Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[enomis]

Hi guys. I only have mobile access to this thread today. I will probably post a catch up post tmr. Meanwhile I will just read thru the thread.

good to be in this game.

[enomis]

I can say RachMarie's Lurking is a null tell because i am currently in THREE ongoing games with her. IN ALL THREE GAMES, SHE DID NOT HAVE AN ARGUMENT AT ALL/WEAK ARGUMENT. THUS SHE LURKING NOW IS A NULL TELL.
You have to take my word for it as we cannot discuss ongoing games.

Now why is Rach scum? I skimmed abit and it seems to be her lurking/ having weak argument? I did not bother to read through everything. It it too much. I find that i will do better by interacting.

I seemed to read somewhere that syr think Grimgroove made a scum slip.

If you think he made a scumslip, why are you preferring Rach over him? You could have explained this but explain again because there is simply too much to read and too little time.

[enomis]

Homer, you seem to have syr as scum. Yet you are preferring Rach over him why?

[enomis]

People who is online now come interact with me. Ignite your motivation come on.

[enomis]

@Core:
Even after what i told you about Rach, You think her lurking is scummy?

[enomis]

Hey Eno, I realize you can't read everything from the game, but since the start of D2 not that much has been said so maybe it would be a good start to just read everything from page 26, which makes it only 7 pages with few walls.

RachMarie's lurking is one of the main problems yes, and even though it's not a tell and she's lurking in other games too, I also met her in another game where she was town, and was more valiantly trying to avoid being lynched. Here she's at L-1, but check up on her latest posts. It's as if she's not even aware of that situation. She just talks about some general IC-stuff.

The only game content she has provided so far is a case on Syryana, which was very poor in all aspects. Whether or not this is bussing or grasping at a straw for getting a wagon going on on someone who's been under scutiny for a long time is still a dilemma, but what is clear for me is that her case on Syryana is NOT the result of scumhunting.

She's beenv ery lazy throughout this game,y et she claims to have an erntire meta-study on Syryana. This doesn't compute at all. The case is artificial and rubbish.

What if i tell you She is the same in the other two games? Talking about IC stuff and shit and ignoring arguments. I shall stop here.

She is legit sick. Do you have other arguments?

Her case on Syr seems to be what she feel about Syr at first glance. Because she did not have much time, She glance at Syr who is the largest wagon, compare it with his meta in her head, decides Syr is scummy. Looks ok to me? What you think about this point? She obv can't spend time reading and scumhunting due to her condition.

[enomis]

Homer, you seem to have syr as scum. Yet you are preferring Rach over him why?

1. Please read my 735 (The question David never answered was in my 713).

2. This game has been inactive for a long long time. I do have syr on my scum list (or at least I did). The reason I changed my vote can be found in my 664.

3. mothrax is a non-active player and she has no excuse for not saying

anything

during day 2.

4. About Rach, she's on L-1 for a very long time and never say

anything

about it. That is not something you can dismiss by "oh, it's just Rach being Rach".

Its not Rach being Rach. It's that she is BLATANTLY SICK. She acts the same way in 3 ONGOING games with me. Unless you tell me there is a high likelyhood that she is scum in all three. You seem to be finding lurker instead of scum?

[enomis]

You want to lynch Rach because She "MAYBE" lurking back and seeing you and syr fight it out? I can understand you unvoting Syr and vote one of the lurkers to get something out of them but lynching a lurker instead of who you think is scummy(who you gave benefit of doubt)--> What?... Isn't right.

[enomis]

You cannot dismiss all these arguments by her being sick. I was with her in the Micro-game 181, and yes, there too she wasn't the most active of the bunch. There too she didn't have many cases or arguments. But she did participate much more, she did defend herself, and she did give out reads that made sense within the confines of the game.

Calling that case she had on Syryana the result of a first glance is silly. Even though she hasn't been highly active, she's been with us since the start of the game, which was a month ago.

If this Real Life impediment is going to continue being an argument, I think RachMarie should ask for a replacement in case it really is. Using this as an argument isn't fair: we can't check it, and if it's the truth it hurts the game. Apologies if this sounds harsh, but this isn't the place for such kind of arguments. I'm playing within the confines of this topic, and maybe this forum, I don't want to have to take other matters into account.

Micro 181 is how long ago? We are talking about ongoing games(where she have her inpending crisis). If this is the case, don't you think you should leave her to day 2, since she have sorted out her crisis, to have a better read of her instead of lynching her,(which is a random lynch to me) now. And She said her computer died in the very first post? So i assume she has this crisis over the entire day 1. If you want to say she is scum for lurking, give me at least some meta where she lurks when scum. That will be mroe convincing?

[enomis]

Mini 1444: Mafia in the Park (Game Over) for example, shows that she don't lurk when scum so blatantly. You can search her other scum games too.

[enomis]

Therefore her lurking is a null point, not town nor scum but because she is sick/ don't have computer.

[enomis]

So? That shows her meta as town. You are suppose to find her meta as scum.

