Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Zindaras]

Vote: spectrumvoid

We really really shouldn't let her live until endgame.

[Zindaras]

Why is voidybuns still alive? Surely you don't want her to live until endgame!

[Zindaras]

Why is that, Zindie?

When voidybuns gets in an endgame, town loses.

[Zindaras]

I'll vote for her the day before endgame if you vote for Thesp today. Deal?

You vote voidybuns tomorrow, I vote Thesp today. Deal?

[Zindaras]

That, spec, is the fine art of negotiation at work.

Indeed.

Unvote, Vote: Thesp

[Zindaras]

Zindaras, I demand that, for the good of the town, you unvote Thesp now.

FOS: ZINDARAS, CES

Uhm...why?

[Zindaras]

Oh, by the way, Cessy, how long do we have to keep our votes on Thesp/voidybuns?

[Zindaras]

FoS: AndrewS

That is one weeeeird suggestion.

[Zindaras]

Well, unless Stoofer went crazy with role assignment, chance is responsible, Glrok.

:lolposting:

/agree.

[Zindaras]

*shrugs*

I do what AndrewS did myself some times. Doesn't work very well in games like this. Too many good players. It's really quite unnecessary.

[Zindaras]

Woah, I missed an entire page.

Cessy, the deal was for voting Thesp. It did not include me following your vote to the end of the earth, or, more precisely, AndrewS. While what AndrewS did was stupid and very unnecessary, I really do doubt that he's the correct lynch for today. I most certainly do not feel that it's enough to warrant a quicklynch on Page 4, as my vote would be putting him at Lynch-1.

[Zindaras]

unvote; vote: IH

. Watching Adele and Mgm; I'm not really focused on IH in particular.

I don't know if I'd believe Andrew if I came in to see his reaction before anyone else posted. I do know that I

really

dislike the responses to him. I thought the original vote was a null tell. Where's the WIFOM? Just what are you people arguing?

Essentially, his defense is "I wouldn't do this as scum, because that'd be stupid."

That's your WIFOM right there.

I've seen more than my fair share of these arguments, and more often than not, lynching people over them hits a townie. I think it is most definitely stupid to lynch Andrew over it, especially at this point in the game.

[Zindaras]

I don't get you, Zindaras.
You agree it's WIFOM, yet you don't think it's lynch-worthy.
I've seen a lot of scum, who attempted something just because scum wouldn't do that so they could use that argument. (I even did it myself over in DragonPhoenix Mafia on the GL)

Yes, but town

also

do it. So it's a null tell, or at most a weak scum tell.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: The above is important because I don't want to lynch someone Page 5 over a weak scumtell (nor, really, to be honest, past Page 5. I still prefer stronger cases).

[Zindaras]

The fact that Glork used exclamation points should've been enough to tip everyone off that he was joking.

[Zindaras]

Who here thinks I was *actually* serious about my No-Lynch suggestion?

You were totally serious man!!! Don't try to deny it now!!!!

Unvote, Vote: Gkrlo

for backtracking!!!!!!!

Um, IH? Despite it containing Ether, this

is

an invitational.

We really do <3 you.

We know what we're doing (or in my case, we know who to bribe and/or blackmail and/or

sleep with

).

O_o

[Zindaras]

I don't get you, Zindaras.
You agree it's WIFOM, yet you don't think it's lynch-worthy.
I've seen a lot of scum, who attempted something just because scum wouldn't do that so they could use that argument. (I even did it myself over in DragonPhoenix Mafia on the GL)

If you're not going to vote someone for WIFOM, then do you have a better idea? The only reason I'm not voting yet is because I don't like fast lynches. But I'm all ready to pile up.

Unvote:Cogito Ergo Sum

I don't think WIFOM is a very strong scumtell, no. It's a scumtell, but it's not a strong one.

Okay, reread, summing up gut feelings:

-voidybuns is scum. Why are we not voting her?
-Ether's scummy.
-Adele's odd, but this is my first or second game with her, so I can't say anything about her alignment.
-I don't like Post 81-83.
-Mgm's probably town.
-I really don't like Post 109-111. And 112, too.
-CDB's prolly town.
-Mgm is still town.
-Patsy's not posting too much, but Post 174 rocks.

why is scumvoid still alive?

why didn't i get to drop the mjonlir?

will i ever get to?

all this, and more to be answered

-Have I mentioned that Fritz is totally awesome?
-I'm having a hard time reading Thesp.
-AndrewS has to get his brain together, cuz he ain't makin' no sense.
-Post 192. I had to read this one twice. Zindie no like.
-Ether's less scummy later on.

