Open 530 "WSoB" (Stack the Deck): GAME OVER

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, forgot to UNVOTE: because I don't know wtf is going on yet

[pieguyn]

hi EspeciallyTheLies o/

There's no basis for any vote right now so a self-vote has as much credibility as a vote on someone else.

Credibility aside, what info is a self-vote going to give us?

since you question how a self-vote will give us info, I guess you think it won't give us as much as a regular vote. can you explain why plz?

Post 44

No I'm not saying wagons shouldn't exist, but the Ankamius wagon was better than the Venrob wagon because of the reasons I said earlier and could have POTENTIALLY obtained the reason for his self-vote rather than wagon someone for trying to obtain said info.
Would you build a wagon on an Innocent Child? Serious Question.

I don't think you asked him about the self-vote? if you thought it'd be a good idea to find out the information, why couldn't you just ask him?

How was it a good vote?

VOTE: Alduskkel

If it was a good vote

Then it's a "good vote" so conveniently placed after 2 votes on sakura

opportunistic as fuck man

now that Alduskkel explained his vote, what's your opinion?

actually, you know what

unvote vote: JamesSavage

only posted twice, one was RVS and the other one was the post below v which doesn't have hardly anything in it. Doesn't seem it's same thing as DoctorEagle who apparently missed game start. This makes me think he's lurking on purpose 0.0

Hey I vote myself sometimes on RVS

js

notscience self votes in RVS all the time

js

Someone was busy...

Adesk, why Venrob vote?

[pieguyn]

*

vote: JacobSavage

sorry >_<//

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok guys, caught up. (HI SAKI, SAKURA, TNE, DP/EAGLE <3)

I find Venrob's reaction to the self-vote EXACTLY what we should be looking for. It was a dirty, opportunistic jump on the first thing that could be called scummy.

Nevermind. Hiraki took the words out of my mouth.

Manipulation of scum tells.

Which reminds me, I agree with this 100%

However, you [Venrob] are trying to twist it, as any scum would, to make it look scummy

Ankamius did more with his first post than Sakura has done with her entire ISO (sorry, love, but it's not good). Not only that, but Sakura's whiteknighting of Venrob was like a flashing neon sign.

Top scum reads: Venrob and Sakura Hana

Ok reads list, here we go:

Alduskkel - null
Ankamius - town
Brian Skies - town
DoctorEagle - null (Post more honey bunches! There's two of you, no reason to not be posting more by now.)
EspeciallyTheLies - so town <3
Hiraki - town (I have to be honest and say the last game we played together left a very sour taste for you. However, the distinct difference in your play style here from your scum play in that game tells me you're probably town. Or I could be wrong and you could piss me off again. Time will tell but I'm liking what you've done so far.)
JacobSavage - null (Why no content?)
pieguyn - towntowntown
Sakura Hana - scum
thenewearth - null
Venrob - scum
Viera Assassin - null

[Sakura Hana]

I guess i'll always live up to my title of global scum read, are you debating if to vote me or Venrob because you say we're your top scumreads yet you aren't voting.

[pieguyn]

Sakura answer my questions plz.

just realized, also plz explain this:

Because the reasoning for it even existing is stupid.

first you defend Venrob

Not only to Ankamius but the people voting Venrob as well.

Why are you guys defending Ankamius is a better question.

then you call people for defending Ankamius

Ok since Alduskkel guy here cant take hints and can't read, My comment on RVS votes means that I agree with Venrob and that I think he's town hence the wagon shouldn't even exist.

also you say you think Venrob is town

So we got 2 people going "Hey guys! look how pro-town i am by taking us out of RVS!"

Yeah no

Unvote
Vote: Ankamius

At least Venrob has a reason to be against the self-vote.

but suspect him here? ^ just explain why the flip flop plz...

mb Sakura+Venrob team here? she was really defending him a lot, so for me, all of a sudden suspecting him seems like distancing and not a valid read. 0.0

[Sakura Hana]

The flip flop is based on what Ank said, the thing is that Ank is as guilty, and it was reafirmed that venrob also seems to want to appear town on his next post, due to these events i re-evaluated my read on him.