I read. I could see the other possible high likely situation for her case on Syr. Anything else?

Homer: What is you scumslip on Syr.

[enomis]

On page 28, you had Syr as scum and yet you vote Rach? I understand you wanting to get something out of Rach. But you are still having your vote on her although she's on L1? There are 5 more pages though to this page.

[enomis]

So? That shows her meta as town. You are suppose to find her meta as scum.

It's right here, under your nose. The fact that her play here is different from her play as town should already tell you something. And yes, 181 was played under the same difficult circumstances for RachMarie, I heared them all.

Let me ask you this: do you think the case on RachMarie I (we) am (are) presenting is scummy?

You are like ignoring her meta as scum? She plays actively as scum. She plays actively as town. WTF? You are like using evidence to fit your reads.

Lynching Lurkers is anti-town. Scummy would have to depend on case by case basis. Why are you trying to use WE? Are you trying to tell me since there is 3 or 4 of you making the same case, and there are only 2 scums, therefore your case can't be scummy because 3or 4 person is making it?

[enomis]

well i see the rach thing in 2 ways
rach is at L1 and inactive:
A if she is town she doesn't care and isn't going to add to the game
B her illness is bad enough that even pointing a fos in her direction gives me a guilt trip
and if rach is back to null.. syrana/mothrax?

not to sound cold but that kind of outside information can lead to an unlynchable scum

Have a better read on day 2. She would have no excuses left.

[enomis]

@homer: I don't get it.

Syr saying Grim is very good at appearing reasonable as either alignment. Which means he is saying reasonable argument may not be used as a point to earn him town cred. How is this a scumslip? Mind Explaining?

[enomis]

I mean day 3. What i meant was a day after today. It was obv. Lynching her now(a random lynch), would lead us to LYLO if she is town. This isn't a good situation.

[enomis]

See in the end state, Grim, your argument is Rach is not responding to your case because she is LURKING. So your case is she is LURKING. You are giving Towncred to Syr for not Lurking.

[enomis]

You are like ignoring her meta as scum? She plays actively as scum. She plays actively as town. WTF? You are like using evidence to fit your reads.

I generally don't use meta. It's you who decided to bring up other games you are in with her, and I felt I was in a position to counter that argument with an example of my own experience. I have no scum-meta on her, I have town-meta on her and it's not the same as here. If you don't want to bother reading this entire thread, I don't see why you expect me to read through entire games with RachMarie as scum in order to get her scum-meta. Fitting what with what now?

Lynching Lurkers is anti-town. Scummy would have to depend on case by case basis. Why are you trying to use WE? Are you trying to tell me since there is 3 or 4 of you making the same case, and there are only 2 scums, therefore your case can't be scummy because 3or 4 person is making it?

1. This is more than simply lynching a lurker, as has beens tated repeatedly.
2. I use "I" because I do want to take some form of personal responsability in this case against her, but I put "we" in brackets because I did not want to give the impression I'm the only one who's been actively trying to make a case against her. Didn't want to sound like a douche. Any other inferences you make were not intended by me, I simply asked you a question.

Because you don't counter meta arguments of different alignment. Meta does not work that way especially for activity levels. I have proved to you that she plays actively both as scum and town, Thats why you saying she is not playing actively when she HAD play actively as Town is wrong. This is using evidence to fit the reads because you refuse to consider what i said which is when she is scum, she plays actively as well. So does this mean she is town because she plays actively as scum?

1. You simply refuse to give me other arguments other than lynching a lurker which is all i see.
2. Fine.

[enomis]

Rach get yourself here now that you are Fine and well.

And Grim, I read finish from page 26 and i can't see your "OTHER" argument for Rach.

[enomis]

@Mod: Would like a VC + Deadline.
Could our deadline be extended if you replace Mothrax?

[enomis]

Haiz. Grim, why did you stop posting in this thread and post in other threads ytd. I was waiting for your OTHER argument for rach. Or do you don't have one that you can't state one.

[enomis]

Hey people, post please. I think we are very close to the deadline.

[enomis]

@Mod: David should be enomis instead in the vote count.

I don't know what you're talking about...

[enomis]

Enormis/RachMarie scumteam. Cool.

What do you think about my Rach argument?

Do you have anything against her besides lurking?

[enomis]

I told you lurking is null.

And i seem to recall you being able to put a case whenever you lynch people. Could you do that for me for your case against Rach? Because all you have against her is lurking --> which is null because she is sick.

Its legit.

Rach, are you fine now?

[enomis]

Lurking can be a scumtell in some circumstances,

But in this case, it is null because she is sick. She lurked through 3 of my ongoing games with her(she got lynched in one just yesterday.)

Syr, are you really insisting this case of lurking = scumtell on her or are you doing this to spite me.

[enomis]

I guess you don't have a case other than lurker on Rach then. Cool.

I like my avatar change.

[enomis]

Ermm... Rach, that argument is weak. Do you have something else?

