Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Patrick]

Vote: Pablito

[Patrick]

Mine was a random vote. As for his, you'd have to ask him.

[Patrick]

Don't forget that in this game there is no such thing as a hammer vote. The day just ends at deadline. It can't finish earlier.

Having played in 100 mph, I'll point out that it really does go fast. Today could last only 3 or 4 days, so we really need to get out of the blocks as soon as possible. We can't really spend 2 days random voting and joking around.

[Patrick]

So this isn't a normal normal then?

It's not a normal mini. It requires hyper activity.

[Patrick]

I remember 100 mph where Brutal Assassin made a suggestion that we keep a certain number of votes on no lynch at all times, as well as having our suspects up there. I can't really remember his reasons, but the plan was shot down. He was pro town though, if it's relevant.

I'm not thrilled with the suggested plan, for mostly reasons already given by the other two guys. I don't know how scummy it is to suggest it though. One thing I am wary of is getting into a long debate about the pros and cons of a certain plan. That kind of thing lost the game for the town last time round, because the town spent too long arguing about the merits of no lynching, spreading votes out etc. and not enough time talking about actual suspects.

Pablito is more likely pro town than not due to his last post, which shows some urgency to get things moving.
After Preview:

Unvote, Vote: Shamrock

who voted pablito for doing something I consider a pro town action.

[Patrick]

I'm just trying to think what we can do to make this game play out differently than 100mph did; it seems to me that this mechanic favours the scum by making the lynch more random, and I thought this would at very least narrow the field. I dunno. Does anyone else have any particular ideas?

The speed mechanic is very good for the scum. Last time it was balanced by having a very town friendly setup (2 mafia v 1 cop, 1 doc, 1 roleblocker, 7 townies). I haven't thought of any real improvements yet other than not spending the whole of day 1 debating the merits of no lynching I suppose we have to be more nitpicky than normal and more decisive.

SV, I'm not a huge fan of OMGUS voting; it's a part of my maintaining the delusion that I'm not a petty person, and there's no real logic behind OMGUS votes. I made an OMGUS pun, though; does that count for anything?

Welcome to one of the few games that does not contain SV

[Patrick]

In the - and I'll be honest here - interests of reducing the risk level that I'm at so if deadline falls in five minutes I don't get autolynched, unvote, vote: Jack. Sorry, Jack; it's not based on any particular suspicion of you, although I obviously trust you less than I trust me.

I think scum tend to do this more than town. I sincerely hope the deadline would not have fallen anytime yesterday. We wouldn't have much of a game if it did.

Yama still missing then. I hope he read the game description when he signed up. If you want something normal, any other game would have been better. I'm cool with a

Vote: Ectomancer

for now, as I didn't much like the justification for the vote.

[Patrick]

Someone can come up with a crap reason to jump off a buddies wagon too because a person looks like town.

Can you explain this a bit more? If scum are forced to come up with crap reasons to switch their votes, doesn't that give us information to work with?

[Patrick]

this is so insanely wrong its not even funny.

lynch can come at ANY time.

if i am on 3 votes and someone else is on 3 votes i am auto-changing my vote to them. why? because i know i am town therefore by saving myself i am saving a townie.

the fact that you dont have this mindset already makes me suspicious of you patrick; particularly when you are using this fuzzy logic to push the wagon of someone who is a likely lynch candidate for today.

I say it because I've only seem scum do it. I'm sure townies have done it too, but it's an argument I've seen from and even used myself as scum. I also remember one of the scumbags from the last game doing that exact same thing. Lynch can in theory come at any time, but after what less than 2 days? No. I would be seriously annoyed with any mod who gave us that fast a deadline. That would be completely stupid.

The fact that you're saying I'm 'pushing the wagon of a likely lynch candidate for today' is wrong; I'm voting for Estomancer, not bandwagoning against Adele. Being suspicious of me for not having the mindset you describe is also ridiculous - scum would certainly have survival at the forefront of there minds.

[Patrick]

1) whether or not scum would vote to survive is completely irrelevant as to whether pro-town would. the point im making is that both parties would make the exact same play so nothing can be drawn from it. you refuted none of my argument whatsoever.

My point is I don't think both parties would not necessarily act the same. But in any case, you tried to throw suspicion on me because I don't have the same mindset as you. Now you're saying that you think scum and town would act the same way. So how the hell could it have made you suspicious of me?

