NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: Uberninja (and Mollie I guess), lets talk

Uber, I want you on my team. And by that I mean, Im pretty sure we are both town, but I really dont think Mollie is a good lynch.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST AM I GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER DAY ROUND FULL OF UBER GOOBER'S RAGING HARD ON FOR ME GODDAMN

I went to bed and you have not been around since, I would rather talk to you in real time you dummy did you ever stop to think of that? of course not it would require 2 extra brain cells that you apparently do not have.

I agree with vifam in that chickflip was probably nked cos scum thought he was a special is this your first game of mafia uber goober I doubt it was to "set you up". holy cow.

I think vifam is town and I have matt as unsure leaning town but the rest of ua's reads I agree with which is why I had him as town and thought the bw on him was scummy and dumb.

I still have you as leaning scummy although you have up a teeny bit into my unsure pile. maybe.

^ This is a town post. The frustration reads really genuine. Mollie being upset about Rob posting her secrets ALSO looked super genuine. She doesn't care about how her posts are perceived, she is just posting how she feels.

You two should just talk it out in real time, hold hands, and help me lynch the shit out of someone.

Can I interest either of you in a mattp/vifam/Zabriel wagon at all? Does either of you have a compelling reason to be townreading Zab that you'd like to share?

[UberNinja]

Oh, and after reading a JacobSavage ISO I am fine with him being lynched as well, regardless of what I said earlier about him being an easy wagon because he's stupid. That shit is heinous. Die suck die.

[UberNinja]

Spoiler: Uberninja (and Mollie I guess), lets talk

Uber, I want you on my team. And by that I mean, Im pretty sure we are both town, but I really dont think Mollie is a good lynch.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST AM I GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER DAY ROUND FULL OF UBER GOOBER'S RAGING HARD ON FOR ME GODDAMN

I went to bed and you have not been around since, I would rather talk to you in real time you dummy did you ever stop to think of that? of course not it would require 2 extra brain cells that you apparently do not have.

I agree with vifam in that chickflip was probably nked cos scum thought he was a special is this your first game of mafia uber goober I doubt it was to "set you up". holy cow.

I think vifam is town and I have matt as unsure leaning town but the rest of ua's reads I agree with which is why I had him as town and thought the bw on him was scummy and dumb.

I still have you as leaning scummy although you have up a teeny bit into my unsure pile. maybe.

^ This is a town post. The frustration reads really genuine. Mollie being upset about Rob posting her secrets ALSO looked super genuine. She doesn't care about how her posts are perceived, she is just posting how she feels.

You two should just talk it out in real time, hold hands, and help me lynch the shit out of someone.

Can I interest either of you in a mattp/vifam/Zabriel wagon at all? Does either of you have a compelling reason to be townreading Zab that you'd like to share?

Tried that in post 1305. Failed miserably because mollie has absolutely no interest in being reasonable or answering questions.

[Vifam]

Jacob comes up a lot but whenever he does I can't remember a single thing he's posted or said in this game

This JacobSavage wagon is smelling an awful lot like a shitty wagon.

Why? He's done absolutely no scum hunting.

That sounds like a really weak reason to start this wagon

Also what the fuck. Guys, Vifam is mafia and its obvious as shit.

In 1510, Vifam responds to JS votes with this really passive and subtle support.
Moz: Jacob is a good wagon.
P_A: JS is scum for sheeping and lurking.
Mollie: Well JS was probably busy. Give him a chance.
Vifam: Ya I can't remember anything of value that JS has done.

--
Then later down in 1522 Vifam suddenly has sympathy for JS's lurking.
Moz: JS is scum for lurking / lack of scum hunting
Vifam: Your vote is shady as fuck.

Vifam is posturing like fuck wrt the JS wagon here. Casting JS in a bad light in response to JS votes (essentially implying the votes are justified because JS is useless) just to turn on Moz and tell him his vote is shitty since its based on JS's lack of play?

