Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[N]

Vote Count 1.04

TCold

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(3) Axxle, zakk, TCold

toolenduso

(1) Slandaar

Sir Bastion

(1) Thor665

Slandaar

(2) Albert B. Rampage, Maxous

Thor665

(0)

Macros

(0)

Maxous

(0)

GuthrieGov

(2) Sir Bastion, Garmr

Albert B. Rampage

(1) ICEninja

Axxle

(0)

Not Voting:

toolenduso, Macros, GuthrieGov

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

[ICEninja]

Is'nt it apparent that he has theory differences to you?
And you're still calling him scummy over it?

If you scroll down just a teensy bit and read the rest of my post you'll see where I've explained why his theory better suits scum.

Mod, your vote count has Guthrie voting for Axxle. Can you double check that?

[Garmr]

@Tools I wrote gg as gunther for some reason I don't know why tralalalala.

[Axxle]

nothing garmr has done has changed my read. so much fluff posting before a few people called him out on it seems scum to me.

but I think zakk's post was pretty scummy. He feels like he's trying to buddy up with me. His sideways attack on toolenduso was weak and singling out three people made it sound like he actually cared more about getting a barometer on our reads rather than finding scum. he's my second choice at the moment.

slandaar's tunneling pretty hard. does he do that as town, as scum, or both?

[Axxle]

does he do that as town, as scum, or both?

(i don't have time to go through his past games atm)

[Thor665]

I would say tunneling is null from Slandaar - if that's all you find him scummy for, it's not a good case.
Not that it's a good case by itself on anyone, as I have yet to meet the player immune from tunneling.

[N]

Mod, your vote count has Guthrie voting for Axxle. Can you double check that?

Guthrie's latest vote did not meet the stated voting rules.

When making votes, please use the vote or bold tags. For a vote (or unvote) to be counted, it must be at the start of a new line.

If I notice someone making this mistake again, I will count it as an unvote only (and will edit the recent votecount to reflect this).

[Sir Bastion]

axxle since you are posting do you feel my reactions are scum motivated or stupid town?

[Slandaar]

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

I already did.

Oh?

1. Agreeing with him
2. Misunderstanding/repping him.
3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.

1. Missing the point (Misunderstanding/repping me)
2. Your opinion but how is this related to overexplaining as you have suggested?
3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

Not succinctly. Overexplaining is a scumtell.

We have had this exact 'debate' before and I was right so what are you trying to accomplish Thor?

Actually I was pointing out how you were being hypocritical and asking you to justify how the over explanation you did is fine and his is scummy.

I knew what you were suggesting. Mine isn't is the answer.

Currently I have 'over explaining things' and 'acting nervous'
But I don't recall claiming that I had brilliant insight into your scumhunting methods.

What? The question had nothing to do with scumhunting methods.

Is this an awkward straw man, or is it going somewhere wherein you'll explain how it's uncool of me to question someone's scumhunting that I don't agree with?

Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Thor is fake scumhunting.

VOTE: Thor

Good luck explaining this away Thorsy.

[Garmr]

nothing garmr has done has changed my read. so much fluff posting before a few people called him out on it seems scum to me.

but I think zakk's post was pretty scummy. He feels like he's trying to buddy up with me. His sideways attack on toolenduso was weak and singling out three people made it sound like he actually cared more about getting a barometer on our reads rather than finding scum. he's my second choice at the moment.

slandaar's tunneling pretty hard. does he do that as town, as scum, or both?

I'm a casual player I like to talk and have fun. Most of the fluff is me describing or asking about game mechanics and word meanings anyway because I'm still learning all the meanings. Also only one person called me out on fluff posting and that was Maxy and I just noticed his question 5 because you posted that. That's still a bit of a exaggeration on your part through. Also that fluff as you call it also gets me a glimpse of someones personality and it helps my gut read.

@maxy
I'm a slow start unless i'm replacing in and have to heaps to work with.

More reads

Slandeer- Post 53 and 71 is just bad logic about apologizing for being late and the fact it was sheeped logic from zakk makes it even worse. I do like the fact his trying to engage thor into one on one discussion and his 114 looks townish. Bad logic in early post leave him at null with a slight read of scum. Haven't read his post 133 yet games moving fast which is good and bad hard to keep up but getting heaps of info.

Toolsend- Town








Wait what you guys want more fine. Tool is town
Pretty much the wagon on him was really bad. His post 33 is good, questioning is a good sign and explains why he questions it to. Post 79 rings town through he could list all 7 people. 81 and 123 are meh.


I find one on one the best way to get information as it's what I excel at when I get bombarded by lots of different players I get confused and I try to handle one at a time and I lose pace.

[Garmr]

Ok read Slandaars post he just went from null-scum to null-town. Even through I think his Tools logic is bad he does make a good case on Thors about how it's not going to go anyway. I can see a town related thought process behind this case unlike the tool case. I never thought of thinking like slandaar and I was thinking Thor as town I don't know what to think of him. I think I'll drop him to a null and see how he responds.