2) of course you wouldnt jump on. that would be stupid and would expose you as scum if adele ends up getting lynched as pro-town. if you were scum, a much better play would be to drop a line accusing her without actually putting the vote on, hopefully getting her lynched by others falling for your shoddy logic and leaving you in the clear. i mean my god do you honestly think that all scum work on the first level? if they did this game would be too easy. what is even going through your head when you make a comment like that? how is that a defense??

You're making the assumption that scum won't add a vote onto a voteleader because it would seem too obvious. Scum act in a variety of different ways. You are making a WIFOM argument. Some scum might pile on. Some might subtly try to push a wagon. Some might stay out of the way. Some might defend an innocent and try and make a friend.

I pointed out my observation because I think in a game like this we shouldn't be keeping things to ourselves. I don't think it's a very strong thing at all - I certainly wouldn't try to push for a lynch based on that only.

pre-emptive - DONT take apart the above paragraph if you dont understand the point im making.

This is priceless. You think you're awesome right?

Your FoS on pablito is strange too. I can't decide whether it's scummy or just being childish or what.

[Patrick]

I checked back. First day was about 3 days and 2 hours long. Pretty urgent. I remember day 2 being longer. After that I was dead.

[Patrick]

why would townies not vote to survive as adele did?

please answer that. you had no reason to infer suspicion from her post and imo you know that. tbh it sounds more like you are being stubborn and cant accept your mistake than a scum trying to get out of it... but either way it should be known that your point is wrong

I thought it odd to be thinking of survival in that way at such a very early stage. I assure you, I'm not acting stubborn, if I'm arguing this it's because I think it's worth it.

yes. a variety of different ways. and imo smart scum would act in the way i described in the above quote, which is why i found it scummy.

A legit disagreement I suppose. I would wager you don't know much about how I might play as scum though.

my recent post should fix that up. and i dont think im that awesome at this game.... but i think im quite a few levels up from the majority of people on this particular site. i pre-empt things like that because i know that so many players here will go.... 'i dont understand... he must be scummy' and we go off on ridiculous tangents

It's noted I'm experienced enough not to just say 'Hmm this guy is weird, I don't understand, let's just kill him cuz it's easy'.

[Patrick]

unvote, vote pablito for that mass of text on page 2, it screamed "I'm being helpful, don't lynch me" to me... aka a scum tell.

This is horrible logic. Promoting discussion is a pro town action right. Doubly so in a game like this where we're under a fast deadline. So if pablito does something that appears pro town, and is generally considered pro town, then why can't he just be pro town? Why do you automatically give him this scummy motive for no reason?

[Patrick]

in fact possible scum link between jack and patrick for picking up the same insignificant details in kenjis post.

Nonsense. Kenji voted for someone for a really crap reason. It's not an insignificant detail to bring up.

[Patrick]

In fact, explain to me why you noted a possible link between Jack and me, while ignoring the fact that Yamahako actually voted Kenji for his post.

[Patrick]

Hemisphere Dancer - fancy posting some actual suspicions?

[Patrick]

I was ok with Adele before. Her justification was alright. But now I am a bit suspicious of her when I read all her posts so far in this game. She has commented mostly on making a plan of some sort, and not so much about suspicions. In particular her last post was made at a time when there was some debate going on, but she didn't really comment on it. Sometimes it is easy for scum to slip by commenting on general strategy. IGMEOY

I'm not really getting a scumvibe from Jack at all.

[Patrick]

I do agree with Kenji's assessment of patrick in 84 though. I mean, to borrow omg's earlier argument against Jack, I just don't get how Patrick could defend me so early at that point. I mean, yeah, Patrick and I have a history, but it was a bit premature to pull out the card that Patrick did. It's like he went off chasing the boyband along with the redheads. Nonetheless, Patrick does look very pro-town aside from that. But 84 did perk my ears when I initially saw it.

Well pretty much because he voted you for a crap reason. Your post was good, it served a useful purpose which was to get discussion going. I think you would be less likely to make that post as scum, which is why I marked you as more pro town than average. Fairly simple reasoning really. I didn't see why kenji would immediately read a scummy motive into it. I find it strange that you critisise me for thinking you're pro town, while simultaneously calling me very pro town.

I'll comment on the rest after dinner. I'll probably do a brief thing on each player.

[Patrick]

Right pablito. I suppose I see what you're saying, though I think you read into to it too much. If it helps I didn't mean that you are pro town without a doubt.

Some of my assessment of Adele will rely on her next post. Right now I could see her as a lynching candidate.

