In post 1673, Mehdi2277 wrote:Safety's attitude claim wise makes him suck as a shot. Cheery similarly but less so. I think just removing guille and monkey has a good chance of ending the game. Jake one of his things involve how he replaced back in wanting to play which just sounds like he's town (well some people love scum a lot in the day phase too, but generally wanting to play right after a hospital thing I'd consider a town tell).
It could be possible, but the problem with that is lack of cc so the card belonging to monkey is true at least.
He said permanent to mean he can shoot each night while alive.
I know, but Jake is being weird and PoE makes him a suspect.
How am I being weird? And what Poe? This may be the first you have shown any suspicion of me. The last time you mentioned my name was you were sad to see me replacing out
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
Sometimes I get heated and don’t realize it. If I get like this please somebody tell me to take a break and chill out. Thanks in advance.
In post 1672, Lord Mhork wrote:Rereading Xis made me remember why I liked him for town. Vigging him would be stupid and a waste. Guille and safety should get vigged. Or maybe Cheery...or Jake... I don't really have solid town reads on any of them. Pretty sure there's scum in that bunch.
I don't recall you having these suspicions before, what caused them?
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
In post 1671, Mehdi2277 wrote:Tbg there's no point hiding who trackers target if we only have one mafia alive. If there's one mafia alive trackers work like cops. Directed trackers can work out fine (and did pretty awesomely in detective mafia).
I'd rather keep both watchers alive with the same person then keep jal + try to keep other vig alive. Not sure how you see keeping the vigs alive is more important then the watchers.
And plans can only be created if people bother to write them. Past experience shows it's a lot easier to write one myself and have people argue it then wait for someone else to.
I don't think we only have one mafia alive, right now, though. If Monkey does flip scum, both Watchers should be on the trackers, and we can direct them.
If we just have the watchers circlejerk, they're essentially just turned into two BP town at best, while Scum get free reign to kill elsewhere. If Scum have a roleblocker, which, again, you should be assuming they do if you're Town, then the watchers being on each other is 100% useless. (block safety, kill jake, and nobody sees anything + jake is dead)
Public plans that we're absolutely positive the mafia can see are very, very, dangerous, and you've suggested actions that play right into their hands. You cannot plan everything publicly unless you're in a math-win scenario, which we aren't.
In post 1674, Mehdi2277 wrote:Another option is both vigs shoot guille if we want to use the vigs on same person idea.
Don't waste Town kills. We make a premade plan of who gets vidged, and if it's deviated from, we assume Scum got the card. If someone is not vidged due to a block, we'll see the blocker via watchers, unless the Watcher is killed. (after thinking, it's actually better for the new vidge holder to claim imo) That much Scum action would open up plenty of tracker opportunities + we'd keep both vidges alive a phase.
How would everyone feel about the below?
If Monkey is Town:
Role Owner
Card Name
Role Power
Target
Safety Dance
Electric Company
Tracker
???
Cheery Dog
Waterworks
Tracker
???
Safety Dance
Mediterranean Avenue
Watcher
Jal
Jake
Baltic Avenue
Watcher
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk
Jal
Park Place
Vig
Mehdi
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk
Boardwalk
Vig
Guille
If Monkey is Scum:
Role Owner
Card Name
Role Power
Target
Safety Dance
Electric Company
Tracker
Mehdi
Cheery Dog
Waterworks
Tracker
Jake
Safety Dance
Mediterranean Avenue
Watcher
Cheery Dog
Jake
Baltic Avenue
Watcher
Safety Dance
Jal
Park Place
Vig
No Kill
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk
Boardwalk
Vig
No Kill
(we can tracker clear the entire game before we lose, unless the Scum No Kills repeatedly)
I don't have anything to put here because my normal signature is images. Weeeeee.
Why not shoot people in the monkey is scum table? There's enough power role stuff to clear enough people that speeding things up a bit won't hurt.
As for the second paragraph I already commented on the RB stuff last page.
I'm not against the tables as much beyond my death except having both trackers target the same person is bad so at the least you should have one of the two trackers be given a choice of 2 people to target and the other can target anyone not in those 2 or dying.
I see a problem with that plan should monkey be town, we won't know who gets the vig card until tomorrow (as it will be received after the game is locked), so the second watcher won't be able to watch the second vig.
