Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Patrick]

Where did you see role names before game end?

Lynch scenes and front page. If you had been a GF, I would expect pablito and Adele to be called mafia goons.

[Ectomancer]

That would be a rather weak game mechanic dont you think? According to comments in another game by Seol, information "telling" in the setup is avoided as much as possible on mafiascum. Otherwise, I would have fully expected to see OMG killed as the "Head Doctor" or something to equally tip off another role. I had no indication from his kill that a nurse might be out there, so why would the town get a tip off that a Godfather exists?

[pablito]

Huge mistake in not going for omg the first night. I said that if we keep him alive, we have to be willing to keep him alive until end game because that's when the doctor unkilled doubt would start. We were too confident that omg could get lynched earlier than later.

Of course, I was going for a Yamahako (or HD) kill and he was protected anyway...

The game was mainly Jack vs. scum if you look at it. Jack won the game, hands down. Although if you look back at D1, scum was bussing each other hard (my votes except for omg were only on scum). If it weren't for that, it could've been a much much easier game for town. I do wish Adele had distanced even harder during D2 though.

I'm not sure that cop + doc + deputy + nurse is necessarily unbalanced, but there was a breaking strategy. Once cop and deputy were out there, there was no way possible for scum to win. I think the nurse was the thing that put game into town favor. If the nurse was substituted for a blocker and/or any other role, there would've been a fighting chance.

The timelines actually helped the town more than scum this time because town was smart enough to claim earlier than later. Had omg or scotmany been lynched instead of having to be NKed, scum could've also had a chance.

[Patrick]

That would be a rather weak game mechanic dont you think? According to comments in another game by Seol, information "telling" in the setup is avoided as much as possible on mafiascum. Otherwise, I would have fully expected to see OMG killed as the "Head Doctor" or something to equally tip off another role. I had no indication from his kill that a nurse might be out there, so why would the town get a tip off that a Godfather exists?

From what I know if it, it's a fairly common thing. In all the games I've played where there was a GF, the other scum also have names like mafia goon or mafia roleblocker. When talking to PJ about a setup, he told me that if I was putting a GF in, I should remember to call the other mafia 'mafia goons'. As for the doc thing, I've never heard of anything like giving scum a hint of a nurse exisiting. Admitedly I haven't seen too many games that feature the nurse role.

The plan to get omg lynched was probably too optimistic. I know I wouldn't have voted for an uncountered doc. That was one reason I was suspicious of Adele after I died, she kept trying to throw doubt on him. For the same reason I suspected Jack before he claimed, because coming out on day 2 and saying how strange it is that the poweroles have survived is a fairly classic scumline.

[Yamahako]

I think mafia needed a godfather, the hit on ectomancer clinched it - If the last scum was able to hide from investigation it would have been a bit closer.

That being said, if JAck wasn't so good at nailing investigations the game would have gone on a lot longer.

[Adele]

Huge mistake in not going for omg the first night. I said that if we keep him alive, we have to be willing to keep him alive until end game because that's when the doctor unkilled doubt would start. We were too confident that omg could get lynched earlier than later.

Plus we didn't know there was a cop... and another cop... and a backup doc. There was no way to predict those in the setup; cop+doc is a very powerful combo as is.

if we'd killed omg that first night, yamahako and jack probably would not have come out, so they'd probably have ended up with a full set of investiagtions anyhow. I'm going to have to go back and reread, but this seems really unwinnable. Maybe the town was just unlucky in the first games; apparently the majority of mini scum wins are flawless, so a clean win on the scum's part is not necessarily indicative of an unbalanced game.

[Adele]

fun, though; one of the very, very few games that I've continued reading after my death.

[Jack]

Well, if omg had died I probably wouldn't have claimed, and it's a toss up who would have got lynched seeing how short day 2 was.

[Adele]

And then you'd've probably come out day 3 with guilties on both pablito and I, and the nurse would've protected you that night... only thinking the doc dead we'd have tried to hit you that night so we'd be down an NK too... and we'd've lost.

And that makes me a sad panda

[Patrick]

Maybe don't use that setup next time Arafax >.>
Trackers or watchers are fair alternatives if you don't want cops. Balance will always be tough with the unique deadline rules though.

[Arafax]

Cool...Thanks for the tips...I'll definatley be doing 102 MPH sometime...I'll probably use these ideas....Thanks again for all of the help and thoughts.

[Adele]

I dunno... does the setup actually change the balance? We assume so from the first game, but like I say flawless scum wins are pretty common. I'd suggest balancing the next game like a standard mini

[Patrick]

I would not suggest setting it up as a standard mini. The deadline mechanic hurts the town alot.

[Adele]

I'm really not sure it does. All the day-ending things that scum do to close or steer discussion are out of their hands.

[Adele]

Oh, and btw:

ebwop: I'd like it if we kept these two within one vote of each other though.

My plan was

not

scummy (I had repressed awareness of my alignment; surprisingly easy when playing 6 different games) and it wasn't stupid. It probably would have been the natural approach of people, ahnd my mistake was suggesting it in so many words. I would've done the same as town though; truly.

[Patrick]

Hmm. Maybe you'd think the opposite if you'd played it as pro town. As I see it, having much less time for discussion forces the town to lynch ppl for weak reasons, with fewer chances to analyse behaviour. The unpredictability of it makes it very hard to decide when is the right time to roleclaim, and any problems the town has with lurkers/non contributors are ten times worse. Basically the adage of short days hurt the town applies here.

[Adele]

Basically the adage of short days hurt the town applies here.

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

how you guys lynched mayhem there is beyond me. there was an innocent result! i was actually reading it at the time and going... hmm will they lynch HD or ecto, which one is correct (tbh i really didnt know, well played ecto)... and then, bang! lynch the confirmed innocent! rofl

great game anyway, thanks to mod

[M4yhem]

I played very badly this game. I was basically wrong about everything and everyone. All the scum seemed pro-town.
Still don't understand how I ended up being lynched though.

Jack, you had an amazing game.

I think the setup was a little unbalanced in favour of the town. The speed of the game didn't really make must difference in my view; there were times when I was actually impatient for the day to end. Of course, that was because of the cop domination; once a confirmed cop has a guilty on someone, there's really nothing more to say. I think a watcher instead of a deputy and a roleblocker instead of a nurse would give the game a bit more variety and the scum more of a chance. Having the deputy get all the cop's results when he dies is also a bit much imo.

Still, the game was really fun. Arafax- will you please consider me as signed up for 102 mph whenever you decide to run it?

Good game, all.

[Patrick]

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

Yes, but the point is, we lynch ppl for really crap reasons. Look at the riverwind lynch. Without a flood of cop investigations, there might have been more lynches like that.

[Yamahako]

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

Yes, but the point is, we lynch ppl for really crap reasons. Look at the riverwind lynch. Without a flood of cop investigations, there might have been more lynches like that.

/agree

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Hee~ this game was fun. Sorry I lurked so much; I guess if we hadn't have had such an awesome cop, I would have been gone ages ago.

[Adele]

What, people don't get lynched for crap reasons in more typical minis? I know that's not true, because I have, on occasion, been lynched.

The game might've felt tougher to you, but it felt tougher to me too. There were fewer tacticsw available for you? Me too. I'm really unconvinced.

[Patrick]

What, people don't get lynched for crap reasons in more typical minis? I know that's not true, because I have, on occasion, been lynched.

It may happen, but in those cases the town usually made the choice to do it. Here it's forced on the town.

[Ectomancer]

Dont forget, if your day was shortened to find mafia, so was our opportunity to flush out power roles like the nurse. That would have made a big difference I think.