Mini 404: Diablo Mafia (Game Over)

[DragonsofSummer]

GoGo random.org!

It tells me to

Vote: Pata

.

[DragonsofSummer]

Let's do this Pooky The Magical Bear™ style!

ScotScum12 and Cogito Ergo Scum are obviously buddies. So is DoScum. And KaleidoScum. And Scum the Dragons. And The Central Scum didn't even confirm. Don't even get me started on TheScumMachine. Remusscum didn't even bother to post, lurking perhaps? Neither did Fruscum. Chaotic_Scum is advocating his own lynch. Pata is the only other town here (besides me).

I wasn't even mentioned... so obviously I must be town as well... or I'm just not important enough for him to care.

[DragonsofSummer]

DoS: I did mention you. You're DoScum.

Oh! Ha I completely missed that. Wow.

[DragonsofSummer]

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

[DragonsofSummer]

ASWEIOJFewajifonwoufe

Why?

Why?

Why?

No.

Stop bandwagoning C_D.

Vote: DragonsofSummer

post 105 sets me off. I don't think it's sincere.

What about it makes you think it isn't sincere? I do mean everything I said in that statement, but I'm curious what makes you think I didn't.

[DragonsofSummer]

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

it seems like there's many things that could be discussed, yet you pick this one thing and go after it like pitbull. Then you fos, to make it look not so serious. I am quite suspicious of certian FOSs. Scum can be like, "look, I was suspicious of this person back on d1."

Although the major thing is that you failed to unvote your random vote to FOS someone. Why would you find your random vote more useful than a vote on someone who doesn't seem very town oriented.

Oh! I get it! Are you guys scumbuddies?

I found scum for you people. Please get off your "diablo is diablo because his name is diablo" wagon.

I only put an FoS on him at that point because I was wanting TheJiveMachine to respond with his reasons for what he said, but he has not and now that you bring it up again. I will go ahead and

Unvote, Vote:TheJiveMachine

you may be right that I was stupid to just leave my vote on my random vote, but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time of the post. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. I do understand your vote on me, and can accept that what I did looks scummy, but it was not intended that way.

[DragonsofSummer]

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

[DragonsofSummer]

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

If he had proved it, I would have conceded that he was right. But from my point of view, he didn't come close. I wasn't saying it wouldn't have mattered if he did prove it, I was saying it was incredibly arrogant of him to say he proved a point when he was apparently the only person who thought so.

Alright, it was just that since you worded it [quote="TheJiveMachine"Proven by who? You?[/quote] It seemed like you didn't care whether he had actually proven the point or not. (Which you are right he didn't).

[DragonsofSummer]

EBWOP:

Proven by who? You?

[DragonsofSummer]

Hey everybody I just wanted to let you know that I will have very little time this weekend because I will be attending a D&D convention. So I hope to be on about once a day if I can manage it..

[DragonsofSummer]

Hey welcome to the game Thestatusquo... if you wouldn't mind could you tell me why you are so sure I am scum. Then I can tell you why you are wrong much better than just telling you you are wrong.

[DragonsofSummer]

DoS you come in second place as scummy , to me, especially your "I don't care if he has proven his point, if nobody else believes it, it hasn't been proven"... It took a reread or two to understand where you are coming from, and that seems... weird. It's like saying the earth is flat, and even if someone says it's round, you don't care unless someone else agrees...

First can you quote the posts you are talking about in the future to make things easier for everyone to understand.

On to your point. I know you are talking about the C_D arguement we had early on. Here are all of my statements about it:

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

Then it comes back on me because all I did was FoS and leave it alone, which I really just forgot until it was brought up again:

D) Proven by who? You?

This statement really bothers me. It almost seems to me like even if C_D has proven his point, which I like his evidence more than yours right now, you won't care specifically because it is him.

FoS:TheJiveMachine

Doesn't seem very town oriented to me.

it seems like there's many things that could be discussed, yet you pick this one thing and go after it like pitbull. Then you fos, to make it look not so serious. I am quite suspicious of certian FOSs. Scum can be like, "look, I was suspicious of this person back on d1."

