Mini 392: Jungle Republic - Game over!

[Kelly Chen]

Day 4

In the spirit of consensus, the Communist offers the Republic a holiday gift of no abductions.

no one - abducted Night 3

Today, less than half of you are loyal to the Republic, but 4/7 of you wish to expel an Islamist.

Note:

If the next player lost is not an Islamist, the Islamists will have won the game.

With 7 alive, it is 4 to lynch!

[sprontalic]

Looks like the commie decided to not take the risk.

Since we're at lylo, we should be careful here.

I've had suspicious feelings towards Cadre from the start, though not much from Yosarian2, but since many found him suspicious, it's probably not unreasonable to say he's scum. I'm thinking that he's not commie though, so I'm willing to tip that he's an islamist.

I'm thinking the TSQ is the remaining commie. I can't shake the feeling that the timely quick lynch of SL right after my post against Lyingbrian in day 1 and the aggressive assault on lyinbrian in day two isn't as coincidental as it looks. It's not inconceivable that TSQ would be willing to bus Lyingbrian when a clear case has been set against him. Also TSQ is an experienced player, I can't see why he's willing to let the porr logic against SL slide by and in fact let the lynch go through unhindered.

Preemptive defense

: TSQ, I know you said SL must be quicklynched at all time, but as you said it's neither a scum tell or town tell. Well gathering the information together I think it's a scumtell.

I'm tip that Kingpin and Zindaras are townies. I'm getting townie vibes from both of them so based on hunch I'm going to go with Norinel and Lucresia as the other two islamists.

[Norinel]

Sorry, things have been a mess for me the last few days, and I'm on vacation again starting Friday, but I'll try to finish my reread soon and post something of substance today.

[KingPin]

A couple of things.

FOS: Sprontalic and TSQ

I have had TSQ pegged as being scum since D1 and his quick lynch. Yesterday the town screwed up. I think it has something to do with the Islamists trying to railroad the town.

Spron: Before you voted for Germy, did you bother to read the thread and figure out who may have actually advocated for the seer to claim?

Conclusion: Seer should counterclaim if lying brian is not it. If I do not see a counter claim, I will assume lying brian is seer.

The reason this is important is because it leads me to believe that the Islamists were already setting up their endgame strategy. A quick railroading of a townie would put them in a position to win if Commie scum nightkills an innocent.

I found TSQ suspicious from D1. I have stated those reasons previously. I explained yesterday that it was important to lynch scum, of either faction. Leading the charge on Germy, was TSQ. Of course, a majority of you were involved in that. Which leaves us with a lynch or lose situation. We must lynch an Islamist today.

Which leads me to TSQ. TSQ ignored the writing on the wall, while basically telling Nai that he needed to counter-claim, though it was clear that Nai was the Seer. I can think of a couple of reasons that this drew my attention. 1. TSQ wanted the Seer gone, shows signs of Commie Scum. 2. Wanted to be absolutely certain that his nightkill was the Seer, signs of Commie Scum. 3. TSQ used the same “writing on the wall” to all but claim he was the last Commie Scum.

germy, even if

I AM

a communist, you realize that town has to lynch islamist today, right?

(bold added for emphasis)

Conclusion: TSQ is the last Communist.

TSQ was wrong in his assessment that and Islamist needed to be lynched yesterday, see previous statements by myself and others. Instead sheep followed suit and voted germy.

Vote Count
4 - germy (Yosarian2, Thestatusquo, sprontalic, Zindaras)
1 - Yosarian2 (germy)

not voting: KingPin, Norinel, Lucresia

Sheep this late in the game are usually trying for a scum win. Additionally, A wagon this fast at this stage of the game, seems to indicate quick acting scum.

I am betting that three of the four people on that wagon are scum. Zin, gives me the most town vibes. TSQ, I think is Commie and the other two, IMO are Islamists. I have no real scum feel from either Nori or Luc.

To round out my

FOS: Zindaras and Yosarian2

for being sheep this late in the game.

[Zindaras]

So I give you the most town vibes and you FoS me?

That's odd.

