Open 482: Popcorn Mafia {Game Over}

[Mantisdreamz]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4768016
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4768790

[Mantisdreamz]

sorry forget the last link, i meant
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4769481

[Cherry Nog]

What is your problem with that post CN?

Same thing that struck me when I first saw your post 11. (see my 101 for what I was feeling before you explained stuff). It's currently a light suspicion.

Unless you're still talking about the mcqueen post, what I found bad about that I believe I said in the post you're referencing here (128 I believe).

That said I remember him being very active early game in Newbie 1256 where he was scum and fooled me big time so actually want some reasoning behind why he hasn't been posting here as well as thoughts on everyone in the room.

Then is excited siv, playing in his first game (also his only game at the time). Also a panicky siv, desperately staving off the lynch. Now? Slightly bored siv.

Anyway, thoughts on

everyone

half the game. I'll get the rest later.

Bumfuzzled: Pro-town. I can't tell that much on their actual alignment.
CDB: Lean slight scum for 125 - You'd potentially give the gun to someone who isn't scumhunting?
Cherry nog: Pro-town... same deal as fuzzy.
HadMatter: Lean-town.
Mac: Anti-town. Yup. He's mostly channeling newb.

Pro-town is twn isn't it? Are you just using fancy words to call people null?

[ChannelDelibird]

No. It's not. It's like saying "we shouldn't lynch someone because they might be a beloved princess." And, to be fair, I probably would lynch him. Just not shoot him.

Sooner or later (hint: sooner) we do actually have to shoot people who look like scum rather than second-guess ourselves into oblivion. I'm not going to advise against shooting people who I think are scum.

[Bumfuzzled]

HD, I know you're clear and probably happy doing jack shit but can you actually participate, every time I see you post inside another thread that's not here it's irksome because we need as much activity in this game as possible and you not assisting generate it is making this really difficult.

bumfuzzled - what are your thoughts on mcqueen? town/scum

Conflicted with him at the moment, discussed him a bit with Aweftie and we really didn't get anywhere with it. I think his vote on HatMatter and calling him scum in Post 56 combined with his explanation of it in Post 126 saying that he was 'trying something new' is genuine in that I don't think he'd be experimenting as mafia and stating that is what he's doing but at the same time he's avoiding taking any real stances or making any real reads, waiting for him to actually share his thought process because I think it'll become much easier to read him.

[Human Destroyer]

HD, I know you're clear and probably happy doing jack shit but can you actually participate, every time I see you post inside another thread that's not here it's irksome because we need as much activity in this game as possible and you not assisting generate it is making this really difficult.

Being confirmed town is a weakness of mine, I know.

I'm pretty much creating a list of my games and sorting out priorities and such; this one is definitely going to be high priority. When I get to this game, I'll be producing some good content.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Pro-town is twn isn't it? Are you just using fancy words to call people null?

I'm just using fancy words to call people null, but pro-town is someone I wouldn't lynch this early due to usefulness.

[Human Destroyer]

Oh wow, not only is this high priority, it's first priority.

Content incoming.

[Human Destroyer]

Page 1 has me liking Limo and ChannelDelibird, but I'm not sure if I agree with their assertion that Mac's reaction is "feigned indifference". I'm not sure HadMatter would've gone and fixed the mafia win condition off the get-go as scum, so he can be town for now. Also Mac seems pretty frustrated at the end of this page, but that's a null tell since town can be frustrated for being called scum or scum could be frustrated about being caught for the wrong reasons.

Page 2. Don't like Juke's whole Limo is confirmed town spiel and then retracting it. I like Mac's Post 34. I pretty much agree completely with Limo's Post 41 about Juke. I don't like Cherry Nog's Post 45, simply because it seems weird to be looking at who to kill before any information is available and before they even have the gun. It tugs at my gut a little.

Page 3. Still don't like Juke's "scumhunting". Bumfuzzled comes in and rocks my socks with their towniness, so yay. I like having Regfan as town, and I'm interested to see what his hydra partner brings to the table. Trying to ignore his reads so I don't accidentally sheep him though. mcqueen is null jsyk.

Page 4. Siveure pops in and does his scummy active-lurking thing, but I'll admit I can't read him for shit. I don't know where mcqueen's sudden interest in alts and such comes from, I've never seen him do that before. Post 88 is scummy milking of the whole "mcqueen is town due to lack of setup knowledge" thing that Juke was talking about earlier. I'm thinking Juke and mcqueen are not scum together. My knee-jerk reaction to mod-votes has become to vote that person, just because I've seen scum do it to try to look relaxed and comfortable in the setting. Post 98 is such a weird post and IMO it seems like an awkward buddying attempt.