Anyway, to quickly sum it all up:

Adele: I haven't played in enough games with her to be able to read her well, but I think she's town, at the moment. The whole LaL thing and such looks pretty townish to me.

AndrewS: Shouldn't have done what he did. Hasn't been playing very well this game, regardless of his alignment.

ChannelDelibird: Gut's saying town, but not a sufficient read.

Cogito Ergo Sum: How can a fellow Dutchie be scum?

Ether: Scummy at first, less scummy later. Jury's out on her.

Fritzler: Obvobv town.

Glork: Way too bandwagonish. He's playing one of his "crazy" games, with all kinds of random stuff. However, odd bandwagoning isn't usually part of that. Has been on both of the 3-post 3-vote bandwagons I really didn't like.

IH: I haven't liked one post from him so far. That lynch-3 vote on AndrewS looks horrible, too.

MgM: He's Dutch. How can he possibly be scum?

MrBuddyLee: Really needs to post more. I disagree with, well, pretty much half of what he's saying in his analysis post, and I disagree with the rest, which isn't very useful.

Nightfall: Typical Nightfall-lurker.

Patrick: Needs to post more. What he's posted makes sense.

spectrumvoid: Why is she still alive? She's sooo obviously scum.

Thesp: I can't read the bugger for the life of me.

[Zindaras]

I find it curious that you would make a point of saying this about me in particular. Alot of ppl have posted less than me, you included.

If you take a look at your posts, you'll notice that most of them are one-liners.

[Zindaras]

Some of them are, I just found it strange that you picked me out when that is true of most ppl (including you again).

One word: Vengeful.

I don't think I'll ever be able to trust you again. *sad*

Zindaras: it's pretty easy to get a read on Thesp. Just follow him blindly. If the town's losing, he's probably scum. If you just won the game, well, then he's probably town.

Totally awesome idea.

Also, wanna switch votes to scumvoid? It'll be fun.

[Zindaras]

You too Zindybuns.

Hmm?

[Zindaras]

*Posted elsewhere*

Look, deary, that's how I'll always characterize you. You wouldn't be playing this game if you sucked. I'm not suspicious of you for the way you post.

I still wuv you. <3

[Zindaras]

Glork: Way too bandwagonish. He's playing one of his "crazy" games, with all kinds of random stuff. However, odd bandwagoning isn't usually part of that. Has been on both of the 3-post 3-vote bandwagons I really didn't like.

viewtopic.php?t=3684&userposts=1333

Bandwagoning isn't something where you can simply point to one other game and say "Here, I did it there, too!" It's pretty gosh-darn scummy in my book, and I'm not going to let that tell go.

unvote, vote: spectrumvoid.

You're avoiding saying anything noteworthy. Then again, neither was Zindy til someone noticed.

I disagree with the assertion that I was saying nothing noteworthy. My stance on the major issues (see: AndrewS-wagon) was clear.

Also, I thought I was voting scumvoid. But, apparently, I'm not.

Unvote, Vote: scumvoid

.

[Zindaras]

Also, yes, I saw that this 'wagon is getting one of those 3-posts-3-votes things which I said I didn't in that analysis post.

Well, screw it. Not every 'wagon is scummy.

[Zindaras]

Zindie. If anybody knows how absurd I can behave, it's you. I'm curious to know why you're choosing to attack my play in this game, when you've pretty much ignored it in games past.

Yes. Look, I simply don't like it whenever people are on every wagon in the entire game, thankyouverymuch. I'd like to point out that I was not in Snakes on a Plane Mafia, so I did not have the opportunity to wonder at your alignment there. And it's an ongoing game, too. Offhand, I can't remember any other games where you've done it.

Also, I feel that it conflicts with other things you've done so far in the game. I wouldn't expect Crazy Glork to attack Cessy and me over our little deal.

I also love your "this is scummy except when I do it" attitude. At least you had the testicular fortitude to point out your own hypocrisy.

No, you see, it's a "this is scummy except this wagon" attitude.

[Zindaras]

The town's bandwagoning based on a random number that Glork pulled up? Admittedly, SV looks somewhat scummy anyway, but I'm not convinced that she's the right lynch just let. Let me reread and post later today...

Nono, I'm 'wagoning because I think she's scum and my vote should already have been on her but I forgot.

Also, Glork originally left WotC because he kept getting killed/investigated N0.

He should totally come back now, though. That's pretty much out of the metagame and we usually start on Days, too.

[Zindaras]

Voidybuns is still a girl.

But if I move my vote off her, she may make endgame, and we all know what happens when voidybuns makes endgame. *sad*

I'm all for her telling us who she's going to vig, though. Also, am I mistaken or could there be Serial Killers in this game?