I was no sheep yesterday. I made my case against germy. I stated it quite clearly.

[Thestatusquo]

A couple of things.

FOS: Sprontalic and TSQ

I have had TSQ pegged as being scum since D1 and his quick lynch. Yesterday the town screwed up. I think it has something to do with the Islamists trying to railroad the town.

No, might as well claim. I am a plain republican, your read is off, but I hardly think it matters. The islamists have won this game.

Spron: Before you voted for Germy, did you bother to read the thread and figure out who may have actually advocated for the seer to claim?

Conclusion: Seer should counterclaim if lying brian is not it. If I do not see a counter claim, I will assume lying brian is seer.

The reason this is important is because it leads me to believe that the Islamists were already setting up their endgame strategy. A quick railroading of a townie would put them in a position to win if Commie scum nightkills an innocent.

I think the islamist strategy (and I think you very well may be one of them) hardly matters. Unless they play in a retarded manner, they will win.

I found TSQ suspicious from D1. I have stated those reasons previously. I explained yesterday that it was important to lynch scum, of either faction. Leading the charge on Germy, was TSQ.

This is again wrong. I was not leading the charge. I was suspicious of germy, the point brought about based on his behavior being opposite of that expected of a townie when faced with LBs claim was very compelling to me, but I certainly was not the one to make it. I do not find it suspicious that people made it, or followed it. You have to reconcile in your mind KP, that sometimes townies make mistakes and do things that are bad for the town, this does not make said things scum tells. Sometimes town does it on purpose as a joke between friends, and as meta choices (the former being the case in the SL lynch.) This again does not make them scum tells. Looking at the intent of the action is how one determines if it's scummy or not.

Of course, a majority of you were involved in that. Which leaves us with a lynch or lose situation. We must lynch an Islamist today.

Which is the same situation as yesterday. I pointed that out, and you naively said we need to kill commie yesterday. That was dumb, because it was obvious the commies would pursue a strat of non killing because killing puts THEM in LOL.

Which leads me to TSQ. TSQ ignored the writing on the wall, while basically telling Nai that he needed to counter-claim, though it was clear that Nai was the Seer. I can think of a couple of reasons that this drew my attention.

Actually, my analysis was pretty succinct. We know this an open setup game. We need to kill a scum today. Our main threat is the islamists. Losing a seer is worth it to out one of the two communists. I still stand by that reasoning. Notice communists are not our threats right now, that is because with 1 member instead of 2, they fear a tie as much as we do, and are essentially on our side for now. I also backed up my positions by showing the mathmatical rundowns of the scenarios.

1. TSQ wanted the Seer gone, shows signs of Commie Scum.

Answered above, that was not my reasoning.

2. Wanted to be absolutely certain that his nightkill was the Seer, signs of Commie Scum.

Actually, if you recall correctly, I suggested a gambit which would commies a disincentive to killing the seer at night. Also, I thought that commies would recognize that with the numbers islamists were a bigger threat to their win conditions.

3. TSQ used the same “writing on the wall” to all but claim he was the last Commie Scum.

germy, even if

I AM

a communist, you realize that town has to lynch islamist today, right?

(bold added for emphasis)

Conclusion: TSQ is the last Communist.

This is again another blatant misstatement. The opperative word in my statement is not 'I AM' It is

IF

. My argument was that even if he thinks that I am the last remaining communist, he still should be pushing in other directions, because I felt, and still do, that an islamist should have been killed.

TSQ was wrong in his assessment that and Islamist needed to be lynched yesterday, see previous statements by myself and others. Instead sheep followed suit and voted germy.

Vote Count
4 - germy (Yosarian2, Thestatusquo, sprontalic, Zindaras)
1 - Yosarian2 (germy)

not voting: KingPin, Norinel, Lucresia

Sheep this late in the game are usually trying for a scum win. Additionally, A wagon this fast at this stage of the game, seems to indicate quick acting scum.

