Newbie 1428 Game Over

[Grimgroove]

I want to hear all the claims before proceeding.

@pieguyn

, if you're town (slim chance though), you HAVE TO remove your vote. Sakura Hana lying is still a possibility, even with your claim.

[Grimgroove]

pieguyn - Town Cop
aptil
BigTerp
Sakura Hana - Town Doctor
Grimgroove - Vanilla Town

[Grimgroove]

As a reminder:

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

With the claims we're looking at now, we're either in B, C or 2 unless BOTH Pieguyn and Sakura Hana are lying.

If we're in C, the town tracker will claim and will fight it out with Pieguyn. Sakura will then be confirmed town.
If we're in 2, I know for a fact someone else will be claiming cop because Pieguyn's results don't check out, I'm not scum.
If we're in B, meaning Pieguyn isn't lying, it means Sakura is lying and is scum together with Aptil.

If both pieguyn and Sakura are lying and they're in a scumteam, some other town PR will pop-up, like a jailkeeper or a bulletproof. This person will then have to explain though why they didn't respond to Sakura's doctors claim, if their own PR made a doctor's existence impossible. Would be an unforgivable mistake if they let that slide.

I think pieguyn is scum for not taking into account the option we are in column B and is rushing people to vote in LyLo, so I'm thinking either he's scum together with Sakura, or he's scum together with whoever doesn't claim Town Tracker (or Town Cop).

[Grimgroove]

If pieguyn isn't lying about being a cop, that means BigTerp is indeed town, and that Sakura and aptil will be quickhammering me.
If they don't, it also means pieguyn is lying.

[Grimgroove]

But if pieguyn isn't lying, he'll remove his vote as soon as he sees this.

[Grimgroove]

pieguyn who is online now.

[pieguyn]

look at you, flailing cause you just lost and you don't know what to do. so cute =w=//

I'll just say this now: I'm not going to go second guessing myself and removing my vote. there is literally no way I can convince myself at this point that Sakura is lying, because if aptil claims anything, my mind will just deduce he's lying instead as there's only VTs left which for me would just confirm Sakura and he didn't counterclaim Doctor. since there is no way I can think Sakura is lying, I prefer to just end the game now if I'm really wrong instead of making it drag out for longer, kthx. instead, I'll just say if you're really scum Sakura then it'll be my fault either way if we lose and ggs

plus claiming Doctor as mafia and hoping NO ONE WILL COUNTERCLAIM DOCTOR OR ANY ROLE THAT'S INCOMPATIBLE WITH A DOCTOR (hell they wouldn't even have to claim immediately. they could just wait till LyLo cause if they die before then it'll be obvious) is a complete crapshoot and you'd have to be insane to even try it. if that's the case, since no one counterclaimed Doctor, there'd be no Doctor and it'd have to be setup B. as mafia, there'd be way too many ways that plain could fail and it'd be more likely to succeed just claiming VT. it seems more likely for me that Sakura is telling the truth and mafia just roleblocked her instead of killing her.

btw, in your first post

I am now in the luxurious position to know for a fact that pieguyn is lying. If nobody else claims Cop or Tracker, this means that pieguyn and Sakura Hana are the scumteam. This will be made clear if someone else claims another town PR.

this is the nail in the coffin for you. instead of immediately considering all possibilities, you just assume I'm lying right off the bat. all your other 7 or 8 posts just seem like flailing for me =w= it doesn't help I was scumreading you on top of this.

pieguyn, I assume you didn't crumb your PR or N1-result?

hell no
1. if mafia figures it out then gg I'm done
2. even if town sees it, a single innocent result won't help very much. instead I'd just try to play such that CD won't get lynched

I'm really sorry if you're town. but I know I won't be able to see it if you are ;w;

[Grimgroove]

If you're town, you need to unvote and give this more time.

The nail in the coffin for me was indeed an intial reaction, but put yourself in my place. I'm a town VT seeing a cop claim I'm a confirmed scum. Of course my first reaction will be one of you lying. It's only on second glance I realized you might also be mistaking.

If you are town your apologies are worth shit. There is no reason at all to rush this at this point.