The first quote was just me saying that JS wasn't a memorable player and you assume that for that reason I was entertaining that he could be scum, which isn't true at all

There was no attempt to shroud doubt on JS there and that was a huge misrep

[Maestro]

Herobrine has agreed to being force-replaced because of Mod Error.
Searching for a replacement, please PM me with suggestions if you have any.

VC goes here in the morning.

GO RAVENS!

[I Am Innocent]

@AP, just read your intro post and not one mention of any player interaction with underachievers in any of your reads? Come on man, seriously?

With regards to your question, no I see absolutely nothing scummy about a player asking another player for a list of the top 4 scummiest players. I did the same thing later to Jacob too. Do you find it scummy?

@Matt, you continue to hide behind this wagon of one of mine that you refuse to provide a case for. I want 3 other scum reads from you, and reasons for those scum reads.

@AP, you list Jacob as a leaning scum read in your first wagon and when a town and null read of yours votes for him, you call it a crappy wagon in 1511?

Please do explain.

Nevermind I see you sort of explain in 1516. Re that post, why wouldn't people who ended the day on the counterwagon to UA that seemed to stall still vote that person today?

Need to finish catching up later, but Jacob needs to die today.

vote JacobSavage

[PeregrineV]

Busy work schedule this week, so will try to catch up as I can.

[UberNinja]

mollie. 1305. go.

[TheReverend]

Sup, I'm sort of back off my V/LA, but it's my burfday today so fuck reading the whole thread. I'm just gonna catch up on today and try to get a feel for this game.

This is my birthday music. I demand you all listen to this and bob about like a twat while reading the thread.



Comments as I catch up...

Hi AP. So I gotta be honest, it always unnerves me when someone I've had the read on as scum before wants to be my best friend. Why did you have a scumread on chkflip? He was a cleared townie after mod punished him by docking town time. I wasn't going to make a big deal about that because obv it's a bit lame, but he wasn't getting my vote. Seemed like the obvious NK to me. Obvtown.

Zab, if he's scum he's massively improved. I've made this point a couple of times already. I don't want to keep reminding him how bad he played when I replaced into the scum team (you were in that game), and sure I believe him when he says he's improved, but I'm sure he's town this game. So another read of yours I disagree with.

Other than these two, I can agree with your reads to a large extent. Personally, I think we should be sheeping UA's twilight reads, but I'm gonna catch up before I throw a vote down.

Basically...Jacob, Majiffy, Aj, Hero, IAI, and MattP are where I've focused.

Ok I don't like this post...

VOTE: JacobSavage

Still hasn't provided any content with documented reasons beyond sheeping and conveniently doesn't have chkflip on his last reads post at all.

It's pretty obvious why people were dodging giving a read on chkflip... he's obvtown and people don't want to give the mod a hard time for making him obvtown. Jacob could be scum, in fact he's not a bad lynch, but using the fact that he neglected to give a read on chk is lame.

I like this post of mollie's...

@ majiffy

you said about arcangel "she is like this in every game. also the drugs." <---- where is this coming from? you don't read the games you gm and you are too lazy to do a thorough background meta check. it kind of reminds me of what you said about daphne when we were all scum going down on d2 in the desk game at tr.

I'm getting a weird vibe from majiffy. Seems like he's trying to play his usual flippant meta, rather than it coming naturally. He's a concern of mine, and I believe mollie is town.

It takes two to bicker but that was literally pointless and I don't think you'd get involved with that as town

Are you serious? Majiffy will happily sling shit at anyone for any reason. There's one scum between vifam and majiffy, after this post I'm leaning vifam.

Vifam, why do you think Chkflip was killed last night then?

Chkflip wasn't very vocal and was playing lowkey, he probably got the nightkill because scum thought he was a PR, and if he wasn't it wouldn't give much information by the way he was playing.

Makes sense to me

Although I didn't really think about the kill until you asked me about it

The fuck is this bollocks? Vifam is scum. It's super obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a quarter of a second that chk was killed because he was a cleared townie. Why is vifam neglecting to talk about this?

