NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

PeregrineV · Post Post #4625 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:10 pm

@Nacho-

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4626 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:15 pm

Hey, Hey

Peregrine

wanna follow me onto Khan?

also, why is Nacho Scum?

Bulbazak · Post Post #4627 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:42 pm

Also, why do you suspect CTD?

Unvote

I need to sleep on this and review what was said in the morning.

mastin2 · Post Post #4628 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:02 pm

I didn't think it was possible. I made multiple comments along the lines of, "Naw, they couldn't possibly do it, could they?"

I was almost certain it wasn't possible. I mean...Majiffy was ejected from the game. UberNinja's been sitebanned. MattP's not in the game. AP and I are mods, not players. We have neither buld nor bork. We don't have TheReverent, either. ActionDan's gone from the game, too! And no Vifam.

...But...I checked, I double-checked, I triple-ran the numbers, and...my god...you guys actually did it.

To my absolute shock...

...You guys actually managed to beat Posh Mafia. Day Three of this game has surpassed Day Two of Posh Mafia for the spot of third-largest day other than day one. And you're well on your ways to beating Posh Mafia's third day, too, which'd bump us up to spot number two.

...Next stop, Mafiastuck!

One-Hundred-Eleventh Votecount

:

(Forty-Fourth Votecount of Day Three,

AKA, the "Watch out for the dragon!" votecount.

)

Bulbazak - 5 (Nero Cain, Human Destroyer, Seanald, ThAdmiral, ArcAngel9)

Rena - 3 (Slandaar, ffullisade, Cephrir)

Nero Cain - 2 (CrashTextDummie, Kublai Khan)
Seanald - 2 (Desperado, penguin_alien)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Bacde)
PeregrineV - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Slandaar - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not Voting - 2 (Rena, Bulbazak)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 2:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 14:30:00).

If deadline were to hit now,

Bubazak

would be lynched.

Bulbazak and Rena are V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
The Malakittens half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until July 15th.
PeregrineV is V/LA until July 11th.
Human Destroyer is V/LA until Sunday, July 11th.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Last votecount was page 185, post 4604.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History D3

Spoiler: Votecount History D3

PeregrineV · Post Post #4629 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:35 pm

In post 4626, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Hey, Hey

Peregrine

wanna follow me onto Khan?

also, why is Nacho Scum?

Nacho is potential scum from the day1 vote/flip of Red Ryu.
He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.
Except when he takes the time to make a case on me by quoting me posts and making snide remarks about them. It's like he finally read the thread, and decided he didn't like being called out as scum.
Fourthly, should his plan go through to lynch me, he will then immediately focus on ThAd, who was his original target since 3405.
Or, I'm just plain wrong and misreading a bunch of crap. Currently a 50/50 chance.

Khan's more of a gut thing, so probably not today. It's mostly like his play has been underwhelming, and he likes to make cases on people I think are glaringly town.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #4630 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:13 pm

In post 4587, ffullisade wrote:
In post 4564, Nachomamma8 wrote:mollie what do you think about peregrine?
I have played a million games with perv and I still can't read him

but the fact that I keep forgetting that he is even playing reminds of adventure time....and all of his other games.

i was hoping someone discovered the secret

In post 4621, Kublai Khan wrote:Hmm, okay probably not.

Still, your Balbazak wagon is bad. He's very town.

I didn't like this at all.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Slandaar · Post Post #4631 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:18 pm

In post 4607, Bulbazak wrote: You never explained why you think there are 8 scum in this game.

I did actually.

In post 4607, Bulbazak wrote: The typical scum to town ratio is 1:3, which would make the number of scum in this game 6. Using that logic, there would be 3 scum per team in a multiball situation, which we seem to be in. However, you assume that there is 4. The only way I could see anyone coming to this conclusion is if they were on a scum team and
knew
that there were 4 players on the team, which means that they would anticipate 8 scum. Therefore, your statement stating that there are 4 on each team is a scumslip.

4 is a completely reasonable proposition. Always best to assume the worst scenario ie the most scum possible there is no negative side effects where with assuming lower numbers there can be.

This post shows complete naivety

In post 4608, Nero Cain wrote:probs, I was thinking the same thing. Thez also suggested "7-8 scum".

Which is an excuse Nero doesn't have. Right scum?

In post 4623, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 3244, Slandaar wrote:I think you are missing the point.

If Ryu was that obvious he would have been lynched.

So, why do you think every redscum would think Ryu was scum?

In post 4286, PeregrineV wrote:My thoughts from the vote history:
Red Ryu was either killed because Red Mafia was looking to kill Blue Mafia, or Red Mafia wanted to get rid of a strong townie.
The fact that his wagon got to 6(?) votes at one point means he couldn't have been too townie, so he was probably killed while being scumhunted by Red Mafia.
If not Seanald, then Slandaar.