[pieguyn]

The flip flop is based on what Ank said, the thing is that Ank is as guilty

can you quote what made you think this plz? and plz link exactly where you changed your opinion on Ank.

and it was reafirmed that venrob also seems to want to appear town on his next post, due to these events i re-evaluated my read on him.

At least Venrob has a reason to be against the self-vote.

why this ^ then? here you're implying he voted for a legit reason, instead of just trying to appear town.

also, answer my other questions plz. posting here for convenience ~~

since you question how a self-vote will give us info, I guess you think it won't give us as much as a regular vote. can you explain why plz?

I don't think you asked him about the self-vote? if you thought it'd be a good idea to find out the information, why couldn't you just ask him?

[Sakura Hana]

I really gotta head to sleep so i'm not gonna quote everything.

and plz link exactly where you changed your opinion on Ank.

I didnt? unless going from null to scum is changing my opinion of him.

Both Venrob and Ank have been trying to appear town, but Venrob voted ank for legit reasons (the self-vote) ank's reasoning for voting Venrob doesnt have much of a base.

A self-vote means that you're voting for the only person you know is confirmed town (if you're town) hence holds no info, while voting for someone else not only increases pressure but also makes others take stances, why would you incrase pressure on yourself?

What is there to ask about the self-vote that hasn't been already asked?

Anyway, Good Night.

[Ankamius]

Both Venrob and Ank have been trying to appear town, but Venrob voted ank for legit reasons (the self-vote) ank's reasoning for voting Venrob doesnt have much of a base.

A self-vote means that you're voting for the only person you know is confirmed town (if you're town) hence holds no info, while voting for someone else not only increases pressure but also makes others take stances, why would you incrase pressure on yourself?

I didn't have a base for my vote? Venrob's explanation for his vote on me made the vote itself look a lot less like town-motivated pressure and more like mafia-motivated pressure. That was what I was attacking.

It's also really interesting how a case one of your scumreads made ended up making a significant townread into a scumread.

ETL's entrance looks pretty town. pieguy is also looking town right now.

[pieguyn]

Sakura I thought for like half an hour about what you said and I seriously can't make any sense out of it

I'll just wait for you to wake up and provide more details about exactly what you're referring to instead. www in the meantime, something else I saw

Because the reasoning for it even existing is stupid.

why are you defending Venrob by attacking his attackers? it's just discouraging people from actually scumhunting and, if he is scum, prevents him from having to do anything. it also doesn't change the fact that, if you're telling the truth, at each point, people defended people who they thought were town at the time (even though it's still questionable if anyone was even defending Ank). I fail to see why other people should be suspected and not you for doing the exact same thing, when your method of defense is much worse.

Ok since Alduskkel guy here cant take hints and can't read

ad hominem or whatever it's called

[Brian Skies]

I'm still not understanding the wagon on Sakura.

[pieguyn]

I'm still not understanding the wagon on Sakura.

since when were you not understanding it in the first place? 0.0

after a quick check, I don't see you ever mentioning you didn't understand it. mb I just missed it > <

[JacobSavage]

STOP POSTING SO MUCH!

Seriously I don't have any idea whats going on.

Will get around to reading.

[yabbaguy]

Vote Count 1.2

12 alive, 7 to lynch

Venrob (3): Brian Skies, Hiraki, Ankamius,
Alduskkel (2): JacobSavage, thenewearth,
Ankamius (2): Venrob, Sakura Hana,
Sakura Hana (1): Alduskkel,
JacobSavage (1): pieguyn,

Not Voting: DoctorEagle, Viera Assassin, EspeciallyTheLies,

Deadline: September 28, 3 PM EDT (GMT-4) ((expired on 2013-09-28 15:00:00))
Prodding: thenewearth, Viera Assassin

[Hiraki]

Credibility aside, what info is a self-vote going to give us?