Unvote

[Zindaras]

I'm all for her telling us who she's going to vig, though. Also, am I mistaken or could there be Serial Killers in this game?

You are, of course, mistaken.

*sighs*

It really was inevitable.

Anyway,

Vote: IH

. I find him the scummiest of people close to a lynch (IH, AndrewS, voidybuns, Mgm). I could be wrong about Andrew, but I don't think so.

[Zindaras]

IH is getting vigged, Zindy, so why don't you hop on over to the AndrewSwagon.

This is not a good argument to vote Andrew. He's not dead yet, so he can be voted for. Voidybuns can always pick a different target.

[Zindaras]

If I'm reading the thread correctly, there are over two days left until the deadline. To call it anti-town because a vig announced that IH was her target next night is bull.

[Zindaras]

I feel that the AndrewS lynch will not lead to the death of scum, so I will vote whatever other lynch I feel is more likely to lead to scum death I wish. I do not doubt that voidybuns has a backup target. To simply state that we cannot vote someone who is announced as vig target for next night is bull.

[Zindaras]

Bah.

I'll see if I can glean something from the AndrewS-wagon.

[Zindaras]

Flaked off due to some real-life issues, among others. I don't lurk on purpose.

I've been catching up to most of my games, and this one is at the top of the list now.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Why am I scum, Thesp?

[Zindaras]

Oh, okay, I can't really argue against that. Any specific posts?

[Zindaras]

I will post content within the next 24 hours.

If not, you should hit me in the face.

[Zindaras]

Upon a reread, I find myself agreeing with Glork and, even more, MBL. Thesp is setting off alarm-bells in my head, and so is Adele.

I don't agree with the Glorkwagon. I could be wrong, but Glork isn't setting off any alarm-bells with his play so far D2. In fact, I'd expect Town-Glork to up his game after a bad Day 1. I agree with MBL's observation that Thesp doesn't really seem to be trying to catch scum.

CDB seems townish, but I've never gotten a scum-read from him, ever. Then again, I can't remember him being scum, ever, either.

I seriously don't like the way Thesp's playing. I don't feel he's contributing to the game.

I'll reread the whole game for specifics later today and hope to build a stronger case against Thesp/Adele, who are my current suspicions.

[Zindaras]

Post 563.

I think that's a reasonable run-down of the way I feel at the moment.

[Zindaras]

A cursory re-read of Thesp's posts in isolation suggests that most of his posts were "AndrewS is scum. Let's lynch him."

Bed now, PbpA tomorrow.

[Zindaras]

Oh, wow, I somehow completely missed that post.

UnFoS

, I guess...

Teehee.

*points and laughs*

[Zindaras]

Wooo, Thesp PbPA!

Post 0 (starting with zero because that's what the view all post function starts with):
AndrewS vote. Glork is apparently pro-town.

Post 1:
Filler/joke.

Post 2:
Apparently, the last time an experienced player suggested No Lynch with Thesp in the neighbourhood of Thesp, he was scum. Amusingly enough, this is obviously a logical fallacy. You can't simply state "Last time I was right, so I'm right this time as well". If you want to use the argument "Experience+Suggesting No Lynch-->Scum" pointing to the last time someone experienced suggested a no lynch, you have to look at multiple times. Given Thesp's experience, I have no doubt that he has seen it happen before.

Post 3:
Apparently, CDB is now AndrewS's scumbuddy.

I'm not convinced by that explanation. I also feel that if you feel you learned something from it, telling the town who you feel made a scummy reaction to your post would help your position (if it's justified, of course).

FoS: AndrewS

That's the relevant quote.

Amusingly enough, two others, Cessy and I, FoSed AndrewS and are, apparently, not attempting to distance ourselves from our scumbuddy.

Post 4:
He suggests that scum is more likely to suggest a No Lynch. In my experience, even with experienced players, players who suggest No Lynch are more likely to be town than scum, simply because it attracts so much flak.

Post 5:
Attacking AndrewS for discrediting people who are voting him. Amusingly enough, with AndrewS dead and town, his argument actually stands. Also stating again that CDB is scum.

Post 6:
Filler.

Post 7:
As AndrewS points out in the post afterwards, this is actually not even what he suggested. AndrewS suggested that it is a good idea to look at the bandwagon to look at scum, which it is. Townies have legitimate reasons to vote town, but scum just wants to see town die. There will, in fact, be a difference between a town-on-town vote and a scum-on-town vote.

Post 8:
First part is a strawman, taking AndrewS's example instead of the entire bit of logic.

Post 9:
Random assertion. I don't believe it holds up to a quantitative analysis.

