point in arguing against me. Any argument you make against me is useless because it is argued based on logic and not behavioral patterns. A behavioral pattern is defined as something that I see and you don't. Logic is defined as something you see."

To defend myself against the inevitability that Slandaar will claim I had no conclusions in this post, here is my conclusion:

I am willing to consider the possibility of ABR and Slandaar both being scum.

ALL THIS BEING SAID, I am not going to vote for anyone right now because I don't want a lynch before we allow the following players to catch up and hear some more from them:

TCold
Axxle
zakk

[Albert B. Rampage]

The quote says he's willing to lynch one player or another. That's very far away from being certain that one player is scum.

[ICEninja]

Alright so now with ABR's post 219 I finally feel like I'm looking at town ABR. And it's actually pretty convincing. I viewed Thor to be townish but after realizing how much town leading Thor has done while still addressing so little outside of Slandaar (just look how much of his ISO is directed specifically to him, it's insane), I'm willing to consider that Thor might indeed be scum here. I'm not willing to vote for him at this point in time, however.

I'm keeping my vote where it is for now. Not liking Garmr too much. Reading a lot of indecisiveness in his posts and he is all over the place as someone mentioned before... in a post... somewhere around here. The wagon on him is justified and I wouldn't mind his lynch today.

That was me, arguing that people are voting for him being all over the place instead of being scummy. You're incredibly guilty of this, looking for the easiest person to vote instead of actually finding scum. Thanks for finally giving me a read on you.

ABR for instance. I'm gonna sheep ninja on this matter, because i've been thinking the same thing while reading the thread.

You obviously aren't paying attention to his more recent play. He made a very meaningful case against Thor, exactly how town ABR plays, and is in direct contradiction to the reasons you're sheeping me for. Bad bad bad.

Vote TCold

. More from me soon, trying to catch up in pieces will still remembering who is who is hard.

[ICEninja]

As for Albert's post post 252, I'll take a look at Thor's posted games myself and see if this holds true.

If it does indeed hold true Thor probably is scum. I don't even like meta defense as it is, unless it's for something very specific.

As hard as I try to read Slandaar's posts, I tend to gloss over them. This circular argument is starting to piss me off.

Macros is pinging my gut scumdar pretty heavily, particularly for post 224. I'm liking Axxle less and less, and Bastion more and more. Garmr is still the "easy lynch" that scum will try to push and I'm suspicious of everyone voting for him, despite having a complete and total null read on Garmr.

[TCold]

You obviously aren't paying attention to his more recent play. He made a very meaningful case against Thor, exactly how town ABR plays, and is in direct contradiction to the reasons you're sheeping me for. Bad bad bad.

Vote TCold

. More from me soon, trying to catch up in pieces will still remembering who is who is hard.

It started somewhere around the time of my post. I planned to make a detailed analysis of why people might be scum by rereading the thread. Making notes and all, but gave up after a couple of pages because it took me ages, so my post at the end was slightly rushed, because it was around 4am my time and i was getting tired. I didn't see anything that nobody else had mentioned before so i kept my post short.

Now i did check out the case on thor that ABR is putting forward today. And it's suspicious as hell. You mentioned it yourself as well. You beat me to it actually.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm suspicious or Thor is suspicious?

[TCold]

Thor.

[N]

Vote Count 1.08

TCold

(1) ICEninja

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(4) Axxle, zakk, TCold, Macros

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(2) Thor665, Sir Bastion

Thor665

(3) Slandaar, Albert B. Rampage, Maxous

Macros

(0)

Maxous

(0)

GuthrieGov

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(0)

Axxle

(0)

Not Voting:

toolenduso, GuthrieGov

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

[Garmr]

@Tcold
Just a couple of questions and then feel free to ask me some.

1.What do you think of the scuffle between Slandaar and Thor.(I know you think Thor is suspicious but can you point out certain points.)
2.Do you have any scum reads on people no one has mentioned and why?
3.What's your current read of Tool since you didn't like him earlier but you haven't mentioned him since. So what helped confirm/change your read on him.

[ICEninja]

See now that just seems weird to me. You hardly commented on ANYTHING in your post 227. You justify your vote on someone using a comment that in fact should prove the opposite, support my case that has since been completely 180'd, then completely echo my opinion on the Slandaar/Thor debacle.

And now you're totally sheeping my opinion of Albert's recent change in play and his point against Thor.

I'm having a difficult time eloquating (I feel like this should be a word. Pretend this is a word.) why, exactly, I feel this is so scummy but I just don't feel any genuine opinion coming from you, just parroting. And now that you're caught up you're still doing the same thing.

As for the 3 games Thor posted, the first one isn't even relevant. He replaced in on page 24, and just looking through it feels like he talked to a lot more people than he has been here. Sure Thor is addressing other things besides Slandaar, but I feel like Thor hasn't really pursued any line of reasoning other than Slandaar=scum for a majority of this game.

Ran out of time to analyze the other 2 games. I'll try to finalize an opinion of Thor tomorrow.