The individual action will do nothing, that is correct. However, the reaction to the individual action is what you should always be looking for anyway in an RVS stage of a game.

Do you think he really wants to lynch himself? Then the vote is a joke. If you think it's a bad joke and that it will lead to nothing, then go ahead and vote him. That's your reasoning and not mine. The problem with that, however, is that we do not lynch for bad jokes, we lynch people we think are scum. Town and scum can make bad jokes so therefore it's useless to go about trying to find something bad/good about the individual action of self-voting.

What is your opinion of the Venrob wagon?

This is good.

Because the reasoning for it even existing is stupid.

Further indulge me on this, please.

If it was a good vote

Then it's a "good vote" so conveniently placed after 2 votes on sakura

opportunistic as fuck man

It was probably the least opportunistic vote in the game. Why does it matter that it was 2 votes after?

You do realize that the only way you can find a good opportunity vote is if the reason completely mimics a vote or if it can be seen that the person in question was only most, if not all, town lynches (and this is weak and can be used to town/scum advantage).

It's not an opinion. It's the hint.

The problem is that she used that as an opinion.

town

How are you getting Sakura town from that?

Saki's

VS' recent surge of activity is kind of shocking. Does anyone find it indicative in any way?

No, but what were you thinking?

Pieguyn: Can you clearly display your reads on Sakura and Adduskel?

^ voted him again after unvoting him.

The former was a random vote. This vote was real.

STOP POSTING SO MUCH!

Seriously I don't have any idea whats going on.

Will get around to reading.

It's only six pages with I think the first two being a tad bit useless. If you're dillydallying now, then I can expect that you'll still be at this point next week?

[Alduskkel]

Venrob is town, based on my knowledge of his playstyle.
Sakura satisfies me for the moment. She bumps up to nullish scum.

Unvote.

But I'll leave a

FoS

.

Also, both people on my "wagon" (if two players are a wagon) are just sort of parking their vote there without actually pushing a case on me or responding to things I've said.
pieguyn is slightly town (I say slightly because it's only page 6), so I'll go with his read, though I don't strictly prefer JacobSavage over thenewearth.

Vote: JacobSavage

Also, about half the playerlist seriously needs to get in here and stop lurking. Not all of you damn lurkers are scum... if you were, it'd be easy.

pedit:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Eh.... was about to go all

Hey Mod!

but apparently I forgot.

VOTE: Venrob

Aldu, I'm concerned for you.

[Alduskkel]

Is anyone here scumreading Venrob who has also played with him before?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Aldu, since you have played with Venrob before, would you mind expanding on your town read of him? I don't think his reaction to the self vote was due to playstyle, since playstyle has nothing to do with the motivation behind one's actions.

[Alduskkel]

I think Venrob goes for a sort of "by the book" style, and considering self-voting scummy falls into that.

[Sakura Hana]

So according to you self-voting isn't scummy?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Self-voting at L-1 is scummy. Self-voting in LYLO is scummy. Self-voting in RVS is a trap set for scum, and Venrob took the bait hook, line and sinker. Aldu, are you willing to look at this from all angles?

Also, I'd like to say, RVS != information. RVS is fucking horrible. It's the reactions to RVS that carry the gold. Using an RVS vote on someone else does not give more information than voting yourself. It gives the same exact amount, depending on who reacts to what in what way.

[Alduskkel]

So according to you self-voting isn't scummy?

It can be anti-town, but I don't think it's meaningfully scummy.

ETL, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy? Also, Brian voted for Ankamius, too, do you think that was scummy?

[Sakura Hana]

Self-voting denies town information from wagon analysis, you know.

Maybe since it's RVS and ns does it as town... hmm

Unvote

While i think about it.