Newbie 1428 Game Over

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for Banksys Flareon.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexi-

Did you notice that Banksy ignored your post here and instead just wasted time posting about mafia theory instead of actual game content?:

If she truly believed in her case she would be able to answer your inquiries, yeah? But she doesn’t, because she is just throwing out baseless attacks.

You wouldn't know if I noticed or not, cause you pointed it out for me.

Hey Banksy I thought you weren't going to respond to me anymore?

Let's say I was lying. I just threw that in there for my own sneaky purposes.

1) How could that possibly have gained me a scum advantage if you hadn't heroically caught it?

You are lying, and you said it as a way to mock me when you called me madam.

2) But you did catch it! So what was my plan supposed to be then?

It proves that you are just making up stuff.
How about you explain how you could have felt really bad about something that never happened eh?

Not really. It could be an honest mistake, mixing up games or something like that. I did hesitate on it myself, but now it's getting tiring.

And also getting back to Dyslexi’s questions to you would be good as well.

Aw, you do lurve me <3
I think these questions have been answered indirectly (if you are talking about the ones in 95?)
In any case I have a clearer stance on Grim now.

I did, before I realized I screwed up the vote count. Not to say it could'nt have still been benefical for mafia to try and swing things my way, which seemed like what was happening. Still need to catch up a bit through the shit storm I missed. But for now.......

Did you find Wolfie suspicious at the time for other reasons?

To recap here is why Banksy is scum:

- She said Big was town, and that his meaning behind his post was obvious, yet said nothing at all when 3 people were attacking him. She also refused to explain this read and why Big’s posts were obvious town (btw when Banksy flips scum this clears Big as town in my view as I don’t see a scumbuddy letting their partner be attacked like that just for them to say after that they were obvious town, it feels more like Banksy trying to get town cred by avoiding a possible mislynch wagon.).
- Big ugly misrep of yours truly by saying I l left my vote on Big for a "long time to come" when in reality it was 4 minutes and I explained that I purposely put the vote in a separate post for clarity.This proves she is not looking at the thread in an objective way and instead just iso'd me to pick out things to attack.
- Resorts to ad hominine attacks.
- Lied blatantly about the “he” thing. Said she felt “really bad” about calling me a he when she never actually did, and when called out on this she refused to concede that she was in the wrong.
- Desperately trying to discredit me by resorting to calling me a newbie and saying that I don't deserve to be an SE. How is this relevant to anything at all?
- Never explained her “reaction test”.
- Makes generalisations about me that she cannot back up when asked to explain them, such as saying that I post meaningless content and that I’m trying to appear town.
- Said she wouldn’t respond to me anymore but then does anyway! Flailing scum is flailing.
- Admits her case is awful, and so she will have to make a new one on me. A townie when proven wrong usually does a rethink on their suspect, but not Banksy no (it’s because she’s not town).
- Makes bad arguments about how people explaining their town reads is anti-town and that people shouldn’t defend said town reads. She also wastes a lot of time waffling about game theory when she could be actually responding to game related questions instead. This also displays her hypocrisy as she has said I post meaningless stuff (never shows us where though) when she is the one actually doing it herself.

Your first two points are the most valid here IMO.

@Dyslexicon What are your thoughts on Banksys/Grim and Raven so far?

I find the whole thing kind of overwhelming and confusing. I can really see both of them having bad points, or rather Banksys having points that she doesn't really back up much, which is strange given her total tunnel vision. One of the things I like the least about Baksys is how she's also saying (paraphrasing) "maybe you're just a bad townie", this without looking at anyone else. And Raven really is picking on eeeeevery little detail and grasping all over the place to the point of it being tiring. Somehow this leads me to think it's more likely they are of same alignment than different, the whole show down isn't really making sense to me. I've entertained the possibility of them both being scum from quite early on, as Cheery (I think?) also mentioned, but they could also be town just totally clashing. I remember being tunneled hard D1 in my first game here (town vs town). Grim has become a townish read (yes, I give away townish reads, spank me), his latest posts are ...rational and good natured (lol, can't explain it better than that right now), but I think I see town motivation. This might not be all that conclusive, but it's what I got.

Not with everything, or course. But more so with her case against you then yours against her. Honestly, I've been going back and reading through the thread since yesterday evening, and it's making my fucking eyes go crossed!!! It has turned into a Raven vs Ban post off and that's a bad thing for the town. There are several players who have been less than active, and if they are scum, the focus on you two allows them to stay on the sidelines even longer.