Vote: Slandaar

Guess I better go check if he answered my neighbor question back somewhere.

Nice job, I do not know your point but you took my quote so far out of context it is ridiculous.

FF: Well I think Bacde isn't redscum because he didn't suspect Ryu
Sland: That doesn't mean anything; not all redscum had to suspect Ryu.

Because dismissing something on that line of reasoning is absurd.

What was your point PV?

In post 4614, Bulbazak wrote: I get the sense that he's a better scumhunter than he is displaying in this game. It's almost like he's putting in enough effort for it to look like he's scumhunting at a glance, but for the most part he's trying to stay out of the town's eye.

I have said who the scum are I can't force people to vote them. Tell me why you are not voting Rena who is the most obvious scum I have ever seen? Perhaps you can direct me to her amazing scumhunting or perhaps give me a reason she is not just scum coasting on her PR claim?

Do explain why you townread her one more time, I must have missed it previously.

In post 4571, Rena wrote: Slandaar contradicted himself in post 4444 he refers to me as the town watcher and then puts me at the top of his scumlist in post 4557. Which is it? I could definitely see Cephir as scum.

Good point, why didn't you vote me?

Oh Wait...

(It wasn't a good point I was clearly not being serious about Rena being town in 4444)

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #4632 (ISO) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 pm

In post 4629, PeregrineV wrote:He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

In post 1130, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 843, Slandaar wrote:Nacho did you know what CTD was doing?
I knew that he proposed a D1 massclaim every game.

In post 844, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Nacho, thoughts on Ryu and DLG?
Ryu seems scummier lately, but DLG is still clean.

In post 848, Oversoul wrote:People really just like wagoning me for whatever reason. I don't think I've ever gone through a game where people have not either wagoned me or suspected me for a long period of time.

When I do strange things I usually get wagoned, see AFFC where I mixed up my role PM, see 90s Cartoon Mafia where I did another gambit, see First Time Mafia where people did not necessarily wagon me for my gambit claim, but they did announce suspicion.

It isn't a tell in that "if a player gambits, they will be voted" but more so "if Oversoul does something strange, he will be voted".

I will try to give reads on the people who reacted for those who asked, but don't expect them to be timely. Also expect that post to be long.
So you did something weird so you would be wagonned, so people would attack you. Even though you thought this would happen anyway?

In post 855, Bacde wrote:@Nacho no its not a shitty gambit to do as town, if he is actually informed then its helpful for him to reveal his information ASAP. Also my reasoning is pretty much that your play in this game isn't your town play. Thats it.
1. He's not informed. The information he provided was useless.
2. You can't just say that this isn't my town play when you don't really know what the difference between my town play and scum play is.

In post 873, Red Ryu wrote:Nacho has been tunneling a read and shown he has never tried to read into intent, he has shown he wants a lynch.
You still aren't answering my question.

In post 875, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 859, Bacde wrote:Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago
guys bc is right. this is scum nacho we are seeing

VOTE: nacho
Really.

In post 933, Red Ryu wrote:Nacho claimed he was gonna lynch Oversoul because on the sole fact, he claimed informed townie and said there were two killing roles in them game.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

It should be quite the opposite, but if the possibility of him thinking this as town and just focusing hard on this is up think again.
I noticed that Oversoul was lying. I pushed him for a lynch on the basis that he was lying about his role, I could see why he would want to claim it as scum, and I couldn't see why he wanted to claim it as town.

In post 949, Red Ryu wrote:when he had no knowledge that his info was not legitimate,
I gathered his information was not legitimate because it was essentially useless. That was not really that difficult to do. Then, when it comes to light that the information was useless, you... keep pushing me. Because I didn't consider the possibility of him telling the truth. Even though he wasn't.

In post 1056, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:hey nacho there is this game you are ignoring
Not this one!

In post 1073, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Right. You on the Nacho wagon, then? Otherwise, get on it. He's been deliberately avoiding this thread; posting elsewhere and didn't even bother to check in here.
Majiffy.

In post 1124, Cephrir wrote:I'm starting to come around somewhat just based on the avoiding the thread thing. That's the only thing though.
I haven't been avoiding the thread. I wasn't around for a little while, had to play catchup elsewhere. So I saved this one for last considering there was a lot of reading to do but it's still Day 1 here.

In post 1131, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 972, Red Ryu wrote:Mafia would not figure that info out on D1 off their size when they lack to knowledge of what town has.

