Mini 404: Diablo Mafia (Game Over)

[livingod]

But not only was that point not believed to be proven by anyone, it wasn't even proven in the first place. Hence the disbelief.

You say:
"TJM sez that since no one believes it, it's not proven."
I say:
"TJM sez that since it's not proven, no one believes it."

[Zindaras]

Official Voting Update

:

TheJiveMachine

: 5 (DragonsofSummer, chaotic_diablo, Save the Dragons, Mr. Flay, Cogito Ergo Sum)

chaotic_diablo

: 2 (livingod, Aelyn)

Cheesefan

: 1 (Skruffs)

DragonsofSummer

: 1 (Thestatusquo)

Not Voting

: 3 (remussaidow, TheJiveMachine, Cheesefan)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

And, no, TSQ, I won't beat Town of Suspicion, but I don't really want to.

[DragonsofSummer]

DoS you come in second place as scummy , to me, especially your "I don't care if he has proven his point, if nobody else believes it, it hasn't been proven"... It took a reread or two to understand where you are coming from, and that seems... weird. It's like saying the earth is flat, and even if someone says it's round, you don't care unless someone else agrees...

First can you quote the posts you are talking about in the future to make things easier for everyone to understand.

On to your point. I know you are talking about the C_D arguement we had early on. Here are all of my statements about it:

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

Then it comes back on me because all I did was FoS and leave it alone, which I really just forgot until it was brought up again:

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

it seems like there's many things that could be discussed, yet you pick this one thing and go after it like pitbull. Then you fos, to make it look not so serious. I am quite suspicious of certian FOSs. Scum can be like, "look, I was suspicious of this person back on d1."

Although the major thing is that you failed to unvote your random vote to FOS someone. Why would you find your random vote more useful than a vote on someone who doesn't seem very town oriented.

Oh! I get it! Are you guys scumbuddies?

I found scum for you people. Please get off your "diablo is diablo because his name is diablo" wagon.

I only put an FoS on him at that point because I was wanting TheJiveMachine to respond with his reasons for what he said, but he has not and now that you bring it up again. I will go ahead and

Unvote, Vote:TheJiveMachine

you may be right that I was stupid to just leave my vote on my random vote, but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time of the post. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. I do understand your vote on me, and can accept that what I did looks scummy, but it was not intended that way.

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

So... where in all of that do I ever say I don't care if he has proven his point? I acknowledge that he hasn't, and I was never the one attacking C_D there. But there are some other people that wrote posts similar to what you are saying:

I have to agree with DoS, C_D is claiming he proved his point when it doesn't seem like anyone agrees with him.

If he had proved it, I would have conceded that he was right. But from my point of view, he didn't come close. I wasn't saying it wouldn't have mattered if he did prove it, I was saying it was incredibly arrogant of him to say he proved a point when he was apparently the only person who thought so.

[Skruffs]

That's fine, but that's not how TJM worded it.

TJM sez : "I don't think he proved this, and since nobody except him says he's prioven it, it's not proven."

I wouldn't want to be on the other side of an argument with someone who uses that logic. It's essentially saying "Until someone else believes you, nothing you say can be considered valid."

[Skruffs]

That was my bad, DoS - you, livingod, and TJM were so tangled up there that I got hte names confused. Her'es the quote.

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

[remussaidow]

I'm going to have to reread this entire game sometime soon, I am completely lost as to who is who now.

[Aelyn]

Unvote.

Reading up now.

Oh, and hey, everyone.

[Thestatusquo]

hiya. People get your votes of TJM, theres a better case on DoS:

GoGo random.org!

It tells me to

Vote: Pata

.

This post isnt significant yet, but it will be later, specifically, by this post.

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

Now, I would expect a town player, in any situation, to change off of a random vote to a non random vote very quickly. Townies on principle do not like the random voting stage, as it is, well. random, and often lets scum force a lynch which no one can really be blamed for the next day(I.E. Free lynch) THis means that I will be taking as an assumption that townies will try to place non random votes whenever possible. I know that's fairly true about me. Therefore, I eliminate this as a town action, because I do not see a single town justification for doing it.

From a scum perspective, this could have a couple ramifications, which I believe are all possibilities

1) He could be scum buddies with pata, and is being very mindful to distance from her in a very strong manner (vote)

2) He could be scum with TJM, and want to distance, but not put his money where his mouth is by throwing down a vote. If TJM comes up scum, he can throw down the "Look, I FOS'd her day1...I knew something was up." line.

3) He's scum buddies with neither of them, and is hedging his bets. He could be
trying to throw as much suspicion as possible on people who are not his scumbuddies in order to get wagons going, and not be on them. I find this the most likely scenario, and the 2nd one being the second most likely.