The watchers should therefore decide to either watch the other watcher or Jal, as we don't actually want them open to being killed and not knowing who if they end up roleblocked, roleblocked the vig.
Also with the monkey flipping town, what happens if Guille picks up the second vig? No Kill or someone else?
I see no problems with the monkey = scum plan.
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
In post 1679, Mehdi2277 wrote:Why not shoot people in the monkey is scum table? There's enough power role stuff to clear enough people that speeding things up a bit won't hurt.
As for the second paragraph I already commented on the RB stuff last page.
I'm not against the tables as much beyond my death except having both trackers target the same person is bad so at the least you should have one of the two trackers be given a choice of 2 people to target and the other can target anyone not in those 2 or dying.
(we can tracker clear the entire game before we lose, unless the Scum No Kills repeatedly)
There's no reason to "speed things up" when we haven't won 100%. We'll do better by forcing as many Night Phases as possible, because at that point, Town will actually be stronger than Scum at Night.
We waste the tracker if we force him into a narrow pool. The other Scum will just do the kill. We're better off risking a crosstrack than specifying, because Scum will counter anything specific.
In post 1680, Cheery Dog wrote:I see a problem with that plan should monkey be town, we won't know who gets the vig card until tomorrow (as it will be received after the game is locked), so the second watcher won't be able to watch the second vig.
The watchers should therefore decide to either watch the other watcher or Jal, as we don't actually want them open to being killed and not knowing who if they end up roleblocked, roleblocked the vig.
Also with the monkey flipping town, what happens if Guille picks up the second vig? No Kill or someone else?
I see no problems with the monkey = scum plan.
Ah, good catch.
Guille can shoot Xis. We definitely do want this planned out, since we want an unplanned shot = scum got the card.
If Monkey is Town:
Role Owner
Card Name
Role Power
Target
Safety Dance
Electric Company
Tracker
???
Cheery Dog
Waterworks
Tracker
???
Safety Dance
Mediterranean Avenue
Watcher
Jal
Jake
Baltic Avenue
Watcher
Safety Dance
Jal
Park Place
Vig
Mehdi
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk
Boardwalk
Vig
Guille (if Guille gets it, Xis)
If Monkey is Scum:
Role Owner
Card Name
Role Power
Target
Safety Dance
Electric Company
Tracker
Mehdi
Cheery Dog
Waterworks
Tracker
Jake
Safety Dance
Mediterranean Avenue
Watcher
Cheery Dog
Jake
Baltic Avenue
Watcher
Safety Dance
Jal
Park Place
Vig
No Kill
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk
Boardwalk
Vig
No Kill
I don't have anything to put here because my normal signature is images. Weeeeee.
Cross-watching is awful only if you both watch each other. It's okay and probably optimal to have one of you on the other and him on Jal, so that Jal's not able to be tampered with. Safety's double PR is more important to protect, so we should have you watch him rather than the other way around.
I don't have anything to put here because my normal signature is images. Weeeeee.
Bear with me, I'm reading through these tables and info now but I want to understand it all and its hard with this headache I have atm. There are still some things I want to address before any hammer. Should be around evening, Eastern Time
Monkey, if you are town, would be nice to know what other cards you have, even if there's no power in them, so we know what to look out for when people claim.
One is (if I understand correctly) someone claiming X-shot Doc as thier role under lynch pressure.
The other is someone claiming an already used 1-shot Doc as a gained ability under absolutely no pressure.
Context is
huge.
In post 1501, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I don't understand why you want to blindly trust role info (which we have mod confimation may have been fucked with) instead of lynching off of scumhunting.
I trust absolutely what info I have, not anyone elses. I see a massive contradiction to what I have seen at night, I am going to bring that up. That
is
scumhunting. Mehdi's claim is still dodgy, "with context".
Look at what we have in card claims:
2 Trackers, from both utilities. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Watchers, both from purples. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Vigs, both from dark-blues. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
1 Deed-counter from light-blue(green?). No counter-claims
1 unspecified power role from 2 oranges. No counter-claims
2 cards back into circulation at night, both claimed. 4 cards back in circulation during the day. All claimed. No counter-claims here.
Looking at all that and what is the most dodgy? What stands out as the softest claim?