Unlike some ppl, I'm having trouble judging the low contributors. I don't really see why some ppl get a pro town vibe from kenji. I don't think any of the logic he used makes sense. Not that he's scum for it either, but I don't see why he looks pro town. Scotmany I can't really judge either way. Riverwind has only made 2 posts, one funny thing I noticed was that in his first post he said he's good at being hyper, and in his second post he said "Back off guys, I have a life". And hemisphere dancer hasn't really posted any content yet either.

Yama's post 108 is noted in passing if Ecto turns out to be scum. Something in the way he said it seemed slightly weird, "I'm not defending him". Nitpicky I know.

[Patrick]

I'm not really feeling a riverwind lynch. I don't think even an OMGUS is a very scummy reaction coming from a relatively new player. I am looking forward to Adele's contribution.
I'm still a bit iffy about the wording of Yamahako's posts 107-108, like he wanted to defend Ectomancer, then quickly posted again to make it clear that he wasn't defending Ectomancer.

We've been going for just under 3 days now, for the record. So heads up that deadline lynch could strike us pretty much anytime now.

[Patrick]

So, I'm really not loving Kenji right now. He seems to be posting a lot of tosh.

Seems like a reasonable assessment.

Still cool with lynching Ectomancer. I would prefer that to an Adele lynch. Through gritted teeth I also prefer it to an OMG lynch. I think he's been quite illogical, and has said lots of things, some I agree with, many I don't agree with. I also don't like his survival stance thingy. I don't really get a scumvibe though. He's certainly not trying to avoid controversy or arguments. I will probably try and find a game with him as scum to read to tomorrow, too tired to do it now. I've skimmed two other games where he was town and it seems like he's always acting like this.

[Patrick]

I didn't so much mind Yamahako's original vote on OMG. I really don't like post 185 though. I thought he was justified in claiming doc at that time, since we don't know when deadline might hit. Sure it's bad to have a doc outed, but it's significantly worse to lynch the doc day 1, as we did last time. This way as he points out, the cop will get at least one investigation. The recommendation that we lynch him even after he claims is suspect. If nobody counterclaims, I'm pretty sure he's the doctor. If he isn't then the real doc needs to claim now. End of story.

1 - no reason for the doc to claim when he did, if he was the real doc - however plenty of reasons for scum to claim doc in that situation (defense, people afraid to vote, make the real doc claim)

Yes there was a reason for a real doc to claim in that situation as pointed out above.

2 - risk of leaving him alive could be greater than risk of killing him. If he isn't killed durring the night, we are left with the same dillema today (and every day he's alive) potentially leading us to kill more townies, or leading to the death of more townies.

No reason to assume he's not the doc unless there's a counterclaim. If he's the doc then I'm not going to complain if scum want to leave him alive.

3 - he COULD be mafia, meaning we want to kill him anyway - just assuming he's a townie at this point is dangerous.

Same as the last point.

4 - a player so bad he claims doc on day one when he's not under any serious pressure wouldn't necessarily be effective in that role anyway - meaning we have little to lose by offing a "power role"

This pings the scumdar I have to say. I just really don't like this justification. What do you mean by saying he wasn;t under serious pressure? He was in a situation where he would be lynched if the deadline came, and deadline could now come at anytime. I call that real pressure. Also, we're not here to lynch ppl who play badly. We aren't about to lynch a doc just to teach him a lesson. My win condition says lynch scum, maybe yours says lynch annoying ppl?

Freaking out like OMG seems more like a scum action than me (however it could also be a newbie action, so I'm willing to forgive it).

I also disagree with this. It sounded like a genuine reaction. Obviously it's massively exagerrated.

My opinion is that, this early in the game, its never good for the doc to counterclaim as it only gives the mafia what they want anyway. Its been my experience (and many other players seem to take the same stance) that you should lynch all Day 1 doc claims. That being said I think OMG is more likely a noob than mafia - thus my dillema and my questions.

This worries me. Looking back at your last few posts I get a small hunch, like you're subtly trying to get OMG lynched. I will say this:

If you are the real doctor Yamahako, and he is lying scum, just come out and say it. There's no way we're going to lynch an uncountered doctor.

If he is scum and your the doc, then trading yourself in is the best idea, especially given that we probably only have 2 scum. If that's not the game you're playing, then I see no justification for your play and will probably vote you.

[Patrick]

Anyway, you're the doc (Patrick I disagree, if there is another/"real" doc, don't claim, we can always lynch omg later but if you come out now scum have swapped an inevitable scumlynch for an inevitable scumlynch but they know who the doc is to NK). You're out of danger. Would you mind laying off being such a jackass and letting us play?