I agree with the sheep thing, but I would also contend that the arguments against germy were valid. I would also (though I doubt it will be believed) like to put out there that I was planning on unvoting germy as the wagon grew, but couldn't because he self voted...A retarded strategy. But I disagree that we needed to be lynching the communists, and the communists have proven my point, as they are forced to play on the towns side right now, as they lose in draw scenarios.

I am betting that three of the four people on that wagon are scum. Zin, gives me the most town vibes. TSQ, I think is Commie and the other two, IMO are Islamists. I have no real scum feel from either Nori or Luc.

I think you are severely missreading this game, or you are in fact scum. The islamic group, in my opinion, would not give scum vibes, because they are pretty much a second town, except that they know each other. I don't know if you've ever played with cults before, but the islamists, to me, seem much more likely to act in that manner than in a traditional scum sense. I believe you have to throw your traditional scumdar out the window with islamists, as it is in their best interest to play as town, only scum hunting for the communists. I would expect then, an islamist, at this point in the game, to focus on throwing a lot of suspicion on someone they thought was a communist, while pretending to search for their own number. This is exactly what you just did

FOS: kingpin

i

[Zindaras]

Personally, I hadn't even thought about the possibility of Commies doing a no hit...

I also disagree with you a bit. I don't think Islamists will play like regular townies. In my experience, Cultists (and your comparison of this to a Cult is quite correct) tend to lay low a lot more than plain ol' townies. Which is also why I suspect chamber got hit Night 1.

Therefore I'm looking at those guys, mainly.

[Thestatusquo]

So you think we ought to be going after lurkers (Oh boy...) please be more explicit about your suspicions.

[Yosarian2]

Looks like the commie decided to not take the risk.

Since we're at lylo, we should be careful here.

I've had suspicious feelings towards Cadre from the start, though not much from Yosarian2, but since many found him suspicious, it's probably not unreasonable to say he's scum. I'm thinking that he's not commie though, so I'm willing to tip that he's an islamist.

...what? You didn't really find me suspicious, but you think others have have found me suspicious, so therefore I'm islamist? That makes no sense at all. I can't imagine that a townie would be that willing to follow the opinion of others in a game where more then half of the people left are scum. On the other hand, an islamist would love to follow good guys into a bad lynch at this point.

fos:sprontalic

as blindly following the lead of others without giving any reasons of your own in this kind of situation is definatly a scum tell.

[Yosarian2]

No, might as well claim. I am a plain republican, your read is off, but I hardly think it matters. The islamists have won this game.

No, they havn't, not yet. If we lynch an islamist today, we've got a decent chance; we'd go into tonight with 1 commie, 3 townies, and 2 islamists, so even worst case scenerio, townie dies tonight, we wouldn't lose right away, and best case scenerio, which is we lynch an islamist and the commie kills a second islamist tonight, then we're actually in pretty good shape.

By the way, this is one of those wierd situations where the last communist might actually claim if put under pressure today, because we can't afford to lynch the communist today; if we lynch the communist, then we lose on the spot.

[Norinel]

The main thing that caught me on the read was Zindaras. He was the second to vote for LyingBrian after Nai's second or third comment his direction, which'd be a good Islamist play if he caught the seer vibes from Nai as an easy anti-Communist direction to lead the town. (And it's easiest for the Islamists to spot the seer and Communists since they can already rule two more people out than any townie can) What I found more interesting afterwards were his repeated calls for people to vote. Day 2, the town was already only 50% pro-town, and every vote even then could be critical.

I also got weird vibes from KingPin and Lucresia, but I couldn't tie them to anything in particular.

And I feel like we might be able to get something from LB's counting everyone's posts in post 106. Calling out lurkers is such an easy thing for scum to do, because it doesn't tie you to any particular position, but LB choosing to do so then might give us a clue about his partner.

And some things from today:

A couple of things.

FOS: Sprontalic and TSQ

I have had TSQ pegged as being scum since D1 and his quick lynch. Yesterday the town screwed up. I think it has something to do with the Islamists trying to railroad the town.

No, might as well claim. I am a plain republican, your read is off, but I hardly think it matters. The islamists have won this game.

I wasn't planning to go for a TSQ lynch at the moment, but that kind of fatalism is so easy to jump on.