[enomis]

What? Grim and Syr are capable players. --> They are scum? Then if you play a game with 8 capable players, they are all scum?

cool argument.

[enomis]

What vote flip.

[enomis]

Oh syr. I am kinda figuring out what it means too. I guess he wants to reaction test me or something.

[enomis]

no I mean capable as in fooling peeps they are town when they are scumz, not an easy thing for everyone to do.

Syr flipped his vote off of me and onto you for what? a change in avi?

So if you have 8 players who is very good in fooling peeps they are town when they are scumz, the 8 players would be in you scumpile? It makes no sense?

Give me better arguments of why Syr/Grim are scum.

[enomis]

@Syr: There is no brief content in my 3 ongoing games with her. It's either bah post by her or nothing else.

The readlist is weak yes. But i can account this to her having a ton load of games/being sick and thus could not think about the game. Well, This is at least a valid point of why she is scummy but i don't see this point alone convincing you that she is scum.

She can't be pro-town when she doesn't post. How do you define pro-town?

[enomis]

@Syr: What is metastalking?
You say everyone else is town to you. hmm. Care to explain/re-explain why grim is town to me? I seem to recall you having some scumslip on him and turning that later to the town read or smth.
Do rach usually avoid questions syr? Or like don't give reads for her explanation? Cuz all the games i have with her is only her lurking so don't really have her "active meta".

LOL rach. You gotta be better than that.

[enomis]

Ermm... The posts she post in the game with me are "Have been sick will catch up soon" or " Sharing computer. Will be getting computer soon". And one she didnt even post anything. <-- This counted as minimal content to you?

I agree with the lack of genuine contributions but you are not considering the case of her being sick. Maybe do a more detailed metastalking. And you will find out she isn't doing shit and has no genuine contributions other games too.

About the grim slip thingy, i will go read up abit on that.

[enomis]

Wait i read up that post, i still don't see any scumslip thingy. If it's the one Homer is talking about, it isn't a scumslip at all. I find it weird that you think a scumslip on you is an actual case when you can't make a scumslip if you are town. What? You are also saying "you twisting words to make other people scummy" is a decent case? So you admit to doing this? WTF were you doing.

[enomis]

I'll only be able to post in depth tomorrow. Syryana: I think your vote was better in the place it was.

Enomis: Do you prefer a no lynch over a RachMarie lynch? Keep in mind there's not many active players around. What is your proposed course of action for this daystage?

@mod

: I would also call for a deadline extension. With mothrax we have a flaker here, already since he replaced in, and it's hurting the game at this stage.

RachMarie is scum. Enomis I'm not so sure yet, I can imagine that replacing in like that disables him from getting the general feel RachMarie has been giving us throughout these past weeks.

I prefer a RachMarie Lynch over no lynch. My proposed course of action is to find scum over the last few days. If we cannot find one, Then i would agree to you random lynch RachMarie.

So now you think Rachmarie is scum because of gut. The one point i can't argue. Great! BTW, do you at least have a case against her for me. =.=....

What do you think about the points i just mentioned about syr.

[enomis]

@Rach: You agree that your arguments are superficial. Yet you are using it and not planning to reread/ iso to get more info/revise about the game after such a long break. What are you doing?
What do you think about my points on Syr?

[enomis]

Ok. Get soon

. After you feel better, maybe you could present a better case against Syr or who you think is scummiest after

RE-ISOING

? Because your current case is not cutting it.

[enomis]

I mean get well soon.

[enomis]

I don't understand why other people think it's a scumslip. Mind enlightening me?

Basically, you are saying the case on you which is "Twisting words to make other people scummy" is a decent case.As shown here:

There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy"

Therefore, if you think it's a decent case, you must be twisting words in some instances? Or are you going to give me "I understand why other people think i am twisting words, but i am not" Argument. It does not work this way bro. Because if you are not twisting words and other people think you are, IT IS NOT A DECENT CASE AT ALL.

[enomis]

@homer: Yep, i only skimmed from page 26 onwards.
So what you are basically saying is that you are lynching her for lurking, which is a fking random lynch. WE ARE HERE TO LYNCH SCUM, NOT LURKER. Sure if you can't find scum, and it is near to the deadline, i can agree to lynching an anti-town player. But this isn't the case. 3 or 4 person just shut their mind and tunnel on Rach for lurking which she had a valid reason for. I am not saying she can't be scum. There are one point like superficial argument which i agree with. But, this sort of random lynch will just lose us the game. Period.

@core: Where to you get i have a closed and targetted mind on syr? I am waiting for syr to answer my questions. yes or no? I am waiting for him to give me an answer and then i am gonna judge whether he is town. Do you see me screaming syr is scum!syr is scum?

You see scum motivation. You can't see town motivation?
1. Stop a random lurker lynch.
2. Try to figure out if syr is scum.

Judging from your argument, it seems that you have syr peg as town. Why is that?

No. If i flip town, syr may not be scum. Because i haven't decided whether he is scum. And his vote on me is trolling/reaction-testing.

