Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

p.edit - this mock lynch is the stupidest thing I ever heard

3rd time I've heard people call it stupid. Other two times it worked and broke the game in one (with the chance of winning being about 90 percent after 1 night when actions were calculated) with another factor and in the second town got nominated for best town afterwards. It works since it's done by a town vig and not another mafia (mainly since mafia vig is very bad for balance and beyond that if it is a mafia vig and they don't shoot the person the town chooses that confirms mafia has a vig). SK with the way cards were sent out randomly doesn't work. His power is way too swingy and for a one man player would mess things up a ton. The only non town vig kill theory that works decently is two scum teams except why would spice be killed by scum.

Cheery I want your opinion on the mock lynch. You saw what it did in homestuck (yes I realize it was just directed without a complete mock lynch but without the vig being claimed making it clear works better with a similar effect).

Or jake he fake claimed watcher since that's more of a town pr then tracker generally and forgot that in the second claim. Issue fixed.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery I want your opinion on the mock lynch. You saw what it did in homestuck (yes I realize it was just directed without a complete mock lynch but without the vig being claimed making it clear works better with a similar effect).

I only saw an attempted town voting block done, nothing about mock lynches. Considering I was killed my you with this approach, I don't trust it at all.
I would rather any vig claimed or not to be able to make up their own mind and not have to follow a mock lynch.
Or were you talking about when they had leashed you as an SK? Yeah I would have been for your death straight away and not the directing a second kill for town, double day is for games designed to use it, not just any with a possible vig.
I'm fairly sure town would still have won in Mafiastuck with or without or acting as a second kill, it just meant town was able to win quicker.

[Mehdi2277]

Town winning quicker kind shows it helped. Day 2's kill was never really leashed (the one that hit you). And anyways it removes the person that people would have wanted to lynch anyway.

[Mehdi2277]

Kills after that on sanjay and dgb were both leashed and fine. Three vig kills leashed (with the first that's arguable) and two caused scum deaths and was somehow bad.

[Cheery Dog]

Kills after that on sanjay and dgb were both leashed and fine. Three vig kills leashed (with the first that's arguable) and two caused scum deaths and was somehow bad.

The sanjay death doesn't mean anything, he only lived through the day because you had decided that's where you wanted your kill.
Being "vigged" wasn't the only thing that would have made DGB die, and killing the lynchable means that we don't get any analysis for why they choose their night actions.
Not all scum are as easy to identify as the remainder of the midnight crew were.
Both methods can win or lose a game for someone, and I'd rather everyone be accountable for their own night actions.

[Lord Mhork]

p.edit - this mock lynch is the stupidest thing I ever heard

3rd time I've heard people call it stupid. Other two times it worked and broke the game in one (with the chance of winning being about 90 percent after 1 night when actions were calculated) with another factor and in the second town got nominated for best town afterwards. It works since it's done by a town vig and not another mafia (mainly since mafia vig is very bad for balance and beyond that if it is a mafia vig and they don't shoot the person the town chooses that confirms mafia has a vig). SK with the way cards were sent out randomly doesn't work. His power is way too swingy and for a one man player would mess things up a ton. The only non town vig kill theory that works decently is two scum teams except why would spice be killed by scum.

Cheery I want your opinion on the mock lynch. You saw what it did in homestuck (yes I realize it was just directed without a complete mock lynch but without the vig being claimed making it clear works better with a similar effect).

Or jake he fake claimed watcher since that's more of a town pr then tracker generally and forgot that in the second claim. Issue fixed.

It's ridiculous because you're making way too many assumptions right now. You're assuming there is a vig, you're assuming this vig is town, and you're assuming this vig is going to listen to what the town says. There could be a serial killer. You say this is impossible, though, because the cards were sent out randomly. Well we don't know if this kill is passive or in the cards. I've given my opinion. I don't think it's a card power because then it would be too easy to have a broken setup. Scum vig anyone? There's not too much balance that can counteract a double scum kill, especially if they're distributed randomly. And your argument also makes for interesting balance for the mafia. Are you implying that the mafia kill card could be floating somewhere out there in the hands of a townie.

And before you get all self righteous about no townie in his right mind ignoring the will of the town on this mock lynch, I think it's a distinct possibility that it could just get thrown aside. What if we agree that the 'second' lynch should be the vig? What if we agree to kill someone and somehow the vig has alternate information confirming them as town or confirming someone else as scum? What if they just want to play their role themselves because they think they can trust their own intuition than that of the collective town? Have you given any thought to that?

This speculation is all so silly, since we can't even agree on

one

lynch let alone a second. >.<

[SafetyDance]

that's just it, he fake claimed watcher and later claimed it to be tracker so that means that he never had either ability, aka it's fake aka you don't have the tracker ability imo

what are you referring to about your role PM that CD backed up, I don't recall seeing this, can you link me to what you are talking about.

and as for the fact that you came out with your info meaning it's only town motivated, that may work for someone naive to automatically assume that but I have seen scum volunteer info like that before. Look at what happend, everyone has claimed. In fact you were the one asking people to reveal their info aka role fishing.

