Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[mastin2]

P-edit: you don't think Acosmist/Kise/MoI are scum any more?

Not particularly, no.

I mean, I'm not going to hold my hands out to them and frolic in flowers, skipping along in an unbreakable friendship...

...But I've lost my scumread on all of 'em.

Yes, I know, I have to die before lylo thanks to backing out of the 1V1 like this, but pending further rereads, I just don't have the conviction in my reads on 'em I had before.

When I do a full reread, sure, maybe I'll still conclude one/two/three of them are still scum, but at the moment, I have zero confidence that any of 'em are.

[PeregrineV]

Angry 3157- You are saying MoI making plans is a personality trait, but angry MoI is a towntell?

Well, I say that making plans to catch scum in-thread is a towntell, especially if they are effective plans with NO DOWNSIDE.
And MoI seemed just as angry about the Tammy-kill-whoever-town-votes as he does about Mykonian.

And MoI always come across as angry. If this is the worst you've seen, read some more of his games.

So, I disagree with your logic, as it doesn't seem logical to me, and your attributing playstyle to be either alignment specific or not (becuase he could be faking it, which means he's not angry, which makes him scum)

Unless he is faking all that shit about being pissed at Mykonian (hes not, and Ive never seen him this mad) then hes obviously town.

[mastin2]

Dang it. PV's posts do

not

make me want to lynch him.

Vote: Cheery Dog.

[mastin2]

Also, AP's posting exactly what he needs to in order to solidify the gut-townread.

[zabriel]

Seems like a fair enough solution. If there's a delay on it, it might happen at the end of a day phase like lover suicide does. So maybe the best thing would be for the messenger to target today and claim tomorrow. That means we get a full day buffer to allow the delay to get handled without mafia interfering in the night as easily as they could with a claim today. It's pure conjecture on my part, but it seems like the most reasonable option as far as I can see.

Mastin, why Cheery Dog right now?

[mastin2]

Mastin, why Cheery Dog right now?

'Cause I've literally got no one else.

[PeregrineV]

P-edit...........Fuck you. Your stance on PV is bad. You are calling him a 'strong town voice' simply because he is drinking you/Nero Koolaid. He posted nothing meaningful almost all of Yesterday and he finally pops in to make a scummy catchup post.

Then I guess you need to respond to 3149 in detail.

what sucks about my catchup posts?

I dont care what his opinions are and whether or not you agree with them. Quoting Nero's wall of random crap and saying "I agree with most but not all of this" is bullshit and posturing.

Good thing I totally cleared it up in 3138.

And PV is scummy as shit. His MoI push is just loosely sheeping your case w/o actually saying it and cluttering the thread with this argument that has already been repeated ad nauseum. Its posturing. And buddying to whichever of you/Nero is town. Hes ignoring my points about Nero/Messenger/Acosmist and just trying to look opinionated on the Acosmist matter.

My "push" on MoI is in the form of questions which I'm sure MoI can answer. I'm sure he appreciates you protecting him from me, but I don't really see why you see the need, or why you feel he needs the portection.

His only serious content today was to argue theory with me. Push MoI for disagreeing with him on theory. And buddy the crap out of you/Nero. If you are town, wake the fuck up. PV is probably not town and hes been coasting like fuck all game. (Same can be said for Zab too, really. But at least Zab isn't actively trying to look like hes doing something.)

Holy shit, now I believe you. So aside from arguing theory(?) with me and protecting MoI from my questions and not reading my posts or caring what I have to say, what have you done today?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV - 4 (Cheery Dog, AngryPidgeon, zabriel, Kise)

I'm at the top of 128 here, but seriously?!?

[PeregrineV]

We lose nothing by testing Acosmist. If, and this was at the time a valid assumption, Nero could test the claim (assuming acosmist is town) Nero dies and Acosmist is confirmed. We are at evens and that seems unlikely to change all things considered, so losing Nero does not cost us a lynch. And my read on acosmist is 100% irrelevant if there is still a possibility of him getting lynched as town in the future. Having Nero test Acosmist prevents that town-lynch and does not cost us a lynch. And if Nero is somewhat likely to get lynched down the line anyways, so if he is town it prevents that as well. And if nero or Acosmist is scum, then doing this makes even more sense.

Leashing Tammy would have given us flips without costing us lynches, and instead of testing Acomist PGO claim, why doesn't he just play and we'll determine if he's town from that?

Vote: AngryPidgeon

[PeregrineV]

@Cheery: IIRC I was under pressure in NY 159 when CKD called me on my fake claim and before you cleared me.

That was a different type of pressure, and most of the town were still reading you as town even with your fake guilty. I think you had rofl and ckd voting you before I came out that game.

I agree with this. AP, your play this game is not the same as your NY159.

[PeregrineV]

Jason isn't Town via play. This is his scum meta to a tee. I should know we discussed it in QT both times were were partners in the past (Newbie game and Zach's Large Normal).

It's vastly different from his scum play in Team Mafia (where his play seemed scummy). Do you have the games you were scum with him?