We could try and piece it by D3, but we still could lack info on how kills work, what if they are alternating with opposite scum teams, one gets it on odd night, the other on even nights? What if some of these were town one shots? We don't know this til claims and flip roll around. Off how many people die is not a surefire tell.
Mafia would figure out if there were two teams D1 based on size unless the teams are very uneven, which is unlikely because this is a normal game and not a theme game where powers are a lot better than numbers. We could probably piece it together on D2; town one shots don't really matter much since vigs usually use their shots early. If the only information an informed townie has is "there are at least two killing roles" and the other killing role is a town one-shot, then that information doesn't really help us much except to confirm the one-shot vig if the kill doesn't go through, which is unlikely unless he's an idiot. We don't KNOW for sure by Day 2, but 9 times out of 10 we can take a damn good guess, and we don't really need an informed townie to tell us that we're correct. That was my logic for pushing Oversoul; I knew he was lying, and, because I saw that it had more scum motivation than town motivation, I pushed him for it.

I don't even know why you think that I'm mafia for seeing through a fakeclaim and pushing someone for it; acceptable town responses are to monitor, or to put him under pressure to see how, if at all, he decides to retract his fakeclaim. In this case, Oversoul said "oh yeah it was a gambit that I did because people attack me when I do weird things" or some shit like that, so yes, I am a little hesitant to back down when until recently everything he has posted has had to do with reactions from his gambit that he hasn't really talked about or who's ignoring massclaim or gambit claim, which, if we're talking about "mechanical and fake", then Oversoul's analysis of things definitely seems like both of those.

There's this:
In post 820, Oversoul wrote:My claim was a gambit. I am not an informed townie. I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

As to why I contradicted myself, I did because I legitimately wasn't thinking when I answered the first time. I kept being vague or outright not answering the question because I wanted more people to react to my claim and unfortunately only a handful of players did.
Where "reactions" isn't really that good of a reason. Why informed townie? When
did
you decide to claim informed townie?

In post 1169, Nachomamma8 wrote:Mac seems town so far. There's not a whole lot pointing either way, but I like his interactions with fuzzy so far; fuzzy is a player that's pretty hard to nail down, and Mac has been aggressively attacking him, trying to get something out of it. I also thought the point made in #746 was pretty good.

CTD also seems fairly town so far, although his reasons for being town are a hell of a lot easier to explain. I've seen him push the massclaim idea before as scum, and this is a different beast entirely. I like that he followed up on it after I started easing up a lot (mostly his analysis), and the way his townread on me formed and then weakened a little bit was extremely transparent and townish. He was willing to defend his idea when he got a little traction, and when that traction ran out, he still found something more from it. He also easily found other things to look at and didn't stall in coming up with scumreads and townreads, regardless of his massclaiming shenanigans. He's probably town.

Cephrir's sort of gotten railroaded into defending me a couple of times, but has maintained sufficient paranoia of me the entire game. I like that because it weakens the wagon and weakens the claim on the wagon, but doesn't mean that he actually gains any cred for defending me. His attack on Thor for being overaggressive seemed a little strange, but it was a fair attack considering his mindset, and his progression from Thor to Oversoul was pretty genuine. His mid-back off from B&B seemed fairly town motivated; he was comfortable in arguing with them, but held back a little when the argument pretty much became a semantics fight. His response to B&B accusing him of having unexplained townreads was the reads list in #797, which is a fitting response to the interaction and seemed more like a "screw you" townie response than scum under pressure in the least bit, considering he wasn't under a lot of pressure and could've easily dismissed B&B or bought time by telling them to explain townreads first. Overall, fairly town.

DLG asking me if I still had an early townread on Arc before voting her was sort of strange. It was an early vote and he didn't really have any other suspects, so seeking my approval before making a vote, whether he has me as a townread or not, seems like excessive caution. The attack on ArcAngel lacked a lot as well; I don't mind attacks on someone for not scumhunting, but attacking her for spending no time to seek reasons behind why massclaim is a bad idea, or attacking her because she's posting nothing more than a compliment to the mod... that seems pretty opportunistic. His townreads disappearing on B&B and I seem like they are going away for trivial reasons, but worse is the Bulbazak scumread which comes out of nowhere that he never explains. CTD has a really good point about at the bottom of #957.

Nero Cain is trolling most of the time. Then he latched onto the third party thing, then he made fun of mollie, then he tried to bring as much attention to the situation as possible. It doesn't really seem like a particular strong scum strategy, but I sort of liked that he made an attempt to read the people he was pushing policy lynches on and is pushing a real life scumread instead of the people he generally finds scummy anyways. Town.

I seem to be pretty good at reading Bacde most days. He's probably town again.

In post 4629, PeregrineV wrote:
He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

In post 1263, Nachomamma8 wrote:Red Ryu's logic in voting me is... weird, but the rest of his posting isn't that bad. The way he's posting the case on me with the whole "he deliberately refused to even consider OS as town", frustration when arguing with Bulbazak, seems fairly genuine, especially since he continues to push me after Oversoul outed as a liar. I don't like how he's so completely and thoroughly tunneling on me in a way similar to Bacde; I would like him to give reads on other people as well.