Post 10:
Move on.

Post 11:
Move on.

Post 12:
Accusing Nightfall of deflecting the AndrewS lynch...

Post 13:
I'd like to point out how this is already setting up Ether for a next lynch with AndrewS-town.

Post 14:
Now MBL is scum too. Again, like with CDB, no real explanation.

Post 15:
Filler.

Post 16:
Move on.

Post 17:
Filler, move on.

Post 18:
The "day's going on for too long post". Amusingly enough, this is one of the things scum is more likely to say than town.

Post 19:
Sets himself up to vote spectrumvoid later on.

Post 20:
More pushing for AndrewS lynch.

Post 21:
Question to AndrewS, move on.

Post 22:
More debating with AndrewS.

Post 23:
Filler, move on.

Post 24:
More filler, move on.

Post 25:
Answer to a question from Glork.

Post 26:
Wow, we shouldn't be voting spectrumvoid. What a surprise.

Post 27:
That's some messed-up theory.

Post 28:
Thesp is uncertain about Mgm.

Post 29:
I feel that I have already rebutted this argument. I feel that Thesp is trying to coerce me into voting AndrewS there by saying that not voting AndrewS is the same as voting nobody.

Post 30:
*gasp* Thesp was wrong!

Post 31:
*gasp* Pro-town Thesp can be wrong!

Post 32:
Argument. Move on.

Post 33:
Response: the day shouldn't have ended in an AndrewS lynch. 'Nuff said.

Post 34:
Doesn't like ChannelDelibird, MrBuddyLee, Nightfall and Zindaras. Amusingly enough, his "case" on the first three, or whatever I can glean from his earlier posts, seems mostly built on the assertion that AndrewS is scum, which he wasn't. His last one is a "vibe".

Post 35:
He apparently feels there isn't much on anyone.

Post 36:
Response to MBL.

Post 37:
Response to CES.

Post 38:
Response to MBL.

Post 39:
Woe is me! We do finally get to know why he thinks CDB is scum, though.

Thesp's playing either really sucky or he's just plain scum. Pretty much everything he's said Day 1 was built on "AndrewS is scum". He hasn't really said anything Day 2.

[Zindaras]

Adele, the reason I put you in was mostly gut. I think I also said that I needed to do a PbPA on you as well.

[Zindaras]

CDB, could you link me to a game you played as scum? Preferably one where you played well.

[Zindaras]

To vote Thesp?

Uhh, maybe later, I want to reread for Adele first.

[Zindaras]

I still think your silence on D1 while a townie was being run up (which you'd put your vote on early, then did not detract from nor push for) is notable, and I'm surprised no one else is jumping on it.

I doubt that CDB is the only one who was silent Day One.

[Zindaras]

So I started making a PbPA on Adele, but around Post 10 my gut feeling that she was scum had already disappeared.

[Zindaras]

I haven't seen Ether at all for a while now, not even on AIM. She's probably caught up on something.

[Zindaras]

Ether's clearly pro-town. Just read her posts in isolation.

[Zindaras]

Vote: Thesp

Lynch-2.

[Zindaras]

Why is Mgm the play, Fritz? (assuming that you think Mgm is the play, which it does look like)

[Zindaras]

Awwwwww. *huggles Adele*

I still wuv you.

[Zindaras]

I wuv you too, Glorkybuns! *huggles*

To be honest, I've been thinking a while about changing my vote to Mgm. This may happen later on. Could anyone restate the case against Mgm or tell me where to find it?

[Zindaras]

In response to the earlier question (did I answer it yet?): My thing on Mgm is mostly a gut feeling.

[Zindaras]

Unvote

I now officially hate the difficulty of finding scum in this game.

[Zindaras]

Glork and MBL are town. Ether and Adele give me town vibes. Thesp is only giving off minor vibes.

I'm going to take a look at Mgm now.

[Zindaras]

I've got a browser on view all posts by Mgm at home and I've started doing some analyzing on it, but I'm at uni now so I won't be able to finish it.

Instead, I'd like to ask everyone their opinions on Adele, Mgm and Thesp.

[Zindaras]

Mgm comes in pretty late. He asks me why I'm not voting AndrewS even though he WIFOM'd. He defends AndrewS-wagoners but doesn't vote himself. Votes Glork, wants SV to claim, fuels the AndrewS-wagon. Suggests SK. Pushes the AndrewS-wagon. Thinks IH-vig is reasonable because most of the town agrees with it (Note that he never actually says anything about IH except that he "needs to take a look at his posts."). 419 looks a bit odd to me. There's a possible Patrick-defense in Post 457. Votes Glork in an OMGUSsy fashion. Wants AndrewS to claim as well, says he didn't fish for SV to claim. Post 481 looks really contrived to me. FoSes Fritz over Nightfall's PbPA. Votes Thesp because his Glorkvote isn't going anywhere.