So now you think Rach is town since i am defending her to get town cred. Am i right? Why did you think her scum in the first place that it could be so easily reversible by me defending Rach.
Now tell me why syr is town.

[enomis]

@Grim: You just ignored my post about syr.

[enomis]

@grim:
The thing about syr scumslip.

@Core: No this can't be it. Look. You say i am scum for jumping on to the second bandwagon.(this only applies if syr is town.) and i am scum for defending the heck out of Rach to earn townpoints.(again this only applies if Rach is town). So you are saying i am scum for defending town and voting town. If Rach or Syr is scum, how would your logic work?

[enomis]

Who is the one of the other town in your scum triangle. How can one be town yet be in your scum triangle?

[enomis]

And yet you say you didn't say rach or syr are town. Contradicting yourself?

[enomis]

@Grim:

Its this:

Wait i read up that post, i still don't see any scumslip thingy. If it's the one Homer is talking about, it isn't a scumslip at all. I find it weird that you think a scumslip on you is an actual case when you can't make a scumslip if you are town. What? You are also saying "you twisting words to make other people scummy" is a decent case? So you admit to doing this? WTF were you doing.

I don't understand why other people think it's a scumslip. Mind enlightening me?

Basically, you are saying the case on you which is "Twisting words to make other people scummy" is a decent case.As shown here:

There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy"

Therefore, if you think it's a decent case, you must be twisting words in some instances? Or are you going to give me "I understand why other people think i am twisting words, but i am not" Argument. It does not work this way bro. Because if you are not twisting words and other people think you are, IT IS NOT A DECENT CASE AT ALL.

RachMarie's response to my question? If you meant she think my arguments about syr are good, that ping my scumdar abit. It feels like she is saying good just to agree with me. But i am not to the point where i am comfortable lynching her.Because I find that wagons which consist of weak reasons are usually scum motivated. Like i will not be surprised at all if there are 2 scums. Of course i am not saying that there will be 2 scum and there may be even that there may not be any scum on the wagon at all. It is just this wagon makes me paranoid.

Also, i can see part of her reasoning why she call me town. Imagine you are town and you are sick which makes you unable to post in the game like you usually do. Then suddenly, majority of the players attack you for lurking. Then one guy comes with a reasonable argument that lurking=/= scum. You would feel that he is town because he could easily blend into the majority.

So my stance on her is, i am leaning scum on her but not comfortable lynching her now. Part of the reason is the wagon with weak reasoning on her and the other is i need to get more feel of the other players. I also want mothrax to be replaced and interact with her replacement.

@Homer:

Because if i read 30 pages that has no me(enomis) in it, usually i will read it with my brain shut down. That means even though i read it, it accomplish nothing because i will not have reads and just read for the sake of reading. I find it better to interact. And then after that, if i find one guy that is scummy enough for me to want to lynch him, i would then iso him to double confirm my read.

The contradiction is that Core say he didn't say Syr is town and yet he is implying that Syr is town.
Look:

I didnt say rach or syr are town, you three are currently my triangle of scum but you are the scumiest and one of the other is town

He is saying 'I am the scummiest but "one of the other" which i assumes to be syr is town.'

He is blatanly saying Syr is town yet put him in the scum triangle.

@Grim:

Nope i am not saying limit to two scum spec. You are not getting me.
The argument is as above. What i said to homer.

Quite alot have been helpful to me actually.
But i will postpone my reads abit as i am in the midst of strengthening it and spewing out my reads now will affect me questioning them.

@Core: Look here:

2jump to the closest band wagon (syrana)and push it to the lync

Lets ignore the fact that i did not jump to syrana wagon and push it to the lynch.

If part of your argument saying i am scum is that i jumped to syr and push his wagon to the lynch, This argument is

ONLY VALID

if Syr is town. Therefore you are implying he is town.

1 stop the lynch of a lurker at L1 get a little town cred and a buddy

Again this is the same thing. The argument is

ONLY VALID

if rach is town. Therefore you are implying she is town.

So the whole BASIS of your argument saying i am scum relies on the two of them being scum. Because if they are scum, your argument don't make sense.

Therefore, if you do not have them as town, you must have something of why i am scum to be able to say they are town as my interaction with them does not seem scum x scum? Which i am not seeing it.

[enomis]

Did I just get ignored? Like totally?

[enomis]

That being said, Eno's posting has been strictly pro-town, and has solidified his slot as town for me.

p-edit: Which reads are you confused about, specifically?

I don't know, majiffy... I feel abit iffy about your reads. Don't you suspect i am scum but try to do pro-town things to earn town cred? Thats what some think of me. And your reads are who i am attacking now. Is it your style to townread me and scumread who i am attacking? Because this is the second consecutive game that you did that.

Anyway

@Grim:

YOU TOTALLY IGNORED ME AFTER I WENT AND POST OUT WHAT WERE MY POINTS ABOUT SYR.

@Homer:

What do you think about what i said about core?