I am also not going to assume that both water works and electric company are both the same ability nor am I going to assume that they both are town roles. I absolutely don't believe anything associated with the electric company since lurker obviously lied about what ability it has.

Careful who you're calling dolt. From my end its you.

Interesting that you're calling Jal and CheerDog naive, I'm sure they appreciate it. I asked CD to backup what he said and he did (after your prodding, mind, which is interesting), you'd note that from my response to his claim. You kept hinting that you did stuff at night. You don't hint shit unless you're going to claim it. What do you expect? People to give you a free pass because you

might

have something pro-town. Yeah, just trust everyone because of what they might have. Put your cards on the table so to speak. I find it annoying that we have 4 soft-claims for a town aligned pr yet no one is revealing anything about what it is. I'm calling bullshit and it would be a lot simpler if it ended up being mehdi. Also, if I didn't come out with the info I have on mehdi we'd have gotten no where with anything.

There is nothing that CD claimed after me with the same role and result that I didn't mention before. If you don't think we both tracked and one of us is lying then you'd have to presume its him because he's copied/agreed with my claim. I don't want you to lynch CD either, I'm just trying to show there's no way I can be scum for claiming tracker with CD claiming the same thing. I'd have had to have known his role and result before hand. I'm not omnipresent.

I got a card which says Electric Company and I can track with it. Lurker claimed the same thing in his slip (a scum slip after all is the truth coming out right?). Since the Easter Bunny isn't in this game and Lurker is dead then yes, I'm going to believe its come from him. You should try coming up with an alternative theory if you think its wrong.

You can't really respond now to the end which defeats the purpose of reply I guess, but anyway, good luck with your surgery.

[SafetyDance]

Actually, just realised I can confirm (the remote chance) I wasn't roleblocked last night.

I was going to avoid this but since CD did claim who he visited I'm going claim another card role with a successful result because it doesn't really matter for me at the moment. I don't care, I caught mehdi potentially lying and if he's scum then it should be an easy win for town. I already had a target on my back for other scum during the night if true anyway.

I believe CD that he visited jal, I find it hard to believe a mod would let a person perform 2 actions but I have to assume he's telling the truth about visiting CD.

Aside from the fact that the mod did say you can perform 2 night actions, I can confirm it because 1) I did it myself and 2) so did Cheery. I did try to hint a bit I had more power in my cards and had checked CD:

Whilst we're wondering,

looking at the cards I have

, I think they are far too powerful if they're all like this and town has actual role alignments and pr as well. If we do have this much power then I think in balance scum could have something big up their sleeves too, like a double night kill.

That makes sense.

I'm V/LA for <24hrs>48hours if someone has questions for me and wondering why I'm not responding.

One of my original cards is a purple. Mediterranean Avenue and it allows me the Watcher ability.

So CD can't be a killer because Jal is still present. He hasn't (fmpov) lied with anything he said, even when it would have been easier to do so, or not say anything at all. With mehdi's rb'ed claim there's now no chance Cheery could be a scum roleblocker himself so I can't see him being anything but town too.

[Lord Mhork]

Hang on, so you watched Cheery, Safety?

[SafetyDance]

Sorry, I thought I made it clear. You know when you do something late and you're tired? I omitted the bit where I said I watched Jal.

Second last paragraph should read:

One of my original cards is a purple. Mediterranean Avenue and it allows me the Watcher ability. I chose to watch Jal because she was the one who found the scum slip

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not understanding this mock lynch thing.

FOS: Mehndi

His defense seems to be unraveling. I may change my vote soon.

[Mehdi2277]

My defense is what? My defense unraveling is a very vague way to try to fos me.

The mock lynch is simple. Treat the lynch like a double day. 2:7 double day is fairly balanced while 2:7 mountanious is scum sided. Cheery there's no point in making a vig "accountable". They're already going to shoot who they suspect but shooting people the town suspects as a whole means a. scum dies b. the next mislynch dies. Cheery if you read most of the late discussion people argued to keep me alive as confirmed scum just to use my kill as a second lynch.

I'm implying I have a decent idea of what set ups don't work. Scum having extra kills is really powerful so the easiest option is just a vig that's not associated with a card given to town. Roles have specifically been vanilla + cards. SK isn't impossible but baby spice sucks as a SK kill and it's better to assume the player who shot her is competent and not dumb.

Mhork while it's a mock lynch it still inflicts death and similar to most deaths it'd end up having a claim along with any connected info. I've seen it work successfully twice.

Safety that are powers that just don't want to claim. It'll be obvious why I don't want to claim if I do, so for now unless I'm about to be lynched I'll stay quiet on my role power.

[guille2015]

I'm all caught up. (Kinda, I'm in 1049, but I think its enough for this post to go through) Had to read sporadically but it was a fun read. Let's see, I'm not going to give a big wall on everyhting, So, I'll just post my notes that I wrote.

GNR's death flavor tends to be related to the acting party based on actual flavor. Gun tends to be vig/mafia, Knife tends to be SK/maybe mafia, and if you are flattened, it's a giant, squirrel run robot. Consider the possibility that there might be an SK and that the mafia action was either blocked or protected. Not enough evidence for this yet, though.