I could buy Zab being scum

Vifam is scum.

Majiffy and Vifam still look very town to me.

What the shitting Jesus is this?

Moz flies up my list.

I agree with vifam in that chickflip was probably nked cos scum thought he was a special is this your first game of mafia uber goober I doubt it was to "set you up". holy cow.

More scumminess. Why is everyone neglecting to understand why chkflip was the most obvious NK of them all? The mod accidentally cleared him. No-one is prepared to say this out loud. Why?

Also what the fuck. Guys, Vifam is mafia and its obvious as shit.

Ok now I'm feeling better about pidgeon.

K I'm caught up. Now for a big fat fucking birthday spliff.

Oh yeah, VOTE: vifam

[UberNinja]

read. watched. listened. bobbed.

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar

[PeregrineV]

@AP- It was nowhere near a stretch. Last time I refused to follow up on something like that hard enough, it bit me in the ass.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3507498 (Hindu was scum).

Interest now is in IaI. Will do an ISO on him today. Also on Mhork.

[PeregrineV]

@Uber- you still scum or did you get that fixed?

[pirate mollie]

No but seriously though. Since I know you're on, let's have a chat. A heart-to-heart if you will. Let's pretend each other are masons, let's scumhunt together.

I will purposely try not to recall the reasons I thought you were scum (they have gotten hazy) so that I can more effectively run this exercise. Please do the same for me. (...not that your reason for voting me is anything more than OMGUS mixed with "well, it doesn't seem like the Uber I have heard about", anyway )

Who do you think are scum? Why?

I am not trying to be difficult here, but when you asked this I had already given a list of my reads and the reasons. today with the new info, everything has shifted a bit, some are weaker some are stronger and some have completely changed.

my scum pile consists of majiffy and arcangel at the mo. I don't buy arc's dingbat routine at all and I am sus of majiffy for a couple of reasons most I have already indicated. I am throwing penguin loosely in there too cos of her tunneling on jacob; very reminisce of the game I played with her where she was scum. she tunnels on a low participant and then fades. conversely I am a little sus of jacob too until he puts something forth that is more contributive. aj is in that pile of mollie no like and IaI is still hanging strong.

For me it's:

1. MattP. I don't like Matt's early interactions, wagon placement, hopping from point to point without a sense of grounding (the best way to play as scum, because you never have to attach to anything, and therefore can never be held to your word), and generally just a sense of complacency because he knows he's good ass cum.

2. Probably chkflip. He's provided precious little original content, though seems to have an attitude of arrogance that is not proportionate to either his reputation (I've never heard of him as being good, and have only seen him in passing, in discussion forums), and has basically said he's just sheeping Matt so can't be responsible for what he does (even though he was on the Mhork wagon before Matt, and hasn't yet switched to the UA one, after Matt has pushed that).

3. Somebody who's mostly lurking. It'd be far too easy to lose yourself in the background of a game like this, with multiple strong personalities, and also by principle it's easier to do that in a large game because more people are making more posts, etc.

Your thoughts?

I get why people are worried about matt and vifam, in fact I doubt there are fewer people on here who can empathise with the rigor of trying to get a really strong player lynched. at a recent game on my homesite I tried for 4 days to get this player lynched and nearly got there but there was a dumb town cabal of 4 players who could not/would not see her as scum (I had her pegged in 2 posts). finally after I wound up dead nacho took her out on n6 cos I made him promise when he first joined the site if I wound up and I say this player is scum you better lynch her. he couldn't get her lynched so he vig-killed her and won the game for town.

I have AP as very town and probably whom I am going to be trying to work with and I guess that means you too. when you went into crazy conspiracy land, you moved up into my unsure cos I see that type of paranoid thinking (talking about the nk here) as coming more from town rather than scum.

your turn. where do you stand with your reads today?

[pirate mollie]

lol, xpost

happy birthday rev!

I actually forgot about the gm clearing chickflip. I actually had chickflip down as town beforehand.

