Open 530 "WSoB" (Stack the Deck): GAME OVER
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Ok guys, caught up. (HI SAKI, SAKURA, TNE, DP/EAGLE <3)
I find Venrob's reaction to the self-vote EXACTLY what we should be looking for. It was a dirty, opportunistic jump on the first thing that could be called scummy.
Nevermind. Hiraki took the words out of my mouth.
Which reminds me, I agree with this 100%In post 116, Hiraki wrote:Manipulation of scum tells.
Ankamius did more with his first post than Sakura has done with her entire ISO (sorry, love, but it's not good). Not only that, but Sakura's whiteknighting of Venrob was like a flashing neon sign.In post 41, Hiraki wrote:However, you [Venrob] are trying to twist it, as any scum would, to make it look scummy
Top scum reads: Venrob and Sakura Hana
Ok reads list, here we go:
Alduskkel - null
Ankamius - town
Brian Skies - town
DoctorEagle - null (Post more honey bunches! There's two of you, no reason to not be posting more by now.)
EspeciallyTheLies - so town <3
Hiraki - town (I have to be honest and say the last game we played together left a very sour taste for you. However, the distinct difference in your play style here from your scum play in that game tells me you're probably town. Or I could be wrong and you could piss me off again. Time will tell but I'm liking what you've done so far.)
JacobSavage - null (Why no content?)
pieguyn - towntowntown
Sakura Hana - scum
thenewearth - null
Venrob - scum
Viera Assassin - nullArt is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Self-voting at L-1 is scummy. Self-voting in LYLO is scummy. Self-voting in RVS is a trap set for scum, and Venrob took the bait hook, line and sinker. Aldu, are you willing to look at this from all angles?
Also, I'd like to say, RVS != information. RVS is fucking horrible. It's the reactions to RVS that carry the gold. Using an RVS vote on someone else does not give more information than voting yourself. It gives the same exact amount, depending on who reacts to what in what way.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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When I first read the thread, yes. I did, at first. Except Brian wasn't trying to push a lynch based on something that was actually town-motivated as hell. I got the impression he wasn't paying too much attention until later.In post 148, Alduskkel wrote:ETL, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy? Also, Brian voted for Ankamius, too, do you think that was scummy?
Here's the thing that bugs me. There's few scum who bus hardcore D1 and actually seek to run their partner up to L-1 in the first 10 pages. Their first duty is to help their partner mislynch. While obvious defense of them is a stupid idea, Sakura never comes out and says if she thinks Venrob is town. In fact, when pressed for an overt stance, she plays games and tells people to run around the thread looking for hints. She attempts to validate Venrob's reasoning instead. Two different actions that have the same intended outcome, which is to diffuse the wagon on her partner. If she was town, she would be looking for Venrob and Ank's intentions and giving clear explanations of her reads (like pieguy, like me, like hiraki, etc).
An inability to explain the reasons behind one's actions is a huge scumtell, imo. It tells me they don't actually have reasons and need to fabricate them. Sakura's "explanations" comes off disingenuous and flippant.
P-edit: Sakura, there's a difference between bait and a scumslip.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Self-voting as town, ESPECIALLY when it's to lynch yourself, is the dumbest fucking thing ever. It is against the spirit of the game, and a whiny thing to do. Not to even mention, against your wincon. You are showing me something YOU do, that MOST PEOPLE DON'T. What you're telling me with this post is that you are terrible as town. I don't know about others here, but that is horrible play. As town, it shouldn't matter if you get lynched or die, as long as you contribute as much as possible to the goal.In post 156, Sakura Hana wrote:
Yeaaaah, about thatIn post 147, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Self-voting at L-1 is scummy.
Guess that's why I'm a global scum read.
Regardless of all that, it doesn't even apply here!