In the case of Yamahako, if he is the real doc and omg is scum, he should certainly claim now. Can you see the danger he's in? He could get lynched at any time.

[Patrick]

Playstyle difference maybe. I would likely err on the side of caution myself, given how short day 1 last game was. Nonethless, I think if Yama is the doc he should claim, he nails us a scum instantly, which is a big boost for us on day 1, especially if only 2 scum exist.

[Patrick]

heh
I've seen him online just a second ago. I will be around tonight mostly in case there is a lightning speed unvote needed. Oh wait, I'm not voting him anyway. Never mind.

[Patrick]

I am unequivocally not the doc. If someone is the doc, in no way should you counter claim omg.

X

[Patrick]

If we spend every day debating whether or not omg is scum, then we are giving mafia a huge edge this game.

True. Which is why we absolutely would need a real doc counterclaiming if OMG is scum. Then we could lynch scum, and go into day 2 with 10 players, most likely only one scum left.

But he is neither confirmed, nor acting how a typical doctor townie would act.

If a doc goes uncounterclaimed in a mini, they are generally thought of as near confirmed. Most minis have a doctor, unless it's an open setup that is specifically without a doc. I don't like your second point either. In Ogre Village mafia, he was the doctor, and acted pretty similarly to this. He annoyed ppl, did stupid things and was in trouble early. Are you suggesting we punish bad play here?

It's been my experience (and as I said many experienced people on this site, like Glork, seem to agree with me) that its best to lynch claimed docs on day 1.

I disagree. I don't think there is any kind of common consensus of lynching claimed docs on day 1. I will hopefully get onto Glork this evening, and ask him if he has a policy of doing that, my feeling is he doesn't.

[Patrick]

You should skim pablito's other games.

[Patrick]

Hmm. Maybe there is something in a riverwind lynch afterall. How is screaming "OMG I'M THE FREAKING DOC!" a scumtell?

[Patrick]

I think kenji is pro town.

[Patrick]

I'm interested in what Yamahako has to say right now.

[Patrick]

Skimming back through the game, I feel like I'm struggling to pick between a load of vague cases against different ppl. I suppose that is the nature of the game, but I don't really feel confident about anyone being scum.

On omg, I'm not going to vote him barring a counterclaim. I'm worried that some ppl still seem to be advocating it. I did not like riverwind's last post:

@scot do you have any other reasons for voting Yamahako? I still can't see why he is a problem.

Omg's huge outburst(while making me read a whole page of the same argument) convinced me that he is indeed a problem. The screaming HEY IM A FREAKIN DOC DON'T YOU DARE VOTE ME!! thing really looks to be a scum tell. knowing that omg is an experianced player on this and other sites, he should know not to make such noob mistakes.(actually once i did the same thing he is doning now on my first game. what i did was idiotic, almost got me lynched, then i got shot to death by the mafia Smile. )

Seems like vague reasoning to try and throw suspicion on a claimed doc. I don't know why the screaming bit is meant to be a scumtell. Knowing that he's experienced means you know he wouldn't make noob mistakes? What noob mistakes are you referring to? Is a noob mistake a scumtell? I would like this one explained a bit more.

I don't like the logic being used by Yamahako, since I don't believe that there is a strategy of lynching claimed docs being used by experienced players. I don't know if he made that up or thought there was or what. I've seen it advocated once before, in Speedy's New York game, by Baby Jesus, and he was the mafia godfather. Other than that, I don't remember seeing it anywhere. It doesn't make much sense to me.

Ectomancer made a slightly suspect vote on pablito, though I think he's a relatively new player, so he maybe isn't familiar with pablito's playstyle. A few of his last posts caught my eye. He voted Yamahako for apparently being really oppotunistic, then later downplayed it as a wrist slap. I don't generally see how a wrist slap applies to someone being oppotunstic. I mean I could see a wrist slap for say a lurker or something, as a kind of 'get your shit together' kind of vote, but I don't feel it for oppotunism.

[Patrick]

I'm not feeling the kenji lynch. I would rather lynch Estomancer or Yamahako.
I don't blame ppl for feeling annoyed at omg wtf i'm innocent, as he may be only 5 or 6 years old, but it's important to seperate that from the objective of lynching scum. Seriously if he's a real doc I don't see him bring around long. Scum can't afford to be leaving poweroles around, especially not in a setup that will likely already be favourable to the town.