I'm going to disect the thread yet again, and see what I can come up with.

Do you think there's likely to be scum among Raven and Banksys?

I think what's going on is it's pretty much between Raven/Blankys as scum.

For now, I'll unvote because there's a lot more to read on those two then pie, but I'm not declaring him town just yet.

Both of them seem like scum (but why would mafia argue with eachother)? I think it's highly likely that one of them is scum though.

Why do you think one of them is scum?

I don't like Cat's last post. Sounds mighty opportunistic and he doesn't give me the impression of knowing what's going on.

I second this. Actually
VOTE: Catness

So, I'm going to reply to Ravenpaw again, but I invite everyone to read the game from the start again, and see how she has single-handedly made this topic a big ball of mess.

I think I will when I put on the next pot of coffee.

@Mod: Request Replacement

Oh...

[BigTerp]

Did you find Wolfie suspicious at the time for other reasons?

I did not. I liked the fact that we had 2 people at L-2 early on. Was hoping to generate some movement, squirming, etc.

Do you think there's likely to be scum among Raven and Banksys?

Yes, specifically Raven for reasons I posted here 190. But Banksys post 199 has got me scratching my head. The thread has been a real mess, so I could have easily missed it or forgotten, but I don't remember Banksys suspecting either one of these until just now. She's been on Ravens ass for the past 3-4 pages and then all of a sudden tells us we need to seriously look at Cat and Wolfie. I don't get it.

[Nobody Special]

Viera Assassin replaces Banksys Flareon effective immediately.

[Viera Assassin]

UNVOTE:
Hello everybody.

[Grimgroove]

Did you find Wolfie suspicious at the time for other reasons?

I did not. I liked the fact that we had 2 people at L-2 early on. Was hoping to generate some movement, squirming, etc.

Do you think there's likely to be scum among Raven and Banksys?

Yes, specifically Raven for reasons I posted here 190. But Banksys post 199 has got me scratching my head. The thread has been a real mess, so I could have easily missed it or forgotten, but I don't remember Banksys suspecting either one of these until just now. She's been on Ravens ass for the past 3-4 pages and then all of a sudden tells us we need to seriously look at Cat and Wolfie. I don't get it.

I get it. I'm going through something similar, but don't have the "luxury" of leaving the game.
While his attention was also hijacked by Ravenpaw, it does let others slip under the net. I'm also having a faint gutreading and wariness of some people actively staying in the shadows, seemingly not too annoyed by all this fuss. The names Banksys mentioned fall under this description.

Now, of course if you say something like that, you have to make a case. But that lazy ass just left us hanging dry, so I guess I'll have to do it before Ravenpaw shows up and takes all my attention again. Both by being scummy and by trying to make me look bad.

Got good vibes from piegun, and liked dyslexicon's latest.

Cheery Dog, hmm, dangerous, going to read up on him. He was the one on my radar before Ravenpaw distracted me. MAybe she was distracting me from him.

Lots of stuff going on here though, that's for sure.

[pieguyn]

noo don't leave us Banksys ;w;
hi Viera Assassin :3

anyway, I wanted to wait till Banksys made her case #2, but seems she left so no one will ever get to see it. ;w; Anyway, IMO the whole thing between Ravenpaw and Banksys seems like a town vs. town fight. my reasoning behind this is that both of them had some valid points, and some invalid points. they seemed more like attacking each other outright than really considering the intent behind what each person said, and IMO it doesn't seem like either of them were trying to deceive anyone. I had a town vs. town in a game on another site that was pretty much exactly like this.

Valid points:

This post is scummy as fuck. This is not a person scumhunting, this is a person fabricating a plausible wagon and sticking to it with each new post. Big's meaning with the L-1/L-2 thing was obvious and obviously town. You feel like you caught him in a contradiction, which is a god send for scum. It means you get to sit back and post all kinds of meaningless content and you can sit back and ask benign questions about random people's reads and look like town for doing it.