Overall, I don't really like his posts, when I look at them in isolation. Some odd posts, some scummy posts. I think it's enough to

Vote: Mgm

.

I am, however, beginning to consider the case that Patrick + one of Adele/MGM is scum and that Thesp + the other of Adele/MGM is town.

/agree.

I still want Zindaras to be more active -- lurking is something that I rarely see him do, and it could be an indiation that he's scum. (As far as I know, he has been active and has shown up pro-town in prior games that I've played with him. My memory may fail me on this point, though.)

Lurking's not a scumtell for me, it's mainly a busytell. I hate lurking and wouldn't even want to win by doing it.

[Zindaras]

I again took a look at Adele's posts in isolation, and I still think she's town.

[Zindaras]

How sure are you about your statements that Thesp is scum and Mgm is town?

[Zindaras]

70% and 90%, I'd say. (I'm not really more sure about Mgm being town, but the odds of someone being town tends to be higher, because we have more town than scum.

Why?

I think you're pretty full of it Zindaras. Glork has claimed that I'm connected to Adele, no reasons provided yet. You're claiming that Adele is town. So I'm assuming Mgm is the person you're connecting me to. I'd like you to explain this, preferably with something other than gut. I think it's pretty obvious that mgm and I are not scum together.

Touchy, aren't we?

Your attack on Mgm says nothing. I think you're scummy, and I think Mgm is scummy, and it's pretty stupid to say "I'm attacking Mgm and doing this and that so I can't possibly be scum with him!"

I am not connecting you to him, I'm saying you're both scum. I'm not saying either of you is scum because the other is scum.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Why as in "Why so certain?"

[Zindaras]

I think you've been really Omgussy and overaggressive regarding people attacking you (specifically me).

[Zindaras]

>.<

Unvote, Vote: Thesp

Need lynch. Believe Adele's claim. Should've gone with my gut after all. A doc's still possible, but he just wouldn't have protected voidybuns last night.

[Zindaras]

I think I'd be happy lynching Zindaras.

And your mighty reasoning for that is?

[Zindaras]

There's a godfather in this game and we know it? Damn, I just know I should've read this all more carefully.

Glork, I do do things like I did with Cessy. For one, because it's funny. For two, because it incites reactions.

Post 104...yeah, I probably should've asserted that. You'll note that when I finally get aronund to rereading the game and I post a big post, that I do actually point out the three-posts-three-vote wagon on AndrewS.

What I also find odd is that you did a lot of 'wagoning Day 1, and I remember you saying that you wanted to get reactions and stuff, but I don't see that in your little analysis.

[Zindaras]

Post 224, Zindie's summary post. SV scum, Ether Scummy but then less scummy later on, blahblah... but Zindaras doesn't substantiate these suspicions or votes of support very well. He even calls CES and MGM town based on being Dutch, which shows a

distinct

lack of interest. MGM had picked up several votes, and CES had a short mini-wagon and some mild suspicions. Zindaras, can you go back and pick out some of the reasons you had these early-ish impressions? I find your contributions disturbingly lacking

I felt Mgm and Cessy were town mainly based on interactions I had with them. Cessy was being typical-Cessy. He never actually pressured me into voting AndrewS, which I would've expected if he were scum. Mgm, well, I felt that his calling out of Cessy for being talkative and his questioning of my reaction to AndrewS were both town-tells. I made that list of things while rereading the thread. So somewhere between Post 83 and Post 109, Mgm posted a post which made me go "Town!"

As for Ether, Post 170 was the one that made me think she was less scummy. She seemed hesitant to go and vote AndrewS. The earlier reasons why I felt she was scummy was Post 65. Really quick to vote AndrewS, add a joke to make it look better.

Post 225, Patrick points out that Zindie's "Patrick needs to post more" stance is both hypocritical and flat-out

incorrect.

That's bull. A statement like that can never be incorrect. I feel that Patrick should post more, so I post that. That you disagree with it doesn't make it incorrect.

Post 278 by Zindie doesn't make me any happier. We know that you think SV is scum. You've said it multiple times. Yet, to my knowledge, you NEVER stated

WHY

you thought SV was scum. Go back and look at her early posts and explain to me WHY you thought she was scum back then.

I thought Post 111 was a scumtell. Non-contribution, flip-flop on AndrewS. That's what I had on her. I know it isn't a lot, but I didn't feel the AndrewS-lynch at all.