And this is also ridiculous:

The islamic group, in my opinion, would not give scum vibes, because they are pretty much a second town, except that they know each other. I don't know if you've ever played with cults before, but the islamists, to me, seem much more likely to act in that manner than in a traditional scum sense. I believe you have to throw your traditional scumdar out the window with islamists, as it is in their best interest to play as town, only scum hunting for the communists.

Just like a mafia, the day game objective of the Islamists is to keep each other from being lynched, just like the mafia. Right now, to win, the Islamists have to force a non-Islamist lynch, just like the mafia would in a 4-3 situation.

Personally, I hadn't even thought about the possibility of Commies doing a no hit...

Then I guess you hadn't read my last post.

[sprontalic]

Spron: Before you voted for Germy, did you bother to read the thread and figure out who may have actually advocated for the seer to claim?

Although germy turned out to be town, I seriously thought he was LB's partner. From day one when they had the half assed exchange and the sudden working together until when LB claimed undeniably showed a link between those two. IMO that's a bigger tell than the person who wanted a seer claim to come out. Besides forcing a seer claim is beneficial to both the islamists and commies (to soak up a nightkill for the former and to protect the last commie for the latter).

Also I don't think TSQ ever led the charge towards germy's lynch. In fact no one did, it was mutually agreed upon.

...what? You didn't really find me suspicious, but you think others have have found me suspicious, so therefore I'm islamist? That makes no sense at all. I can't imagine that a townie would be that willing to follow the opinion of others in a game where more then half of the people left are scum. On the other hand, an islamist would love to follow good guys into a bad lynch at this point.

fos:sprontalic

as blindly following the lead of others without giving any reasons of your own in this kind of situation is definatly a scum tell.

I found Cadre suspicious, and I don't really have strong read on you. As far as I'm concerned that's enough for now.

Actually after a short reread, I'm thinking maybe Yosarian isn't scum. Since he placed the first vote on germy. I'm not exactly sure the first vote of an islamist quick lynch attempt would come from an islamist because they need two extra votes to finish the wagon. The only reason the wagon against germy finished so soon was coz he voted for himself, no one would've anticipated that.

On the other hand, I'm getting scummy vibes from Kingpin because he promised a reread yet never delivered a comment about it. This I find summy because surely it's not hard to reread on a single player, especially the one that is on 4 votes already. I feel that's an attempt at staying well away from the wagon in order to raise the "TSQ + three others on germy's wagon = scum" argument.

[Zindaras]

So you think we ought to be going after lurkers (Oh boy...) please be more explicit about your suspicions.

I think I said this somewhere, but I think

Lucresia

sprontalic/Norinel/Yos is the most likely scumgroup.

[Zindaras]

Actually, scratch that list. I need to do a re-read to get a feeling for this game.

The main thing that caught me on the read was Zindaras. He was the second to vote for LyingBrian after Nai's second or third comment his direction, which'd be a good Islamist play if he caught the seer vibes from Nai as an easy anti-Communist direction to lead the town. (And it's easiest for the Islamists to spot the seer and Communists since they can already rule two more people out than any townie can)

It would also be a good town play. Besides, this is quite ridiculous. The discussion before that vote clearly led up to it. I voted for these reasons:

I find his behaviour Day 1 scummy, and his insistence that SL deserved to be lynched even scummier. And I very, very much dislike the way he's been responding to my posts. He apparently doesn't want to give his opinions on other players because he's rebellious, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Nai.

What I found more interesting afterwards were his repeated calls for people to vote. Day 2, the town was already only 50% pro-town, and every vote even then could be critical.

I think the whole deal with Rasta is the biggest thing we have yet.

I don't understand this line at all.

I don't like the amount of players who aren't voting, and I'd like to see a reduction in their numbers.

Pressure Vote: friday-13th

I think both friday and Lucresia should post before a hammah is cast.

I don't know about Brian anymore. It is a claim, but as I said, no Seer-vibes from him. Come to think of it, his investigation doesn't make any sense at all. Why, of all people, Cadre?