Syryana read isn't so developed yet, although if I was forced to make a call, I'd lean town. I think that the waffling on me midgame after buddying me so hard was fairly genuine, though; it seems like a waste to butter me up so much and then stab me in the back three posts later if his aim was to get me on his side.

Desperado's early posting hurts a fair bit. Vaguely supports massclaim, sort of talks to B&B about the Nero = indy read everyone was talking about, small attack on Ryu. His first significant anything is his attack on DLG, which is a location I like, but then the whole accusation of "DLG isn't scumhunting and is being a hypocrite for expecting AA9 to scumhunt when he is not" sort of fell flat; he said DLG's townreads were surface and not good enough, but they were still townreads. It was still scumhunting, whether it was fake scumhunting or real scumhunting. Then, DLG posts a bunch while he's typing the case, Desp acknowledges as much, then posts 10 minutes later that "no, not good" while posting other things at the same time, which seems like he just waited a little while but never actually read any of DLG's posting unless he's a god of speedreading or some shit. His hop onto my wagon is awkward and doesn't have anything in his ISO hinting at it, so that will have to be explained later. Scumread.

Baby Spice has been lurking like hell, for one. Her excuse of "worrying about games that is endgaming" shows me that she's lurking and is conscious of it, but the rest of her play says that she's pretty okay with lurking hard as shit. I hate the "wall battle doesn't look like town v town but B&B is scum" bit, and she tosses out reads so randomly that I can't really see a thought process behind any of it. Lean scum, but not heavily.

I don't understand why it took Slandaar so long to start attacking me based on massclaim discrepancies, considering he brought it up early then sort of postured for a while, then jumped on my wagon when it started to gain momentum. His posting elsewhere has been just weak as shit; he's thrown out a few random reads, but he took FOREVER to vote for some reason and he's probably scum.

In post 1477, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1319, Desperado wrote:can you explain how you are using this as a scumtell (presumably?) on me when you just said this?
It was an explanation of the earlier post. He's not scumhunting that much, but he's definitely scumhunting.

In post 1319, Desperado wrote:Your final point about me either a) not reading or b) being a speed reader is just...weird. If I c/p'd all four of DLG's posts into Word, how many words do you think it would be? A few thousand? I can read multiple pages in ten minutes. Your assumption that I didn't read his posts because enough time did not elapse inbetween me saying I would and saying that they did nothing to alleviate my scumread on him just strikes me as a lazy attempt to discredit me. Have I given an indication elsewhere in this thread that I'm not reading it?
Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. I might be different, but I focus a hell of a lot closer on suspect's posting than everyone else, and reading DGB's post would take a little longer than that for me. I guess what I found strange was not that you read it that quickly, but that you read it that quickly AND decided you didn't see anything worth commenting on in that chunk.

In post 1319, Desperado wrote:One last thing...CTD proposed the mass claim that I'm scummy for "vaguely supporting" (what was vague about "I support a mass claim for all of the reasons Crash outlined in his big post about it", btw?) and his case on DLG is very similar to mine, yet you have him as town and me as scum. Can you explain that?
CTD didn't say that you vaguely supported massclaim, and his DLG case had absolutely nothing to do with why I found him town.

In post 1348, CrashTextDummie wrote:I question his current vote, not just because it's on someone I read as town and unlikely to lead anywhere, but also because there's a good wagon waiting to happen on his second choice, DLG.
I think that DLG and Desp are unlikely partners at this point, so I'd rather take care of the stronger scumread first.

In post 1354, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:and what is practically a billboard is his hedge on spice girl; he should be all over that shit cos those are the kind of things he tries to push for in a lynch. spice girl is doing the same thing that a player in another game did and he was all over her (KISS) and he was correct for being so. so it makes me think there is a spice girl/nacho association in there somehow, not sure what to make of it. especially since she beetlejuiced him into the thread. it almost read like a "hey buddy if you keep avoiding the thread you are going to get lynched so get in here!" call out.
You're right about me not picking up on the Baby Spice read harder than I should have been.

In post 1354, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:town nacho has yet to reach out to me and this is something that town nacho usually does even if it is to just say "hey mollie I am town now stfu and stop being difficult"
You're not being difficult this game.

In post 1412, Bacde wrote:Have you ever played with nacho before? He's not a useless player

There's a reason he's playing the way he's playing this game--he's scum
Useless is not the word for it.

In post 1448, thezmon221 wrote:Nacho, why did you post 5 analyses, and then wait another... 26-27 hours before posting the rest?
My laptop broke and I'm forced to play mafia in a public library. I got kicked out.