I can perceive what she's saying here 0.0 Ravenpaw asked all these questions, but no one was seriously questioning her. seems like town intent to ensure scum can't get by unnoticed, similar to me voting Banysys. this point really emphasizes that for me

3) I am not accusing you of trying to get a Big lynch. I'm accusing you of having a primary motivation of wishing to appear town rather than to catch scum. I will generalize happily and trust the town to get my meaning. Individually parsing out each sentence would be a waste of time.

with no one questioning you, it'd be easy if you were mafia to go by unnoticed. She's resolving that problem, even if some of her reasoning wasn't correct. that really seems like town motivation IMO.
then this

The people she calls out and the way she calls them out screams of manufactured reasoning. Now maybe she is just a bad town player and thinks this is what she should be doing to help the town, but I see too much ego in it for that.

backs that up more cause it means she saw the possibility of you being mafia the whole time.

Seems like someone missed the last few pages as my vote is not even on Big anymore and I've been defending him now, so who's fabricating stuff again?

good point, in fact most of your points are way more logical IMO. given what you've done so far it's pretty much the same kind of questioning you did with everyone else which seems pretty pro-town for me as I said before

Invalid points:
stuff like this v

2) Example of the above: It is anti-town to explain town reads, and it is CERTAINLY anti-town to defend someone.

Banksy can’t back up anything of what she is saying so she must resort to these ad hominine attacks, it’s a typical scum tactic.

for me this reasoning is like: Banksys is mafia -> she can't back anything up -> she resorts to above attacks -> she's mafia?

- Said she wouldn’t respond to me anymore but then does anyway! Flailing scum is flailing.

mb it's just me but I think she was just getting ticked off and broke her own promise out of annoyance. anyone can do that

- Admits her case is awful, and so she will have to make a new one on me. A townie when proven wrong usually does a rethink on their suspect, but not Banksy no (it’s because she’s not town).

you know something, this is what she said

Knowing that most people probably won't do that, I'll post another case later today, and perhaps make myself more clear.

after second thought, I'm not so sure this meant her second case had to be on you. this could be a misrep on your part or wording on Banksys' part but as I said before in this case it feels like you two are just taking what each other says out of proportion

also Cat Clancer, make one more post without explaining what you say and you'll have roleclaimed mafia kthx

[Cat Clancer]

Ooh, a threat.

I apologize you guys don't like my posts about being busy, however I don't see how that's scum. I have other priorities over this.
That aside, every time I HAVE the time to explain my cases, I have. (disclaimer, instascum amirite?)

Foremost, I have read the thread everyday. I know what's going on. I just haven't been able to put out a well-thought out reply. I don't like posting fluff IF I can avoid it.
Like I said in a previous post, either Raven or Blankys was I felt was town OR scum.
Since Blankys is getting replaced, any reads I had on them are pretty much null and void. So, I'm not going to bother in great detail.
As for Raven, on the other hand, here's my thoughts.
Lot's of questions, follow-ups, seems pretty town so far. Gives good reason and asks good questions.
Bankys, on the other hand, would ask questions and follow-up, but would be very aggressive and attack when could not find sufficient evidence or could not properly explain. Either very defensive, or pancaking because they were scum. Raven would not panic, gives me the feeling they had nothing to hide.

Also, Dyslex, are you only voting for me because of "an opportunistic" post? Again, I'm sorry I don;t have time to post regularly. I do read what's going on everyday though. Or does it have to do with Blankys prodding?


To be honest, I have been considering asking for a replacement simply because I didn't have the time I thought I would have, and that's not fair to me or you guys. You depend on active people for information.

[Cat Clancer]

Also, Raven, to reply to your question. Yes, I still do think pie is scum (not just because he threatened me), but he really seems intent to get a wagon going (which now has Dyslex on it), like trying to divert attention form himself.

[BigTerp]

The lack of conversation today has me concerned. Maybe mafia is happy with where the votes are currently at.

[Ravenpaw]

Alright so I may be wrong on my read of Grimm, his last post was pretty good. Part of me actually thinks it was his sycophancy towards Banksy that was making me scum read him so hard, as well as his (what seems to me a) personal dislike of my posts rather than a game dislike.
Okay so I was looking over at Cat because I also agree with the sentiment that his post looks a bit opportunistic. I noticed that originally Cat says I’m doing great scum hunting, and that Bank and Pie could be partners, then later he’s now saying one of me and Bank is scum when he wasn’t even scum reading me before! He also has continually ignored responding to Pie. Why is he not engaging with one of his strongest scum reads? He also never explained what happened to his scum read on Big in post #60.
His brief conversation with Bank also reads a bit strange to me, especially #139, it feels like coaching. I know I probably sound paranoid here, but I am that sure on the Banksy slot flipping scum that I feel no shame in already starting to actively look for the partner.