I think I'll vote Brian (yay for stream of consciousness posts), but I want friday and Lucresia to post first.

I don't mind a hammer, personally.

Those are the relevant quotes (assuming I didn't miss any). The last one was in response to TSQ asking if we minded if he hammered.

Not just that. Not only is your repeated point horribly incorrect, one of the quotes is trying to get people to post. As for "trying to pressure people into voting", that is not at all a bad thing. If there's something the Islamists want to do, it's lie low and let the town and the commies duke it out. Not only that, but if townies don't use their votes, it only gives the scum more power.

[KingPin]

I would expect then, an islamist, at this point in the game, to focus on throwing a lot of suspicion on someone they thought was a communist, while pretending to search for their own number. This is exactly what you just did.

It is very important to find the Communist, IMO. Since s/he is the link to keeping the town alive today. Right now there are equal number of Islamists and Republicans. If the town can find the Communist and use them to find the islamist, we can win. If, however, the Communist isn't found and is lynched, then we lose. That's why I think it is important to find out who the Communist is and make sure that they do not get lynched today. In addition, we all can agree then that an Islamist must be lynched today.

I would also (though I doubt it will be believed) like to put out there that I was planning on unvoting germy as the wagon grew, but couldn't because he self voted...A retarded strategy.

I do doubt that. And I agree with the second part of this statement. It was a stupid strategy on the part of Germy.

You have to reconcile in your mind KP, that sometimes townies make mistakes and do things that are bad for the town, this does not make said things scum tells. Sometimes town does it on purpose as a joke between friends, and as meta choices (the former being the case in the SL lynch.) This again does not make them scum tells. Looking at the intent of the action is how one determines if it's scummy or not.

I agree that sometimes townies make mistakes. I agree that these individual acts may not be scumtells. I agree that we need to look at the intent of the actions, to determine if they are scummy. I do not agree that "meta choices" that are distinctively anti-town should be ignored or excused because they are "meta choices." This argument that you keep coming back to is designed to essentially relieve you of your proof of intent. Why? Because you did not have a reason to vote for a townie other than that. Your intent was anti-town, because if you are a Republican you should have been looking for intentions as a reason to vote, but you ignored that.

Losing a seer is worth it to out one of the two communists. I still stand by that reasoning.

I disagree with this. LB's actions were inconsistent with the Seer. Therefore, he was already out. His claim was a last gasp.

Notice communists are not our threats right now, that is because with 1 member instead of 2, they fear a tie as much as we do, and are essentially on our side for now.

I agree they are not our biggest threat right now. However, if we had the Seer, we could investigate to make a positive confirmation on who it is, you IMO. But you are correct, right now Islamists pose the biggest threat to the town.

Again, I am not advocating for your lynch. IMO we cannot lynch the last remaining Communist. Your Claim is noted however.

On the other hand, I'm getting scummy vibes from Kingpin because he promised a reread yet never delivered a comment about it. This I find summy because surely it's not hard to reread on a single player, especially the one that is on 4 votes already.

I did the reread, however, by the time I was ready to post it was too late.

The only reason the wagon against germy finished so soon was coz he voted for himself, no one would've anticipated that.

Actually, Germy did say that he would vote for himself. That should have been a tip off to someone on the wagon.

[Yosarian2]

I disagree with this. LB's actions were inconsistent with the Seer. Therefore, he was already out. His claim was a last gasp.

I disagree, I don't think there was any part of LB's actions inconsistant with the Seer claim he made. I thought it was reasonably likely LB was telling the truth, because I thought his actions were consistant with his claim; that is, I was attacking him pretty strongly from the moment I started playing, and he never really attacked me back or ever even implied any suspicion of me, which would fit with a cop who had an innocent on me. (shrug)

[KingPin]

I'll be away until the 26th.

[sprontalic]

Actually, Germy did say that he would vote for himself. That should have been a tip off to someone on the wagon.

Yea, after the 4 votes were already placed on him.