360, Zindie laments not killing SV for dumb/spammy reasons (this is beginning to annoy me, Zinds)

I joke, I prank, I jest. That's who I am.

asks if there can be SKs. Combine with his recent "wait, there's a GF?" post, and he is either not paying any attention to the setup, or he is doing a very good job of pretending not to pay attention.

A null-tell it is.

Zinde onto IH in 396. Apparently he doesn't notice that IH is slated to be vigged. Not a helpful post at all. He's lazy and not paying attention.

I most definitely did know that IH was slated to be vigged. But I do not see the relevance of that, just as I didn't see the relevance of that back then. If I feel that IH is the correct lynch, or at least the better lynch than AndrewS, I will vote him regardless of who voidybuns wants to kill. Voidybuns can easily change her target if IH is lynched, it's not like she was a delayed vig or something.

I like how you still suck at reading me, Glrok.

*laughs*

I wanted to post that!

[Zindaras]

I like Fritz. Now and then, I go and play like Fritz to see how people react to it.

[Zindaras]

This is factually wrong:

CES makes it -2 and tells Zindie to join him. This is something I *do* find a bit alarming.

Please don't lie to me, Zindie. I just read every post in the first 17.5 pages of the game. I know

exactly

what "Cessy" did or did not do.

That's not pressure. He says "Zindie, with me!"

If I say "Glork, vote yourself", will you feel pressured? No, you won't. It starts becoming pressure when you threaten to vote or vig someone.

I know Patrick already addressed this, but that is certainly not enough to go pushing a wagon that was founded on nothing and fueled by a

random, die-roll

vote.

At that point, I felt that it was the best case. Better than cases against anyone else. Therefore, I voted her.

A cop-out post if ever I saw one.

Cop-out?

[Zindaras]

Glork, it would be better if you would look at my posts before deciding I'm scum.

More tomorrow, I need sleep now.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Something quick to point out: you, funnily enough, link to my post saying that Ether is pro-town, but you do not link to my post saying that Adele is pro-town, even though they were both after reading posts in isolation.

[Zindaras]

Excuse me? What do you mean "if I would look at your posts." I've looked at every post you have made up through Page 29, and I have concluded that up to this point, I think you are scum. I don't understand what you're talking about.

No, I'm saying that you decided I was scum before making that analysis.

537, Glork notes that there is a ton of cross-suspicion bewteen himself and his five suspects. I hadn't thought of this earlier, but that might indicate that scums are sitting back and letting us rip each other apart. Definitely 1-2 scums in this group of six. More likely 1, rather than 2, though, I think. Glork also notes that Patrick, Zindaras, and Nightfall are being lazy/lurky... (Interesting that CDB called two of these three pro-town, eh?)

Interesting that if I call Patsy out, saying he has to post more, I'm being flat-out incorrect, but if you do it, it's all right.

563, Zindaras agrees with Glork/MBL, finds Thesp/Adele suspicious. Delicious fuel-the-fire goodness? Who knows...

This is a good example of you deciding I was scum before actually reading the thread. Probably, if I had posted suspicions against other people, I would've been trying to get suspicion off my scumbuddies or trying to look more pro-town later by setting my buddies up for a lynch now. And if I hadn't posted at all, I would've been lying low.

Zindaras makes a PBPA of Thesp in 584, keeps pushing the "lynch Thesp" theme.

Another good example. Who did, again, push the "Lynch AndrewS" theme Day 1? Who built all his opinions on the fact that AndrewS was scum? Hey, wouldn't that be Thesp?

If you think I am scum for pushing the lynch of "pro-town" Thesp, then you should find Thesp scummy for pushing the lynch of pro-town AndrewS.

Interestingly enough, Zindie commits one of my favorite scumtells in 641, protecting CDB. Thesp accuses CDB of being lurkerscum. Zindie replies by wanting to look at other lurkers, too. Another scary post which is

very

reminiscent of a post in a past game. In this post in Kingmaker1, PJscum basically said "yes, Ameliaslay [scumbag] is lurking, but so are Chamber [town] and Fritzler [town]!" Basically, it's a protection ploy to get people away from your scumbuddy and to try to look elsewhere.

Interestingly enough, Thesp committed one of my favourite scumtells by attacking CdB and no one else over being lurking scum. You see, if Player A attacks Player B over exhibiting Behaviour X, but Player C also exhibits Behaviour X, then Player A could easily be scum with Player C.

Zindie to Thesp (lynch -2) in 671.

I find it amusing that when I put someone at Lynch-2, it is worth noting, but you don't note any Lynch-2 or even Lynch-1 votes.