[PeregrineV]

Cool, I ALSO said that Tammy had to be scum because she wouldn't shot Ben. And I wasn't even actively prodding her to do it for town cookies. Go me!

There might be some words missing from this sentence.

You said "Tammy had to be scum because she wouldn't shot Ben."

Can you clear this up?

[PeregrineV]

Alright - I can be convinced to vote for Zab or Nero. I had Nero as Town due to his role claim but there are valid points being raised about his "x-shot" ability suddenly being spent when we have an opportunity to test it. So I'm actually leaning Nero over an admitted POE + OMGUS vote on Zab.

Intent to wagon jump?

C'mon, tell me WHY, in YOUR own words, I should vote for Nero or Zab?

[PeregrineV]

Forcing the messenger to claim right now is good if they are scum. If they are town, the right play would be to trust that they target Acosmist privately and then report back if they live. So, eh. Im all for having the messenger claim and target Acosmist. Not doing so is a scum claim from them.

Do you see where you want Acomist tested (because he might be scum), but are trying to justify anyone NOT agreeing to testing Acomist is scum.
So if they agree and don't do it, they are town and Acomist is town?

[Yates]

His votes have mostly been wagon jumps, when I'm used to hearing original case material from him.

Haven't I been scum in those games?

Alright - I can be convinced to vote for Zab or Nero. I had Nero as Town due to his role claim but there are valid points being raised about his "x-shot" ability suddenly being spent when we have an opportunity to test it. So I'm actually leaning Nero over an admitted POE + OMGUS vote on Zab.

Intent to wagon jump?

Yup. I'm still voting Jason for tactical reasons from when today opened. Of the lynches being discussed that have a chance of going through? I've narrowed it down to Nero and Zab with my preference being Nero. And don't give me that "in your own words" nonsense because I don't need to restate the case beyond what I already posted.

[PeregrineV]

Yates:

Why, exactly, is MoI town to you? I want more than just a short description here. I want at least two or three paragraphs, since with how strongly you're advocating it, I expect there to be a reason for that level of conviction.

More than that, I also need a lay of the land from you--a roadmap to who you DO suspect. Most to least, along with a description as to why.

Also, if you have a townread on anyone else in my suspect pool (MoI/Aco/Kise/Cheery Dog), you're going to have to explain that as well.

Also also, why have you been so quiet as of late? You were one of the most verbose players on day two, but like Khan (only moreso), your activity has been dropping with each day. Please remedy that; we need a strong voice like yours in here if we're going to get a scum lynch.

Sorry Nero, there's no way I'm answering your question. I don't like to have all my reads out there for scum to sort through. Feel free to ISO me - it's not something I do anymore.

@Mastin- I know you have Yates=town because something something AV, but the lack of pressure at this response is disconcerting.

[PeregrineV]

His votes have mostly been wagon jumps, when I'm used to hearing original case material from him.

Haven't I been scum in those games?

Alright - I can be convinced to vote for Zab or Nero. I had Nero as Town due to his role claim but there are valid points being raised about his "x-shot" ability suddenly being spent when we have an opportunity to test it. So I'm actually leaning Nero over an admitted POE + OMGUS vote on Zab.

Intent to wagon jump?

Yup. I'm still voting Jason for tactical reasons from when today opened. Of the lynches being discussed that have a chance of going through? I've narrowed it down to Nero and Zab with my preference being Nero. And don't give me that "in your own words" nonsense because I don't need to restate the case beyond what I already posted.

So you saying it's your town play to do nothing? And your lynch preference doesn't mention lynching scum.

I'll have to go look, but I'll guess you were for the Melmond, Tammy, and Esclouta lynches too, huh?

[mastin2]

@Mastin- I know you have Yates=town because something something AV, but the lack of pressure at this response is disconcerting.

It's worth considering and looking in to, since Yates's drop in activity has pretty much waned my townread on him considerably.

But obviously, he's not getting lynched today. Definitely worth a careful consideration day five, but not today.

[AngryPidgeon]

Angry 3157- You are saying MoI making plans is a personality trait, but angry MoI is a towntell?

Yes, dude. I dont see scum-MoI getting this pissed at people for trolling him. Its MUCH more likely to come from town in this case.

PV, you linked a game where MoI didnt want to leash an SK. And are arguing that this situation is different and therefore MoI should want to? What the actual fuck? First of all, its not really that different. Second of all, even if it is how do you know MoI should think differently about it just because you do?

And MoI always come across as angry

No. Not like this. Determined? Yes. Upset when things dont go his way? Yes. Outright raging and swearing? :/

My "push" on MoI is in the form of questions which I'm sure MoI can answer.

The point is that Mastin made the EXACT same points and MoI already answered them and then KEPT PRODDING MASTIN TO RESPOND THOSE RESPONSES OVER AND OVER.

