Newbie 1428 Game Over

[Sakura Hana]

By making me do the work. I'm still waiting for your example of where you crumbed and scum found out. All you gave so far is "that one game, where you were roleblocked and ASSUME scum knew what was up"...

That's not the kind of example you want to be looking for right now.

And why do you care? I'm supposed to be scum in your book arent you?

See, dont ask for things that you're later gonna be going "Why are you trying to convince me?"

[Grimgroove]

Note to others: note how Sakura is in the defensive.

A town doctor knowing what is up would not behave like this but instead attack my play with everything she's got.

Just a little heads up while you're ISOing your way to a Sakura-lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh dear, I'm just going to let my meta talk for me then when others decide who to lynch.

[Grimgroove]

By making me do the work. I'm still waiting for your example of where you crumbed and scum found out. All you gave so far is "that one game, where you were roleblocked and ASSUME scum knew what was up"...

That's not the kind of example you want to be looking for right now.

And why do you care? I'm supposed to be scum in your book arent you?

See, dont ask for things that you're later gonna be going "Why are you trying to convince me?"

I'm simply asking you to help me dig that hole for you.

Whatever I ask of you is not for me making up my mind, it's to help BigTerp and pieguyn to do so.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm simply asking you to help me dig that hole for you.

Oh so you're of the manipulative scum kind.

I'll take note of this for later.

[Grimgroove]

Oh dear, I'm just going to let my meta talk for me then when others decide who to lynch.

Yes, keep self-meta'ing. What are you trying to say? You always behave like scum as town?

This meta stuff can be used either way and is not an argument. It is extremely rarely of use, and definitely not in the way you're trying to use it right now.

[Sakura Hana]

What are you trying to say?

That's for me to know and for you guys to find out. I'm not gonna fall for more of your scummy traps of whenever I answer a question of you, you pin me as "Why are you trying to convince me" BS.

[Grimgroove]

Whatever, even though I feel this conversation has given some extra weight tilting to you being scum in other people's eyes, I think that even in case it didn't, the rest of this topic will speak for itself. I don't need to hide behind some contorted self-meta in order to explain my actions.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't need to hide behind some contorted self-meta in order to explain my actions.

So you think i should just sit there and let myself be mislynched by you?

See this is why you guys left me alive, your plan was to get me mislynched after all.

[BigTerp]

P-Edit: What kind of answer were you expecting? At first I thought something weird was going on because of it, and at that lapse of time I forgot there was a roleblocker, and I was heading home for lunch break, I remembered it midway so I posted when I got home. You can prob. realize I even forgot about pieguy having an innocent on you, considering how I thought grim's "scumslip" implied aptil and me were town.

I just don't understand how you can forget there was a roleblocker. The entire rest of the game after everyone had claimed, is based solely on which setup we were in. There was emphasis on it numerous times by multiple players. You even mentioned it here 643. The more telling thing is you go into great detail here 646 about how Grim could get his partner lynched and then frame you by killing the cop and roleblocking you. Hmmmmm.......

[Grimgroove]

I don't need to hide behind some contorted self-meta in order to explain my actions.

So you think i should just sit there and let myself be mislynched by you?

See this is why you guys left me alive, your plan was to get me mislynched after all.

This is all you got, isn't it?

I rest my case. It's up to BigTerp and pieguyn now. If anyone has got any questions for me, ask them please.

And whatever you do, BigTerp or pieguyn (mostly addressing the second due to what he said before about not voting Sakura), don't vote me out of "can't be arsed, don't see what's the use"-motivations. If you've got something to ask me, ask. If something I did made you think I'm scum, confront me with it. But don't just vote me just because you want to get things over with.

[Sakura Hana]

So here's what I think. Despite grimgroove saying he doesnt need to meta me, he has indeed meta'd me (he'd have to otherwise how he would get me mislynched), and he knows already that I don't react well to pressure, so he left me alive and is pressuring me into forcing me to either "slip" or self-vote/hammer Because I've done it before. And he keeps deflecting back everything with "If you were doctor you were supposed to do this" BS. To BT & pieguy: I really suggest you look at the last 2 links and look at the interactions that led to the self-hammers. That's who I am, that's who I'm trying to stop being... pressure gets to me as either alignment and it's no coincidence he's using that weapon to his advantage.

I'll leave it up to you, I'm tired of arguing with him, hope you guys can make the right decission.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 3.01

Grimgroove - 1 - Sakura Hana
Sakura Hana - 1 - Grimgroove

Not Voting: aptil, BigTerp, pieguyn

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-23 05:31:56)

[pieguyn]

ok I think it's Grimgroove

Now this has suddenly become a story of aptil disentangling himself from me and me offering myself on a platter to get lynched by him, so that he can proceed to put me and you in the same team.

this is what Sakura always does, so this just makes me think she's town kthx

and why the hell are you continuing this 1v1 for so long? you've cornered the scum already. this just screams of scum motivation to get people's votes on Sakura. (last time I got a guilty result on LyLo, I literally just stopped answering questions "cause you're mafia". And in this case you're the one asking the questions, and she's the one answering the questions so you can twist her words around.)

and you still haven't defended yourself against Sakura pointing out the hole in your plan? where the hell did all your confidence go .-.

btw, I was secretly townreading Sakura near the end of D2. the way she posted there just seemed really natural for me and leaked town intent. and before you yell at me for "secretly" townreading someone, keep in mind my top motivation was to survive till D3 and get a result on N2.

