Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Adele]

I have no inclination one way or the other. To balance the field out, I'm gonna start with an arb vote.

Vote: Shamrock

[Adele]

OMG, you suck!

[Adele]

Well, if several people have a few votes, we can react more effectively to new information than if only one person has a few. I guess I'm taking the verbose attitude to this: there should be about 3-ish "nominated" (ie at high risk) individuals so that we can react to info quickly (I mean, what if the cop claims half an hour before the deadline?) but the scum can't string up one individual suddenly without it being highly noticable.

[Adele]

I put that really badly. I'm not saying that we should pick 3 people, put them at risk of lynch and let it play out from there; I suggesting we vote with that intention but let it develop more organically. If you know what I mean... like, the situation we have at the moment, of two people in the "danger zone", nosing ahead and falling back as popular opinion changes, would be pretty good if not for the fact that I'm one of the two .

I'm just trying to think what we can do to make this game play out differently than 100mph did; it seems to me that this mechanic favours the scum by making the lynch more random, and I thought this would at very least narrow the field. I dunno. Does anyone else have any particular ideas?

SV, I'm not a huge fan of OMGUS voting; it's a part of my maintaining the delusion that I'm not a petty person, and there's no real logic behind OMGUS votes. I made an OMGUS pun, though; does that count for anything?

[Adele]

SV, I'm not a huge fan of OMGUS voting; it's a part of my maintaining the delusion that I'm not a petty person, and there's no real logic behind OMGUS votes. I made an OMGUS pun, though; does that count for anything?

Welcome to one of the few games that does not contain SV

ROFL. I guess I meant pablito.

In the - and I'll be honest here - interests of reducing the risk level that I'm at so if deadline falls in five minutes I don't get autolynched,

unvote, vote: Jack

. Sorry, Jack; it's not based on any particular suspicion of you, although I obviously trust you less than I trust me.

[Adele]

unvote

because I have no idea where the votecount's at.

So people seem to be split between thinking my idea's appalling and thinking that it's only slightly lame; does anyone have any other ideas? Besides trying to play tight, and each of us voting the person we most suspect at any given time, how can we balance this game back towards the town?

[Adele]

like ive said already, i only ever have my well being in mind. thats just how i play. by keeping myself alive i am protecting a 100% villager. i play like this as good or evil, just check my other games (ogre village mafia in particular) and you will see this.

~That's not good pro-town play. For example, if you were a bodyguard who had a very good inkling who the cop was, would you protect him and potentially die in his stead? Bad for your self-protect agenda but good for your win conditions.

Sorry in rush more in a few hours

[Adele]

OK. First off:

Nice scaremongering... "Quick people, make rushed decisions! It's your only hope!"

This I approve of, actually. I for one am terrified. If the deadline drops now I'm dead, and why? because I didn't find the time to defend myself. I run over schedule and only have ten minutes online before I go to work; I check this thread, no other, and I only have time to make one quick comment. What do I do? Not post at all, make the only comment I have time for and apologise there's not more, or arrive late at work? I chose the second. At this point, I have no truck with anyone pushing the "slow down, think this through then act" agenda. We have to act

while

thinking and we have to do a lot of both. Hence 101mph. So I really don't like that Kenji tried to condemn that attitude.
I also don't like Kenji's response to Yamahako (the random voting stuff). Not because it was marginally out of context (although Reading Things Properly Is Your Friend) but because he's really missing the point here of mafia. The issue's not "will X

probably

land us scum" but "Does X stand the best chance of all available strategies" - mucho abduction. I feel like Kenjie's deliberately splitting hairs rather than saying somehting useful.
Finally, people

should

defend people they trust, depending upon the extent to which they trust them. I don't know if omg is masons or whatever with the third party (who I don't offhand recall) - if omg was less than forthcoming about the specifics of heis reasons, ok. That's not lying, and it's not necessarily scummy. Point is, if he omg wants to vote for "X" to get "Y" out of danger, that's not even necessarily odd - in fact it's preciesly what I did earlier (in self defence) and may do again at the end of this post (bearing in mind that votecounts can change inside of 5 mins v easily in this game)

So, I'm really not loving Kenji right now. He seems to be posting a lot of tosh.