Gut-wise, i don't like your case on syr.

[enomis]

^^The case meaning Majiffy case. Last sentence was intended for majiffy.

[enomis]

but you are the scumiest and one of the other is town so

@Homer:

Look how he phrase the sentence. He did not say "You are the scummiest and

therefore

one of the other is town." Instead he say "You are the scumiest

and

one of the other is town." I know i am arguing abit of semantics here but he is obviously saying Syr or Rach is town without me being scum. This was what i thought.

Anyway, even if you don't agree with what i am seeing. What do you think about his case being valid only if Rach and Syr are town?

[enomis]

I didnt say rach or syr are town, you three are currently my triangle of scum but you are the scumiest and one of the other is town so
your twisting certain speculations i had and avoiding the logic that seems kinda scummy

Really?

That's

your case? It's very very weak.

Why is it valid only if Rach and Syr is town?

Tell me how is it valid if Rach and Syr are scum which is his points.

And please don't use something like i am bussing Syr or some shit because that isn't his case. His case is he thinks i am jumping onto the second bandwagon to mislynch a townie and defend Rach to get towncred which earns me a buddy for "whiteknighting her."

[enomis]

@Grim: Yet Syr think other people saying that Syr is twisting words is a decent argument?

[enomis]

enomis, either I don't understand you or you don't understand me (or you are scum and you choose not to understand me).

[Not (Rach and Syr are town)] is not equal to [(Rach and Syr are scum)].

What core is saying is this:
If you flip town, then Syr is probably scum. The second scum is somebody else.
if you flip scum, then Rach is probably the second scum.

Now explain to me what's wrong with that argument.

Then how is this a case on why i am scummy? He used this as a case and voted me. So obv, he must have either of them have town to be able to use this case to say why i am scummy.

And no, if i flip scum, he said Rach is town because i defend her to "whiteknight" and thus earn a buddy.

@Grim:

Let me phrase this another way. Why did you think Syr could think other people think he is twisting words is a decent case. Can you see his logic for saying that? Or is it just agreeing to a case to make the case weaker.(Yes, agreeing to case on you can be a scum tactic to make the case weaker).

[enomis]

Is the question mark addressed to me?

[enomis]

Dunnoe? Because i get the feeling Syr is trolling me and pretending not to get my argument because he is good enough to get me.

[enomis]

???. What core's case on me is 1

[enomis]

So his argument is i am scum because i stop the lynch of a lurker at L1 to get a little town cred? And the rest of his case is fluff? Do you read it this way?

And if you do, do you think it's strong?

[enomis]

Oh, and maybe the argument i am partnering Rach no matter if she is scum or town. If she is scum, i am partnering her because she's my scum buddy. If she is town, i am partnering her to get a buddy.

[enomis]

I never said I think it's strong. That's why I'm not moving my vote from Rach to you yet. But I do think you are way over-defending her and doing it in a strange way.

I would not be defending her if you all have valid points and can convince me she is scum.

So, Why is she scum? You seem to vote her instead of syr which is because you wanted to pressure her or smth?

[enomis]

I don't like the situation we are in now:

[*] - Core didn't say a word in three days.
[*] - mothrax didn't say anything meaningful since this day began.
[*] - David is not answering my question.
[*] - Rach has a case against Syr solely for his meta.

It is quite impossible to draw conclusions as most players (four out of seven) say so little.

Grim, I agree with you, and since my vote on a player who might get replaced is not effective, I think I'll go for it.

UNVOTE: Core_H86
VOTE: RachMarie

Rach is at L-1. Please don't hammer without a good reason.

See above. Don't say i never read the game. I had skimmed abit here and here

[enomis]

I wanted to pressure her, yes. However she didn't respond to that at all. For days and days. Which made her look even more suspicious in my eyes. Grim showed you examples of her behavior on other games at the same time she was silent here.

Don't say i never read the game. I had skimmed abit here and here

It's not enough.

So you never thought about the examples i gave?

[enomis]

Actually nvm, i realise we are going more and more into ongoing game discussion.

Just tell me if you did think about them.

[enomis]

Yes, I did, and I didn't find them convincing. Grim's examples was far more convincing.

I have no idea why you find Grim's examples far more convincing than mine. Because both are actual facts that happened and i don't get why grim's examples were far more convincing?

Calm down and decide, are you using evidence to fit your reads?

[enomis]

1. Grimgroove - leaning town
3. homertve - leaning scum
6. Core_H86 - Not sure
7. Syryana (SE) - leaning scum
8. majiffy (SE) - Not sure
9. RachMarie (IC) - leaning scum

[enomis]

So you have three people leaning scum. Of those three, who do you find the most scummiest? and why?

You. Because i find it weird that you decide to use one side of evidence (Grim) but not the other(mine). Basically, you just say Rach is suspicious for posting in other threads but not in here. When i gave you the example of why she didn't only not post in here, you find the other one more convincing. I have a feeling you are just sheeping the majority.

