Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[mykonian]

Which is why you could chose to play a deck able to beat the standard. Knowledge still gets you there. If they only play meta approved cards (and hey, it's the meta, so most people do), you know what you are up against. All you need to do after that is outwit your coming opponents.

The problem with building a deck from a theme is that most meta-following decks have tools to shut a deck down which has only one goal.

[Fate]

Shut the hell up Myko?

I know WHY meta decks are good and better than gimmick decks dumbaas

[mykonian]

I want to play MY deck with cards that fit my theme and playstyle, not a meta approved deck you ll see every tournament.
I rather beat someone better than me because my deck surprised them beat someone better because my deck r was better

sorry, didn't seemed like you were looking for a gimmick deck.

[Fate]

Theme/gimmick, whatever.

I don't want to have to be "forced" to include cards that are considered "Staple" in certrain colors.

I don't want to have to play mayor mcwhatthefuck when I play red/green and be retarded if I don't because he's such an "efficient" and "good" card, or make an aggro deck involve winning before turn 4 because Supreme Verdict is a card that exists and is played like candy


Obviously I won't be entering any tournaments with these decks and lulzing to the finish line, but I want to be able to have fun with them (because I enjoy the playstyle and cards I choose) and occasionally win a game.

I'll learn the meta for Limited because that's fun in its own right, but if I'm going to call something "my own" I want it to be something I invented and not something copy/pasted and then bought from stores.

[xRECKONERx]

Lol is the example I was going to use FOR.a game I already play that satisfies that need, but since its not turned based, I went for dominion instead.

And I have the wrong imPression its not the money that bothers me, its more the lack of creativity. If there's only so many meta approved cards you can play, thats no fun to me.

I want to play MY deck with cards that fit my theme and playstyle, not a meta approved deck you ll see every tournament.
I rather beat someone better than me because my deck surprised them beat someone better because my deck r was better

Eh, you're getting involved during a very cool time for Standard. Lots of things are taking Top 8s now, as opposed to pre-RTR when it was just Delver & Zombies.

But this is kind of why I like to play Limited mostly...it allows me to build a deck with what I have without worrying about needing to dump tons of money into the big $25-$40 "staple" cards in standard. Play enough limited, you'll pick up some money cards, and then if there's a deck you like that fits well in Standard, you'll have the trade fodder to build it.

[mykonian]

The point is not that you can't make something of your own. It is that if you start thinking from a theme you'll end up with a deck with only one purpose. Nearly all meta decks are equipped to deal with decks with a single purpose. That's why they survive, become the meta. That doesn't mean you couldn't build something of your own which could beat them. I was just saying building on the basis of a theme is likely not going to work.

[Fate]

<3

LIKE CURSE OF STALKED PREY RITE?

[Fate]

MYKO

WHAT THE HELL DID I TELL YOU

SHUT

THE

FUCK

UP

[Fate]

THE TOPIC OF FUCKING DISCUSSION IS:

HOW YOU ENJOY PLAYING FUCKING MAGIC

NOT

HOW CAN I MAKE AN ASS OF MYSELF AND MAKE EVEN MORE PEOPLE HATE ME THAN ALREADY DO SPOUTING OFF-TOPIC BULLSHIT ARROGANTLY (HARD TASKS I KNOW, TAKE IT TO SCUMCHAT INSTEAD)

[mykonian]

You said you'd enjoy making your own deck, I'm talking to you about that in the most general terms possible?

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, I just don't think that's true fate. I just top 4'd a GPT the other day with a deck that plays, at most, not counting the land, 10 cards that people that were constructed playable when they first came out.

List of cards in the deck that people thought would never get played in constructed:
Nicol Bolas
Gristlebrand
Increasing Ambition
Fog
Rangers Path
Gilded Lotus
Omniscience
door to nothingness
chromatic lantern
alchemists refuge

There's tons of re-evaluation and innovation in constructed magic. It's not like you have to play certain cards to be allowed to play. The issue is that its a competitive event, and to do well you have to BEAT the cards that people currently think are good. That's the difference. It's not a matter of cards being forced out just because, its the inherency that you if you can't beat what is currently considered to be the best deck, or the second, or the third, then why show up at all? No one's saying don't bring weird cards to FNM. People are saying that unless you have some possible way to win with them, why bother to leave the kitchen table?

[Fate]

I suppose you're right, building the new meta takes innovation and creativity. I guess I was pretty unfair to all the frontier magic players.

But how many of those cards that you played are currently "construncted playable"? How many of them are fun cards and interesting combos? Or were they just a bunch of "powerful" cards linked together to make a cohesive deck?

It just feels like the meta wall is pretty high in this game. I can't just think a deck through, think it has a decent purpose and mana curve, and go to play standard. I get looked at funny and go "lol, that entire deck is countered by this card that everyone and their sister has in their decks. l2standard"

And thats a little depressing. Reck got my hopes up when he said "any card can be good and made to work in the right circumstance" but I've found out since then that "unless you have XX cards if youre in XX colors you might as well not even come TROLOOL"

and meh. This is turning into a casual/hardcore debate sort of and its not worth going into. I probably won't ever be "good" enough at this game or serious about it to be making breakingly sexy new decks that no one's thought of.

So I'll settle for making less than viable decks no one's thought of and seeing if they win sometimes or not <_<

[Thestatusquo]

I mean... The deck wins by casting omnicience, then casting increasing ambition for temporal mastery. Casting that. Untapping and taking your second turn, flashing back increasing ambition for door to nothingness and a second temporal mastery, then casting them both, untapping and winning by door to nothingnessing your opponent ater taking three turns in a row. Fun cards and interesting combos. Nah. The deck is not about those things at all....

