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Mini 410 - McDonald's Mafia [Game Over!]
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Yes.Amb wrote:Vote Glork
Was that bad?
If there's one thing I ask of you folks, it's that you please not kill me.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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If it were really opposite day where you came from, why would you say this? Wouldn't you say that it'sblahgo wrote:Its opposite day where I'm from...notopposite day where you come from? By saying "it's opposite day," you're implying that it's not opposite day, which means that your statement isn't reveresed, which just creates a complete paradox.
Unvote, Vote: Blagho. Obviously lying scum.-
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StallingChamp Unvotes and Votes: FrAt
Pink Princess and StallingChamp areobviouslypro-town. I bet FrAt and Blagho are in cahoots as dirty evil scumbags.-
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Bzzzt. Wrong. On so many levels.Frozen Atlantic wrote:I didn't think of masonry. But yeah, safe to say that proxying your vote to a mason is also retarded. You're supposed to NOT be connecting yourself to the other guy during the day. In short,phail.
Masons are supposed to leave hints where they can so tha t, if one of them dies, the other(s) will be able to confirm themselves. Proxying a vote to a mason is actually a pretty good way of doing so. Leaving hints (such as a mason-buddy's name buried in a post somewhere) is also a good way of doing so. The greatest strength of a mason group is the idea of having a hidden, but confirmable role.
I will defend the notion of proxying votes in general. When a player proxies their vote, they are indicating that they are willing to put their faith into the person gaining control of their vote. It's little secret that I'm going to be named the best scumhunter from 2006; proxying one's vote to the Paragon is probably the safest decision one can make. I'm no more or less likely to be scum than anybody else, and if I actually manage to find something useful to do with that vote, I just might pressure the right person at the right time.
In the random stages of a game, it's not even particularly important; it's not as though I'm going to do anything significant with my vote, other than possibly wagoning somebody to a whole three or four votes, so I'mVERYsurprised that SC is picking up flak for proxying his vote at all. It seems like anawfullyweak reason to attack somebodoy whoisn't even here to defend themselves. I haven't decided if the people harping on SC are stupid or scummy yet. But I've definitely logged and noted the reactions to his proxy thus far.
That said, when SC comes back, Iwouldlike him to explain why he chose to proxy his vote. He indicated that he would only be gone for a day, and I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking to happen during that time. Even though I see no reason not to proxy one's vote on Page 1, I definitely don't see a reason why one should/would proxy D1.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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That is simplyFrozen Atlantic wrote:2) There are no more subtle way to make the "hidden" part of that statement plausible? This method is about as good as making a post that says "SUP MASON".not true.Proxying one's vote is not exclusive or indicative of mason-hood by any means. Thus, when you see someone proxy a vote, youcannotcome to the conclusion that the player and their proxy are mason-buddies. Thus, it isnotin any way obvious. Note also that a non-Mason may proxy a vote to a mason, so even if the proxy dies as a Mason, nothing is guaranteed. It only becomes "obvious" if the proxier dies as a Mason, but theENTIRE POINTof being a mason is being able to posthumously confirm your partner.
This game is not about "safe decisions." VirtuallyFrAt wrote:3) It's a safe decision... if you are town. All of point three is logical if you are a confirmed townie, you are not and therefore it is not. Am I missing something?NOTHING{/i] in Mafia is a safe decision. Saying that his move is stupid because it might help the scum is like saying "we shouldn't ever lynch D1 because we don't have info and will probably lynch a townie." That's just a retarded argument.
No. Not bad play. Just what I saw as pointless play. Needless to say, if SC's "I wanted to spark discussion" reasoning is in fact true, he's accomplished exactly what he set out to do... in which case, he didPJ wrote:4) Well, we agree on that, anyway. SC? Incredibly bad play. At best. Pretend all that stuff was in question form and respond accordingly. Vote stays - the whole town can note it if they like.NOTmake a bad play. He made a verygoodplay.
Unvote, Vote: FrAt
I'm reasonably happy with that vote, all things considered.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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It's not a bad play either way. I still don't understand why you think that is the case. It was a harmless play. It was a highlyunusualplay. Some might say it was even a pointless play. But it was not a "bad" play. Not by any means. Not when there was virtually no harm that could have been done, even if I were scum.