[Grimgroove]

plus claiming Doctor as mafia and hoping NO ONE WILL COUNTERCLAIM DOCTOR OR ANY ROLE THAT'S INCOMPATIBLE WITH A DOCTOR (hell they wouldn't even have to claim immediately. they could just wait till LyLo cause if they die before then it'll be obvious) is a complete crapshoot and you'd have to be insane to even try it. if that's the case, since no one counterclaimed Doctor, there'd be no Doctor and it'd have to be setup B. as mafia, there'd be way too many ways that plain could fail and it'd be more likely to succeed just claiming VT. it seems more likely for me that Sakura is telling the truth and mafia just roleblocked her instead of killing her.

It's risky but Sakura was in a pickle at that time. It's not completely insane to draw that card. Even if there's a counterclaim, there can still be discussion about who's telling the truth + remaining scum knows where the PR is.

Saying scum would never claim a Town doctor is just nonsense, and it's this assumption that leads you to voting me now.

If you're telling the truth, you have to entertain the possibility at least temporarily.

Nothing stops you from putting down that vote on me at some later stage.

If you don't and end up being town, you ruined this game in a realm that your apologies cannot reach. FUCK

[pieguyn]

more time for someone to inadvertently vote someone else so you all can quickhammer?

seriously, just knowing and being familiar with how I think, I know that at this point, I won't be able to vote Sakura ever. if I"m wrong at this point, then there's no point in waiting and possibly letting something stupid happen when it'll just be the same end anyway.

whatever.

unvote

you'll see what I mean

BUT NO ONE VOTE ANYONE UNTIL EVERYONE HAS A CHANCE TO SAY SOMETHING

[Sakura Hana]

I healed pieguy N2.
Thoughts and vote later i need to head to work atm.

[Grimgroove]

Good.

If you're telling the truth (which I'm slowly believing you are), and BigTerp checked out town, then we can always agree on lynching aptil in a first stage.

In the next night, Sakura Hana needs to protect you, and you need to promise to check Sakura Hana.You CANNOT deviate from this plan.

If you die, it means Sakura didn't protect you and me and the remaining town (probably BigTerp) can lynch Sakura.
If you don't die, you can see with your own eyes Sakura is scum.

BUT DON'T CHECK ME8 Because that will simply allow scum to kill me and leave you with empty hands and a possible confbias.

There's really no way to lose this if you're telling the truth and we're in column B.

[Grimgroove]

^ this was directed at pieguyn

[Grimgroove]

Pieguyn, if you're telling the truth (in attendance of further claims), this is what needs to happen:

1. We lynch aptil. You can live with that, even with your current belief that Sakura Hana is town.
2. We agree on the following: You check Sakura Hana in the night. Sakura Hana protects the Town Cop in the last night.
3a. You survive and have a check on Sakura. No matter what happens, even if scum goes for the no-kill or the BigTerp-kill, you'll have information that allows you to decide on me or Sakura.
If you check me you don't have this guarantee of a result, because if in that case scum decides not to kill anyone, we find ourselves in the same pickle as we are in today.
3b. You die, but town-win is imminent because Sakura didn't protect you, essentially meaning she's scum.

If you can find a way for me, as scum, to use this plan to my advantage, please let me know and I'm sure we'll find a way to work around that too. But I don't think there is.

This is all me assuming you're town of course.

[pieguyn]

ok thanks for sharing that plan lol

If you can find a way for me, as scum, to use this plan to my advantage, please let me know and I'm sure we'll find a way to work around that too. But I don't think there is.

it could still be you/Sakura, so it really comes down to deciding whether to lynch you or aptil first.

mb I'm just paranoid cause last time I played a game it got to 5p LyLo, I held off on voting, and then someone voted me before I had a chance to defend myself giving scum the quickhammer and the win. orz

If you die, it means Sakura didn't protect you and me and the remaining town (probably BigTerp) can lynch Sakura.

yeah I investigated BigTerp and he was town. <_>

I healed pieguy N2.
Thoughts and vote later i need to head to work atm.

for god sake don't fking vote yet

[Grimgroove]

it could still be you/Sakura

You know how much I've been on her case throughout this entire game. I think a simple re-read of this topic will convince into letting go of that idea.