Although the major thing is that you failed to unvote your random vote to FOS someone. Why would you find your random vote more useful than a vote on someone who doesn't seem very town oriented.

Oh! I get it! Are you guys scumbuddies?

I found scum for you people. Please get off your "diablo is diablo because his name is diablo" wagon.

I only put an FoS on him at that point because I was wanting TheJiveMachine to respond with his reasons for what he said, but he has not and now that you bring it up again. I will go ahead and

Unvote, Vote:TheJiveMachine

you may be right that I was stupid to just leave my vote on my random vote, but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time of the post. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. I do understand your vote on me, and can accept that what I did looks scummy, but it was not intended that way.

Wasn't intended to look scummy? Would have never guessed :p

Anyways, I didn't feel the need to respond since livin had basically said what I was thinking: I don't think C_D proved his point, and

saying he did when I hadn't seen anyone agree with him and I certainly didn't seemed absurd.

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

So... where in all of that do I ever say I don't care if he has proven his point? I acknowledge that he hasn't, and I was never the one attacking C_D there. But there are some other people that wrote posts similar to what you are saying:

I have to agree with DoS, C_D is claiming he proved his point when it doesn't seem like anyone agrees with him.

If he had proved it, I would have conceded that he was right. But from my point of view, he didn't come close. I wasn't saying it wouldn't have mattered if he did prove it, I was saying it was incredibly arrogant of him to say he proved a point when he was apparently the only person who thought so.

[DragonsofSummer]

TSQ: I'm no expert, even though I've debated my fair share as well, but I'm pretty sure that you aren't required to decide whether you completely agree with someone immediately. I thought that C_D had some good points at that point in time, but he hadn't completely convinced me of anything. If you will read what my post said it wasn't even really about who's arguement was better, it was about the fact that TMJ had used such bad phrasing for his post. Later when C_D could not solidify his case with even more evidence is when the other posts came into effect. Also, whether you choose to believe it or not, I was still hoping TMJ would respond to my post. STD brought it up and this made me realize that it was time to solidify a vote on him, and I forgot about TMJ for a little while in between (though I am embarrassed to say so).

I would also appreciate you not taking my posts out of context anymore. A lot happens between the post where I say I like C_D's evidence more, and the post where I say he didn't prove his point. I felt that he was on his way to proving it, but then it just never happened, and consequently agreed with TMJ that C_D's point wasn't proven.

[DragonsofSummer]

2) Those posts were an hour and 40 minutes, and 2 post appart. All there is that is between them is Remus agreeing with you, and TJM short, blippy response. I'm not exactly seeing the "...lot happen[img]" between those two points that you're claiming. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me, but right now it just looks like you're out and out lying to me in order to look better.learn2btruthful.

I think you and I are discussing two different posts here.... I'm talking about between my first one (sunday Feb. 11th) and the one where I say that I agree C_D did not prove his point(wednesday Feb 14th). So I was not lying when I said a lot had happened between the two.

3)Even if that were true, you still haven't dealt with the contradiction which occurs in one post. Although, I suppose a lot happened in between you typing the first sentance of that post, and the last one.

I did deal with that when I talked about how just because I liked his evidence at that point I still wasn't completely sold on his theory. So later (3 days later in fact) when he still had not provided more evidence to solidify his theory I agreed that he had not proven his point.

[DragonsofSummer]

If those are the two posts you're talking about, then you're response makes no sense, because I never compared and contrasted them, nor do those points interact with each other at all. Again, perhaps you should clarify.

Alright. I have answered your question about that post before. I agreed with C_D's evidence more than the other when I made my first post about it (three days before), but wasn't convinced he was right yet. I was waiting for him to show more evidence to solidify his point, but when he didn't I agreed that he had not proven his point. So my last two points don't contradict each other.

But that was never my arguement against TJM in the first place. He seemed hostile towards C_D just because it was C_D to me and that is what my FoS was about and then my vote was about.

[DragonsofSummer]

I feel I explained well... Here I'll break it down again...