Also notice that Banksy replaced out of this game but has immediately signed up for another elsewhere. Hmmm. And as Big pointed out it was pretty strange what she said as final reads. No mention of me when she’s been tunnelling me all game? Her buddy is among the two people she listed I believe, and it is not surprising to see Cat’s name there.

My reads:

Dyslexi, Bigterp and Pie are all strong town reads and should never be lynched.
Cheery I lean town on, but he really needs to post more to solidify this read.
Grim is null and I don’t really trust myself atm in being able to read him as it’ll be strongly tainted by my own personal bias.
Michael is null leaning scum, mainly because of his lack of content, as well as Banksys mentioning his name in her last post, makes me paranoid.
Cat leans scum due to the stuff I discussed above.
Viera is scum and needs death immediately.

So, I'm going to reply to Ravenpaw again, but I invite everyone to read the game from the start again, and see how she has single-handedly made this topic a big ball of mess. She has to put half her posts in spoiler tags for damage control. We are on page 8!!!! Doesn't sound like someone reading too much into everything? This is paralyzing.

I'm an electric type that's why.
Btw I did that (spoiler tags) in Newbie 1369 and guess what my alignment was? (Clue for you: it starts with a t and ends with a n).
Grimm, what is your read on Banksys and why? (Just answer me this one thing, then I'll leave you be).

Since Blankys is getting replaced, any reads I had on them are pretty much null and void. So, I'm not going to bother in great detail.

This not a good way to look at the game. They are still the same slot, Blanksy's posts don't just disappear now that she is gone, they are still very much valid.

Also, Raven, to reply to your question. Yes, I still do think pie is scum (not just because he threatened me), but he really seems intent to get a wagon going (which now has Dyslex on it), like trying to divert attention form himself.

Michael asked that question, not me.
And Pie is highly likely town. Trying to get a wagon going is not scummy, town need to lynch people to kill the scum. And I disagree that Pie is trying to divert attention from himself, he directly answers the cases against him, so that is the opposite of diverting attention from himself, as it shows he has nothing to hide.

[Ravenpaw]

@Michael and @Cat-

May we have a list of who you think is town and who you think is scum please.

[Cheery Dog]

Forgot to mention this yesterday when I didn't find something to post on and now I don't have time to read as such.

I'm limited Access until Monday

[pieguyn]

Also, Raven, to reply to your question.

yeah Wolf asked that not Raven. feeling threatened by Raven asking a lot of questions? ~

Yes, I still do think pie is scum (not just because he threatened me),

hey it worked didn't it

but he really seems intent to get a wagon going (which now has Dyslex on it), like trying to divert attention form himself.

I'm mafia -> the reason I started a wagon was to divert attention from myself and not one of the pro-town reasons -> I'm mafia.
ok

(Clue for you: it starts with a t and ends with a n)

triggered jester mafia goon?

[Grimgroove]

I hope there's no bad blood between us Ravenpaw. When I see you mention "my personal dislike of your posts" I fear that there is, so let me get out of the way first: I don't "dislike" your style as such, let alone you as a person. I myself am prone to walls and have had to face scrutiny because of it. Being short and concise is not my specialty. I grant you there was an element of frustration at play because somehow I was forced to invest a lot energy in something that seemed so senseless to me. But it's not a matter of dislike, it's a matter of scumminess.

What I find scummy about your posts in this game is not just the amount of questions (though it is also a factor), but mainly what they are about, and more importantly: what they aren't about. You ignoring my comments (I'd evenc all it the start of a case) on Cheery Dog but nitpicking on some L-1-L-2 semantics was the first time you rubbed me the scummy way, because you seemed very eager to get lost in the details. Now, maybe you are town and you are working up your way to something, but it's not the impression you've given me. Instead, it feels you post all these questions to A. somehow direct people's attention to where you want it to be, for whichever reason; B. nitpick on, in my view, inconsequential matters. When directing people's attention, you're essentially directing the thread. You become a townleader. But a townleader needs cases and I don't think that what you have contributed so far has shown us a good case, I'm sorry. 130 I guess you could call an effort, but a lot seems OMGUS (there's a lot of "me" inthere). 183 is the same, with some expansions. I don't think this constitute a case to be honest. MAybe now that the argument with Banksys lies a bit behind you, you can look at this more objectively yourself.