Page 5. Post 102 is actually an interesting point on HadMatter's part. I'll give him credit for that. I still don't really get the suspicion on Mac and still think it's stretching. I'm unsure on Mantis mostly because I can't see any particular motivations in her posting. Hopefully I'll get a read on her at some point.

Page 6. CDB's point is relatively decent. I'm in agreement with Bumfuzzled with regard to Siveure. mcqueen is extremely jumpy about Siv's read on him; I'd say they're not partners either. I'm actually quite liking a Cherry/mcqueen pairing right now. I'm going to sheep Bum's big meta thingy just cause I'm sure as hell not reading through all of Mantis's games. Also, would just like to note Siv never actually called mcqueen scum for "lying about how he confirmed" or whatever so I'm not sure why mcqueen's getting all jumpy about it.

Page 7. Nothing I really want to comment on, unless anyone has something specific.

So tl;dr:

I'm thinking a Cherry Nog/mcqueen scumpairing is likely. Juke is a distant third in my scumreads. I'm fencing on Mac and Siv. Bumfuzzled, Limo, Mantis, CDB, HadMatter are all likely town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cherry Nog

Mock Doublevote: mcqueen

[Human Destroyer]

Oh right, mcqueen/Juke are not scum together as well.

[ChannelDelibird]

How close are you to shooting, HD?

[Jal]

Prodding Juke and Mac.

[Human Destroyer]

How close are you to shooting, HD?

I'm not shooting unless we get close to deadline or discussion has almost completely stagnated.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, OK. That's a totally reasonable stance to take but I must confess I was hoping for a little more seat-of-your-pants approach in a game where you only need one vote rather than six.

[Human Destroyer]

Oh I might not necessarily listen to the votecounts. I might take them into account, but my own reads are going to take precedence.

I'm just trying to reserve my instinctual tendencies this game because I don't want to fuck up.

[Juke]

Here, but not really. I will be when I get home from school, though.

[Mac]

jesus bumfuzzled, that's a lot of work...
i do appreciate you taking a look though to try and distinguish.
i'll look back at your reads in a moment.

but question for

mac

- your last post, 124. you asked how you were supposed to react. why get defensive? who do you find scummy for it?

Hello, I am here. I can repeat myself here and still be accused of anti-town for it or I can tell you that I'm new to this site and this way of playing. Who do I find scummy for it? Once I realised it was an attempt to read a reaction on me, it felt towny but then I asked myself "why did they target me?" and I

think

Limo said they wanted to see how a newbie reacted? I dunno if they got the reaction they wanted or what, but the continued pressuring of it has left me with a but of a null read as I'm not sure where they're going with it.

I'm not sure what the deal is with mcqueen really, he's probably my highest scumread. He'll probably call me a number of things for it but the fact is, Jal said the day wouldn't start 'til everyone confirmed. In fact, he said people would be replaced if they didn't pick up their PM and actually did replace someone. So surely mcqueen must have PM'd him to confirm? I'm not sure what his argument against this is because the evidence is against him here, and he continues to be aggressive to anyone challenging him. But still, I'd like to hear more from him.

Bumfuzzled reads town, asking HD to contribute more to scumhunting is a good sign for me and something we really need. I know it's rich coming from me and I'm trying to do my best so I'll hopefully have more to add after the weekend.

[mcqueen]

/CONFIRMING / MISTAKENLY DOUBLE CONFIRMING BECAUSE SOMEONE'S MEMORY IS BAD IS

NOT

A TELL. IT IS

NOT

SCUMMY, IT IS

NOT

TOWNY, IT IS

NOT

NULL.

WHO THE HELL TAUGHT YOU PEOPLE THAT /CONFIRMING IS A TELL?!?!?!?

WHY AM I OVERREACTING? BECAUSE OF THE STUPIDITY OF YOU PEOPLE THINKING THAT /CONFIRMING IS A TELL. IT IS

NOT

.

[mcqueen]

omgus

[Mantisdreamz]

jesus bumfuzzled, that's a lot of work...
i do appreciate you taking a look though to try and distinguish.
i'll look back at your reads in a moment.

but question for

mac

- your last post, 124. you asked how you were supposed to react. why get defensive? who do you find scummy for it?