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

it seems like there's many things that could be discussed, yet you pick this one thing and go after it like pitbull. Then you fos, to make it look not so serious. I am quite suspicious of certian FOSs. Scum can be like, "look, I was suspicious of this person back on d1."

Although the major thing is that you failed to unvote your random vote to FOS someone. Why would you find your random vote more useful than a vote on someone who doesn't seem very town oriented.

Oh! I get it! Are you guys scumbuddies?

I found scum for you people. Please get off your "diablo is diablo because his name is diablo" wagon.

I only put an FoS on him at that point because I was wanting TheJiveMachine to respond with his reasons for what he said, but he has not and now that you bring it up again. I will go ahead and

Unvote, Vote:TheJiveMachine

you may be right that I was stupid to just leave my vote on my random vote, but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time of the post. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. I do understand your vote on me, and can accept that what I did looks scummy, but it was not intended that way.

In this post, when STD correctly points out the things which I have further analyzed here, DoS caves faster than Monica Lewinsky faced with a presidential dick. He does something else she did too, he sucks. He's sucking up like a mo fo here, and it looks to me, that Saves the dragons is his presidential candidate. This is some of my main justification for StD being town.

Compare and contrast these two posts:

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

What is this even saying? He hasn't proven his point, but his evidence was better than yours? Now...I did debate for four years in high school, and generally the person who has more evidence is the person who has proven his point, in an argument, so this statement contradicts itself, and looks like he's attempting to justify a terrible FOS and then further, under pressure, vote, which can't be justified because it made no sense in the first place. This makes me start to doubt the second option that I discussed at the top of the post.

But compare with this post:

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

If he had proved it, I would have conceded that he was right. But from my point of view, he didn't come close. I wasn't saying it wouldn't have mattered if he did prove it, I was saying it was incredibly arrogant of him to say he proved a point when he was apparently the only person who thought so.

Alright, it was just that since you worded it [quote="TheJiveMachine"Proven by who? You?

It seemed like you didn't care whether he had actually proven the point or not. (Which you are right he didn't).[/quote]


In this post he tells us that he AGREED with TJM, which makes no sense since he then went on the attack tjm for the very thing that he said he agreed with him about. Learn2bconsistant.

And that is why it is painfully obvious to me the Dragonsofsummer is scum.

[remussaidow]

n this post, when STD correctly points out the things which I have further analyzed here, DoS caves faster than Monica Lewinsky faced with a presidential dick. He does something else she did too, he sucks. He's sucking up like a mo fo here, and it looks to me, that Saves the dragons is his presidential candidate. This is some of my main justification for StD being town.

vote: DragonsofSummer

My reasonings are what TSQ illustrated above here, with the best line of it quoted.

[Skruffs]

It kinda makes sense to me, but I think it's much more likely that TJM and livingood are mixed up with him as scum in some order more than me.

Unvote

That's halfway there to voting, which I will do with my next post.

[DragonsofSummer]

TSQ: I'm no expert, even though I've debated my fair share as well, but I'm pretty sure that you aren't required to decide whether you completely agree with someone immediately. I thought that C_D had some good points at that point in time, but he hadn't completely convinced me of anything. If you will read what my post said it wasn't even really about who's arguement was better, it was about the fact that TMJ had used such bad phrasing for his post. Later when C_D could not solidify his case with even more evidence is when the other posts came into effect. Also, whether you choose to believe it or not, I was still hoping TMJ would respond to my post. STD brought it up and this made me realize that it was time to solidify a vote on him, and I forgot about TMJ for a little while in between (though I am embarrassed to say so).

I would also appreciate you not taking my posts out of context anymore. A lot happens between the post where I say I like C_D's evidence more, and the post where I say he didn't prove his point. I felt that he was on his way to proving it, but then it just never happened, and consequently agreed with TMJ that C_D's point wasn't proven.

[Thestatusquo]

1)That is currect, you do not have to decide immediately if you agree with something. That is never what I was saying. Nice strawman, though, by the way. My point was actually that attacking someone for disagreeing with it (and semantics aside, that IS what you were doing.) And going on the record that you like the evidense is analagus to supporting something.

2) Those posts were an hour and 40 minutes, and 2 post appart. All there is that is between them is Remus agreeing with you, and TJM short, blippy response. I'm not exactly seeing the "...lot happen[img]" between those two points that you're claiming. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me, but right now it just looks like you're out and out lying to me in order to look better.learn2btruthful.