In post 1958, Nachomamma8 wrote:Desperado, I don't want you to repeat yourself; I want you to explain why you suddenly decided to push AA9 even though your vote likely wasn't going to generate a wagon and your suspicions on me were much more solid. "Your wagon wasn't going anywhere" doesn't explain why you decided to switch. Yes, you liked Syryana's AA9 meta case, but it didn't push AA9 up to your DLG suspicion level. Why did you want to push on her and show your support for THAT wagon, as opposed to voting DLG to show your support for him? Why did you switch back to me once you started to get votes? The number of votes on you doesn't change the fact that the wagon on me "wasn't going anywhere", does it?

And again, that's not why I'm townreading DLG. If you remember, YOU were the one that kept bringing CTD's DLG case up. Look at the exchange:

Spoiler: CTD's case on DLG
In post 1319, Desperado wrote:One last thing...CTD proposed the mass claim that I'm scummy for "vaguely supporting" (what was vague about "I support a mass claim for all of the reasons Crash outlined in his big post about it", btw?) and his case on DLG is very similar to mine, yet you have him as town and me as scum. Can you explain that?

In post 1477, Nachomamma8 wrote:CTD didn't say that you vaguely supported massclaim, and his DLG case had absolutely nothing to do with why I found him town.

In post 1509, Desperado wrote:Good thing I didn't say that CTD said that? Read the sentence again. I said that CTD proposed the mass claim that you said I was scummy for "vaguely supporting" the idea of even though I was not vague about my position whatsoever. And are you sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with it? Because you said that "He also easily found other things to look at and didn't stall in coming up with scumreads and townreads," and I'm pretty sure his case on DLG falls into that category. If his case on DLG was good enough to prove to you that he was doing other things and coming up with scumreads, and it was very similar to mine, why is he a townread and me a scumread?

In post 1640, Nachomamma8 wrote:It wasn't his case on DLG alone. He's pushed DLG in a way that's better than the way you pushed it. Reads are much more than one case. Stop asking these questions because they are scummy as hell.

In post 1665, Desperado wrote:And I wasn't making I point, I was being sarcastic because I knew that Nacho had just lied. CTD's case on DLG absolutely played into Nacho's townread on him (as I pointed out), which leads me to believe that he was just saying that in response to my question to discredit it from the start (that point is invalid because it isn't even relevant!) Except it was relevant, so now he has to switch to "CTD's push on his DLG case was better than yours," which was not his original assertion. Do you get it? He lied and got caught, so I pointed it out cheekily.

In post 1668, Nachomamma8 wrote:You took one of the last two sentences that are not the essence of the case at all. You also took what was a very vague statement and railroaded it into "CTD's case on DLG", which, again, was not what I said.

You tried to deflect my scumread on you by comparing yourself to CTD and his case on DLG. I said, no, that wasn't why I found CTD town. You pointed to a vague sentence that included all of CTD's cases (doesn't imply that I found one case more convincing than the other, doesn't imply that it's a significant part), and I pointed out that his case on DLG was different & better than yours, and that my read on CTD wasn't solely based on that one case on DLG. You then go onto "CAUGHT YOU LYING CAUGHT YOU LYING" even though that the original assertion was that it didn't make sense I had different reads on you and CTD even though you both had similar cases on DLG, and I pointed out that it doesn't really have anything to do with my read on CTD. Yes, it's a piece of the read, but not a significant one. Just like you were focusing pretty much exclusively on me before you vote AA9. Not absolutely 100% focusing on me, but pretty close.

In post 4629, PeregrineV wrote:
He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

In post 2185, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 749, Baby Spice wrote:Thor is town. Him I can read.
This is strange as fuck. I finally went through their games together, and there's like 1 where there's both town and have mutual townreads; Baby Spice doesn't really show her prowess to read Thor anywhere then I can find.

In post 749, Baby Spice wrote:Page 19 and reading.
Perpetual catchup, never reads shit but always lies and says she does.

In post 1128, Baby Spice wrote:Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.
Potshot when I'm gone for literally two days.

In post 1345, Baby Spice wrote:I think I've mis-read Thor once in the last two years, a current game he replaced into.
You've played 4 games together.

In post 1564, Baby Spice wrote:Nacho's spent a lot of the game with a decent vote count. Nacho does appear to be doing what Bacde accuses him of, ignoring Bacde and defending against others. Could be because Bacde is tunneling like he's part of the great escape, and pushing that as a defense is better than actually defending.
original suspicion of me is because of the Bacde case she "doesn't care about" later.

In post 1706, Baby Spice wrote:Didn't get my iso read done though. Nanna nap won out
Last we hear of the mystical ISO read.