[Lucresia]

My continuing sickness is only getting more worse..as I was not at work tuesday, wed, or thursday. I will catch up on this thread..I was able to read most of it..but not all and I must say I do have my own suspicions right now. Mainly though for the time being I really would like to state that I do agree with Kingpin on his conclusions. I think TSQ is the last commie and no, we shouldnt lynch him today. We have no choice but to lynch an islamist. I think the people on Germy's wagon were suspicious. Play should have been more cautious. I must say though that I HATE WHEN TOWNIES GIVE UP! I advised him not to, as it doesn't make any sense because the other people on the bandwagon had NOT convinced anyone else to vote for him. I found Germy hard to read and didn't want to make the mistake of voting a townie at a critical point. I will go back through and quote people later. I already posted on the gl in gossip mafia today and I think thats all I can handle before getting back to sleep. In the meantime please note that I do hear the people stating they had legitimate reasons for voting Germy. Although I don't necessarily believe it right now, I will go through and take the time to reread posts concerning this.

[Yosarian2]

Sure, Lucresia, I'll explain why I was suspicious of germy and why I voted for him. The biggest thing was the way he defended Lying Brian, and then it made it even worse that he denied defending him later.

This was one post where I attacked Lying Brian:

-i'm NOT insisting that ShadowLurker deserved to be lynched... i AM insisting that my vote was correct & justifiable, just like my vote on Thestatusquo...

I hardly think you SL vote was "correct" or even "justifiable".

Most of the things you attacked him with were terrible craplogic.

To paraphrase the discussion, you attacked him by saying "You did this, and it's scummy!"

He responded by saying "No, it's not scummy, because scum have no reason to do it."

And your response was "Ha! Now you're defending yourself with WIFOM, which is scummy!"

That "logic" made me cringe. You said "X is a scum tell". He said "No, X is not a scum tell, because scum wouldn't want to do X". That's a perfectly logical defense. It's not "wifom" at all; on the other hand, your attack of him following that was pure WIFOM logic, and really bad and twisted WIFOM logic at that.

saying that there is no advantage for scum to act a certain way makes the implication that scum doesn't act that way, therefore you must be town... but then the argument could be made that you know that is a town trait, and as scum you purposefully employ it to make yourself look more townish

That's horrible, horrible logic you were using there. You said that what he did was a scumtell, he said it was not, so now logically you would have to show why it was a scumtell. Instead of doing that, you actually tried to attack him for disagreeing with you that what he did was a scumtell, which is just dumb; of COURSE he didn't think what he was doing was a scumtell, and it clearly wasn't as he wasn't scum. He never said that his argument proved he was a good guy; only that your so-called "scum-tell" was not something scum were especally likely to do and therefore wasn't evidence of scumminess, a quite logical and fair argument, which you took and warped to make it sound like he was saying something totally different

I've taken to seeing misuse of the term WIFOM to try and make any argument you don't like just go away as a scum tell in and of itself; it's done way too often by scum, it's just too easy. Add to that the fact that you used some pretty terrible craplogic to push the lynch of a good guy, and the fact that I was getting a scum vibe from you from the moment I saw your first post, and i'm pretty happy with my vote on you now.

germy then defended Lying Brian by trying to refute my attacks against him in this post, and also tried to suggest that we should have all been attacking Kingpin instead of Lying Brian, while also trying to spread some suspicion onto TSQ at the same time. So, at the time, my impression was germy was doing everything he could to try and stop Lying Brian from being lynched.

[LyingBrian] said that what [Shadowlurker] did was a scumtell, he said it was not.

Actually, this didn't happen. LyingBrian FOSed Shadowlurker for not being helpful, but that was it. KingPin pointed out "scumminess" first, and not specifically as a "scumtell":

The problem starts when I don’t trust that you are pro-town. With nothing really happening on D-1 and your antics drawing attention to them, your play could be construed, IMO, as an attempt to play the "What advantage does a scum have in doing this" card. True, that scum would be silly for employing this tactic; however, this is easily defended, as you just noted, by implying that scum surely wouldn't act in a way to draw attention to themselves.