My read on Banksys is town, because I see where she is coming from in her posts, and her style was so confrontational it added to the feeling this person was confident that she was on to something. She engaged with you and with the game in a very hands-on way, admitted to being experienced (not hiding under some newb-status) and also her going-away present felt very town.

[BigTerp]

Although Ravenpaw is still by biggest scum feel right now, some of what she says regarding Cat and Viera Assassin (Bansky) is starting to make a bit of sense. Mainly with Bansky. I'm still trying to figure out why she felt the need to give her "final reads" right before she opted out of the game. And after tunnelling on Raven for pretty much the entire game, her final reads include 2 names she hasn't mentioned before. Seems like mafia trying to cause some confusion before they leave. Woud like to hear from Viera before I draw anymore conclusions though.

@Viera - Have you had the chance to read through the thread yet?
Who is your biggest scum feel? Why?
Who is your bieggest town feel? Why?
What do you get from the back and forth between Raven and Bansky?
What do you think of the "final reads" Bansky posted right before peacing out?

[BigTerp]

I'd like to work on a readslist, but can't promise it will happen. I'm pretty busy at work today. And unfortunately,

I'll be V/LA starting this evening through most of the weekend.

Sorry!!

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.06

Cat Clancer - 2 - Dyslexicon, pieguyn
Ravenpaw - 2 - Grimgroove, BigTerp
BigTerp - 1 - Cheery Dog
Viera Assassin - 1 - Ravenpaw

Not Voting: Michael_Wolf, Cat Clancer, Viera Assassin

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-09-11 03:15:51)

V/LA: BigTerp through Sunday September 8; Cheery Dog through Monday September 9

[Grimgroove]

Ooh, a threat.

VOTE: Cat Clancer

I apologize you guys don't like my posts about being busy, however I don't see how that's scum. I have other priorities over this.
That aside, every time I HAVE the time to explain my cases, I have. (disclaimer, instascum amirite?)

Nobody said anything about "your posts about being busy".

Foremost, I have read the thread everyday. I know what's going on.

This is not apparent.

I don't like posting fluff IF I can avoid it.

We're not asking for fluff. You just said you know what's going on. Please tell us what's going on.

Like I said in a previous post, either Raven or Blankys was I felt was town OR scum.

Rephrase please. The way it reads now, this is a non-statement. The fluff you so eagerly want to avoid.

Since Blankys is getting replaced, any reads I had on them are pretty much null and void. So, I'm not going to bother in great detail

It's still the same slot, with the same role behind it. It's just a different person playing it now.

As for Raven, on the other hand, here's my thoughts.
Lot's of questions, follow-ups, seems pretty town so far. Gives good reason and asks good questions.
Bankys, on the other hand, would ask questions and follow-up, but would be very aggressive and attack when could not find sufficient evidence or could not properly explain. Either very defensive, or pancaking because they were scum. Raven would not panic, gives me the feeling they had nothing to hide.

Could you point me to Banksys' panic attack? Seems to be the core difference between Ravenpaw and her according to you, but I did not see any panicking.

Also, Dyslex, are you only voting for me because of "an opportunistic" post? Again, I'm sorry I don;t have time to post regularly. I do read what's going on everyday though. Or does it have to do with Blankys prodding?

Banksys prodding?
Opportunism has got nothing to do with you not psoting regularly. It's about you taking an opportunistic stance in the Ravenpaw-Banksys-debate without displaying the slightest factual knowledge about their discussion.

To be honest, I have been considering asking for a replacement simply because I didn't have the time I thought I would have, and that's not fair to me or you guys. You depend on active people for information.

Meh. Don't like to discuss anything that's go to do with replacings. Unnecessarily obfuscating things.

[pieguyn]

mod: I voted Cat Clancer a while back

just in case I didn't,

vote: Cat Clancer

[pieguyn]

oops

vote: Cat Clancer

[Nobody Special]

Sorry about that.

The last two votecounts have been edited to reflect this.

[Cheery Dog]

Btw I did that (spoiler tags) in Newbie 1369 and guess what my alignment was? (Clue for you: it starts with a t and ends with a n).

Hmm, I see a extra defensive move here. Also resorting to a self-meta refence, which in truth tells us nothing, unless you don't bother spoiling walls as scum?

[Cat Clancer]

Sorry to all, but

@ MOD: Request Replacement.

Too much has come up for me to continue coming. Sorry everyone, and best of luck!

[Nobody Special]

Searching.