I dunno about vifam. there have been a few times that he has said exactly what I was thinking and I tend to see that as town although I know there are crossovers like that between scum and town. I already tried to do a reach out to him and he was all like "yo" so he lost some town points for that but I just don't know him as a player at all - his refusal to interact with me makes it hard to get a read but so far I have had him as town.

[borkjerfkin]

I still think this Jacob wagon is not where we need to be right now -- there's just not enough there to me that screams scum over lazy/uninterested player, but IAI seems of even less substance.

@Majiffy -- I have no desire to self-meta so I'm not even going to bother arguing whatever soft attack you're trying to make against me. Otherwise whatever, I rarely have any fucking idea what to make of you. You're not being terribly opportunistic you're just generating tons of fucking noise.

AP is town, seems very likely he had no idea chkflip was dying. Bitmap was town too.
@AP -- do you really think Vifam and Matt are scum together? That seems horribly impossible.

I also don't like Vifam's 1475 or his relentless buddying of Matt (which is why I don't think they're scum together)
VOTE: Vifam

Uber's done a total 180 content-wise since yesterday. He can go back to null for now until I reread him.

Zab's probably town for 1509 alone; I certainly don't see a compelling case here.

Mollie is leaning town but in the past I've either 1) found her super towntelling early on or 2) been scum myself so I'm just relying on the appearance of attempting to peel away the game layers here. She's actually making more sense than usual to me.

[MattP]

bork is town let's talk about that

I no longer care about this game, GJ scum the town is a mess

[TheReverend]

I no longer care about this game, GJ scum the town is a mess

Dude it's d2, why you throwing in the towel already? Twon is not in a mess. This is a really scummy post imo.

Also, thanks mollie!

[MattP]

B/C noone is listening to me, and I'm right, and I'm watching stupid ass lynches get set up and frankly I don't give a single fuck, people are doubting a townread on me, pushing towards lynches on all my townreads, and being idiotic. AD is playing a terrible game congrats AD. UN I frankly dont give a fuck since he's a mess but is really proud of it so it's adorable, Vifam should die because I'd like to watch it. ArcAngel ate something radioactive, etc etc etc

I can't help wanting you all dead, my psychiatrist specifically told me that my feelings cant be tamed

[TheReverend]

Yesterday's lynch was indeed stupid, but I only realised that once it was sealed. But we're far from in a mess. I don't like it when people say stuff like this early on, it seems like an attempt to demoralise the town into not giving a fuck.

[MattP]

It shouldn't demoralize anyone, noone gives a shit about my opinion!

[ActionDan]

are you like,

ok matt?

[MattP]

I'm dandy tyvm

[MattP]

But really, life is good right now, thank you for asking

[ActionDan]

ok cool

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP, just read your intro post and not one mention of any player interaction with underachievers in any of your reads? Come on man, seriously?

@AP, you list Jacob as a leaning scum read in your first wagon and when a town and null read of yours votes for him, you call it a crappy wagon in 1511?

Please do explain.

Nevermind I see you sort of explain in 1516. Re that post, why wouldn't people who ended the day on the counterwagon to UA that seemed to stall still vote that person today?

1. Yes I did. I said that Majiffy's interactions with him in twilight looked genuine and that Vifam's looked forced. Also, why does this matter? He was town and I don't usually make cases based on connections. Have YOU drawn any conclusions from the Mastinero townflip that you'd like to share? Because I dont see any from you either.

2. Jacob is a weaker scumread. I'd much rather wagon Vifam/Zab/Matt and probably you before Jacob. Hence 5th/6th best wagon. And hes mainly scummy since I have some reasonable townreads and he isnt one of them. Yes, Im not saying that ending the Day on a JS wagon should stop people from hopping on the next Day, but that IS a weak reason to be on. The whole case on him is basically hes lurking, hes not contributing..and that is bad. I particularly didn't like where he asked Mattp if he could be trusted not to jump off another wagon. That looked like blatant discrediting/distancing for someone not really following along the thread very well supposedly.