I agree with the nobody voting-plan right now. aptil and BigTerp need to come in and claim first. Then we can start working things out in a more organized manner.

[pieguyn]

I'm fine with lynching aptil first

[Sakura Hana]

Well first of all it's impossible for there to be a Tracker, because if there was i'd be dead already, explained below.
Me being alive means 2 thngs, either scum is dumb, or there's a roleblocker which means scum left me a live for wifom while roleblocking me so the kill would go through regardless.
The former isnt possible (from my PoV grim and aptil are scum atm unless pie is lying and i dont think neither grim or pie are dumb to not kill a claimed PR in that setup)
The later is more possible, which means scum roleblocked me while trying to take a potshot at the cop before he could out any info.

So yeah, for the time being imma take pieguy and bigterp as conftown, and imma meta dive on grim to see how he plays as scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Another scenario tho... let's assume that grimgroove is the last remaining scum after today, if we lynch aptil and he flips goon, what are the chances of grimgroove being a roleblocker and roleblocking me while killing pieguy?

You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase.

From the sample role PMs.

We gotta take all possibilities into account.

[pieguyn]

*shakefist*
I knew something seemed horribly wrong > <
I need to stop trying to think when I'm so tired.. will post again tomorrow

[BigTerp]

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

Obviously vanilla townie here.

Since we've had no counterclaims (still waiting to hear from aptil though) here is how I see it. Sakura claims doctor and pie claims cop. If we are trying to determine if anyone fake claimed there HAS to be a counterclaim somewhere. At this point the only thing aptil could claim to throw a wrench in all of this is town tracker. But I think Sakuras explanation of why there isn't a tracker makes sense. Mafia needed to kill the cop last night and had to roleblock the doctor hoping to kill the cop. Cheery made a good choice given his play this game.

Basically it's a 50/50 chance we lynch the roleblocker today. Grim or Aptil, take your pick. Aptil is going to have to claim town tracker to keep scums chance of a win alive, correct? Now if that's the case that means pie fake claimed and it's a pie/grim scum team. I guess I could be thrown in there as well since pie found me as town. But knowing that I'm a townie, why would pie quickly vote his scum partner after a convincing claim? It would open up the possibility of a quick lynch which I don't think mafia would want to risk. I think the claims are 100% accurate at this point. Which means there is a mafia roleblocker left. If mafia thought this through the roleblocker would be the one to claim tracker, which will be aptil. That way they survive the lynch, can roleblock the doctor and kill the cop.

[Sakura Hana]

BT: The only possible fakeclaim for scum atm is Cop, because Tracker implies that I would be dead and they would be found out easily.

The fact that grim offered that plan is bothering me because from his PoV if he's roleblocker he can just get his partner lynched today and then frame me because the cop would die after roleblocking me.

Most probably this will become a fight between aptil and pieguy regardless of aptil's alignment because:

If he's town then the remaining scum is pieguy who is fakeclaiming so aptil's the other PR.
If he's scum there's no other way for him to avoid getting lynched without fakeclaim.

[BigTerp]

Another scenario tho... let's assume that grimgroove is the last remaining scum after today,

if we lynch aptil and he flips goon, what are the chances of grimgroove being a roleblocker and roleblocking me while killing pieguy?

You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase.

From the sample role PMs.

We gotta take all possibilities into account.

100% chance if we lynch the mafia goon today that the other one is a roleblocker. 50/50 chance on who we vote today that we string up the roleblocker. Unless I'm seriously missing something, I don't see any other scenarios playing out.

I will question why your asking what the chances would be if we lynched the mafia goon today that the remaining player would be the roleblocker? Since your claiming doctor and believe we are in

2

, you should know there is a roleblocker this game.

[BigTerp]

Sakura - how does there being a tracker imply that you would be dead?

[BigTerp]

Sakura - how does there being a tracker imply that you would be dead?

Couldn't the tracker have targeted a townsperson each night and got zero information?