Shadowlurker then responded with:

you still have not pointed out ANY advantage scum would have for doing that meaning that what you have said, can't be a scumtell and can't be a case against me.
...
I would like to see your reasoning over why scum is more likely than a town player to employ that behavior Day 1, until I see that, I cannot see any case against me.

That

is how it started. It seems like the reasons people are voting for LyingBrian means that they should be voting for KingPin...

Anyway, now that we're all on the same page...

My opinion

I will answer Shadowlurker's direct question, albeit late.

I would like to see your reasoning over why scum is more likely than a town player to employ that behavior Day 1

where "that behavior" refers to Shadowlurker's profanity, quick voting, and general unhelpfulness, I assume.

Scum

might

be more likely than a town player to employ that behavior on Day 1 simply

to seem more town and "obviously not mafia."

My personal vote was not for the behavior itself, however. I was not suspicious of Shadowlurker for his playstyle, when this argument was brought up. I was suspicious of Shadowlurker (and now Thestatusquo) for

resorting to this defense

.

Along with that, there was also the other point I mentioned yesterday, which was that germy defended lying brian until he claimed seer, and then voted for him, which is exactally how I would have expected LB's scum partner to act and not at all how I would expect a good guy to act. I was pretty shocked when I found out that germy was not LB's partner.

[Zindaras]

My continuing sickness is only getting more worse..as I was not at work tuesday, wed, or thursday.

I hope you get better soon.

I think TSQ is the last commie and no, we shouldnt lynch him today.

I agree with this statement.

We have no choice but to lynch an islamist. I think the people on Germy's wagon were suspicious. Play should have been more cautious.

I disagree with this. I honestly felt germy was scum, and I think I gave enough reasoning for my vote. If anyone, we should be looking at the bandwagoners.

In the meantime please note that I do hear the people stating they had legitimate reasons for voting Germy. Although I don't necessarily believe it right now, I will go through and take the time to reread posts concerning this.

Well, that answers that.

[Kelly Chen]

Vote Count

not voting: Thestatusquo, KingPin, Zindaras, Yosarian2, Norinel, sprontalic, Lucresia

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch!

Note: If the next player lost is not an Islamist, the Islamists win.

Let me know if you want any particular prods.

[KingPin]

I disagree, I don't think there was any part of LB's actions inconsistant with the Seer claim he made.

I think LB's actions were inconsistent, he claimed he was the Seer and that he investigated Cadre N-1. I thought his night choice was inconsistent with his Day play.

Kind of slow, I blame baby Jesus!
I'll be gone again from Thursday through the 3rd.

[Norinel]

Also I don't think TSQ ever led the charge towards germy's lynch. In fact no one did, it was mutually agreed upon.

But it looks like the kind of mutual agreement that's a pile-on influenced by scum- maybe a townie or two had it against germy going into the day, but there had to be at least one scum in that first run of votes, most likely more. (Well, if you're a townie other than Y2, TSQ, spront, or Zind, you know at least two of them are)

Not just that. Not only is your repeated point horribly incorrect, one of the quotes is trying to get people to post. As for "trying to pressure people into voting", that is not at all a bad thing. If there's something the Islamists want to do, it's lie low and let the town and the commies duke it out. Not only that, but if townies don't use their votes, it only gives the scum more power.

I'll concede "repeated"; error in my notes from the long read. Still, pressuring people to vote is a bad thing in a situation where every vote can matter a whole lot. The obvious case is the classic lynch or lose, where we are now, but since the town hasn't had a majority since the start of Day 2, there's no reason not to be cautious. And once a scum group's half of the votes required to lynch (As the Islamists have been since Day 2), misplaced townie votes give the scum more power.

That's why I think it is important to find out who the Communist is and make sure that they do not get lynched today. In addition, we all can agree then that an Islamist must be lynched today.

IMO we cannot lynch the last remaining Communist.

There's a sort of repetition of the obvious here, but I'm not sure what it means. Of course if we lynch Islamist today, we're not lynching Communist, and since we need to lynch Islamist today to win if we lynch at all, we can't lynch the last Communist.

[Kelly Chen]

I'll put out prods tomorrow.