Micro 193 - HD had a Greater Idea (Mafia)! [GAME OVER]

[Mac]

HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK GRIM YOU ARE STILL FUCKING TUNNELING

[ChannelDelibird]

It's posts like 194 that

are

my case, Grim. You're being so mechanical. "You can't get me lynched, you have no case." "Conspiracy Theorist is a convenient claim for scum so the fact that Mac has claimed it means that he should be lynched." You're completely uninterested in

how

people say things, only

what

they say.

[Mac]

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

claimed

town

conspiracy theorist

.. and you still think I claimed alien? are you for fucking real?

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

IT COMES UP THREE FUCKING TIMES, ONE OF WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED?!

A ROLE THATS BETTER THAN MY DISCARD? EVERY FUCKING ROLE IS BETTER THAN VT.

well it could be proven if I found the alien, but if there's no alien..? WELCOME TO GREATER IDEA.

of course it does.

KEEP FUCKING TUNNELING, I CAN GO ALL NIGHT

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh boy. Mac is lookin town with that explosion.

First thoughts on a bit of rereading are making me lean grim, especially a lot of the wifom-based conclusions he's come to in order to justify his votes/arguments. I'll try to get something more indepth to you tonight. I dont remember if i was voting anyone so UNVOTE: until i can get to that.

[Grimgroove]

It's posts like 194 that

are

my case, Grim. You're being so mechanical. "You can't get me lynched, you have no case." "Conspiracy Theorist is a convenient claim for scum so the fact that Mac has claimed it means that he should be lynched." You're completely uninterested in

how

people say things, only

what

they say.

Don't diss my style. "What" people say is objective, you can do something with it. You can check if something is plausible or not, laws of logic and all that.
"How" people say it, that's grey territory. You say I'm mechanical, I say I'm rational. You say I'm spectatory, I say I'm objectively analyzing things.

What you have just described is a posting style. Town can be "mechanical" as you put it. Just as how scum can be just repeating reads hoping someone will simply pick it up (trollie) and play on meddling with the instincts.

We'll see where your "case" goes, but I am unworried. And not just because I think you won't get a long enough wagon on me. Even if you do I'll make it dissipate.

But I'd prefer a lynch on Mac, plain and simple. Mechanical or not, the things I've said are ture. That's why you call them as coming from a machine. Machines are straightforward, direct, and give logical conclusions.

Why would you not follow logic Channel? Give me a good reason. I need reasons.

[Grimgroove]

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

claimed

town

conspiracy theorist

.. and you still think I claimed alien? are you for fucking real?

You claimed a role that gets checked as an alien, pretty convenient in case you are, in fact, an alien.
Of course I didn't think you claimed an alien, that would have been suicide. Do you think I can't read?

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

IT COMES UP THREE FUCKING TIMES, ONE OF WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED?!

A ROLE THATS BETTER THAN MY DISCARD? EVERY FUCKING ROLE IS BETTER THAN VT.

well it could be proven if I found the alien, but if there's no alien..? WELCOME TO GREATER IDEA.

of course it does.

KEEP FUCKING TUNNELING, I CAN GO ALL NIGHT

I'm sure you can. I can't. My laptop is heating up. You didn't really deny that my argument makes sense here, you just shouted a bit.

There's theoreitcally the possibility that there's two CT's. Even if there's another one inhere, he can't counterclaim.

It's a very poor claim, and considering your earlier scumminess it's not a surprise I'm "tunneling" you. You wouldn't have believed me if the tables were turned, and you know it.

Some people call that a sincere explosion, I call it a poor act.

[Mac]

I shouted because they don't MAKE SENSE. why would I be shouting if they did?

seriously, are you trying to fucking upset me?

I may not have believed you but I wouldn't come up with a list of false arguments which, by the way, are fucking obviously false and you shouldn't even need me to explain why

[Grimgroove]

so many p-edits. let me get to them.

your case is shit grimgroove, and you are starting to anger me

Going to get into your wall tomorrow, my laptop is at a very high temperature and will shut down soon. And so will I.

But why the addition of "you're starting to anger me"? Why the anger?