Now before all this, we have the claim of a one-shot doc card being used. I'm not going to try and understand if maf, why he would try to claim it, but it's a claim that means relatively nothing in the scheme of things and if he had no prior knowledge of what roles are out there with the cards (as evidenced by #947), a claim that couldn't really be proved, except for the "misfortune" of being tracked. As to what gain, who's to say otherwise that if left uncontested the overall view of him would be pro-town, especially as he looks like he tried to save someone?
There's also a few things about his overall play too.
If Mehdi was roleblocked (or re-directed, or bussed etc), and it was by someone town, why would they not come out and claim so?
He's also claiming to have breadcrumbed a PR yet not quoting it or mentioning it again despite having been at L-1.
And I still think something like this is a problem:
In post 895, Mehdi2277 wrote:And that same scum miller got nominated for a scummy. Kind of means something and if you want an opinion of a non townie who read the game I commented and said sala played pretty great. Policy lynching millers is a bad idea if you don't care much about their play.
I'll check the cards I got later, but I've gotten 2 already (one was at night and the other I mentioned during the day before).
Where did gnr mention the kills like that in the OP?
I think this needs to be clarified. How'd you get a card at night? Lurker's two cards have been claimed.
It's been clarified already. It's referring to the chance card that was a get out of jail safe card. The other being I got money during the day yesterday (I think inherited 100 dollars)
Because if you used a card's action at night, why would you need to go back and check it the day after, especially when you've supposedly used it up. Doesn't sit right.
So I think it all adds up to something that needs clarification which I don't see happening without a flip. Unless you think I'm lying which, presuming since that's where your vote lies and you consider me important enough to watch, doesn't seem to be the case.
In post 1033, Cheery Dog wrote:Sounds exactly the same as I got with waterworks on UberNinja, so I disagree.
Got with waterworks on UberNinja?
Mhork, you know, we were just in a game together where determining who did what kill was actually an important feature on D2 as Sword both A) suspected you as scum and called out 2/3s of the scum team whereas the vig who killed Triton.. well, triton had nada. So why are you putting suspecion onto me for determining what the night kills mean? That is scummy fucking shit right there.
Waiting out to see how the effects of either being role blocked would be. but one sec
I'd say it's not 'scummy fucking shit.' Often there's no point in trying to figure out what kills mean 'cause it's a mess of WIFOM. Also I wasn't even putting suspicion on you. It was a legitimate question. Your paranoid defense against it is noted, though.
And with the Mehdi thing, does this mean that he was roleblocked? Or am I misunderstanding something?
Also hi, guille!
Here's to a quick catch up.
I was surprised to see he was asking for clarification even back here as to what's going on in relation to Mehdi, he gets responses too.
Rereading Xis made me remember why I liked him for town. Vigging him would be stupid and a waste. Guille and safety should get vigged. Or maybe Cheery...or Jake... I don't really have solid town reads on any of them. Pretty sure there's scum in that bunch. I just know that Mehdi prolly shouldn't be shot, or Jal unless Monkey flips town, or Xis, or Brawly. I'm, like, 86% these guys are town.
Then there's this horrible post which sums up everything wrong with his play. Mehdi is somehow now an absolute pro-town read and someone who shouldn't be shot, he openly wants myself to be vigged (not realising what cards I have?). It flies in the face of everything that's been discussed this day and I can only imagine he's suggesting it because I've called him out for being ignorant, which this post clearly shows.
So either he's being anti-town not paying enough attention or he's scummy because he's not really caring what happens during the day (as long as he's not a target).
Using outside game info is fine but you can't ignore what is layed out in front of us now and the information we have at the moment points to the most likely outcome being Baby vigkilling UN and UN being the mafia kill.
Unless Cheery is lying.
There's also thie pearler to consider, if you're trying to meta GNR:
In post 1492, SafetyDance wrote:I'm at least looking at everything we have and trying to make a theory out of it, not apply my own theory to the current circumstances.
We have two claimed vig cards with the town who ended dead last night but you think its more likely that a standard SK (with no power from cards) killed rather than two of the people who held the cards? I think you're the one assuming a lot here.
I don't believe I stated that an SK would be cardless. Where do you get that from?