I agree with Jack that Ecto's explanation of his vote on me seemed inconsistent. It's like "it's this, but this isn't relevant, it's that instead; I never said it was that, it's this. Duh!" come on, man. At another point, ecto's like

If this were fencing, which of course verbally it is, I would say that Jack has certainly scored more points. I doubt that I am as skilled or experienced. I don't know that I can do a quote be quote rebuttal that would satisfy.

-A "poor me newbie" comment if I ever saw one, when Jack's not shown a "point-scoring" attitude at all. weak.

Omg's rigidly anti-town play (well, that's how I see it anyway; has he even read his WC?) is pissing me off. Note also that he didn't acutally answer (in 125) the question I asked (in 118). hmm actually looking back it wasn't 100% clear that was a real, not rhetorical quesiton I was asking omg. omg, could you please answer the hypothetical I asked in 118? Id' be grateful.

Pablito, omg_i'm, what the heck is this whole swap-meet thing you guys have got going? votes are of equal, objective power, why on earth would you swap them, except to confuse everyone? Please don't, that's just mean
(seriously, WTH?)

I'm sorry, I don't get the wagon on river, so I won't join it right now. I'll take another look in the morning, if I have time. Right now, I trust Jack, I suspect kenji and ecto, I'm very annoyed at omg which always interferes with my reads, so I'm gonna sleep on that, and I'm variously agreeiong with and confused by pablito.

[Adele]

My opinion is that, this early in the game, its never good for the doc to counterclaim as it only gives the mafia what they want anyway. Its been my experience (and many other players seem to take the same stance) that you should lynch all Day 1 doc claims. That being said I think OMG is more likely a noob than mafia - thus my dillema and my questions.

rofl you are calling me a noob. i am 50 times the player you will ever be. you paid no attention to this game and screwed town completely. this is the worst gameplay idea i have ever seen in my life.

you are a useless townie or a terrible scum, either way hopefully you are a dead man walking.

"lol U are teh noob, Noob! Ph3R3 My L33T 5K1LLZ!!!! You suk & I Rule..."

seriously, omg, grow up. Yama's reaction made sense to me. You read like the ramblings of a madman; were we really expected to read between the lines? You made it insanely obvious that you're the most important person to YOU - never connecting it to the wellbeing of town.

I

certainly didn't pick up on it.

Meanwhile, you're drunkenly belligerent until you get into the lead, then panic and start posting ultimatums (you, what, assume yama's still online and saw your order?) which contribute nothing to the game.

I'm really pissed off with you. You could've died last night, and it would've been your fault. Yes,

yours

. The doc shouldn't be looking to make it "insanely obvious", the doc should be trying to quietly contribute to the game but not do anything likely to put them in the firing line for either a lynch or an NK. If the scum have picked up on your clues you'd've been picked off tonight anyway.

Anyway, you're the doc (

Patrick I disagree, if there is another/"real" doc, don't claim, we can always lynch omg later but if you come out now scum have swapped an inevitable scumlynch for an inevitable scumlynch but they know who the doc is to NK

). You're out of danger. Would you mind laying off being such a jackass and letting us play?

Vote: Ectomancer

I don't think Yama's the play. Maybe because I'm so sympathetic to his frustration with, oh, everything that omg has done.

[Adele]

Well, if he can get out of it through sensible posting, like I did, then that's preferable, even if there's a slight risk. In this case it's really up to him, though I get your point - but I think omg set a bad precedent.

[Adele]

unvote, vote: Kenji

. I really don't like any of the logic he's brought to the table today, and pressuring someone to claim - why? So if he claims vanilla townie "we'll all know he's not scum"??? That claim wouldn't intrinsically convince me.