This is because I have only read through Page 29, and you made that post on Page 32. For the love of God, Zindie,

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON.

Post 642 says hi.

[Zindaras]

Sometimes I hate myself.

Reply within 24 hours.

[Zindaras]

No. If I held "whenever somebody pushes a lynch on a pro-town player," I'd want to lynch like eight of the other ten players right now (though incidentally, there are more players than usual that I find to be scummy). The differences come in the manner, timing, and reasoning of a push on a pro-town player. You're intentionally oversimplifying this to try to make a point... and it's not working.

So you believe that making a PbPA and actually bothering to re-read Thesp's posts (which I don't believe is something common among the Thesp-voters) is scummier than just voting someone and insisting he is scum throughout the day?

642 is a completely neutral statement. Saying that your gut feeling had gone away does not equate to saying that you think somebody is pro-town. Your "I read Adele in isolation and think she is pro-town" statement came in 788. Though I now realize that you meant to call her pro-town in 642, you were far too ambiguous in that post. At any rate, it seems to be a moot point now.

Saying you don't think someone is scum does equal saying someone is pro-town.

[Zindaras]

No, now you're not only twisting my argument, but falsely labeling the attacks of Thesp's other attackers. Several player made arguments with more logical content. But to halfway answer your question: Sometimes. Re-reading a player's posts does not make you less likely to be scum when you make your argument. It just means you're trying harder. Like I said, there were other reasons -- timing, mannerisms -- which contribute to my sentiment. The fact that you made an entire PBPA which basically amounted to "let me label all of Thesp's good posts as "Argument." or "Response to X" and let me focus on what I can drag out that's scummy" without supplementing that attack with a vote until a week later when you could wagon Thesp to Lynch -2 sends up red flags.

As I said in the post, Thesp was sucky or scum (something he himself agreed with). As I said in Post 632, I wanted to reread for Adele (the alternative) before voting Thesp (and later Ether, another raised alternative). After I reread their posts, I cast my vote for Thesp. I felt he was narrow-minded in his attacks on AndrewS and CDB.

I think we may be looking at a Glork one-two here. Link a townie to a buddy, 'wagon your buddy, then lynch the townie the next day.

I can definitely see Glork as a godfather.

[Zindaras]

Now that there seems to be a general consensus that ChannelDelibird is scum (please correct me if I am incorrect in this perception), would you characterize my focus on CDB the same?

Being narrow-minded on the right person (which is to be determined later, once we lynch him) does not change anything about being narrow-minded.

However, it does change my opinion about you, obviously.

...actually, just went back and re-read your latest posts. You've

ignored

the ChannelDelibird hullabaloo, including counter-claim discussion.

FOS: Zindaras.

"I think we're looking at a Glork one-two" does, in fact, say anything about CDB. Patrick is correct in saying that. And I don't see how discussing possible counter-claims helps us in any way. We should simply ignore the possibility of a counter-claim, since even talking about it is going to give stuff away if he's lying.

Now what interests me, Zindie, is why you choose to say you see me as a

Godfather

, as opposed to being a

scumbag

in general. Mind explaining that one?

Eh, who proposed it? I thought it was MBL. You went erratic, all over the map, Day One. Great way to get the Cop to investigate you. That's why I characterized you as more likely to be a godfather role.

[Zindaras]

In the meantime, I'm just going to leave you with a quote from another player, in another game, who *does* recognize that it's just a random playstyle I slide into:

I know why you do it and I perfectly understand it, as I do it myself. The rationale doesn't have to be explained.

Other than Space Monkeys (which is unusual because I knew that the townies thought they were scum and were more likely to be erratic, too), I can't think of a single time that crazyerraticD1glork has been scum. I

can

, however, name at least half a dozen games when crazyerraticD1glork has been town.
Sesame Street, Cultural Revolution, KM2, Snakes on a Plane, Newbie 254, Band Mafia, CSER.

The important thing to note here is that there was a specific reason to be crazy erratic in Space Monkeys. If you are the godfather, there is a specific reason to be crazy erratic in this game as well. That is why I characterized you as the godfather. If the real godfather dies, you're town in my book.

As an aside, I really wouldn't do that in a Newbie game.

In posts before that, I don't really see you mentioning CDB. Now you've come in with the assumption that he is scum, seemingly automatically. What led to this? Have you read his posts and found something damning?

For one, I feel that there is a link between Glrok and CDB. For two, I don't like his claim. He puts pretty much all of his defense in that claim.

If I remember right, MBL actually suggested this about Thesp.

Well, as I said, it works for Glork as well.