In post 1787, Baby Spice wrote:Vote Nacho

Since Bc asked so nicely.
this doesn't come when Bacde said he was bussing me.
this came when Bacde called me out for not being happy with my reads and telling him to follow them when he died.
the idea that BS saw Bacde's bus post was the reason the BS is voting me is bullshit

In post 1907, Baby Spice wrote:Desperado,
why don't you come to your senses.
You've been sitting on fences
for so long now

Seriously thought, you've hardly mentioned him nor what you find scummy about him.
speaking of which, who dances around the Desperado lynch like a ballerina?
she's not scary spice.

In post 2063, Baby Spice wrote:
In post 2061, Bacde wrote:
In post 2059, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2057, Baby Spice wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26373

Just read page one.
Zoidberg wasn't scum?
thank you for existing
Troll lol lol lol lol.

But the person Bc was voting at the time, from two or three posts above, was.
I don't know why the fuck it matters who he votes before he says he's bussing everyone, but the fact that she latches onto THIS and ignores bacde making the bussing claim as town is complete and fucking bullshit. She'd notice in the other game that Bacde didn't go on a gigantic bussing spree and push his partners like he's pushing me here
then i found bacde making the bussing joke in another game
does she pay attention to it?
nope

In post 2172, Baby Spice wrote:I found that previous instance quite a while ago but I was hoping your lynch would go through and when you flipped scum I could bring it up D2 and get your buddy more easily. Since it looks like that lynch is not going to happen, I mentioned it.
BS thinks she found me and a partner
she doesn't bring it up the next day so she could get my partner more easily?
hahahaha fuck that noise

In post 3166, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3079, Thor665 wrote:6. This is also true. Except you should add 'with Mollie, as usual, twisting reality - and then claiming someone else is twisting reality.' Like we've been doing.
Why do scum lie? Because they can get away with it?

In post 3088, Bacde wrote:Seriously how is nacho capable of missing my case on thezmon?
Because you can be very mean to me sometimes and my feelings are very hurt.

In post 3089, Thor665 wrote:It's gut at the moment, he feels like he's legit working, not fake working.
How? What posts look the happiest to you?

In post 3089, Thor665 wrote:She lies about things she's done to avoid explaining them and fakes emotional breakdowns as town?
Links to any examples?
That's not at all what I work with because I form my reads differently. Mollie-scum v Nacho town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25914
Mollie-sympathetic to scum third party v Nacho town:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27515

Mollie town w/Nacho scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4879542

Mollie disinterested town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4691507

Intensely paranoid Mollie:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4705343

And whereas I can't peg the head of Majiffy, I sure as hell can see and read scum fferyllt. Sometimes oh yeah she does refuse to explain emotional breakdowns, see Posh Mafia (the last one) when she gets insanely paranoid of me. She was like "yeah, never gonna get you lynched, we're done ".
But really, I want you to look at the difference between her scumgame and her towngame. And if you don't see it, I'm actually just going to lynch you because jesus fucking christ. Lying, refusing to explain emotional breakdowns, that's different in an audio game. My face to face game is not at all like these beautiful written words; my metas are not reflections.
So sell me that what you know of her is better than what I know of her. What happened in Mainstream Mafia? Did Mollie lie a lot? Was she aggressive as fuck? Did she take a hard lead as a cult leader? Or did Majiffy shut her up and control the game himself. You failed to accept Majiffy's reachouts, why?

In post 3089, Thor665 wrote:don't really have a legit town read on you.
I have a 'I don't think his bad play is proof he's scum' read on you.
But I'm willing to see the links you'll show me.
Welp if I'm good enough to be left alive for another day you'll work with me so we can avoid our retard fights in the future.

In post 3093, Desperado wrote:Yeah I can see that. What is the your #1 reason for AKscum?
the she feels more passive than usual even though we should've touched bases, we should've been getting scum together by now
her reads are janky as fuck; her reads on me and oversoul were fairly strange and she backed off, jumped on at a WEIRD time

In post 3106, Amethyst Kitty wrote:All of them? cuz that's alot of explaining
Explain the 5 you were proudest of getting.

In post 3105, Slandaar wrote:How many times have I said this now?
Probably something like 20 times and I didn't really like any of them.

In post 3112, Nero Cain wrote:I also want to chime in about the Mollie slot. Mollie gets constantly read as scum and Jiffy knows it. In this game (link below) Ma Jiffy put a leash on Mollie to avoid suspicion. Bacde already brought up the fact that they could be switching their meta around to fool us.
that's not how meta works nero

In post 3165, Bacde wrote:I didn't realize that you were talking about my case on nacho, which is understandable that you don't want to follow it

Vote: thezmon

In post 3996, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:So why was it not scummy on days 1 and 2? Why was my attack on Rena scummy but you didn't question any of the other players that followed me onto Rena?
It wasn't as scummy on Day 1 and Day 2 because I had other people in mind and I liked you from our exchange about mollie earlier. Now, I'm not so sure. I questioned you because I found your trail onto Rena suspect; I didn't pay attention to the others.