I'm opposed to the wagon on yama too, by the way. I also have had a lot of misgivings about much of what mog has said and done, but have worked to quiet those feelings in myself because of my history with DrippingGoofball (she posted nonsense, for example claiming vanilla when she was a mason, and I wanted her lynched as a result. Happened again. Now we're nemeses and we don't play together) - When I feel that level of frustration rising, I remind myself that just because the player's moronic doesn't make them scum, and so I've tried to stay quietish on the omg discussion. I'm sympathetic to Yama's reaction, though, because that really could've been me (and, more likely, me when townie then me when scum).

[Adele]

I'm not certain - by a heck of a way - that Kanji is pro-town. I'm voting for him because I suspect him.

[Adele]

Possibly; I certainly don't think it's confirming.

[Adele]

*Raises hand*
Go ahead and get rid of me, i don't care. I was entertaining the idea of quitting, but being lynched is much less problematic.

I can't believe I missed that. That's annoying. No time for a replacement this game, but riverwind, that's really uncool. If you'd pm'd the mod 48 hours ago he probably would've been able to dig up a replacement by now, but instead you've harmed the entire game. Whether you're scum or not, that's a bad attitude to have. Please pm the mod immediately requesting replacement; there's still a snowball's chance in hell he can fit someone in in time who can convince us of his worth.

unvote, vote: riverwind

[Adele]

omg if we dont lynch pablito today please pablito as a favour just kill me tonight i dont want to play any more.

I'm really not fond of the "I'm-a-hairs-breath-from-quitting" ultimatums you're bringing to the table, omg. Your play has been dire all game - I know you think you're the smartest person here, but this has been said by several people now - and maybe you should be thinking about what you can learn from the rest of us.

However, the plan makes sense (don't get cocky; it's about the first thing you've said that does, and your analysis of consequences is in my view misleading to an almost disingenuous extent). If Pablito turns up town, then it's kind of a pity that we sacrificed him, but what the hey, it'd still be a win for him, and if he turns up scum then that's all good.

vote: Pablito

btw, Jack, Pablito, did neither of you even

consider

investigating omg? Knowing one way or the other on him would've been really useful. I mean, really; we have a cop, a deputy

and

a doc? I would like to hear it from somewhere other than the horse's mouth, you know?

[Adele]

I was much more interested in pablito. We'll find out about omg soon enough. The mafia pretty much have to kill him.

If he

is

doc. What if he's alive tomorrow, day after that? I dunno, I'm really concerned that if he survived last night, it's likely he'll survive tonight, so we might need to investigate him eventually... and what if it's too late?
Sorry, I'm being paranoid, I know. It makes me shifty that his playstyle makes him automatically look scummy to me; it's like, what do hospitals do with chronic hypochondriacs? Because they get sick too, you know. What do we do with the auto-scummy-looker? Because he might just be scum.

Plus, my word, it doesn't matter if everyone here stacks up on Pablito, does it? We've just gotta wait the mod-man out.

Uh. I might not be able to post this weekend. If that's a problem, I'm ok with being replaced (although I can probably sneak away and post once or twice), but honestly is it likely I'll be needed before Monday? This looks like a lock for the Day.

[Adele]

unvote, vote: pablito

The plan works, at least I got a positive investigation out of the game.

But shouldn't you still prefer a lynch on Jack or Ecto?

Maybe if I get an unanimous vote, we could go to night early.

2. The player with the most votes when the day ends is the lynch. It does not matter if that player has 1 vote or 12 votes.

So, I doubt it. I don't think Arafax cares when

we

want day to end.

[Adele]

Well when I'm lynched and found out to be the real cop, then you guys lynch Ecto and Jack. So really, a Jack or Ecto lynch would be optimal,

See, that, there annoys me. If you know a lynch on you is sub-optimal, then you're supporting it why?