[enomis]

Fk. It is so hard to say why you were wrong because i can't specifically discuss about the points in ongoing game.

[enomis]

Lets phrase this the other way, since you believe she avoids the thread so much, do you think it is scummy. What scum motivation do you think she has to lurk when other people put her on L1?

[enomis]

That's for her to explain. She didn't even try.

You think she's scummy for lurking. You must have a reason?

[enomis]

1. Grimgroove - leaning town
3. homertve - leaning scum

Hmm.
What's the difference between me and homertve? We're both pushing the same wagon for the same reasons.

Your point being?

@homer: So you are saying you cannot find scum motivation but you would not do that as a person?

I need to think twice to get your joke.

[enomis]

had you said grim was leaning scum and not rach i could have believed you were town giving honest reads but these reads are ment to be leading. You have been pleading rachtown all game, single-mindedly attached to syr and homer lands up there because you didn't like the negative attention he put on you

Are you reading the game?

@Grim:
You think i put you town for driving the same wagon as homer?

@Rach:
What part of me makes you think i am a newb town?

[enomis]

Seems like reaction testing is over. I will out what i am thinking about each player now.

Grimgroove: I would say part of why I am townreading Grim is gut. The other is that he seems to be really trying to scumhunt, bringing the game out of it's stale state and he seems to believe in his argument. I find that people who seems to believe in their argument are usually town.

But i am not liking some of his posts. They seems abit hesistant like wanting to avoid having a scumread of himself.
This is one of the latest example:
"You should vote RachMarie Core_H86. I realise it sounds very arrogant to be telling you what to do,"
The part where he say it sounds arrogant to make him saying core should vote rachmarie seems like trying to put his persuasion a little weaker so that if Rach flips town, other people won't say he is scum for strongly pushing the wagon and strongly persuading other people to vote rach. However, if Rach flips scum, i think there's no way he is scum.

Therefore, my read of him is only null-town.

Syryana:I am like totally not liking this slot. His reversal on the "scumslip" thingy looks very forced. And he says other people for having scumslips and him"twisting words" is a decent case. Furthermore, he leaves his vote on me starting as a reaction and trolling vote? I can understand that. Then after he say i failed his reaction test badly, he didn't even bother to push my wagon, go back to rach wagon or question me further, he just leaves his vote on me like leaving there for fun. This is very scummy. He seems to be content just sitting back and just add posts here and there.

Read:Scummy.

RachMarie:I probably said all i wanted on this slot. I came in and see people lynching her for lurking when she's sick. Then she just post a few things like" I think your points are good eno" without any followup or explanation which feels like she is just agreeing with me for the saek of agreeing. But i could totally see her slot as town also. She's been away from this game for quite a long time. Therefore her reads are haywired, don't really have a feel on this game anymore. Therefore when she sees a townread, she just sheeps his reasoning.

Although i said that she is leaning scum, i will be like totally no surprised at all if she flips town. This is honestly the first time I have no expectant/prediction of what a person will flip. If you ask me to pick one, i think will just pick scum.

Core_H86: This guy i don't know what to say about him. When i vote him for his weak logic and case which is contradicting, he just freaked out and slowly labeled me as scum for non-existant reasons. Like this:

had you said grim was leaning scum and not rach i could have believed you were town giving honest reads but these reads are ment to be leading. You have been pleading rachtown all game, single-mindedly attached to syr and homer lands up there because you didn't like the negative attention he put on you

Point 1: I have been pleading rachtown all game which is not true at all because i am defending her all game just saying the wagon's case on her is bad. I have even said i had her leaning scum.
Point 2: Single-mindedly attached to syr. Did i do that? Although i used syr as a focal point to discuss, i tried to provoke other people's thoughts about them and judge their reaction. I also attacked other people.
Point 3: vote homer because he put negative attention. This is even more ridiculous. Homer is not the only one who put negative attention on me. IIRC, few people have also said i am scum and put negative attention on him. In fact, i don't even see the way homer is speaking which puts negative attention on me when he doesn't know what to think of me.

I am thinking this is paranoid scum?
But i think i can see his town-mindedness: Like he just take two person, syr and me, then use gut to determine which is more scummy. Once he determine me more scummy, he used his case of if syr is town i am scum case to push me although he refuses to admit that he thinks syr is scum because he is indirectly implying that syr is town.
Also, the post where i say he is scummy for labeling me as scum, i could see him as"omg, what is this guy's read list,his read list is shit, he put grim leaning town when he was attacking him"This guy must be scum that sort of idea. And"He keeps talking about syr's scummy point and ask other people's opinion about them, he keep persuading people to go on syr's wagon who is "the second most possible wagon". and directing it away from the leading wagon"rach". Therefore he must be scum.

As wrong and as weak as his argument can be, i can see town's pov from his view.

Therefore, i think he is null-town.

homertve: This is a more complicated one. He said he didn't find my examples convincing which he must have looked into them. But the problem is if he looked into them and since he think rach posted game-related post(from after i have him as scummy) both games, he must have noticed something very obv.