I FoS TJM for his post's statement

Proven by who? You?

because it seems like he doesn't care whether or not C_D has proven his point, (which at that point he had not, but he had some good evidence. You are attacking me for something that isn't even why I voted TJM by the way it just ended up being discussion)

C_D provides no more evidence to solidify his claim, and STD calls me out on my FoS (which I explain why it stayed an FoS for so long earlier. But I will again. I wanted a response from TJM and I forgot about it because things in other games came up that I was dealing with in the interim, which is very much my fault.

I vote TJM because he never answered me and STD reminded me.

The arguement of whether or not C_D has proven his point comes up here. Someone calls me on C_D proving his point, and as he did not give any more evidence it remained unproven. (The statemtent in my first post about liking his evidence more is what comes into play here).

Then I make this post:

You will have to notice that I didn't say he had proved his point. My point was that I liked Chaotic Diablo's evidence more at that point, and that the way you said it seemed like you wouldn't care if he had proved it. That looked extremely scummy to me.

Where I state that he hadn't proven his point, but three days earlier when I made my first post about it I thought he had some good points. But state again that my arguement against TJM isn't whether C_D had proven his point, but that even if he had it seemed like TJM didn't care.

Then I state again that I agree C_D's point wasn't proven.

Now you are calling me on a discrepancy between the last two posts that doesn't exist, and you just keep saying that I'm not making any sense...

[DragonsofSummer]

I actually feel that StD is very much town right now. He saw something he thought was scummy and decided to call me on it. But I don't get many scummy vibes off of him. The only thing I think is remotely scummy is his comment on this page about wishing he were a day vig, but that could just as easily be a town thing.

The reason he is mentioned a few times in my post is solely because he is the one who brought my mind back to this game and my vote on TJM.

[DragonsofSummer]

You still have not given good reason for it though.

[DragonsofSummer]

EBWOP: Also where is that response you were supposedly giving to my last breakdown of my actions?

[DragonsofSummer]

TJM I didn't miss it. There was a reason I said to my

last breakdown

. You are putting words in my mouth at this point and that is extremely scummy. I never said anything about not seeing a breakdown.

TSQ you have been posting on the site since yesterday afternoon. I will admit that life comes first, but I would like you to make this a priority while you are on the site. I do want to know what you think is off in my last post so that we can talk about it and maybe start to understand each other.

[DragonsofSummer]

TSQ:
The first part you talk about we will just have to agree to disagree because I know how I saw that statement, and you disagree with my assessment of it in the first place. We will not reach an understanding here no matter how hard either one of us pushes.

Your second point. You keep saying that I am using flawed logic, but I think it is just a problem of miscomunication between us. I will offer up something different this time to try to make it clearer what was going on.

In a hypothetical situation where two people are debating. Would you automatically agree with one of them because they provide a few pieces of good proof? Or would you wait to see how the other rebuts and then look for more good proof from the first person?

The latter is the type of person I am. So when I made my first post I was leaning more towards C_D's side, but by the time you are calling me a lier (on the next page and four days later) I have fallen back into a nuetral position because C_D does not get me to the point of convinced. So I agree that he has not proven his point. (This also adresses the discrepancy you are talking about).

Skruffs: If enough people want me to I will claim, but as of right now since you are the only one to request it, and I do not have the most votes on me (TJM still has one more than me) I do not want to have to do it yet. I am town, and I think the big problem here between me and TSQ is we have a fundementally different opinion of how to play the game.

[DragonsofSummer]

And I'm saying no I am not ignoring that. I am telling you that to me the way I played it makes perfect sense, but you have a fundementally different view on the issue, and as such my explanations have confused you when I give them. Thus I say we should agree to disagree on the issue obviously more people agree with you about it than agree with me, but there is not a lot I can do about that either. I have come to accept that the main reason you think I am scum is also not something I see as a reason for thinking people are scum.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I respectfully disagree with your opinion of my play there because of the way I look at it compared to the way you look at it.