If you think I'm scum, you wouldn't need to be angry. It would be part of my role to try to get you lynched.

The fact that you're angry proves that you think I'm town being stupid and tunneling.

But I don't think you're angry in the first place. You're just frustrated that I caught you.

[Grimgroove]

I shouted because they don't MAKE SENSE. why would I be shouting if they did?

Because you can't reply to them when it comes to the substance. So you go for the form in order to convince and appeal to people. In this case: all caps.

If there's anything mechanical inhere, it's your "emotional" reactions.

[ChannelDelibird]

I've been playing this game for years. Do you think I vote for everyone who applies logic to things?

No. I am specifically voting for you because I believe that you are hiding behind these things. You are sitting back and looking for actions that could be construed as coming from scum rather than really trying to figure out whether they are thinking like scum. You are doing this because you know any lynch will do as long as it is not your own. You are doing it because you are trying to do things which have the least possible risk of incriminating yourself.

[TheTrollie]

yo dude lets lynch grimm now!

[Guyett]

vote for him then... or do you really want to hammer?
you are not very committing with votes onto a wagon are you haha

[Guyett]

sorry I'm an idiot... just seen you're already on him /derp moment

[Guyett]

Spoiler: lots of quotes

@Grim I'm not particularly fond of people voting without giving reason, to me it looks like you can't think of a good enough reason yet and you're taking a lazy easy option.

however I like your readings on Mac in post 152

I think my reads prove that I had reasons all along.
Do you think I'd take the risk simply calling someone scum wityhout having any reasons for it? I could have gone for the "argument" that I was reaction testing, but I shot down that possibility myself by actively rooting for his lynch. I had reasons from the very start, but simply chose not to give them yet. Partially out of laziness. But lazy doesn't make me scum.

I've only got two town-reads so far, two leaning scum, one scum, the rest is null.

... I kind of covered that in my post?!? you say you had reasons all along but you only posted it long after your vote... like I said you vote for someone without reason and later you post reasons when you think some up.

How could I be sure that "I'd think something up", if I couldn't at the time of my vote? That would be stupidly risky, don't you think?

Do you find my thoughts on Mac's initial votes (from before my vote on him) compelling?

Or do you get the feeling they are artificial and "thought up"?

what thoughts?
before this

I'm being honest.

Aren't we all?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mac

the only time you mentioned mac was acknowledging a correction on the sex of ETL and this post where you agree with Mac!!!

For Especially The Lies: What you say is true, but from the list of discarded roles, I think Town Roleblocker looks like the most interesting town-aligned role that got discarded. "Interesting" is indeed personal, but I think few will disagree. I find it interesting EspeciallyTheLies immediately starts defending this choice by claiming she (thank you for pointing that out Mac :p) doesn't know how to play that role well. I don't find this a compelling reason.

Yeah I didn't quite get the defence either. could be seen

as an early scum attempt to throw people off the case

but then again it could just be the truth. why would ETL defend against something she wasn't under pressure from?

You answered your own question. But like I said, clarifying a choice is not the problem for me. Even though DrDoLittle and I both have our doubts surrounding EspeciallyTheLies, we have them for different reasons.

As opposed to DrDoLittle I don't find the forcedness a problem: I can see town feeling equally compelled to state a reason for not picking the roleblocker. But I just don't like the reason. There's nothing especially difficult about being a roleblocker. and even if there were, picking the role would provide one with the chance to actually learn some of the mechanics (if there are any) better.

roleblocker is a hell of an annoying role to play because it's easy to manipulate. It's not the worst role for me in the world but I find it frustrating. I discovered this fact in a micro game a month ago when I was a roleblocker and manipulated into lynching town. we lost. and again, it come down to a difference of opinion

What does this have to do with the role of roleblocker? You can just as easily be manipulated as a doctor or any other role for that matter. Even as a confirmed sane cop you can still be manipulated, even when you hold extra information.

I don't like your reasoning son and you are tunneling on Mac.

UNVOTE: mac
FOS: Mac (and still on Cheery)
VOTE: Grim

[DrDolittle]

^ Those gotta be the worst fucking reasons to put someone on L-1. Also, please call out L-1.