Somebody asked me something I didn't answer and I thought I did but I don't know (I'm mobile-ish at the moment). Do I think Venrob genuinely thinks it was scummy to self-vote in RVS? I dunno but I think that'd be pretty stupid considering the obvious intention behind it. At least it was obvious to me. Which is why when Brian (or maybe it was someone else, but I think it was Brian) had a town-read on Ank on page 2, it didn't ping me as something like that normally would. I almost posted about that.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Something I always find suspicious is early town reads with no clear foundation. When I first read that post, I was like "whaa..." and made a note about it. After finishing the thread, and having had some time to think about the motivations behind several posts, I realized that you saw the same thing I did. Because your town read had a verifiable source, it isn't as scummy as it would be if you had no reason to call someone town based on the posts in the game to that point. Doing so would imply you have other knowledge. This is an open setup, so it's not like there are hidden PRs beyond whatever the mafia chose and whatever the town rolled in turn. Even then, the information one has to start the game is the same unless you are scum or the traitor, and the outcome there is the same as well.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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At that point, I could see a reason why you thought Ank was town, so your read made sense. I could point to a post and say, "That's why Brian thinks Ank is town". If you came out with a town read that I couldn't go back in the thread and figure out why, then I'd wonder why you thought so. Notably, scum have the most town reads early game, in an effort to gain town cred by either buddying town or by later being able to say "See? I told you we shouldn't have lynched that person." It's rather transparent, but the tell holds true. Someone with an unjustified town read generally has some other reason to say they think the person is town - because they know who the townies are.In post 163, Brian Skies wrote:
The bold part is interesting to me and it gives me a townread on you (although I can neither affirm nor deny that we saw the same things, I do have confidence in it). Can you explain the underlined part?In post 162, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Something I always find suspicious is early town reads with no clear foundation. When I first read that post, I was like "whaa..." and made a note about it. After finishing the thread, and having had some time to think about the motivations behind several posts, I realized that you saw the same thing I did.Doing so would imply you have other knowledge. This is an open setup, so it's not like there are hidden PRs beyond whatever the mafia chose and whatever the town rolled in turn. Even then, the information one has to start the game is the same unless you are scum or the traitor, and the outcome there is the same as well.Because your town read had a verifiable source, it isn't as scummy as it would be if you had no reason to call someone town based on the posts in the game to that point.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Bingo.In post 181, pieguyn wrote:you're just trying to make up answers to avoid suspicion.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Yes, you did fuck up. You scum-slipped. You fluffed your way through day 1 and attempted a chainsaw defense for Venrob by pointing at Ank. Your posts come off disingenuous and fabricated. You are unable to back up your "reads" with evidence and cannot explain yourself. You see the wagon turning on you and attempt to use AtE to defend yourself.
Where is the town motivation in any of this?
VOTE: Sakura HanaArt is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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HEY DP!! <3In post 133, Sakura Hana wrote:A self-vote means that you're voting for the only person you know is confirmed town (if you're town) hence holds no info,
This is one of the slips I was referring to. By her logic, the only reason self-voting is scummy, and therefore voteworthy, is because the person voting themself is town and voting the only person they know to be town. But why would you vote for someone you thought was town just doing something scummy?
Also, I thought I had voted Venrob with my first post and realized after the VC was posted that I hadn't.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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This is curious to me, Jacob. I am personally reading him as town.
Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Ok, so, I'm mostly caught up, I've just been stupid busy >< (I'm sorry :[ )
I still feel icky about Venrob, but the claim gives me pause. For today. If he's alive tomorrow, I'll have some questions for sure.
I still want to lynch Sakura, though I'm rather curious why Jacob decided to dodge my question about how my top town read is in his scum list (pieguy). Though, he's in Hiraki's too and I'm sure enough that Hiraki is town. I'd like to hear what they have to say about that.
@JS: Can you please explain why pieguy is in your scum list? (Hiraki, please wait until he answers before giving your own.)Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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I need to know why "pieguy is scum". There are now at least 4 people I can think of off the top of my head who are scum reading him and yet I can't find a single case or even a reason.... Now, all of them cant be scum so can someone please put some effort into it? I have iso'd pieguy and I dont know what I'm missing..Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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pieguy, I voted Sakura due to the way she was defending Venrob. I still think she's probably scum but to be honest, I haven't looked at her for a while. I've been so busy; I need to do more ISOs. I'm having a hard time reading many of the people in this game cuz really, I don't know most of you. However, JS is just making my skin crawl because he says he explained his reads, but I don't see it in his ISO, and I've asked him why you're in his scumlist, still with no response. I would like to see the VC before I vote, but that's where it will go.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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.... not once, but twice.In post 435, DoctorEagle wrote:Brain might be scum too. I need to ISO Brain/TNE.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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Concerned with doing things at night... ? Most mistakes are not alignment indicative. However, some mistakes, like this one, are scumslips.
ISOing Hiraki; be back shortly.Art is cool.-
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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- Joined: February 9, 2013
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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- Joined: February 9, 2013
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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- Joined: February 9, 2013
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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- Posts: 13245
- Joined: February 9, 2013
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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EspeciallyTheLies Survivor
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