I'm not saying that one should be given leave to do what they wish "for discussion's sake." To insinuate such a notion is beyond ridiculous, and more often scummy than not. But in no way do I feel that SC's play falls anywhere within the general viscinity of "bad." If you're going to claim that he's scummy for making a "bad play" and then claiming "I wanted to create discussion," I want you to explain clearly and conciselywhyhis play was bad. I also want you to define "bad" (as part of me suspects that our definitions of the word may differ).-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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FrAt, you're not making any sense.
You claim that SC's placing his trust in me was dangerous. I contend that there is no "trust issue" whatsoever, because as I've already stated,THERE WAS NOTHING SIGNIFICANT I COULD HAVE DONE WITH THE EXTRA VOTE.What exactly are your thoughts on that point?
I would further contend that it is perfectly reasonable to "trust" somebody whose alignment isn'tknown, but whom you believe to be pro-town. That doesn't apply in this case, but it could with regards to proxies in other games/situations.
How in the world is he trying to hide behind me? It's not like he's going "IF ANYTHING HAPPENS, ITS GLORK'S FAULT!!!" I don't understand what you're getting at here.FrAt wrote:you ARE trying to hide behind another player of unknown alignment.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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That'd be nothing new, really. It'd just be like making me King in a Kingmaker setup. In fact, I have a perfect track record as King to date.Amb wrote:We could all proxy todays vote to Glork and see what he does with such power! Will he just vig someone at random, or will he just shake his head in utter disbelief. I doubt such a move would have ever been done before, and while the move would be crazy from a tactics point of view - I'd go with it just to scoop an award for most unusual day one of all time
Unfortunately, me finding scums usually results in me getting nightkilled pretty quickly, which I most certainly doNOTwant to have happen.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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A) I find it odd that Pete D is accusing SC's posts of being scummy while leaving his (random) vote sitting around on DeanWinchester. Sometimes it's indicative of distancing, sometimes it's indicative of scum going after town, occasinally it's indicative of just bad pro-town play. When you move from "random" to "serious," you should almost always take your vote with you.
B) Pete let off one of my favorite scumtells that MeMe taught me way back in the day. Proposing or taking a bad stance (such as the one FA is taking, I feel) may or may not be scummy. Following someone else's lead on a bad stance (Pete not only agreeing with FA, but attacking SC for his response) is usually scummy.
C) I feel that, as SC pointed out, Pete overstated the "scumminess" of the proxy by calling it "distracting" and "confusing." Distracting from what? Random-Voting? What exactly is confusing about it?
Pete is pinging. Major hard.-
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Generally, yes. But following a scummy/bad stance is usually worse... for what should be obvious reasons.Pink Princess wrote:I think blindly following any stance is a bad thing.-
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FoS: Everyone not voting Pete D
Yes, all 9 of you are scums. Die.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Something about voting for Pete D 4th, after my joke-post about FoSing everyone not voting him, coupled with the "based on everyone else's reasoning" sentiment. Makes me second-guess my Pete D stance based mostly on DoS's post-
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I'd probably just pull be back and say something like "holy crap, this is one very wagony town."-
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FoS: Amb
All I'm hearing from you is "what should we do?" Take some initiative and attack somebody if you want discussion. Make a big deal out of something small. I don't care. One of the worst, scummiest things that a player can do when a game is slow is to ask everybody else what to do without doing anything themeslves.-
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This is so incredibly wrong, I'm not even sure I want to get into it. But meh, here goes.Amb wrote:On day 1 you can be lynched for having a name that reminds someone of Pi, or for by random chance being krolg spelt backwards. Even if the reasoning is "His voting pattern is scummy" or "He seems to have no backbone" you wont hit scum except by luck (Excepting if the scum says "Hey everybody, Im a serial killer, would you let me live as a vig").