I can go into more detail if anyone (BigTerp) wants me to

[Grimgroove]

kthx

A tone you'll regret later. If you'll know my position post-game you'll hopefully realize how aggravating that sounds.
Do you even know what I usually do as town? Did you bother to look that up?

and why the hell are you continuing this 1v1 for so long? you've cornered the scum already. this just screams of scum motivation to get people's votes on Sakura.

Why scum motivation? Why not town motivation?
Remember I am now in a position where I know for certain that aptil and Sakura are scum, so of course my attack on them is going to go as far as it can. I need to use everything I can to convince you she is scum. My disadvantage in this is that I know she is scum, so everything she does reeks of it.

(last time I got a guilty result on LyLo, I literally just stopped answering questions "cause you're mafia".

Exactly the reason why I don't need to meta her. I already know. That's not the point. The point is to make you realize it as well.

And in this case you're the one asking the questions, and she's the one answering the questions so you can twist her words around.)

I'm not twisting anything. The reason I was asking the questions was:

1. Because you already proclaimed a strong disinclination to do so yourself.
2. Because her answers might sway you around.

It's obvious that at the current state of affairs you're going to reach the wrong conclusion. So I need to get more content out of her.

and you still haven't defended yourself against Sakura pointing out the hole in your plan? where the hell did all your confidence go .-.

I already admitted to the plan not going to work, that's why I wanted this 1v1 between me and Sakura to happen now. I hadn't thought of the scenario with me being a roleblocker roleblocking you after aptil's lynch, simply because this isn't the case. I already gave mad props to Sakura for pulling that scenario out of her ass. It showed she's got skill instead of only luck (the doctor-claim working out so well for her).

btw, I was secretly townreading Sakura near the end of D2. the way she posted there just seemed really natural for me and leaked town intent. and before you yell at me for "secretly" townreading someone, keep in mind my top motivation was to survive till D3 and get a result on N2.

I strongly advise you re-read the thread. You turned around 180 degrees after the doctor-claim, decided to believe it, and thus altered your read. This has got nothing to do with Sakura's behavior. This has got everything to do with you not being able to get over her claim.

[Grimgroove]

So here's what I think. Despite grimgroove saying he doesnt need to meta me, he has indeed meta'd me (he'd have to otherwise how he would get me mislynched), and he knows already that I don't react well to pressure, so he left me alive and is pressuring me into forcing me to either "slip" or self-vote/hammer Because I've done it before. And he keeps deflecting back everything with "If you were doctor you were supposed to do this" BS. To BT & pieguy: I really suggest you look at the last 2 links and look at the interactions that led to the self-hammers. That's who I am, that's who I'm trying to stop being... pressure gets to me as either alignment and it's no coincidence he's using that weapon to his advantage.

I'll leave it up to you, I'm tired of arguing with him, hope you guys can make the right decission.

This is an Appeal to Emotion plain and simple.

Does anyone seriously think any town, no matter how emotional, would self-hammer in a LyLo? And even if so: do you seriously expect any scum-plan to rely on that?

I didn't meta you. You are using self-meta and emotional play to run to your defense, two of the scummiest ways of defending yourself.

[pieguyn]

You turned around 180 degrees after the doctor-claim, decided to believe it, and thus altered your read. This has got nothing to do with Sakura's behavior.

in fact my townread on her was quite a bit before her Doctor claim

This is an Appeal to Emotion plain and simple.

If you'll know my position post-game you'll hopefully realize how aggravating that sounds.

I do believe I've used this tone before. just iso me and search for "kthx". suddenly it's aggravating now when it's against you, but not then. this also seems like an AtE

Does anyone seriously think any town, no matter how emotional, would self-hammer in a LyLo?

no matter how emotional, would self-hammer in a LyLo?

would self-hammer in a LyLo?

in a LyLo?

and you wonder why I think you have motivation to twist her words around..

I strongly advise you re-read the thread.

I have. that's why I said I could explain more if BigTerp wanted me to

[Grimgroove]

and you wonder why I think you have motivation to twist her words around..

What the fuck?
She says I'm trying to get her to self-hammer, literally, in 736. LITERALLY.
I didn't twist anything.
This is LyLo, is it not?
So my supposed scum-plan for her to hammer herself, as she portrays it in that post, involves her self-hammering in LyLo.

[Grimgroove]

in fact my townread on her was quite a bit before her Doctor claim

That's not what this post says to me:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5360185

You're even lying to yourself in order to make yourself at peace with a decision that should be obviously wrong. You had your head in the wrong place ever since this day started.

And the kthx is aggravating because it shows the lack of care that will lose us this game.