In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.
Seems pretty trutful to me considering he ended up replacing out not too long after.

In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:IDK, I think all three of you are scummy. This whole "guess who my buddies are" is just cheeky scum trying to squirm out of a lynch.
It's me trying to figure out your thought process.

In post 3869, PeregrineV wrote:
Vote: Nacho

Why are you totally ignoring my request?
I didn't. I'm not necessarily completely complying with it, but I didn't ignore it.

In post 3870, Desperado wrote:Nacho, why don't you want to lynch AK anymore?
They seem town to me.

In post 3900, ThAdmiral wrote:In all seriousness though I tried to be useful about 10-15 pages back with some wagon analysis, and that is when everyone jumped on me.
So instead of taking it as "we see the content you're producing and we don't really like it" you took it as "stop producing content"? Come on now.

In post 3909, Amethyst Kitty wrote:I am also under the impression that he is a better player than this.
This is one of those things that always lead down bad bad roads. He might be a better player than you expect even though you don't agree with his reasoning, and he might be completely on track. On the other hand, he might not be used to this and it's frying his scumdar, OR you might be holding him up to unrealistic explanations. I've never really listened to this kind of reasoning unless people have had personal experience with the person before saying something like this.

In post 3912, Amethyst Kitty wrote:No, never mind. Peregrine is town

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>
Why is this?

In post 3950, Seanald wrote:UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.
Mollie, I didn't like this at all.

In post 3962, penguin_alien wrote:I just don't buy that he's a vig.
Do you think that he's a serial killer? Otherwise, there's no reason you should vote him today.

ThAdmiral · Post Post #4633 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:22 am

^^ fuck is all that?

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #4634 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:18 am

PV you're trolling..
Nacho is not scum!!!

Desperado · Post Post #4635 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:25 am

In post 4634, ThAdmiral wrote:^^ fuck is all that?

Looks to me like Nacho is challenging peregrine's accusation that he's been useless.

Nero Cain · Post Post #4636 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:56 am

In post 4632, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4608, Nero Cain wrote:probs, I was thinking the same thing. Thez also suggested "7-8 scum".
Which is an excuse Nero doesn't have. Right scum?

right 'cause I never suggested a 8 man scum team.

Nero Cain · Post Post #4637 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:57 am

errr 2 4-man teams, 8 scum in all.

Nero Cain · Post Post #4638 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:58 am

In post 4635, ArcAngel9 wrote:PV you're trolling..
Nacho is not scum!!!

Why does Nacho lie then?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Desperado · Post Post #4639 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:39 am

OK I read enough of NY 163 to see town Bulb here.

Thad's jump onto Bulb's wagon was terrible. In #4065 Thad "will not lynch" bulb:

In post 4065, ThAdmiral wrote:Ok Imma try and sort out my reads.

Will not lynch:
pere
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade

In #4087 he responds to Bulb's question like he's a townread and joins the Seanald wagon:

In post 4087, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 4081, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 4065, ThAdmiral wrote: killing at night:
crashtextdummy
Why?
Honestly I'm leery that everyone thinks he is town (even though I used to). Looking back I don't see much to imply he's as towny as everyone says he is.

--~~--

Seanald wagon seems good enough for me.

vote: seanald

Then in #4494, with no further interaction, Thad says:

In post 4494, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 4442, Bulbazak wrote:
Vote Nero Cain

Okay, here's the plan. I'm assuming that town has a protective role of some sort. What I'm asking is that CTD be protected during the night phase, since he is essentially def. town, and we'll need him in the upcoming days. With that, the ball is in your court ThAd. If you really are the vig., you should know that this upcoming night phase is likely to be the only one to prove yourself. You can shoot at whoever you think is scum or is harmful to the town (although it might not hurt to ask for suggestions from the town itself, being that you outed yourself and all), however, should you aim at CTD, you will be wasting your shot. Anybody else is okay (even me), as there is enough contention with the rest of the player list as to gain useful information from a flip.

CTD, I'd still find those reads/final thoughts useful, just in case. Should the wagon get to L-1, I'll try to keep the hammer off long enough for you to get as much information as you want out. If anybody quickhammers with this in mind, I will make it my mission to lynch them.
Don't try to direct night actions. I think Nero might be right about you, you're a bad egg.

Nero you're town aren't you?

Reminder: Nero has been discussing directing Thad's night action as early as #3838:

In post 3838, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3837, Desperado wrote:Thad claims X-Shot, not 2-Shot
this is correct.

I'm think THAD is scum based on his role claim but the extra kills could be useful. I don't think I want to kill him today.