You are no more likely to get lynched for a "random" or idiotic reason on Day One than on any other Day. You are more likely to get some ridiculuous bandwagon against you. You are more likely to get involved in some extended debate over something stupid. But an actual lynchVERY RARELYhappens for some stupid reason. To flat-out say that hitting scum by dumb luck is ridiculous and actually insulting to a given town's ability to find scum. People do scummy things. Discussoin and debate ensue. By getting everyone to weigh in on relevant topics at hand, it is more than possible to find scum using playskill and playskill alone. I would argue that there is little, if any, dumb luck involved in finding a scumbag D1 ever.
MODS, please prod the following:
Blagho (last post 2/18)
Omega (last post 2/20)
yellowbounder (2 posts all game, last one on 2/21)
Thanks.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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*laugh*
I love the "Look, Glork, I'm doing what you said I should be doing!" comment. Still, I can't argue with you busing your scumbuddy. :goodposting:-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I'm going to go ahead and assume that your post was an attempt at humor.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Please don't kill me.Pink Princess wrote:This is totally ungame related, but I just noticed I got a title!
Woohoo, look at me!-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Okay, so exactly one of you is likely scum.
I just have to figure out which one.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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My most recent vote for Amb is a combination of two things.
First, he keeps hopping on bandwagons for the sake of getting things along. Second, I feel as though he keeps clamoring for conversation to happen while not really contributing very much himself.
However, he seems to have actually contributed something of his own. To respond to his paragraph about me:
Yes, I've been very controlling. I'm actually very surprised at this. Usually when I start making bold claims, most players question what I'm doing. This time around, players seem more than willing ot play along with whatever it is that I'm spouting. It's a reaction that I don't think I've ever had to this scale before, and it's actually making me very undecided about what it means. That's probably why I keep jumping back and forth -- when I see players accept my baseless attacks without much (if any) questioning, I usually think they're more likely to be scum than the average player. As several players have done this, I keep finding myself looking in different directions.Amb wrote:Glork Very controlling, but listened to. His arguments have no meat at all - yet he has it down to "Okay, so exactly one of you is likely scum. I just have to figure out which one". First - this says nothing at all. Exactly one of you is likely scum? Exactly one is scum would make sense. Exactly one is likely scum looks like a way out if neither of us are. And also, why would it not be one or both, unless DoS was in Glork's group. Glork is controlling this conversation without actually providing any in depth research, he just wants us to follow his reputation. At least Glork does openly admit things like "Where do you think I pulled it out of?" and "Hunch". I just dont like the way its gone from that to conclusion. (And vague conclusion at that)
Now, with regards to the "Exactly one of Amb/DoS is likely scum" comment. Yes, I find it likely that exactly one of you is scum. I also see the possibility of neither of you being scum. And I find it highly unlikely that both of you are scumtogether(which I meant to imply but evidently didn't make clear enough).
Amb's "Well I'd better jump on the rival wagon that isn't me" attitude is indicative of either a very selfish townsperson or a scumbag who doesn't really care who goes down as long as it's not him. That pretty much affirmed my stance against him until DoS responded by doing theexact same thing.Now, normally that would make a player go "well then could they both be scum?" Yes, possibly. It's an extremely unusual distancing tactic. Usually you'd want to spat some nonesense at each other while looking elsewhere for somebody to kill off. So I find it very unlikely that you two are scumbuddies. Still, I feel that one of you is probably scum. And who knows... perhaps I've managed to find both a Mafiate and a Serial Killer.
I actually kinda like Amb's longish post, so I think I'llUnvote, Vote: DoS. I can roll that way for now.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I hope you realize that coming out and admitting that you're being a dirty ol' scumbag does not make us less likely to believe that you are a dirty ol' scumbag.StallingChamp wrote:Unvote, Vote: Amb. Basically admitting to bandwagonning recklessly and to voting just to even up the vote counts.
Amb, you should probably claim. Consider yourself lucky that my itchytriggerhammer finger hasn't gone off yet.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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*behaving like a dirty ol' scumbag
Sorry, mistyped that. Still, your reaction amuses me. I can't tell if it's a slip "Crap, I admitted that I'm scum?" or a genuine "WTF?" I've noted it nonetheless.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Argh.