[Patrick]

I do especially disagree with the idea that this set-up favors scum. I REALLY think this is heavily in their favor. Just the nature of not knowing when the deadline is - and one vote being so crucial, and them having the information available to them to help sway people to the wrong side time after time... we need to act quickly, but think soundly. The normal things you do in a game to find scum are still in effect, but you need to choose your voting strategy differently, and that difference favors the scum.

I assume you mean 'favours town' in the first line? You are right, the deadline is short and unpredictable - a huge help to scum. By the setup, I meant the role distribution. To counter the deadline mechanic, Arafax (last game) put in a low scum number (just 2) and gave the town 3 useful poweroles. That setup favours the town, in itself, the deadline mechanic makes it a balanced game. So my point is, if the setup is like that again, scum really can't be letting poweroles live.

Unvote, vote: Yamahako

since asking a few experienced players confirmed what I thought, there's no common policy of lynching claimed docs, and Glork doesn't support it.

[Patrick]

Yeah sorry, I didn't really see it last time because of the tags going wrong.

I picked up this:

Yeah I'm annoyed with omg, my annoyance isn't the issue as much as his attitude. Do you have faith in his ability to make solid choices on whom to protect at night? I don't. I don't think he's mafia though (gut feeling), but if he's ineffective at his role (in my opinion him claiming proves that he doesn't really understand how to play it - there is a ton of subtlety necessary in pulling off a good doc player that I don't see him being capable of that). That's why I questioned whether or not it was worth the risk. If it was a more reasonable player, who was really under pressure, and they felt they needed to claim I wouldn't have even considered it. However, at this point I think its best to look for scum as opposed to risk killing the doc.

I still don't see how you can maintain he wasn't under pressure. He was the vote leader, at a point where the deadline could fall at literally anytime. If I remember right the deadline for day 1 last game dropped even earlier than the point at which he claimed. And again, since pretty much all minis seem to have a doc, if he goes uncountered, I believe he can be trusted as pro town, no matter how good or bad a player he is. The reason I bring this up is that I've seen scum before try to force through lynches on someone behaving stupidly, in a way that may make them easy lynchbait, so it worries me somewhat.

What is your assessment of kenji's post 250?

[Patrick]

Ok Arafax has said that we cannot post our actual role PM. Other than that, have at it! I find votes on kenji to be suspect. Again, ppl voting him should tell me what they think of his post 250. I believe kenji is not the play.

Unvote, vote: Ectomancer

As Yamahako has now convinced me he's not the play either. I'm ok with his partial roleclaim for the moment. Not necessarily for the whole game, but seems fine for now.

[Patrick]

I've been unsure about saying this so directly, but deadline could hit anytime. From kenji's post 250, I believe he's a vanilla townie. It's clear that he thought Yamahako was claiming townie, and wanted to test him by seeing if he knew something of the townie PM (without quoting anything obv). I think it highly unlikely that a scumkenji would be bringing that up, since most likely he would be found to be lacking the knowledge that it seemed he was trying to test Yamahako on. I've tried to hint at this, and ask ppl what they thought about post 250 but it seems that the people voting him are either skimming or feigning ignorance. This was partly why I was suspicious of Yamahako, who didn't seem to pick up on this, and I also don't like the way Adele and Jack have managed to gloss over it. I don't particularly like coming out and saying it, but I feel that we should not be lynching kenji because I think he's likely town.

[Patrick]

Well I've also been reading between the lines with Yamahako and hoping I'm right in what I think he's saying too I think he's legit as well.

[Patrick]

Guys, I see little point in playing if you're planning on lynching someone who you know is a townie. If the mod was bothered about it, he would have posted a generic townie pm. He didn't, and hasn't objected to anything. So there's no rule being broken. The only ppl I can see being upset about that are scum.

[Patrick]

Hmm also I think I was wrong about what I thought Yamahako's role might be. I still don't think he's the play today.

[Patrick]

Unvote, vote: Riverwind

An oppotunistic vote from him on a practically confirmed townie. And he completely ignored my questions to him, as well as some that I think someone else asked.

For those that take offence with what kenji did, I think the best comprimise is if you ask for him to be modkilled. That way we still actually get to choose a lynch, and it doesn't hurt us much because we started with an even number. That's much better than lynching him.

[Patrick]

Post 257 would be the place to look. That and the fact that you just voted kenji for no reason, which just looked like an excuse to push a lynch forward.

Do you intend to a play the game without reading the posts? That's a bit worrying.