You haven't re-read the thread. I feel it in what you say. If you had re-read it, you'd know for instance your own altered read on Sakura came after her claim.

You're lazy town. And town will pay the price for it if you don't change that attitude.

[pieguyn]

What the fuck?

oh sry, my miss. just for completeness, my thought there was that Sakura hadn't actually self-hammered in LyLo in any of those links.

That's not what this post says to me:

that's cause I'm apparently a good liar? idk, my intention was to keep my read on her secret so that scum wouldn't make an optimal choice on the NK (read: avoid shooting me). that post follows that intent. the fact that you even tried an argument like this, IMO, showed you fell for it.

You're even lying to yourself in order to make yourself at peace with a decision that should be obviously wrong. You had your head in the wrong place ever since this day started.

...LOL
nice try. I'm pretty sure it's you now. This is an outright scum argument. Meanwhile, what Sakura has said so far fits with just about everything I can remember about her. That's all I have to say.

And the kthx is aggravating because it shows the lack of care that will lose us this game.

no, my actual content shows the apparent "lack of care", not the "kthx" at the end

You haven't re-read the thread. I feel it in what you say. If you had re-read it, you'd know for instance your own altered read on Sakura came after her claim.

another AtE

@BigTerp: what are you thinking? I want to lynch Grimgroove. if you agree with me, let me know and we'll do this

[Grimgroove]

You won't need BigTerp to lynch me. If you want to lynch me, you can already vote me now and aptil will finish the job. GG scum and thanks for all the bullshit.

I'm not going to get into how bad your play is here. It's something to be reserved for post-game (I won't be able to be bothered, IC's job I think). But the way you're defending your own play here is laughable. Keeping someone at L-1 until she claims, all in order to keep your read a secret. As if that read of yours on Sakura would get you shot...

Meh.

You're only fooling yourself into having played well here.

[Sakura Hana]

Eh I wouldn't self-hammer on LyLo as either alignment, that's just stupid regardless of which side you are playing. I pointed out the self-hammers to show that it is very well known that I don't react well to pressure. More by the people that have played with me than others, but there are others that know me due to this as well, so it isn't surprising that Grimgroove's going for that strategy as it makes me easy lynchbait.

Btw just because i'm refuting to continue answering scumgroove's questions doesn't mean I won't answer you BT's or pieguy's questions, you're free to ask me whatever you want.

[BigTerp]

ok I think it's Grimgroove

Now this has suddenly become a story of aptil disentangling himself from me and me offering myself on a platter to get lynched by him, so that he can proceed to put me and you in the same team.

this is what Sakura always does, so this just makes me think she's town kthx

and why the hell are you continuing this 1v1 for so long? you've cornered the scum already. this just screams of scum motivation to get people's votes on Sakura. (last time I got a guilty result on LyLo, I literally just stopped answering questions "cause you're mafia". And in this case you're the one asking the questions, and she's the one answering the questions so you can twist her words around.)

and you still haven't defended yourself against Sakura pointing out the hole in your plan? where the hell did all your confidence go .-.

btw, I was secretly townreading Sakura near the end of D2. the way she posted there just seemed really natural for me and leaked town intent. and before you yell at me for "secretly" townreading someone, keep in mind my top motivation was to survive till D3 and get a result on N2.

I can go into more detail if anyone (BigTerp) wants me to

I have never played with Sakura before, so I have to trust your judgement when you say "this is what she always does" which confirms your believe that she's town.

I've had a much stronger scum read on Grim. Wanted to see him lynched day 2, but no one would hop on board. So if it's between Grim and Sakura, I have to agree with you to lynch Grim.

As far as Sakura goes and my questioning of the whole roleblocker deal, I got to thinking. If Sakura is mafia and plans to play the roleblocker card as to why you get NK'd night 3, then why would she have fumbled with that? As mafia if that's your grand plan it's not something your going to easily forget. But if she's town and truly the doctor, she would be like the rest of us townies and trying to decipher all possible scenarios. I could see her easily getting wrapped up in scenario X while thinking about scenario Y and getting confused, which she started to here 675. I just don't think scum would be as careless with their thoughts.

Now the reamining question is who do we believe is the roleblocker? If we can string them up today, game over!!! Looks like the consenus is Grim is acting like the roleblocker?

[pieguyn]

I'd bet Grim is the roleblocker, cause he conveniently suggested a plan that would allow him to win if he was the roleblocker

even if we don't get the roleblocker today, IMO a Grim x aptil scumteam makes the most sense so we can still lynch the other one on D4

[Sakura Hana]

Now the reamining question is who do we believe is the roleblocker? If we can string them up today, game over!!! Looks like the consenus is Grim is acting like the roleblocker?

Let me help you out

5 players, 2 conf towns.

From the remaining 3 there's 1 town and 2 scum, if you believe I'm the town one then the remaining 2 scum are obvious and who the roleblocker is doesn't matter as the remaining scum will be lynched tomorrow anyway. If you think I'm scum then you should be lynching me.

P-Edit: what pieguy said.