3)Even if that were true, you still haven't dealt with the contradiction which occurs in one post. Although, I suppose a lot happened in between you typing the first sentance of that post, and the last one.

I think you're scum. Die now please.

[Skruffs]

short, blippy response.. haha

Vote : Dragons of Summer

YEs, scum. Die. Die die die.
You're up to three so it will take a lot more effort to make you die, but still, good enough.

[DragonsofSummer]

2) Those posts were an hour and 40 minutes, and 2 post appart. All there is that is between them is Remus agreeing with you, and TJM short, blippy response. I'm not exactly seeing the "...lot happen[img]" between those two points that you're claiming. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me, but right now it just looks like you're out and out lying to me in order to look better.learn2btruthful.

I think you and I are discussing two different posts here.... I'm talking about between my first one (sunday Feb. 11th) and the one where I say that I agree C_D did not prove his point(wednesday Feb 14th). So I was not lying when I said a lot had happened between the two.

3)Even if that were true, you still haven't dealt with the contradiction which occurs in one post. Although, I suppose a lot happened in between you typing the first sentance of that post, and the last one.

I did deal with that when I talked about how just because I liked his evidence at that point I still wasn't completely sold on his theory. So later (3 days later in fact) when he still had not provided more evidence to solidify his theory I agreed that he had not proven his point.

[Thestatusquo]

If those are the two posts you're talking about, then you're response makes no sense, because I never compared and contrasted them, nor do those points interact with each other at all. Again, perhaps you should clarify.

[Mr. Flay]

The amount of bandwagons today boggles my mind. Will need to reread and see who is defending who, but still content with my vote for now.

[DragonsofSummer]

If those are the two posts you're talking about, then you're response makes no sense, because I never compared and contrasted them, nor do those points interact with each other at all. Again, perhaps you should clarify.

Alright. I have answered your question about that post before. I agreed with C_D's evidence more than the other when I made my first post about it (three days before), but wasn't convinced he was right yet. I was waiting for him to show more evidence to solidify his point, but when he didn't I agreed that he had not proven his point. So my last two points don't contradict each other.

But that was never my arguement against TJM in the first place. He seemed hostile towards C_D just because it was C_D to me and that is what my FoS was about and then my vote was about.

[Save The Dragons]

how I wish I were a dayvig.

[Thestatusquo]

DoS. You're not making any sense at all.

[DragonsofSummer]

I feel I explained well... Here I'll break it down again...

I FoS TJM for his post's statement

Proven by who? You?

because it seems like he doesn't care whether or not C_D has proven his point, (which at that point he had not, but he had some good evidence. You are attacking me for something that isn't even why I voted TJM by the way it just ended up being discussion)

C_D provides no more evidence to solidify his claim, and STD calls me out on my FoS (which I explain why it stayed an FoS for so long earlier. But I will again. I wanted a response from TJM and I forgot about it because things in other games came up that I was dealing with in the interim, which is very much my fault.

I vote TJM because he never answered me and STD reminded me.

The arguement of whether or not C_D has proven his point comes up here. Someone calls me on C_D proving his point, and as he did not give any more evidence it remained unproven. (The statemtent in my first post about liking his evidence more is what comes into play here).

Then I make this post:

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

Where I state that he hadn't proven his point, but three days earlier when I made my first post about it I thought he had some good points. But state again that my arguement against TJM isn't whether C_D had proven his point, but that even if he had it seemed like TJM didn't care.

Then I state again that I agree C_D's point wasn't proven.

Now you are calling me on a discrepancy between the last two posts that doesn't exist, and you just keep saying that I'm not making any sense...

[Skruffs]

That was a good break down. Thank you.

[Thestatusquo]

That post is off in a couple things. I'll break it down after the 28th, because I have two big tests then, and won't be able to contribute much until I am done studying for them.

[Skruffs]

UNVOTE

I'm not going to wait around for TSQ to make his post.. I can make my own decisions.
I've decided I am not going to lynch cheesefan today. But I'll be watching you, mister.
I'm in no rush to run off into Night, though.

DoS - what are your feelings on StD right now? You refer to him a few times in your post.

[DragonsofSummer]

I actually feel that StD is very much town right now. He saw something he thought was scummy and decided to call me on it. But I don't get many scummy vibes off of him. The only thing I think is remotely scummy is his comment on this page about wishing he were a day vig, but that could just as easily be a town thing.

The reason he is mentioned a few times in my post is solely because he is the one who brought my mind back to this game and my vote on TJM.

[Skruffs]

I'm still voting you. And nobody seems to care. I guess that means you are town?
*sigh*

Unvote

Of course, it's possible you are scum and your buddies are just lurkin.