[Macros]

Ok, checking in and read up new posts.

Garmr's just racking up the scummish reads for me now. He's agreeing with entirely too much, the mafia equivalent of nodding politely and smiling just to get through an awkward dinner. It might just be me, but I'm always interested when people change their reads on a player off the back of a post or two. I, admittedly, have a problem of holding onto my suspicions too long and get tunnel vision, but this reversal on Slandaar is very quick, wether he agrees with the case he has put forth or not it all just reads as nicey nicey dog leg humping.

I'm unsure what to make on the lenghty post from Slandaar, on one hand I agree with points of it, but people bossing a game rubs me the wrong way anyway so this could be a residual effect from that. At the minute I still see Thor as town as he's pushing and prodding everyone to get the game going, Slandaar on the other hand I still suspect, going on my gut I'd vote on Slandaar out of these two as of the moment.
However out of Slandaar and Garmr Id go with Garmr, hes just been too nice, and we all know nice guys finish last.
from the phoen so proper post later, but I will be dropping my vote in the next day or two on Garmr unless things change

[Garmr]

Why not drop your vote now???? Also i'm always nice unless someone ticks me off.

[Macros]

Fine you want it you got it

vote Garmr

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote Slandaar

Vote Garmr

Still think Slandaar is scum, however I can get behind a Garmr wagon.

[Macros]

See now this is why I like to hold onto my vote, bandwagon fever two days in.

[Garmr]

Yeh but look how fast that wagons building lol.

[Thor665]

1. Missing the point (Misunderstanding/repping me)

How did I misrep that you agreed with him? Because that is what your point said there.

2. Your opinion but how is this related to overexplaining as you have suggested?

Because you're working hard to have something to say about nothing, and that's why I think you twisted it.

3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

You point was still complaining that he wasn't succinct enough when the points you said should be cut were explanation of why he had his belief;

basically he did this;

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

And you then said 'he's *overexplaining*, why not just say he thinks it's an apple, scummy!'
And my counter there is - why didn't you just say 'he's overexplaining' and vote him instead of doing a line by line breakdown of his post (over)explaining how his post is overexplaining?

We have had this exact 'debate' before and I was right so what are you trying to accomplish Thor?

To understand your thought process.
We also haven't had this exact debate unless the word exact has a different meaning than I know of. We may have had a similar one, but only insomuch as I have doubtless questioned your logic in the past - other than that I doubt there is any connection to a past debate.
Feel free to prove me wrong.

I knew what you were suggesting. Mine isn't is the answer.

How do you define the difference?

What? The question had nothing to do with scumhunting methods.

Then I didn't get the point of the question.
Now that you have my answer anyway...what are you doing with it?

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense

Only if you want to claim that I believe it is impossible to scum read you through analyzing of logic.
Since I believe that is the way to read everyone and is the only type of scumhunting I do, whether or not I have received a bad read on you in the past I am unsure why I would reinvent my entire method just for you in the present.

Good luck explaining this away Thorsy.

Thank you.

[Thor665]

Yeh but look how fast that wagons building lol.

Who are the scum voting you then?

[ICEninja]

Well I'm not voting for either Thor or Slandaar today, this looks too much like frustrated town trying to legitimately scum hunt each other.

Garmr is the easy wagon bait. Possibly town Macros (still unsure, but leaning town now) falls for it then Scumbert the Rampage hops on right on schedule.

More ABR votes please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nice try, Garmr's buddy.

[toolenduso]

Before I vote, I'd like to point out that I think there's a difference between inactivity and lurking.

Inactivity is when you post once and then don't post for a couple days, because you're too busy or you don't care about the game or whatever.

Vote: Garmr

Not sure I like the tone of the double post. It seems like he's trying to minimize the impact of being third on the rvs wagon.

Best post of the game so far.

Vote: Garmr

Inactivity could be lurking, but there's not much evidence for that from zakk right now. Btw, that's zakk's only post.

Then there's this kind of pseudo-lurking where you post enough to not be called a lurker, but you don't say much of substance -- just like a lurker, you're not contributing to the conversation, but you get to escape from the label.

Early in the game, you get away with it because it's the random voting stage and it's mostly silly anyway.

VOTE: Alby B.

Because it's Albert

UNVOTE: Alby boy

I've gotta say Gamr, I don't like the way you wrote that.

Then, as the game progresses, you continue to post things that don't hold much substance. This accomplished through being vague and providing little reasoning.

Don't act like you're familiar with me. I hardly remember you existed.

I think it goes deeper than that.

I don't want to talk about the town tells I've noticed, as that would only advantage the scum, and make people try to meta me in the future. A gut read on Slandaar is the best I can give you right now.

When called on to justify the little you do contribute, you give minimal reasons. Again, you're not looking to draw attention to yourself, because then people will argue against your logic and put you in the spotlight.