[Patrick]

Well, bed for me now. If the lynch happens while I'm asleep, I'll say this: If kenji is lynched and turns up vanilla, his voters need grilling tomorrow. Jack has definitely been around and quite deliberately kept his vote on. Even if you find it unethical what he did, a modkill is clearly a better way to deal with it than lynching him. Riverwind has nicely avoided answering any questions too.

[Patrick]

OMG said that his post was obviously a joke.

[Patrick]

Do you think that a scum would come out and ask someone for a word on the townie PM?

[Patrick]

It's not that far a leap of logic; I think that the logic that scum wouldn't do something like that is purely WIFOM.

It's not WIFOM at all. But both your reactions were interesting though.
Riverwind - any chance you might defend yourself and/or claim? It's pretty bad to just give up like that.
After preview:

I'm also getting a scummy feeling from Patrick, but I'm not sure why. IGMEOY Patrick.

I love it when ppl say that.

[Patrick]

Mod, that votecount is way off.

[Patrick]

wow this day has gone on for a while now compared to last time... Riverwind I would highly recommend claiming.

[Patrick]

I could go with a Riverwind lynch here.
Riverwind, I'm pretty sure I've already explained it clearly. Read posts and see it ya?

[Patrick]

Bah! Go town!

[Patrick]

OMG didn't die.

I didn't know

[Patrick]

A breezy sort of game. Quite different to last time as Arafax said. I think the setup maybe balanced, but with roles like those alot seems to depend on luck. Once the game turned into an excersise of just confirming players, the deadline mechanic was less relevant and the scum lost their biggest advantage.

As for the play, scum's main mistake was obviously killing me. I don't know why they would do that instead of kill the doctor, especially since it was pretty obvious I was a vanilla townie. That choice lead to Yamahako being able to make a virtually forced winning plan as early as day 2. Hmm. Lynching mayhem when there was an innocent investigation was strange, I thought from the role names of the scum, it was fairly clear there wasn't a GF. As far as I know, if scum have perks or abilities, they would come up as MAFIA GOON or MAFIA GODFATHER not just mafia scum. But it didn't matter in the end.

Best scum was probably pablito, at least he's the one that completely had me fooled. Jack and Yamahako played well for the town, among others. Thanks to Arafax for modding.

[Patrick]

Where did you see role names before game end?

Lynch scenes and front page. If you had been a GF, I would expect pablito and Adele to be called mafia goons.

[Patrick]

That would be a rather weak game mechanic dont you think? According to comments in another game by Seol, information "telling" in the setup is avoided as much as possible on mafiascum. Otherwise, I would have fully expected to see OMG killed as the "Head Doctor" or something to equally tip off another role. I had no indication from his kill that a nurse might be out there, so why would the town get a tip off that a Godfather exists?

From what I know if it, it's a fairly common thing. In all the games I've played where there was a GF, the other scum also have names like mafia goon or mafia roleblocker. When talking to PJ about a setup, he told me that if I was putting a GF in, I should remember to call the other mafia 'mafia goons'. As for the doc thing, I've never heard of anything like giving scum a hint of a nurse exisiting. Admitedly I haven't seen too many games that feature the nurse role.

The plan to get omg lynched was probably too optimistic. I know I wouldn't have voted for an uncountered doc. That was one reason I was suspicious of Adele after I died, she kept trying to throw doubt on him. For the same reason I suspected Jack before he claimed, because coming out on day 2 and saying how strange it is that the poweroles have survived is a fairly classic scumline.

[Patrick]

Maybe don't use that setup next time Arafax >.>
Trackers or watchers are fair alternatives if you don't want cops. Balance will always be tough with the unique deadline rules though.

[Patrick]

I would not suggest setting it up as a standard mini. The deadline mechanic hurts the town alot.

[Patrick]

Hmm. Maybe you'd think the opposite if you'd played it as pro town. As I see it, having much less time for discussion forces the town to lynch ppl for weak reasons, with fewer chances to analyse behaviour. The unpredictability of it makes it very hard to decide when is the right time to roleclaim, and any problems the town has with lurkers/non contributors are ten times worse. Basically the adage of short days hurt the town applies here.

[Patrick]

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

Yes, but the point is, we lynch ppl for really crap reasons. Look at the riverwind lynch. Without a flood of cop investigations, there might have been more lynches like that.

[Patrick]

What, people don't get lynched for crap reasons in more typical minis? I know that's not true, because I have, on occasion, been lynched.

It may happen, but in those cases the town usually made the choice to do it. Here it's forced on the town.

[Patrick]

Could try a game like this where only scum know when the deadlines will hit.