@Homer: Did you or did you not see Rach's flip in one of the game where she is lynched. That is all i will say. I can't really discuss about ongoing game so let's just call this point gut.

The fact that his vote is on Rach and he doesn't seem to believe that Rach is scum. I know he is saying rach is scum and suspicious blah blah blah, but looking at the way he post about Rach, i can't say he believe in his case like grim do. However some recent post of him seems townie.
Like this:

Do you get what I mean?

Seems like he caught onto something that he thinks is scummy about me but can't really explain it well. Therefore, this is a "little bit" of frustrated tone that hopes everyone gets what he is talking about and feel that same. This is townie to me.

Overall, i will believe my feel of his townie posts on this now. Since, we can't really discuss about ongoing games and he may have some pov that i can't see because we can't discuss about the game.

Majiffy: I am quite tired now. Typing all this in one sitting. I will just say that he is still quite null for me now. I can't quite get a feel of him.

I don't want to split the votes even further and i don't think the syr wagon will get enough support today, i will just
VOTE: RachMarie

This is

L1

Rach you gotta claim.

[enomis]

Not to be mean or rude but your triangle Is really terrible. The fact that i flip town does not mean rach is town. And i flip scum = rach scum? Not to mention you are saying I am scum because no matter what rach flips I am still scum. Lol. I can at leaat understand the town v scum pov btw me and syr. But do think a town v town btw me and syr is possible?

[enomis]

^^^ I would say post 1001 should be a hammer.

[enomis]

Should we no lynch today? I am thinking it will give cop another night to inv if maf nk which is very unlikely, jail keeper who jail keeped the scum (if there is a jail keeper, should they out who they jail keep?) To confirm they jail keep the right person, just a townie where there is no harm no lynching and also a less likely possibility.

[enomis]

How the hell do we have 2 mislynches? After one more lynch, we are down to 4 which is basically lylo..

[enomis]

Scum nking is a very bad move becuz if we have a cop, they are fucked.

[enomis]

? What do you mean my posting style change? I dunnoe. Maybe I am a chameleon I just post what I think. And I find thatvmy posting styles usually adapt itself to the game. So maybe it changed but I dunnoe.

What do you think about no lynching?

@grim: I did admit there may be jk. Thats why I was thinking we no lynch and let the jk double confirm if his target is scum. And scum cant cont to nk becuz if there is cop, hr is fked. And we lose nothing by no lynching

[enomis]

Yep. I am posting from phone. Maybe the jail keeper do wifom and jailkeep someone else instead? We dont know what he will do if there is such a role.

[enomis]

Yep the more I think, the more I like my plan.
VOTE: no lynch

[enomis]

Actually, i rethought about my plan and thought of something even better.

This plan is assuming there is a jailkeeper. Even if there is not jailkeeper, this plan does not give any information to scum. If there is one, this plan helps us alot and actually make it more difficult for scum to counterclaim jailkeeper.

It is to ask everyone to out who they would JailKeep if they were the jailkeeper.

Let me give examples to illustrate why this is good:

Lets take for example i am jail keeper and majiffy is scum in all scenarios.

Scenario 1: I jailkeeped Majiffy Night 2.
I out that i would jailkeep majiffy if i were jailkeeper.
We find someone to lynch during the day. For example grimgroove.
Night 3 i jailkeep majiffy again. We reach 5 man MYLO. Where we have one more lynch. Jail keeper out himself as jailkeeper now. Because scum would definitely kill this night to let us not have a MYLO.

Conclusion: we win.

Scenario 2: I jailkeeped Grimgroove Night 2.
I out the i would jailkeep grimgroove if i were jailkeeper.
Majiffy gain no information from this as everyone just out who they would jailkeep if they were the jailkeeper(instead of some obv breadcrumb or straight outing themselves as JK).
We lynch Core day 3.
Majiffy kill me night 3.(unfortunate)
We know Grimgroove is clear. Well this is the worst scenario.

Scenario 3: Majiffy kill Grimgroove night 3.
Well, theres nothing we can do. Also one of the worse scenario.

Scenario 4: Majiffy kill Homer night 3
Jail keeper out themselves. this gives us two innocents. Jail keeper say who he is going to JK the night. If maf kill go thru, we found the scum. If maf kill never go thru, he switch target publicly.
The only problem i see with this is if the mafia keep NKING which puts us to a stalemate?

Mod: What happens in this situation?

Scenario 5: Scum actually decides to NK which is very unlikely since this gives us two mislynches. For example Majiffy NK.
I out I jailkeeped Grim
We lynch core day 3.
Majiffy NK night 3.
I out myself as jailkeeper. We lynch Grim.
Grim is town.
We have 4 person left, jailkeeper still have one more shot as jailkeeping. This will essentially gives us one clear at 3P LYLO

And we could have all this information without giving information to the scum. What do you think of this?

Please do not execute this plan first as i scared there may be some points i did not think of.