"Coming out and pointing out your own scummy behavior does not..."-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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If you're pseudo-claiming what I think you are, just claim it explicitly, and at least force the scums to waste a nightkill on you.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I'm tempted to go ahead and ask for flavor, rolename, etc., but I'm pretty sure that I believe you.
Now, back to lynching DoS.-
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Frozen Atlantic wrote:Seriously, town.Stop letting this dude think for you.It's embarrassing.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Can you at least tell us if you have an actual name?
I want to cross-check with my own role, and I want DoS to answer this question as well.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Actually, nevermind, Amb. In the absence of a counterclaim, I don't want to hear any more from you. I choose to believe you unless you get counterclaimed.
I do, however, want to hear from DoS.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I'm not saying that it isn't plausable. I just want to hear what else he has to say.-
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Are you sure?DragonsofSummer wrote:No I don't have a name... It just says customer and town aligned
Amb, do you have a name?-
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My initial suspicion of DoS was pretty much based on the timing and reasoning for his Pete D vote.
His responses weren't very satisfying; he basically reiterated that he was voting because he agreed with the evidence provided by other players.
His OMGUS wagon vote of Amb was just as bad as Amb's "I don't want to be lynched, so I'll join the next biggest wagon" vote. Both plays were selfish and incredibly stupid. It's not as though a lynch was going to be determined in the first ~5 pages of the game, so I don't see why they were getting so fussy about having a large wagon on them at that stage.
I still have my vote on DoS because, quite simply... I have a name. I have the name of a real-life (and reasonably well-known) person. I'm not vanilla (and if you look back through my posts, you'll see some serious hint-dropping; I've already pseudo-claimed). I find his "I don't have a name" comment somewhat suspicious. Apparently I am in the minority, though. Maybe just 'nilla townies have no names. It is also distinctly possible that I am theonlyperson who has a name; I can guarantee that I am completely unique in at least noe major role attribute.
I don't know what to make of any of this right now.Unvote
I want FrAt to explain this comment:
PP is someone I could potentially see as scum (she's clung the most to this "let's listen to/follow Glork" notion), and I don't have a read on Omega either way at this point.FrAt wrote:I believe the doc claim. DoS is the lynch for today. So far, PP and Omega are the only people striking me as 100% town.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Bah, missed the last two posts of the thead. Thinking on SC's post now.-
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It's not so much that you'refollowingme in an "I'm going to say/vote/do what Glork says/votes/does," but it's more the fact that you keep pushing how valuable a resource I am, how much youcareabout my opinion , etc. I appreciate it, although I'm definitely starting to get that buddy-up feeling. At first I ignored it, pretty much thinking, "Oh, well PP just likes me." Now I'm beginning to consider the possibility that it's more of a game-related sentiment.-
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Vote: DoS
I think that a DoS lynch is probably in our best interests.-
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Amb, if your claim and flavor are true, that would seem to imply that the mafia consists of employees who are poisoning the food that they give to customers, as opposed to "Evil Customers" who are poisoning each others' food.
I'm about 80% sure that DoS is the play today. StallingChamp claims to be 99% sure that DoS is scum. I think that this is because he knows something that the rest of us probably do not. I don't think that it's necessarily ability-related (not like he's a daycop or anything), but I do believe that he has found something very wrong with DoS's claim.
I definitely think that SC is pro-town, and I definitely think that DoS is scum. I'm no longer sure how I feel about Amb. I can easily see a scenario in which Amb is scum and not a doctor -- but I'm not going to discuss that because it likely involves other players' potential roles. I'm still keeping a loose eye on PP and FrAt. I'd like to hear more from Omega and Zarvok -- they've been way too quiet.-
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I find it reasonable to believe that the Mafia tried to kill me last night, so I'm going to go ahead and finish claiming.
I amMorgan Spurlock, Survivor. I am not stricktly pro-town, but I am not scum. Mysolewin condition is to be alive when the game ends. For those of you who don't know, Spurlock is the guy who filmed the movie Super-Size me, so I have a brief spat of flavor about how I'm eating nothing but McDonald's for a month, etc., etc.