Mehdi

: I've got a town read on him since early in the game. Him being seen staying home when he used a chance card, then needs confirmation from the mod. This lowers my read on him, but not enough to get a vote on him yet. You'll see why later.

SC/Cheery

: I started with a scummy read, then that turned town. Post 356 is questioning the claim,then proceeds to direct the votes to Lurker and I think that that in itself is enough to clear him. Cheery dog got his vote remove at the end of the day, Don't know what to think from that.

Mogadish/TBG

: His interactions early with Medhi and Lurker made me think he is Town. However, I need to refresh my mind as to why I think that. Given that I have a townread on TBG when he came in, this will be low priority.

Jal

: Town. Per reasons already mentioned, but she brought the attention to Lurker that got him to claim.

LM

: I've got him as town here. For him to be scum, he'd have to fake post 689 very well.

Robert/safety

: I've labeled as scummy for mostly 181. 980: It makes me wonder, that would mean that he received that card from Lurker. Lurker had two cards. I received one of them. He lied about the electric being a tracker. but he then admitted to being scum rather than saying that he misread.

If someone else received a card at the end of the day other than Safety, then Safety had the Electric card prior Lurker being lynched.

Jake

: I've got him as the opposite of SC. He also read as scummy to me and not noticing the slip makes me wonder. Although, I can understand skimming that post.

*Waves at AI*

AI

: I find him scummy to the highest degree. This doesn't read like his town play. 506 is the post that I would reference for this. I don't like it.

Xis

: He went all day one under the radar for me. I have to check that out. I don't like his cheery dog vote at day 2.

[SafetyDance]

Robert/safety

: I've labeled as scummy for mostly 181. 980: It makes me wonder, that would mean that he received that card from Lurker. Lurker had two cards. I received one of them. He lied about the electric being a tracker. but he then admitted to being scum rather than saying that he misread.

If someone else received a card at the end of the day other than Safety, then Safety had the Electric card prior Lurker being lynched.

Oh yeah because if anyone else had the EC they would have kept it quiet? #980 was days ago, even the lurkers have read it by now, I would be getting rope burn around my neck right about now if there was another counter claim. This is funny too, anyone could claim they got the railway card, your claim of getting Lurker's card AFTER my claim of getting one of them, actually backs up my claim. You realise you could be counter-claimed too?

You and jake seem to have difficulty grasping things too. I'm going to give your intelligence the benefit of the doubt and say at least one of you is (or was in jake's case) is being obtuse on purpose. So I've noted that.

You are implying way too many things. You're implying that the tracker-slip wasn't the truth after lying about it being the tracker. You're implying the watcher was the true claim? You're implying that CD is lying too in his Utility claim and night result.

Also, you can't get mod to confirm night actions, absurd.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery there's no point in making a vig "accountable". They're already going to shoot who they suspect but shooting people the town suspects as a whole means a. scum dies b. the next mislynch dies. Cheery if you read most of the late discussion people argued to keep me alive as confirmed scum just to use my kill as a second lynch.

I did read it and I didn't agree with it. I said town would still be fine doing it for a while, but otherwise nope. (and I seriously don't care what buldermar as the main face of who was arguing to keep you alive thought as I'd tuned him out while I was alive and it continued that way after I died)

Robert/safety: I've labeled as scummy for mostly 181. 980: It makes me wonder, that would mean that he received that card from Lurker. Lurker had two cards. I received one of them. He lied about the electric being a tracker. but he then admitted to being scum rather than saying that he misread. If someone else received a card at the end of the day other than Safety, then Safety had the Electric card prior Lurker being lynched.

If this was the case, why did Robert not counterclaim Lurker day 1?
I think if someone did get antoher card then, the railroad would be the more likely fake and that numberQ had it before the Lurker lynch.
But I also don't see why Lurker would have lied about what cards he had.

[Mehdi2277]

There's another strange thing with the current cards. Two orange cards together give one power while one Mediterranean card by itself also gives one power.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

~Jake From State Farm replaces himself~

[Mehdi2277]

Jake I expect you to be caught up soon.:p

[Jake from State Farm]

May take a few days to read everything, anything I need to know before I re-read?

[Cheery Dog]

Would multiple cards of a set make powers stronger then?
I can definitely see multiple light "green"s making my other power stronger (though probably still useless when it comes down to it), but not really the other options currently given since they're already all full powered roles.

p-edit I take it your operation when well?

[Mehdi2277]

I think so since my power has an obvious way to get upgraded (in fact lurkers one card Mediterranean power is more useful then my two oranges together).

[Cheery Dog]

I guess since there are only two purples that works then and it does explain why some of the cards have the for now added onto the end of doing nothing.

[Jake from State Farm]

unvote: safety

But I have a question for safety, if you saw cd visit Jal, why didn't you react weirdly when he claimed to track UN?

[Jake from State Farm]

Surgery went well, still going to be in pain but I can't stop coming to the site, I'm addicted lol

[Mehdi2277]

A better question is why not suspect cd for killing jal.