[DragonsofSummer]

Alright. I accept that, and that is better than 100% certain in my book. For now you have made your points, and I have made mine. Let us leave it up to the rest of the town to decide what they think.

[DragonsofSummer]

In general what do people get into trouble as far as "quoting" a role pm? I just want to know so that my my claim will not get me into trouble with the mod.

[DragonsofSummer]

Roleclaim: Geleb Flamefinger, Council Member, Prime Evil Aligned

[DragonsofSummer]

Skruffs: Thx for the explanation I was about to go do one, but I think TSQ will like it more coming from someone else anyway.

TSQ: Basically as part of the council I am a mason from what I can tell.

[DragonsofSummer]

Well right but it doesn't come right out and state that we are masons anywhere. It gives us all the characteristics of a mason group, and so that it what I labeled it as.

[DragonsofSummer]

Yes I can talk to the other council members at night.

[DragonsofSummer]

Oh Izual how misled he was. Good job hunting scum yesterday everybody.

[DragonsofSummer]

Vote: Livingod

Livingod has been trying to throw suspicion on to random people ever since he stopped his 'random' stage and keep it off of himself and for a few posts TJM as well. The main thing I find off in how he has played the game so far is how much he pushed against CES day one even when no one seemed to agree with him. Also he hasn't really put in many opinions other than the ones against CES.

[DragonsofSummer]

Skruffs what you should really be asking yourself is why I am letting TSQ off without much protest after how much he pushed for my lynch yesterday. It is because I would actually bet on the fact that he is not scum. I think that he has done some very good things for the town, and I made some mistakes in my play yesterday. But Livingod is the Lynch for today.

[DragonsofSummer]

I actually believe Skruff's first claim as well. I do like the joke claim though. I don't know that quick lynching him is the play though.

Just a quick question. Since we had no night deaths on night one, and two last night do you think we have a vig or an SK in addition the the remaining scum?

[DragonsofSummer]

EbWOP: I just realized that what I posted looks a lot like fishing, but that isn't what it is intended as. I am merely asking for the town as a whole for speculation.

[DragonsofSummer]

Major FoS: STD , also unvote

I think it could be a godfather, but why would he show up innocent?

Sometimes a mod will make a godfather immune to the cop so that if the cop investigates the godfather comes up town. It is just a little boost to help the scum out in their goals.

[DragonsofSummer]

yeah he did, but you put your vote back on skruffs! Nice hammer on yourself there Skruffs.

[DragonsofSummer]

Sweet no night deaths last night. I am going to start today off with a

Vote:TSQ

because I didn't like how much he didn't seem to care that other people believed Skruffs claim and wanted him dead no matter what.

[DragonsofSummer]

You didn't even seem to care that there was a chance his claim was true and wanted to kill him any way. My sentance was very convoluted, you're right, but that is what it is trying to say.

[DragonsofSummer]

You keep saying that about arguements I make and I'm starting to find it funny. All I'm saying is you rushed into that lynch. It is fine if you didn't believe the claim, but you never really even gave him a chance either. You were dead set that he was the lynch for the day and tried to steer everyone else to that as well. A day three with no discussion at all is bad for the town in my opinion and I feel that you in a large way helped get us there.

[DragonsofSummer]

Oh your question. I am not ignoring it, and the answer to it is no I do not feel that not lynching someone you believe to be scum is pro town play. But I also feel that quick lynching is not pro town play. Which is what I feel you were advocating yesterday.

[DragonsofSummer]

You actually state that you are in post 493. To be honest though it is really just a gut feeling about the events of yesterday that has my vote on you right now. I think that really we need to get more discussion going today than just us two.

[DragonsofSummer]

EBWOP: A gut feeling about the pushing for his quick lynch, and not really something you said.

[DragonsofSummer]

You're right I meant post 498.

[DragonsofSummer]

StD I believed Skruffs claim for a few reasons.

1. I knew Frozenstein is actually in Diablo II, having played it myself.

2. Remus who has said Diablo II is is favorite game knew Frozenstein was in Diablo, and believed that he would be aligned that way. This second reason may be misguided, but I feel that remus is town and so am willing to believe him, especially based after yesterdays actions.