If you'll notice, I hinted to a Survivor role several times: Post 15, Post 57, and Post 129. I also made a big deal about whether players have names or not, and mentioned that I might be the only player with one. I also said that I was sure I was unique in at least one major aspect with regards to roles (that being, of course, that I am NEUTRAL).
I considered claiming right at the start of the day, but that's always iffy. Scum and sometimes townies will want Survivors lynched (scum to get a "mislynch," and townies to lynch a "non pro-town player"). I decided that the better route was to hint heavily D1 and see if the scums took a hint.
The other part of my plan for this game was to try to find a scumbag D1 to demonstrate to the town that I'm not going to sit around and be a completely useless player. I will not behave in such a way to become a major threat to the scums, because they will have to kill me if they think I'm jeopardizing their chances of winning. However, now that I've pretty much delivered you folks a scumbag (with some serious backing from SC <3), I think I've proven that I don't plan on screwing you over.
I will still read the game, and I will still participate and provide insight when applicable. However, as my condition is to survive, that is my primary focus. Everything I've said has been in the best interests of the town and, unless I fear for my life, everything that I say in the future will also be in the best interests of the town.
Make of that what you will. But whatever you do, just don't kill me.-
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It's the same reason that it's a bad idea to post "Hey, what's your result?" to a claimed Cop as soon as day starts.yellowbounder wrote:Why is it so vital to Amb that he can't reveal who he protected last night?
Discussion is more informative when less information is known. Suppose Amb had protected FrozenAtlantic (whom the scums tried to kill), and then several players bandwagoned FrAt the next day for some really silly/bad reason. We'd be able to get information from this bandwagon, whereas if Amb had revealed FrAt as a protection chioce right away, that wagon would never have happened.
It's also possible that Amb's information won't even be helpful to the town. Suppose the kill was stopped by a roleblocker, and not Doc-protection. If Amb protected OmegaScum (hypothetically speaking) and we all went "aha! Scums probably tried to kill Omega. He's likely not scum!' then we're setting ourselves up for failure.
As I said before, in the absence of a counterclaim, there is no reason to lynch Amb. If Amb is scum and there is a Doc out there somewhere, they should wait until the daybeforeLyLo to counterclaim. That way, even if we lynch the wrong person, the town hasn't lost yet. The scums are not going to be able to play WIFOM games with us and trick us into lynching Amb if he's really a Doctor.
I think that Amb is legit anyway. As I indicated yesterday, I thought that exactly one of DoS/Amb was scum, based on their interation with the self-preservation votes. I think that the scums wanted to "trick" us into trying to lynch him, and that they went after either SC or myself... and that their kill was foiled by some other night action.
By the way, I'd bet $10 that at least one of PP/TCS is scum. Just sayin'.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Yes, we would both win. As long as I am alive when one group or faction attains their win condition, I win as well. I affect no other team's win condition -- I am not a threat to the town, so I can't prevent them from living all happy/peaceful forevermore. And I am not a hinderance to the scum's ability to win. I simply exist, and my only official objective is to keep on existing.StallingChamp wrote:Glork: - If the town eliminates all the scum, but you are alive (as well as some town), will we both win? Or will it be just you for being alive in the endgame?
- To be honest, "Don't kill me" is pretty standard, and you could have been setting up a claim. Why claim now, when you are no where near a lynch?
You're right. I technically could have set this up ahead of time. I would not say, however, that *repeated* pleas of "don't kill me" are by any means standard, especially when there has been no pressure whatsoever on that player. The thing is, it's standard for Survivors to claim early in games. Fritzler did it D1 in... I think it was a ScumChat mini or something... and the players let him stay alive. It's really necessary, since it is the *ONLY* means a Survivor has of protecting themselves; if they get lynched or killed, it's game over. The scums already know that I'm telling the truth, so they are unlikely to kill me at this point (unless I prove to be a major threat to them). Having handpicked DoS as a scumbag, the town only has to decide whether I'm pulling off amassivegambit that I would have had to plan right at the start of the game, by busing a partner and claiming Survivor.
I actually wanted to claim at the end of Day One, but I went to bed when DoS was still a few votes away from lynch, and by the time I woke up, he was dead and the thread was already locked. The only reason I am claiming is not to avoid a lynch (since, as you pointed out, I am in no danger of being lynched). It is to avoid beingnightkilled.