Hello, I am here. I can repeat myself here and still be accused of anti-town for it or I can tell you that I'm new to this site and this way of playing. Who do I find scummy for it? Once I realised it was an attempt to read a reaction on me, it felt towny but then I asked myself "why did they target me?" and I

think

Limo said they wanted to see how a newbie reacted? I dunno if they got the reaction they wanted or what, but the continued pressuring of it has left me with a but of a null read as I'm not sure where they're going with it.

I'm not sure what the deal is with mcqueen really, he's probably my highest scumread. He'll probably call me a number of things for it but the fact is, Jal said the day wouldn't start 'til everyone confirmed. In fact, he said people would be replaced if they didn't pick up their PM and actually did replace someone. So surely mcqueen must have PM'd him to confirm? I'm not sure what his argument against this is because the evidence is against him here, and he continues to be aggressive to anyone challenging him. But still, I'd like to hear more from him.

Bumfuzzled reads town, asking HD to contribute more to scumhunting is a good sign for me and something we really need. I know it's rich coming from me and I'm trying to do my best so I'll hopefully have more to add after the weekend.

ok, thanks for the response. i agree that the reaction testing is a mostly null thing, if anything i think limo's first post does lean more townish though.. because scum might not want to come in and put a light on themselves for that kind of think since it could be taken the wrong way.

also think bumfuzzled seems town as well - i don't think he would be putting that much effort into looking into meta to consider his original thought of my entrance being off. they'd likely just look for that as a reason for a vote, i imagine.

..
i'm not so sure of cheery or siv. siv mostly due to lack of posts so not really a lot to get a feel from, except for thoughts on half the game.

cheery N - looks a bit hedgy. stuff like 128 "looks scum but maybe not". scum looking for a reason for a vote, and then back up that they could have been wrong if mcqueen flips town?
it looked like Cheery initially made the vote, saying that she(i think?) was going to follow N's thought process. but N later says that he was thinking juke, first. and then the hedge in 128 looks like it's not really a committal vote.


cheery nog - is it?

[Cherry Nog]

cheery N - looks a bit hedgy. stuff like 128 "looks scum but maybe not". scum looking for a reason for a vote, and then back up that they could have been wrong if mcqueen flips town?
it looked like Cheery initially made the vote, saying that she(i think?) was going to follow N's thought process. but N later says that he was thinking juke, first. and then the hedge in 128 looks like it's not really a committal vote.

I believe what mcqueen posted to be scum active lurking. N saying Juke just means I hadn't actually diacussed it with him, but I knew he wanted mcqueen at the start of the game, and with posts like mcqueen had, I was willing to go along with it.

But having played with mcqueen before, he has done bad posting as town before, so it's not a definite scumtell, but at present mcqueen has been the scummiest player so far in my opinion.

[ChannelDelibird]

I believe mcqueen has been sitebanned so may need a replacement? IMO there's nothing to the case on him apart from pushing a clearly stubborn player on something that cannot possibly be an alignment-specific issue.

People I'd be willing to shoot: Mac, Cherry Nog, Siv

Will reread thread a little later to refresh that list.

[Mantisdreamz]

cheery N - looks a bit hedgy. stuff like 128 "looks scum but maybe not". scum looking for a reason for a vote, and then back up that they could have been wrong if mcqueen flips town?
it looked like Cheery initially made the vote, saying that she(i think?) was going to follow N's thought process. but N later says that he was thinking juke, first. and then the hedge in 128 looks like it's not really a committal vote.

I believe what mcqueen posted to be scum active lurking. N saying Juke just means I hadn't actually diacussed it with him, but I knew he wanted mcqueen at the start of the game, and with posts like mcqueen had, I was willing to go along with it.

But having played with mcqueen before, he has done bad posting as town before, so it's not a definite scumtell, but at present mcqueen has been the scummiest player so far in my opinion.

k.
I do still wonder a bit what you mean....just because you said you recognize that he posts like that as town, so it's not a scum tell.


CDB - is that in order? those you are willing to shoot.
is it because of mac's initial reaction?

[ChannelDelibird]

Eh, it's probably in rough order I guess although wasn't deliberately put that way. As I've already explained, it's more for the fact that Mac doesn't seem particularly interested in determining who the scum are. His only scumread is sheeping a terrible but currently popular case on mcqueen. Zero initiative.

[Jal]

Prodding Limo and Hadmatter.