In the case of a cop/townie, i really don't see how the mafia could NK. The maf don't know if there is a cop. Doing this literally force himself into a losing situation.
I am thinking, if there is a cop, should the cop add who they investigated as who would they jailkeep if they were jailkeeper? This would let us know at least who is innocent if the cop died without outing the cop.

In the case of a townie, we just waste our efforts but it gives scum no edge.

[enomis]

This plan is assuming there is a jailkeeper. Even if there is not jailkeeper, this plan does not give any information to scum. If there is one, this plan helps us alot and actually make it more difficult for scum to counterclaim jailkeeper.

+ Prevent the obv breadcrumb which the JK may do and give him a way to breadcrumb his JK target without giving information to the scum.

Thats why Scenario 2 and 3 is the worst case scenario. It does not help us but it does not hurt us.

Scenario 4:
Lets see:
I say i jailkeep Grimgroove Majiffy say he jailkeep Homer maybe.
We lynch core.
Homer is nked.
I out that i am jail keeper and i jailkeep grim. If majiffy decide to out that he is jailkeeper,

We basically have Two CLEAR instead of a 4P LYLO since we decide btw majiffy and me.

P-edit: Ok.

[enomis]

Actually, i see a flaw in my plan. If we have all townies, we need to be suspicious of the Jailkeeper who outed himself even though there may be no counter claim of either Cop or JK. But i still don't see any cons.

Any strong Objection to the plan?

[enomis]

You lost me enomis.

I can't make sense out of any of these scenarios I'm afraid to say, I don't think this has clarified your plan but rather made it more complicated.

What do you think about Syryana's suggestion? That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Regardless of what happens, I think it would be more productive to continue an old-fashioned scumhunt based on RachMarie's flip and hert interactions, as well as analysis of the voting process during the previous phase. If in the end we wouldn't reach consensus, we still have that plan as a fallback, but I don't see the merit in proceeding to a no-lynch immediately. Feels like a waste of a daystage.

If we want to no-lynch, we no-lynch immediately. Either that or we lynch today. There is no halfway.

[enomis]

@Grim:
Simple version: We out who we would jailkeep if we were the jailkeeper. Think about the benefits and cons yourself.
Do you object to this plan?

@Homer:
Do you object?

[enomis]

And you know assuming all townie and one scum:

We actually have better chance of finding scum if we nl today.
That is because:

If we NL, the chance of finding scum tomorrow when one died is 1/5, and on lylo is 1/3.
But if we find scum today: it is 1/6 and on lylo is 1/3.

But bah, we are probably not a all townie town now.

[enomis]

Like scum would NK again to give us two free mislynches.

Ok, One approval.

[enomis]

Tell me why you think i am scum again.

P-edit: My situation was assuming all townies. Did you even read.

[enomis]

1. The way you don't want to read the first 30 pages of the game.
2. The way you defended rach and then bassed her.
3. The way you are trying to come up with some crazy plans so we can think about that and not see the very truth that is right there under our noses.

SCUM!

1) is enomis being enomis
2) I defended her because of some random lurker lynched and i did not even bussed her. I put my vote on her because i didn't want a no lynch and i see no other lynch possible.
3) The plan is useful.

[enomis]

Doc died

[enomis]

Still thinking.
I am thinking Syr.

But i am kind of entertaining the idea that there is no kill because Core site-flaked.
Grim is town.
Homer is leaning town.

I don't know what majiffy is doing though. I am still kinda null on him.
Anyway, the not hammer point on him is not a point. Majiffy is not so dumb to not hammer Rach when there is a high likelyhood that someone will do it, so he might as well do it. It is a null point. I am thinking that he did not check the thread.

I like how syr post one comment and lurked while actively posting on other threads. Looks like scum waiting for a more popular wagon and use his "reread" to push the popular wagon.

[enomis]

Really? I see the likelihood of hammering quite high. With core posting intent alr. If majiffy is scum, and he sees a town posting intent to hammer, there is no way to think that the day is gonna end in no lynch. Especially The intent to hammer being on the last day itself.

I am waiting for core to post. Though i have the feeling he will flake.

[enomis]

not trying toflake just catching up still leaning majiffy/enomis syrana is confirmed town to me, and sorry i have 5 kids and work would have dropped the hammer i was just trying to give rach a chance to claim, just glad to see the lynch go through

What do you mean still leaning majiffy/enomis. When did u express that u think majiffy is scum. Iirc, u didnt. Well on mobile now so need to doubke check.

And why is syr conf town? If you are doing a soft-claim, you are doing a really bad job at it.

[enomis]

I will get to this on friday. Spent too much of my energy on the other thread. I will only have mobile access to this thread tmr so expect from me short posts tmr.

[enomis]

Oh. We won. Haha. I wanted to be that hammer. Bah. I had my sight on core/syr.

[enomis]

^^imb4 core is trolling and you just breached the rules.

[enomis]

Mod mind outing the rolrs of everyone?