Also of note, I would say that the idea that somehow "fun" and "powerful" are different things is just a strange one to me. To me, fun is winning. I have a preference for winning in a certain way (I am well known for my love of really bad combo) but at the end of the day it is more fun to win than it is to lose. The two things are inseperable. Therefore the statement "I played this deck just to have fun, I wasn't expecting to win" doesn't make sense to me. If you're not trying to win, GTFO out of tournaments and play at home with your friends, for fun.

Reck is completely wrong about that statement. Not every card can be good. This should be obvious. In a pool of 100 different actions, obviously there are going to be some good actions some middling actions and some terrible actions. That doesn't mean a) That you have to always make the actions others think are best. You just have to be able to beat them. That doesn't mean others are always right about what actions are good and which ones are bad. Travis Woo's dominance with Living End.dec in extended is a perfect example of that. It's not like you're being hated out specifically. It's just that its a truism that if there is a competitive environment, people are going to try to win, and they are going to try to do so by playing what is best. If you don't know what that is and you don't know how to beat it, then that is your fault, not theirs.

[Gammagooey]

I have the most fun in magic playing a deck I created with a theme that I enjoy and making it viable.

This is pretty much what I did with my werewolf deck- I don't really like spending money on magic except for drafts so I just took one of the only big money cards I got from drafting (huntmaster of the fells) and put together a deck that would use its colors, and wound up just slowly making it better when I could find a few cards super cheap that I could throw in that would improve it. It's not very good against other aggressive decks but it's really fun to play and it's still good enough to win a pretty decent amount against the Scumhaus decks.

[Sudo_Nym]

In my experience that there are decks that are fun, and decks that win. Playing a deck that's fun is better than playing a deck that wins, but winning with a deck that can win is better than losing with a deck that's merely fun. Winning is what makes things fun, and especially so when you're paying to be in the tournament.

[Thestatusquo]

I just wouldn't try to beat four knights game with "moving pawns at random" is all I am saying

[Sudo_Nym]

Well, it's always entirely possible that there's some as yet undiscovered synergy that could make a good deck from previously unplayed cards- Omnidoor is proof enough of that. And if somebody wants to play around with a brew and try and make something happen, that's always cool. I wouldn't try to take it to a tourney until I was sure I'd found something that works, though.

[xRECKONERx]

I also don't think the implications of what I said were "any card can work in the right circumstance" in a Standard sense...we were doing drafts and people kept asking me if X card was good or not, and without knowing their decks, the best advice I could offer was that it varies based on circumstance.

[Fate]

I never disagreed that people should go to touraments with their a-game and trying to win...

I was merely saying the format of magic I found the most fun, which is what gamma referred to.

that's all

[InflatablePie]

We should organize a game of Chaos Magic the next time the Commune's Planeswalkers are assembled.

[xRECKONERx]

in

[GreyICE]

Look, Fate, here's the question you have to ask yourself when making a deck and you actually intend to win.

"Am I doing this because I'm making a deck that will win the game, or am I doing this because 'I want to be different.'"

If at any point you find yourself putting in a card that is worse because 'everyone uses card X' then you're not playing to win. You can be doing all sorts of things, but you're not playing to win.

Look, you play League of Legends. You can build ADC LeBlanc, right? Berserker Greaves, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, etc. ADC LeBlanc. It's different. It's unique. It's not like all the other things that other people play. Of course you could be playing a real ADC like Caitlyn, Ezreal, or Vayne, but hey, you've got ADC LeBlanc.

Now MtG, to be fair, is not a team game, and you can only have your own goals when playing. So play for what you want. If you want to play your own decks to be different, go for it. But if you're avoiding cards because everyone uses them, you're playing the MtG version of ADC LeBlanc.

[Sudo_Nym]

Here's the deck I'm currently running in pauper. I'd really like some feedback, since I'm hoping to start playing in events:

7 Island
5 Mountain
3 Izzet Guildgate
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Prophetic Prism

1 Mnemonic Wall
4 Mulldrifter
2 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Ulamog's Crusher

2 Mystical Teachings
4 Preordain
2 Compulsive Research
1 Mysteries of the Deep
3 Flame Slash
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrickery
1 Electrostatic Bolt
1 Harvest Pyre
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Staggershock
1 Magma Spray
1 Prohibit
1 Deprive
1 Condescend
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Capsize

Sideboard
4 Earth Rift
3 Hindering Touch
3 Dispel
1 Electrickery
4 Curfew

I've got a lot of 1-ofs in the main to tutor for with Teachings, and what I think is a reasonably large removal package. 1x Electrostatic Bolt instead of the 4th Flame Slash so I can grab it with Teachings. Ghostly Flicker is capable of some mean tricks. Sideboard is a little weak, since I couldn't afford the Blue and Red blasts, but Curfew does a number against Infect, Stompy and Aura Stompy, and Earth Rift for the mirror.

[bv310]

2 things come to mind:

1) You're a bad person.

2) If you want to run a toolbox, I'd go to at least 3 Teachings, if not 4.

[Gammagooey]

ignore bitches have fun

also a 1G enchantment for delayed get a counter on all your dudes every turn would be super broken, people play cathar's crusade and something that similar for 2 mana would have the shit played out of it with stuff like champion of lambholt or regenerating creatures plus rancor