NM. I mean, could be you're scum just giving up, could be you're town just giving up. Your lynch is pretty much inevitable anyway now. It's just a pet peeve of mine.

[Adele]

honestly im fed up of reading your judgmental ramblings in every post you make.

only the posts that address you, actually.

Of course, I'm fed up with your ramblings too, but it's not like we can just ignore each other until we go away, is it? I do think it's adorable, though, that you call me judgemental and declare yourself better than me in the same post.

[Adele]

That's... weird. I'm sorry, I can only imagine Jack's paranoid... or he's scum with pablito and bussed him! - but then who's the

real

cop? I need to think about this (or doublecheck my role pm )

[Adele]

...nope, no idea. I guess I'm a miller, but the mod's not confirming or denying that.

Tomorrow morning, don't lynch Jack; he's been very pro-town all game. If he presents another guilty, follow him. There can't be 2 millers. Only then lynch him if that person's also innocent. My picks'd be: Hemisphere Dancer, and Kenji. I'd be very very surprised if Jack or Yama were scum.

I'm vanilla. I didn't actually get a word in all-caps in my PM, so I called the mod up, and he said that vanillas didn't all get the same PM.

[Adele]

No, I agree. I'm the play for today. Obviously, there are no hard feelings.
I'd be curious to hear from Jack why he investigated me; usually I'd wait until after the game finished to ask, but it seems to me we've nothing better to discuss, since most people are now just waiting for me to die.

[Adele]

Dude. Cop and a doc, both backed up? That seems a little broken to me. Did we ever stand a chance?

[Adele]

Huge mistake in not going for omg the first night. I said that if we keep him alive, we have to be willing to keep him alive until end game because that's when the doctor unkilled doubt would start. We were too confident that omg could get lynched earlier than later.

Plus we didn't know there was a cop... and another cop... and a backup doc. There was no way to predict those in the setup; cop+doc is a very powerful combo as is.

if we'd killed omg that first night, yamahako and jack probably would not have come out, so they'd probably have ended up with a full set of investiagtions anyhow. I'm going to have to go back and reread, but this seems really unwinnable. Maybe the town was just unlucky in the first games; apparently the majority of mini scum wins are flawless, so a clean win on the scum's part is not necessarily indicative of an unbalanced game.

[Adele]

fun, though; one of the very, very few games that I've continued reading after my death.

[Adele]

And then you'd've probably come out day 3 with guilties on both pablito and I, and the nurse would've protected you that night... only thinking the doc dead we'd have tried to hit you that night so we'd be down an NK too... and we'd've lost.

And that makes me a sad panda

[Adele]

I dunno... does the setup actually change the balance? We assume so from the first game, but like I say flawless scum wins are pretty common. I'd suggest balancing the next game like a standard mini

[Adele]

I'm really not sure it does. All the day-ending things that scum do to close or steer discussion are out of their hands.

[Adele]

Oh, and btw:

ebwop: I'd like it if we kept these two within one vote of each other though.

My plan was

not

scummy (I had repressed awareness of my alignment; surprisingly easy when playing 6 different games) and it wasn't stupid. It probably would have been the natural approach of people, ahnd my mistake was suggesting it in so many words. I would've done the same as town though; truly.

[Adele]

Basically the adage of short days hurt the town applies here.

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

[Adele]

What, people don't get lynched for crap reasons in more typical minis? I know that's not true, because I have, on occasion, been lynched.

The game might've felt tougher to you, but it felt tougher to me too. There were fewer tacticsw available for you? Me too. I'm really unconvinced.

[Adele]

That would be kind of cool - same rules but the day ends every 24 hours? 24 hour Mafia has a nice ring to it

24 hrs is way, insanely, too fast. You really need at [li]lest[/i] 48-72, even with all the prewarnings and stuff, because, you know,

life happens

[Adele]

Could try a game like this where only scum know when the deadlines will hit.

that

would be interesting...