VOTE: Guyet

[DrDolittle]

Okay. Guyet's vote gotta be one of the most opportunistic there is.
You say that C-Dog and Mac are the most scummy, and Grim is "light scum". And now you're telling me that with those shitty reasons, Grim has moved to super scum?!
It's not deadline yet. There is no reason to compromise. Putting your vote on a established and easy wagon is exactly what scum would do.

[DrDolittle]

All along, Guyet's been focusing on Mac - even recently, he says that he trusts Grim more, and that the claim made no sense. WTF is this 180 degree flip? Why are we not lynching him?

[DrDolittle]

Also fuck Jason's promise, he's been posting everywhere but here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. I'm here now. I'm gonna ISO people and give some quick and dirty reads because I have to go to bed and wake up early for work. I'd actually enjoy the chance to talk through some of my reads with people. Since we're not close to deadline, I probably will not be much fun until the weekend, but I'll try at least to keep up on the reading and pop in when I have something to add, but otherwise, my apologies in advance for being a shmucky lurker. Reads incoming.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yeah i'm too tired to do this right now. I'm sorry. tomorrow.

[Cheery Dog]

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

To be guilty as a conspiracy theorist or alien you need either another conspiracy theorist or bloodhound.

[Cheery Dog]

Anyway, I'm going back to the jason vote, his play is too similar to how he was playing in vengeball where he was a role that if lynched causes him to loree.
I expect him to therefore be the only one in hits scum team.

vote jason

[JasonWazza]

You check if i have town meta for doing this CD?

No?

Then maybe you fucking should, catching up now.

[JasonWazza]

In that the questions you're asking only seem to pop up when you spot something that you ought to or simply can safely ask about, rather than following a pattern of actually proactively hunting for scum.

Who do you think is most likely to be scum?

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way.
ETL isn't doing much which is odd.
Cheery could also be scum too, I didn't like his Jason vote which came across as an effort to appear like he was doing something.

Since when is it scum motivated though?

How is ETL not doing much odd?

I'm a bit meh on cherry myself.

Jason, you can't apply cookie-cutter tells to people and go "I think x is generically scummy, so anyone who does x is scummy for doing it". People are different and, if you want to vote for me, you have to explain why I, specifically, am more likely to be scum than town. If you accept that I ask about alignment preferences at the start of Greater Idea games all the time, then it simply does not logically follow that doing it in this game makes me more likely to be scum than town. I am not asking you to take it as a towntell. I am pointing out that it can only be a null tell on me.

That's not what i'm saying.

I am saying you shouldn't do scummy things (CAUSE IT'S STILL A SCUMMY THING) all the time to get meta to agree it's a null tell, you shouldn't have to refer to meta like this, stop doing it instead and do thing's that are pro-town

I'm not advocating that we spent time NOW talking about preferences, for the record. I wish more people had answered me earlier on but we've got more pressing matters at hand. Just to clear up any confusion.

The answer's won't help us at any point.

Instead they create WIFOM later on.

I'm here. Just reading and stuff. I had my college graduation and i was drinking for 15 hours. I drunk hammered someone in another game which was silly so i decided to not post here until i sorted my shit out. I am still happy with my vote

(Don't mention ongoing games)

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting (i think ^this^) but im at work so i cant check right now

You're not dumb but it would help if you voted for Mac!

I voted for Grimgroove because it looked like he was watching and summarising rather than playing. I think Mac is worse.

As much as i hate people summarizing, how is it scummy, over just anti-town?

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

This seems pretty scummy, you assumed this straight up without considering possible being town?

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

1. Not nessecarilly, you could gamble on a single pick one and out a power role, or have a 100/109 in not being counter claimed (chance the card wasn't drawn given the discard knowledge)
2. His discard VT this point is null and void.
3. MOST roles can't be proven, your point is null and void.
4. Possible, but a stupid reason to suspect a claim.

[Cheery Dog]

You check if i have town meta for doing this CD?

No?

Then maybe you fucking should, catching up now.

I can't see any town games you've recently played where you have done this no.

Would you like to bring the apparent one I'm missing to my attention?