Animal Crossing Mafia: Game over

[Yamahako]

No, it either confirms Lowells sanity, or else if the person is something neutral, we know Lowell is lying.

You're advocating the lynching of a townie, to prove the pretty proved cop? I can sort of see a point regarding the sanity- but that will likely work itself out when someone is killed that Lowel has investigated.

[Cloud]

And it doesn't work if Lowell is mafia and knows who's innocent anyway.

[IH]

You're advocating the lynching of a townie, to prove the pretty proved cop? I can sort of see a point regarding the sanity- but that will likely work itself out when someone is killed that Lowel has investigated.

Did I say lynch? No I did not. I said "reveal his result". Everyones fear is a confirmed innocent will be killed. If s/he is killed from a nk, then Lowell, if he IS a cop, knows his sanity.

[StallingChamp]

Vote: IH

. I cannot believe that you are honestly not understanding this. Seems more like scum trying desperately to push something to me. Let's go over what's wrong with this:

1) Sanity will sort itself out in due time. No need to risk a confirmed innocent's life now.

2) I know this is REALLY OUTRAGEOUS, but Lowell could be LYING SCUM *gasp*. Yes, Mafia do lie sometimes, and he can feed us innocent after innocent after innocent.

3) What if the innocent he has in on the Doc or something?

[TBuG]

Okay, I think IH is definitely scum. We should not still be discussing this.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote IH

[IH]

= | I get the town does not approve, but if you're going to accuse me of it, you're going to accuse me right.

If you didn't notice, Yamahako most definitely twisted what I was saying into something else, and waited until everyone else looked at it. Seriously. Do you

Really

think it's scummy that I suggest that Lowell reveal his result as a

cop claiming for poor reasons

.

Do you believe that this is a scumtell, all you people on the IH wagon, or are you just mindlessly bandwagoning because it looks like a good reason.

I'm going to look over the last few pages.

[Kison]

If you didn't notice, Yamahako most definitely twisted what I was saying into something else, and waited until everyone else looked at it.

Well, he did mis-word it. You're not advocating a lynch, you're advocating getting an innocent night-killed.

[Kison]

Here's an unofficial vote count.

Lowell(1) : ubertimmy
Kison(1) : IH
ubertimmy(1) : ~N9V~
IH(5) : PBuG, Kison, Yamahako, Rand Althor, StallingChamp
ac1983fan(3) : Toaster Strudel, OverTheUnder, ChannelDelibird
Twito(1) : Lowell

Not voting( 8 ): mole, Cheesefan, Twito, Jules, Wizardcat, Fircoal, ac1983fan, Cloud

Requesting prods for: Mole, Cheesefan, Fircoal

[IH]

so who else do you think is going to get killed at night? Seriously. If you'd go back, that's just a counter argument for why it's notbad/bad for the "confirmed innocent" to be night killed.

He gets nightkilled, we get more information about Lowell. He can't keep giving us innocent investigations. = / I for one do not choose to believe, and would still like everyone to pay attention to post

231

[StallingChamp]

Do you believe that this is a scumtell, all you people on the IH wagon, or are you just mindlessly bandwagoning because it looks like a good reason.

Yes. I believe only a scum would insist that the cop reveal an innocent (presumably in no danger whatsoever) on Day 1. Mentioning it once could be seen as a mistake, but insisting after we have proved its bad...

[IH]

This is just a personal meta. I don't believe claimed cops right off the bat if they claim for no reason.

Good

Reasons for claiming cop.

You're about to be lynched
You have discovered enough innocents/scum to break open the game
you're in one of the final days
counterclaim

Why Lowells has claimed

Tries to get someone else to claim cop
No one does
wants bells
claims

I do not find this important enough to claim. I do not believe a real cop would out himself for no reason like this. I'm not believing him. If we get him to reveal results now, he cannot change them, and I believe somethings going to give eventually.

You can lynch me for this poor reason, and maybe I'm just being stubborn, but I'm not retracting anything I've said.

[IH]

EBWOP

that good should be on the same line as reasons.

Like

Good

reasons for claiming cop

[Kison]

Lowell didn't claim because he thought there was no cop out there to counter claim. He claimed only after everyone jumped down his throat for suggesting the notion. He wanted to make sure the bells went somewhere safe. Stupid? Sure.

But there has been no counter-claim, and that plays in his defense to a large extent. We therefore have to believe him for now.

Yet you want to have him reveal an innocent to

prove his sanity

. Sure, it may very well work, but how would it be any different now than if Lowell had not claimed and kept the results to himself?

And while it would prove his sanity, again, that would come to his attention in the future when someone he investigated was killed, which is pretty likely to occur by mid-way through the game.

Then you'd say, "well he switched up his targets, and he's lying". Well guess what? We can't really prove whether or not he's lying without lynching him. If he's scum, he knows who's innocent, and could

easily

fake cop. If he's cop, well, same deal, except he didn't know the alignment before hand.

So your proposition is extremely flawed, and the fact that you are unwilling to accept it as such is just another factor that is playing against you.

[TBuG]

Kison basically sums up what I'm thinking.

[IH]

You pretty much admit it makes no difference if the person is not night killed. This may be viewed as bad play on my part, but I'm going to be stubborn this game, to try and set a precedent, mmk?

Why would he ask for a cop claim, if he really is the cop?

This is irrational. I doubt scums going to openly claim cop if someone asks... This is the main reason I do not believe Lowells claim, along with I think his suggestion was crappy in the firstplace.

If I do no believe him, how am I going to try and have it proven/disproven to me?

Put him through the cop paces. His investigations, his results, etc etc.