[Zindaras]

The quote is truthful. If my memory serves me well, it's MBL and he posted it in this game, but I could be wrong on that one.

Alright, I

definitely

want this one explained in great detail. Quotes! Post numbers! More betterer reasoning! The masses demand it!

You vote Thesp for a while, say "CDB is scummy". Then, the next day, you go and focus a lot on CDB, as if you waited if Thesp was lynched before attacking him.

But I guess that would imply a Glork-Thesp link...and there kind of is a reason because you don't even say it until your reread.

*scratches head*

I hate being wrong, but I'm afraid I may have to eat my words on this one.

[Zindaras]

What is it?

[Zindaras]

Well, I know I read it, that's it. Also, Mgm, what are you doing here? We're playing Romania!

[Zindaras]

I apologize profusely for my inactivity. I had a busy week and I have trouble charging up for this game.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: As far as the current developments go, I can't say I feel the CDB-hammer was a mistake.

[Zindaras]

No way in hell, Glork.

[Zindaras]

Glork, I've had an all-around drop in activity.

Which I look forward to correcting.

[Zindaras]

I am currently working on an analysis, the first part of which will be posted within a couple of hours. If you have any specific questions you wish to ask me, specific posts or players you wish for me to analyze, please post them as soon as possible.

[Zindaras]

Analysis, starting from the beginning. This may take a while to finish, as I am in a rather busy time. I'll pay specific attention to CDB here.

We start off with a semi-interesting random-voting stage. There is a Thespwagon. Cessy attempts to convince Glork to vote Thesp as well, but Glork doesn't, saying Thesp is "obv pro-town". Glork is unusually defensive of Thesp, FoSing Fritzler. Cessy and I strike a deal to vote Thesp/voidybuns. MBL joins Glork and Thesp. Patrick says Glork usually busses his scumbuddies and not defend them.

CDB

now jumps on the CES-wagon. Glork remains defensive of Thesp, voting Cessy and FoSing Patrick and me.

AndrewS's Post 45 ends the random-voting stage. While it was reasonably short, I do believe that it is interesting. Funnily, though we are a lot further into the game, some things have stayed the same. Glork is out to get me, Cessy is out to get Thesp. I don't really think this says a lot, but it's funny enough to mention. I think the most important post here is Post 36, by CDB. Day One behaviour, especially early on, is the most "pure". I think CDB's Cessyvote is definitely a point in favour of Cessy.

Post 45 is probably the post that defines Day One. For that reason, I shall list all reactions to the post, in chronological order.

Post 46 (Cessy): Just a FoS.
Post 47 (Patrick): Calls it a "mysterious suggestion", saying that the game will get underway as all other games will.
Post 48 (Zindaras): A FoS and calling it a weird suggestion.
Post 49 (AndrewS): In comes the Unvote, with a small explanation that we weren't getting anywhere.
Post 50 (Adele): In hops Adele (Town) with a vote for AndrewS, saying a vote for No Lynch is a vote for scum power.
Post 52 (MBL): Chosen not because it is a reaction, but because it is, to be honest, not a reaction at all. Saying Patrick's town, Glork's scum. The vote comes in 54.
Post 53 (voidybuns): Asking AndrewS if he's a newbie.
Post 55 (Patrick): Says he doesn't think AndrewS's suggestion makes it more likely he's scum.
Post 57 (voidybuns): Doesn't bother with the whole "No Lynch is bad" speech and votes Glork instead.
Post 59 (Thesp): Insists his vote on AndrewS is justified.
Post 65 (Ether): Votes AndrewS, saying it's odd that AndrewS didn't expect FoSes.
Post 66 (Fritzler): AndrewS isn't the play.
Post 72 (Glork): Says AndrewS is looking like a great alternative.
Post 73 (

CDB

): FoS, not convinced by the explanation.

I'm afraid the reactions don't end there, but my time does. The three reactions I find worth pointing out most are the ones by Patrick, MBL and Glork. Patrick because I really like it and think it's a towntell, MBL and Glork because they both post without actually giving their opinions on the AndrewS-issue. I find that scummy.

More later.

[Zindaras]

I'm having such a horrible week.

I'll review pre-deadline.

[Zindaras]

I apologize profusely.

Good luck.

[Zindaras]

Hi. I don't think Stoofer told you, but I'm backing up while Stoofy is gone. I'll be doing vote counts and I'll close the thread if you lynch someone.

[Zindaras]

I'm embarrassed.

I think that's the only thing I've gotten out of this game.

[Zindaras]

Well, if you'd take me back after this disgrace, I'd love to try to make up for it.

As an aside, I loved the way Mgm played out the last two days.