In #4503 bulb is back in Thad's townpile:

In post 4503, ThAdmiral wrote:quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

And then in #4558 he responds to CTD calling him out on the above contradiction:

In post 4558, ThAdmiral wrote:In post 4537, CrashTextDummie wrote:
In post 4503, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 4499, ffullisade wrote:
@ thad

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

In post 4494, ThAdmiral wrote:
Don't try to direct night actions. I think Nero might be right about you, you're a bad egg.

Clearly he's not even paying attention to what he's writing himself.

Yeah, I just copy-pasted that from an earlier post. Take bulb off there.

^He says he copy/pasted from an earlier page, but as you can see above he added Nero and myself to his town list. It was clearly meant to be updated list, and it hadn't even been ten posts since he told Bulb not to direct his night action. I don't buy it.

Can we just lynch him now? Enough with this leashing shit.

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

Kublai Khan · Post Post #4640 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:14 am

Willing to lynch within {Amethyst Kitty, Nero Cain, PeregrineV}
Will compromise at last minute to lynch {Slandaar, Seanald, Human Destroyer}
Not willing to lynch anyone outside that.

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #4641 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:16 am

Khan, Nero is not scum, AA is not getting lynched today. God knows what PV is.. He is not showing interest...
We are running out of time.. the deadline is near....VOTE Bulb with us..

Kublai Khan · Post Post #4642 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:19 am

There's about 28 hours to go. I think Bulbazak is much townier than Nero Cain.

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #4643 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:21 am

Believe me.. Nero is town. Huge META read!!

Kublai Khan · Post Post #4644 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:27 am

In-game behavior trumps META reads.

Nero Cain · Post Post #4645 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:35 am

What have I done or are you just sheeping?

Bulbazak · Post Post #4646 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:42 am

In post 4632, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4607, Bulbazak wrote: You never explained why you think there are 8 scum in this game.
I did actually.

So your reason when previously asked about it was that you thought PV and Desp. were on a scumteam together, even though they are both in separate neighborhoods in a normal game? And the reasoning for that was, "I have reasoning, but I don't feel like saying what it is and backing up my absurd accusation which I just made up."? Yeah, not buying it.

In post 4632, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4607, Bulbazak wrote: The typical scum to town ratio is 1:3, which would make the number of scum in this game 6. Using that logic, there would be 3 scum per team in a multiball situation, which we seem to be in. However, you assume that there is 4. The only way I could see anyone coming to this conclusion is if they were on a scum team and
knew
that there were 4 players on the team, which means that they would anticipate 8 scum. Therefore, your statement stating that there are 4 on each team is a scumslip.
4 is a completely reasonable proposition. Always best to assume the worst scenario ie the most scum possible there is no negative side effects where with assuming lower numbers there can be.

Actually, it's in town's best interest to assume the best case scenario, i.e. Shaheed's Law, and in the event that we're wrong, we can always recalibrate on the fly. Scum tends to congregate on preparing for the town's worst case scenario, since that is what they need in order to win. Therefore, assume 1 team until it becomes evident that it's multiball, and assume a ratio of 1:3 until it becomes evident that you're wrong. Scum will react in the opposite way, and then we can catch them and lynch them.

In post 4632, Slandaar wrote: I have said who the scum are I can't force people to vote them.

I think it's funny that you have been calling me scum all game for saying something similar, and then when you are called out on doing little scumhunting, your reasoning is, "Well, I can't make people do anything.".

In post 4632, Slandaar wrote: Tell me why you are not voting Rena who is the most obvious scum I have ever seen? Perhaps you can direct me to her amazing scumhunting or perhaps give me a reason she is not just scum coasting on her PR claim?

Do explain why you townread her one more time, I must have missed it previously.

Her posts have felt genuine and have given me an overall town feel. I have never understood the case on her, and whenever I asked people to elaborate on it, they refused to do so. As far as I understand, it's based on Fuzzy's early posts, which are taken out of context given the nature of ISOs. If anybody has anything more than that, I'd like to hear it.

Vote Slaandar

Nero, do you want to join me in lynching scum?

Nero Cain · Post Post #4647 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:52 am

Slandaar is a good lynch, I still don't trust you as town though. I think your "Nero deflected but no one else did!!" is silly and scummy and that whole "Thad can vig anyone but CTD" seems incredibly lazy.

For me, I think Rena is coasting big time. She's not answering my questions and her posts have a prod dodgy feel to them.

Nero Cain · Post Post #4648 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:05 am

This is your vig pool Thad. I planned on giving lil' blurbs but I'm incredibly lazy all the sudden so this have to do for now.

2. Cephrir
3. Nachomam8
6. Bacde
7. Bulbazak
10. Slandaar
13. Rena
14. Kublai Khan
15. Amethyst Kitty
16. ffullisade

Desperado · Post Post #4649 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:08 am

That vig pool is absolutely awful

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>