Last night, I dreamt that I got quicklynched on page 3 in this game. I'm still re-adjusting.

Given that you announced that you wanted him speedlynched, I'm reluctant to encourage that behavior, given the dream I had last night.

My dream, remember?

This doesn't necessarily preclude voting, because it takes seven to lynch and there are others already drawing attention to their own votes. But it doesn't matter a whole lot who you vote for. Again, you don't want to go into detail about why you're voting these people because it could draw attention to yourself.

Vote: Slandaar

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy in this game, and several posts seemed relatively town, so by process of elimination, I've determined that Slandaar is likely scum.

Unvote Slandaar

Vote Garmr

Still think Slandaar is scum, however I can get behind a Garmr wagon.

In conclusion,

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

.

Secondary post coming with my thoughts on everyone else. Hopefully shorter.

[toolenduso]

First, a voting history for everyone:

ABR: Slandaar, Garmr
Axxle: Garmr
Garmr: ABR, Maxous, GuthrieGov
GuthrieGov: ABR, Axxle, ABR (note: didn't unvote ABR before voting Axxle, so it wasn't counted.)
ICEninja: Sir Bastion, ABR
Macros: Axxle, Garmr (note: first vote on Axxle was unintentional)
Maxous: Thor, Slandaar
Sir Bastion: Macros, GuthrieGov
Slandaar: toolenduso, Thor
TCold: Garmr
Thor: ABR, GuthrieGov, Sir Bastion
toolenduso: ABR
Axxle: Garmr

Unless I'm counting incorrectly, that means Garmr has 5 votes, which is L-2.

On to player-by-player analysis:

ABR: see my last post -- scum read.
Axxle: only three posts, the first of which ignited the "bussing" argument. Has provided some analysis -- neutral read.
Garmr: tied with Thor for most votes so far, but one was in rvs. Has had reasoning for both subsequent votes. Hasn't said or done anything all that scummy -- neutral read.
GuthrieGov: lots of logic in each post, questioned townreads without claiming they were scum, playing relatively aggressively -- neutral-town read.
ICEninja: posts well-argued thoughts, has tried to balance conversation between opposing views (see post 89) -- town read.
Macros: good logic, has argued against rushing to a vote, but did it when he thought it was justified -- town read.
Maxous: not much reasoning behind actions, has mostly questioned other people -- neutral-scum read.
Sir Bastion: claimed bussing early, was able to back it up reasonably later, started asking people if they think he's stupid for some reason -- neutral read.
Slandaar: started by voting based on a flimsy argument, reacted a little defensively when pressed on it, then got all Sextus Empiricus on us by saying there's no value in argument -- neutral-scum read.
TCold: replaced in (thank you for this, btw), started noting town and scum reads -- neutral read.
Thor: has more posts than anyone, very aggressive, very logical, doesn't need much to vote somebody, could be leading so as to avoid suspicion based on lurking or posting without logic, could be town trying to generate pressure and conversation -- neutral read.
zakk: only one post, willing to jump on Axxle's bandwagon on Garmr based on little logic, willing to give benefit of the doubt on inactivity -- neutral-scum read.

Well so much for that post being short...

[toolenduso]

EBWOP

I accidentally wrote Axxle twice instead of zakk the last time. Here's the actual vote history:

ABR: Slandaar, Garmr
Axxle: Garmr
Garmr: ABR, Maxous, GuthrieGov
GuthrieGov: ABR, Axxle, ABR (note: didn't unvote ABR before voting Axxle, so it wasn't counted.)
ICEninja: Sir Bastion, ABR
Macros: Axxle, Garmr (note: first vote on Axxle was unintentional)
Maxous: Thor, Slandaar
Sir Bastion: Macros, GuthrieGov
Slandaar: toolenduso, Thor
TCold: Garmr
Thor: ABR, GuthrieGov, Sir Bastion
toolenduso: ABR
zakk: Garmr

[Albert B. Rampage]

List of activities to consider at this time:

-Discussions about theory and policy
-Gut reads
-Pretending like you have a reason to vote for someone
-Blowing minor anti-town null tells out of proportion

Now how much I will do 3 and 4 depends on my energy in the game. Energy is looking low right now. I contribute with my vote and my gut reads, and you will wait until the game gets serious for me to take a proactive approach. I see you guys literally making things up, making untenable assumptions, that don't make any sense except to reinforce your bias, as an excuse to move the game along, or worst, to seem like you're scumhunting. You might as well be honest like me and say you've got nothing and vote where your heart tells you.

See the callsign under my name. Do you really expect logical reasoning from someone with this callsign? Vote for me if you want, it's completely useless because you're misreading my intent. I'm not attacking anyone because I didn't see anyone do anything that can be even remotely potrayed as suspicious.

"Garmr is the easy baitwagon."

Please, don't insult us.