A lack of counterclaim on day 1 does not confirm him, or move me a bit on him. I've already stated my reasons for that. It's a good reason to claim, sure, but I wouldn't do it. I'd try and get a few days results out before being lynched....

I'm not pushing for a Lowell lynch at the moment. I'm pushing for some reassurance about Lowell.

One last question to the town, and I refuse to respond anymore of the same, unless something relatively different comes up.

Do you think that outing the one of the towns most powerful tools would be worth MAYBE the scum getting ahold of TWO extra bells, especially when each player can only hold TWO items and can only use ONE of them a night. Especially when it's just a

chance

from around 1/5?

[Cloud]

I echo IH's disbelief at Lowell's cop claim. I've already said my thoughts on this, the whole ploy with suggesting a plan and then going against the town's opinion. I am not going to believe his claim right now.

However IH, there's no reason why we have to prove/disprove his cop claim right now. He's not advising a lynch, nor misleading the town at the moment. We know he claimed cop. We can believe it or not believe it. Whether he is genuine or not doesn't matter. We can push for reassurance if he does something harmful to the town, but right now he's harmless.

Revealing his investigations won't tell us a thing. Sure, if he's telling the truth, and we lynch his innocent, then we figure out his sanity. If he's not telling the truth, then he knows who's innocent, and it's just another way for the scum to kill a townie. Sanity vs. lost townie. Hmm.

Do you think that outing the one of the towns most powerful tools would be worth MAYBE the scum getting ahold of TWO extra bells, especially when each player can only hold TWO items and can only use ONE of them a night. Especially when it's just a chance from around 1/5?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking with this.

[TBuG]

If you're asking whether or not Lowell should have claimed, HELL no.

[IH]

I'm asking.... do you think that, if Lowell is really the cop, he actually weighed the risks, and different things to gain, like I just did?

You'll find it's most likely he either didn't/didn't care.

Also, if half the town make a will giving all the bells to lowell....

bah, whatever.

[Cloud]

Yes, I think Lowell claiming cop was a terrible idea. It's the circumstances behind this claim that lead me to not believing he's a cop.

If he's lying about being a cop, then all the more reason to not know his innocent, for fear of this information deceiving the town.

[StallingChamp]

To be clear,

I do not believe the claim.

.

Tht being said, I am pretty much with Cloud on this one, that we might as well act neutral towards him, for now anyways.

As IH insinuated, I strongly suggest we STOP the flow of bells to Lowell. Treat him as unclaimed for the sake of special treatment.

[~N9V~]

I also, do not like the claim. And I do not like this wagon on IH. I agree with him, he should tell us who he looked at last night. All he has to say is who was townie. Even if the townie is a PW, don't tell us. As someone stated earlier, everyone is a confirmed townie to the mafia.

Unvote: ubertimmy

[Kison]

As someone stated earlier, everyone is a confirmed townie to the mafia.

Which is why his telling us who he investigated will tell us

nothing

about whether or not he is scum.

[Lowell]

You pretty much admit it makes no difference if the person is not night killed. This may be viewed as bad play on my part, but I'm going to be stubborn this game, to try and set a precedent, mmk?

Why would he ask for a cop claim, if he really is the cop?

This is irrational. I doubt scums going to openly claim cop if someone asks... This is the main reason I do not believe Lowells claim, along with I think his suggestion was crappy in the firstplace.

If I do no believe him, how am I going to try and have it proven/disproven to me?

Put him through the cop paces. His investigations, his results, etc etc.

A lack of counterclaim on day 1 does not confirm him, or move me a bit on him. I've already stated my reasons for that. It's a good reason to claim, sure, but I wouldn't do it. I'd try and get a few days results out before being lynched....

I'm not pushing for a Lowell lynch at the moment. I'm pushing for some reassurance about Lowell.

One last question to the town, and I refuse to respond anymore of the same, unless something relatively different comes up.

Do you think that outing the one of the towns most powerful tools would be worth MAYBE the scum getting ahold of TWO extra bells, especially when each player can only hold TWO items and can only use ONE of them a night. Especially when it's just a

chance

from around 1/5?

Okay here's the problem. You can't be "neutral" towards me.

I'll be dead in the morning if the DOC doesn't believe my claim

. So while it may make you feel better in the morning to say "oh well, it's not our fault, he did something dumb" it won't leave the town any less screwed.

Don't give me any more bells if it makes you feel better, but I'm still not going to give up the name of the innocent.

unvote, vote IH

for asking. This is idiotic. If I'm scum, I can easily name an innocent, right? So what would that prove.

More troubling is the possibility that I'm insane, or naive. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ABLE TO DETERMINE THIS FROM AN INNOCENT RESULT ARE THE SCUM. If I say "I investigated X, she's town," they'll know whether I'm sane or not, whereas the town (and I) will still know nothing. My claiming may be dumb, but this idea is worse.

What I ask, again, is that the DOC protect me. I don't really care if most of you believe me or not. It's not essential, really. What IS essential is that you not try to sway any potential DOC out there.

Can we just agree that

I'm by no means "confirmed" but the doc should protect me tonight

? How's that?

[Yamahako]

Can we just agree that

I'm by no means "confirmed" but the doc should protect me tonight

? How's that?

Lowell, I'm pretty sure you're the cop. I think you had a really dumb idea, which no one liked, and felt you needed to defend yourself. Day one it doesn't take much to incite a lynch.

The truth is, a real cop should have counterclaimed. Although we'd be in the same situation as your dumb premature claim, we'd be down one mafia. Since no one has come forward, I think you're pretty confirmed as town.

I think the doc should protect you (or not WIFOM is good in this case), but I think you've still put the doc in an awkward situation. And we better hope to hell that mafia doesn't have a tracker