I don't think that the town should massclaim whether they have specific names or not. The only reason I said that yesterday is because I expected the scums to just kill off Amb. (And consequently, I was planning on claiming today because I figured I'd have no other chances of being protected.) Claiming like that only gives away more information to the scumbags. Additionally, there is no reason for you to finish claiming. The town doesn't need to know your full role (though most of us can probably guess it if we look hard enough... I believe that I already have), and making it clear/explicit to the mafia only helps them figure out what/where they should be killing.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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1. It might not be. We don't know yet.
2. That depends on who you're dealing with. Someone like AniX? Definitely power. Display authority, capability, independence, power. Most other males? Pink. Use the "I'm a girl!" factor to sway them. Females? Hell if I know.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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1. But your opinion is inherently biased.
2. Dammit.Unvote-
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I already said this, but here goes again:
I find it reasonable to believe that I was targeted for a nightkill last night, and I do not want to be nightkilled in the future. If I am killed (via nightkill or lynch), I lose, regardless of what else happens in the game. If I survive, I win -- again, regardless of what else happens in the game. My win condition is not mutually exclusive with that of the town or the scum, so if my claim is believed (which it will be believed by the scums, and it should be believed by the town), then I put myself in a position to win right here and now.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Not to my knowledge. As far as I know, I have no abilities or perks whatsoever.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I've already explained this, too. I don't *have* to lead the charge in scumhunting, and now that I've already found one scum, I don't plan on playing a huge part in scumhunting. If I think I'm becoming a big enough threat that the scums might try to kill me, I'll just tone things down for a game-day or two (like right now). I don'thaveto actively hunt scum. I've proven my worth to the town, and they have absolutely no reason to lynch me. Since I am not a threat to the town and my survival does not hurt the town's chances, lynching me is effectively a mislynch.
All I have to do is show the scums that they have no reason to nightkill me, which isIt's the best I can do given the circumstances, since I cannot stop the scums from trying to nightkill me. I basically have to trust them tonight, and if they hold up their end of the bargain (by letting me live this coming night), I'll hold up my end and not actively hunt like I was on D1.exactlywhy I'm telling them, "If you don't kill me, I won't try to screw you over in the future."
Both parties should just act as though I'm not even in the game right now. Pretend that there are 10 players alive, most likely 2 Mafiates left, and just pretend that I do not exist. It makes the most sense for everybody -- the town doesn't have to worry about me actively helping the scums, and the scums don't have to worry about me actively helping the town. I don't know how else to play the role; every other time I've seen a Survivor in a game, they've claimed early and everyone pretty much went "okay, we can ignore you and let you win."
I'm not sure why you guys are drilling me on this. Nobody seems to doubt that I'm a Survivor. Questioning me and my tactics does not help you find scum. If you actually think I have evil, ulterior motives, state that and explain why. Otherwise, I think that you havescumbagsto go find... not Survivors to pester and annoy.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Because you have no reason to use up a day lynching me. You have ACTIVE, LETHAL threats to go after, not Neutral players. Why would you use a day lynching me? Is that the thanks you plan on giving me for D1?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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How does "Lynching SurvivorGlork waste the town's time" make you doubt that I'm a Survivor at all?The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I agree that it's a waste of time to lynch you if you claim is true, and that ispreciselywhat plants a small germ of doubt in my mind.
Lynching a claimed, undisupted Doctor (Amb) would be a complete waste of the town's time. Does that make his claim less likely to be true? No. It does not.
I understand what you're trying to say, TCS. What I don't understand ishowyou're arriving at your conclusion (that I'm not "off the hook"). Your logic makes no sense to me.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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So what he's saying is that I planned on hint-dropping from the start of D1, bused a scumbuddy, and claimed just so that I won't get myself lynched in the near future.
Yeah. That's really freaking productive. Great logic there.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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A cop won't get a guilty on me because I'm not scum. I already checked this with the Mod.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Observant little bugger, aren't ya?yellowbounder wrote:I think Frozen Atlantic is implying that you are the second scum, PP.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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