I didn't mean you said they didn't have deed cards at all, cardless as in getting their alignment before deeds were handed out and kill not from a card but from their alignment. Which would be the only way a SK would be in the game. Maf with a vig card would just be a Scum Vigilante.
In post 1545, Jake from State Farm wrote:going over all the people who are suspicious of baby and I saw something pretty interesting. If anyone has free time look over number's posts about baby and see if anyone else notices the same red flags that I just noticed. There are some pretty glaring red flags in my opinion.
I didn't see anything. Actually, after reading his iso early on, I'm surprised you wouldn't come to the same conclusions as Xis did in #1475 when reading his iso yourself. It's the main reason Xis' has slid a notch towards town in my eyes.
Care to explain this further what you mean?
In post 1233, Jake from State Farm wrote:But given the 2 purples are watcher cards, it's possible that the 2 utility cards have the same ability.
Safety some powers become useless if claimed. I think I've already said that. Basically for your curiosity you want me to weaken my role.
And it's bad to look at an old pm to make sure I've conveying it right? Since good luck telling me what chance and chest cards you've gotten without checking.
You can argue not caring as a scum tell but apathy =/= scum. And his comment on me sketchy had nothing to do with your role stuff so yes different reasons can make different conclusions.
And you're assuming no cc exist when the more obvious thing is just repeated roles.
The If Scum, seems fine, I think I understand it, though its sounds like all it needs is a roleblocker and this can fall apart. What does tracking mehdi do, or in this scenario does the only way for him to be town is if monkey flips rb/rd?
I'm happy with it I guess as long as everyone else is. Does need complicity from all though.
One question for you though, since you were originally on Monkey before going on Mehdi, and you find him scummy enough to plan all this, why haven't you hammered or given intent to?
In post 1693, Mehdi2277 wrote:Safety some powers become useless if claimed. I think I've already said that. Basically for your curiosity you want me to weaken my role.
And it's bad to look at an old pm to make sure I've conveying it right?
Since good luck telling me what chance and chest cards you've gotten without checking.
You can argue not caring as a scum tell but apathy =/= scum. And his comment on me sketchy had nothing to do with your role stuff so yes different reasons can make different conclusions.
And you're assuming no cc exist when the more obvious thing is just repeated roles.
Don't need to check, $100 Xmas and Robert got one that gave him a double vote. A doc card stands out a lot clearly than those, especially if you've just used it the night before, why would you need to check what it is, when its not something you can use again?
Haven't discounted any of the powers claimed could be in scum hands, that's where as long as all town follow the table provided, we hopefully find out if someone's scum.
In post 1696, Mehdi2277 wrote:K you remember all of them. I don't as much. There's no reason to memorize things that you can look at whenever.
I'm saying another copy of those powers can exist in town's hands just that we never tried to fully claim everything and don't currently need to.
It's not really about memorisation. If you just used a doc card why would that not be at the fore front of your mind and why would you need to go check it.
And as for your mystery power, it means less now because there's almost no chance you're going to get lynched today but surely if you're at L-1 or being pressured, if you want to stay alive so you can use your power, you'd claim what you have. Right now you could go into the night and do absolutely anything, especially if monkey ends up town.
I seriously like this vote count. Jal's wagon is all town fmpov. We have Lord Mohrk with great reasoning still on Lurker, we have SC there for the same reasons and one of the in-game lurkers numbersQ coming in and popping up just to vote Lurker too, all between the lurker-claim and the lurker-slip. Stranger's wagon is the place to look.
Seriously, if you are surviving town, going back through and reading the posts from around #300-#650, this is where the game can be won
Agent_Ireland (unvoted 1st (after claim))
Jal (unvoted 3rd)
Xisiqomelir (unvoted 4th)
Lord Mhork
Mogadishu Jones (unvoted 2nd)
StrangerCoug (CheeryDog)
Jake also labelled Lurker scum but didn't put his vote there until scum slip was caught.
Mogadishu was actually on the wagon, off the wagon, on the wagon then off after claim.
So quick count has Jal is on every wagon whilst CheeryDog/SC, Jake, Xis and AI/MM576 are on 3/4. So they are the most swingy or opportunistic voters. YMMV obviously.
Interesting to see that all bar Xis have some sort of power claim too. Can't read too much into it now but we'll know more after Monkey flips scum or not.