[DragonsofSummer]

1. I knew Frozenstein is actually in Diablo II, having played it myself.

And I know Robert Paulson is in Fight Club but that doesn't mean I am Robert Paulson if I say I am.

This is true, but the fact that I knew the character was in the game made it more believable for me than if I didn't know it to be true. Through the same train of thought I would be more inclined to believe a Robert Paulson claim in Fight Club Mafia than say a claim of Marv (from Sin City).

2. Remus who has said Diablo II is is favorite game knew Frozenstein was in Diablo, and believed that he would be aligned that way. This second reason may be misguided, but I feel that remus is town and so am willing to believe him, especially based after yesterdays actions.

1) You believe his opinion because he is town? Please tell me you also believe it on grounds that it is logical.
2) Once again. Robert Paulson's not really a bad guy. I could probably convince you as such in a game of Fight Club Mafia. Doesn't make it true.

1. Yes, the fact that it was logical played into it.
2. I already addressed this point.

Did you have any reason to trust Skruffs after he edited wikipedia to incorporate his claim and then claimed something else?

That was scummy of him I have to agree with you, but still just because a Wiki page doesn't exist for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist (he should not have made his own for it though). I never believed his second claim was serious. I thought it was a joke from the beginning and treated it as such.

[DragonsofSummer]

I actually do think at this point that if TSQ is not scum there is a good chance STD is because he has sat on the fence most of the game so far and is still not adding much to the game. He has called Remus scum with no real reason for it than that Remus called him scum that I can tell.

[DragonsofSummer]

I fail to see why STD as scum would attempt to derail a wagon on a townie.

I don't really think that him saying he doesn't think you are scum, but scummier than Stoofer, and telling you why DWA doesn't work qualifies as trying to derail your wagon.

If you are refering to his remus vote, if he is scum, then maybe he suspects remus of having a power role as a townie and wants him dead during the day so he can look at other options for the night.

[DragonsofSummer]

Wow... awkward...

Well I did like the post STD made about Remus, and it made me more suspicious of him. He has moved up to the other scum possibility on my list rather than STD because of it, and because I made a mistake when looking at STD's posts earlier in the game. As dumb as it is I had decided he was scum if TSQ wasn't before even looking. This was made apparent to me quickly afterwards and was somewhat affirmed by his post against Remus. Since everyone seems to think that if TSQ isn't scum Remus is, why don't we lynch Remus today and see where that takes us?

[DragonsofSummer]

Awww... if you're gonna go to all that trouble at least hit me!

[DragonsofSummer]

Thats fine with me

Unvote, Vote Remussaidow

.

[DragonsofSummer]

He more of shatters when he is killed if I remember correctly, but it has been a while since I played the game, and even longer since I've killed Frozenstein. I can tell you that Nihlathak is definately a character in the game.

[DragonsofSummer]

Just a point Nihlathak is not nearly as minor of a character as Frozenstein, and is definately Prime Evil aligned. He is working for Baal (Diablo's brother). But the real question comes down to whether or not we believe his claim.

[DragonsofSummer]

Vote Thestatusquo

Are you really gonna give yourself up this easily?

[DragonsofSummer]

You aren't very convincing and I'll tell you why. My mason group has a few abilities that go with it, one of which is to roleblock and we've roleblocked you the last two nights. Lo and behold there have been no deaths over the past two nights as well. I'm relatively certain you are scum at this point tsq because I highly doubt that the remaining scum(s) would pass up the chance to kill for two nights in a row.

[DragonsofSummer]

The only reason I voted Remus was because I felt that there was no way that TSQ would be lynched yesterday, and since I knew if we had another night with no kill I could catch TSQ for sure I wanted to get to today.

[DragonsofSummer]

You were kind of screwed when you came in TSQ I will admit that. I'm surprised you let me a claimed mason stay alive so long, but I guess it was an easier decision for you since I left out that we had abilities attached to our mason group.