Your case is the millionth rehash of the original one. Its the same goddamn case that MoI got upset at and threw back at Mastin. Yours is not different. And given that he is pressing Mastin to respond to his counterpoints OVER AND OVER I don't think MoI gives two fucks about me answering for him.

protecting MoI from my questions

Questions that he already made counter points to and keeps ramming down Mastin/everyones throat. I can probably find at least 3-4 MoI posts in which he calls Mastin out on DODGING his responses to effectively YOUR exact questions. Im not protecting MoI by any stretch of the word.

I agree with this. AP, your play this game is not the same as your NY159.

Misrep Cheery's post. Cheery said that the CIRCUMSTANCES of me being under pressure were different, not that I responded differently to pressure.

I was saying the exact thing Mykonian was.. That Tammy would have shot been if she were town. I meant 'shoot' not 'shot' in that quote.

Do you see where you want Acomist tested (because he might be scum)

No. If Acosmist is town then its still worth it. I keep saying that in the WORST case scenario, its STILL a good play. Prevents 2 MLs, confirms someone that cant be killed. No loss of lynch. And people HAVE been talking about lynching Acosmist (Yates, KK, Mastin) so confirming him as town is not a bad play at ALL. And if he is scum then GREAT.

[mastin2]

Hey, AP, out of curiosity, how often in your games do you wall?

I don't really remember seeing a wall from you, like, ever.

I probably have, but it's still not exactly what I think about when I think of you.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey, AP, out of curiosity, how often in your games do you wall?

Honestly, that is a question I dont know how to answer.

Sometimes I post just really small quips all game and sometimes I quote strip and wall post like mad.

I think I wall if I get behind in the game. Because I like to respond to most things. When Im feeling merciful, I read all the way up before I start posting and then just try to summarize my important thoughts.

I can point to games where I posted lots of walls and some where I posted like none.

[jasonT1981]

If I am playing to my scum meta, why isn't MOI pushing it more, rather than the odd comment about past games?

[PeregrineV]

Angry 3157- You are saying MoI making plans is a personality trait, but angry MoI is a towntell?

Yes, dude. I dont see scum-MoI getting this pissed at people for trolling him. Its MUCH more likely to come from town in this case.

PV, you linked a game where MoI didnt want to leash an SK. And are arguing that this situation is different and therefore MoI should want to? What the actual fuck? First of all, its not really that different. Second of all, even if it is how do you know MoI should think differently about it just because you do?

I linked a game that MoI and I were in that had an SK. That's what I said, and that's what it was. It was the extent of my personal knowledge of MoI and SKs.
Yes, this situation is different.
1. This SK kills in the day. That means her kill could be confirmed to be hers, not someone elses.
2. If this SK killed according to votes, which occur during the day and can be tracked and argued, then we have MORE information, determined by town, then we do with a normal SK.
3. If this SK, who is doing the town bidding, is nightkilled, it's OK, we are back to normal mafia, and that's ONE LESS TOWN KILLED BY MAFIA. If this SK was BP, then MAFIA WASTES A SHOT AND THAT'S ONE LESS TOWN KILLED BY MAFIA.
4. The SK in the linked game could gather and use other abilties that coudl screw with night actions. That was the mechanics of the game. This SK is assumed to not be able to do that, since she was already a DAYKILLING SK.
5. SK in the linked game killed scum that hid behind him, but shot town, and knew he was too dangerous to live. This SK shot scum early-game, thereby demonstrating either luck or scumhunting skills, but didn't shoot the town cop, even after he claimed a guilty on her.
6. The other game was multi-scum, this one shows signs of only one scum team.

So, no, really, it is that different.

I'm saying that if MoI can perform complex quantum mathematical formulas, that he sure as hell can solve 2+2.

And MoI always come across as angry

No. Not like this. Determined? Yes. Upset when things dont go his way? Yes. Outright raging and swearing? :/

And this means he is town to you? So I guess he's done it before, huh? So you'll go ahead and link those games where MoI-rage=town and does not equal scum, since that is what you are contending.

My "push" on MoI is in the form of questions which I'm sure MoI can answer.

The point is that Mastin made the EXACT same points and MoI already answered them and then KEPT PRODDING MASTIN TO RESPOND THOSE RESPONSES OVER AND OVER.

Then you can link that, too. Mastin had a million reasons why MoI is scum, so not surprised if he brought this up, but if MoI specifically responded to my questions when answering Mastin, then I'll consider them answered.

Your case is the millionth rehash of the original one. Its the same goddamn case that MoI got upset at and threw back at Mastin. Yours is not different. And given that he is pressing Mastin to respond to his counterpoints OVER AND OVER I don't think MoI gives two fucks about me answering for him.

So my questions went from questions to a push to a case?
Nice transitions on MY QUESTIONS.

protecting MoI from my questions

Questions that he already made counter points to and keeps ramming down Mastin/everyones throat. I can probably find at least 3-4 MoI posts in which he calls Mastin out on DODGING his responses to effectively YOUR exact questions. Im not protecting MoI by any stretch of the word.

OK, I'm from Missouri.

I agree with this. AP, your play this game is not the same as your NY159.

Misrep Cheery's post. Cheery said that the CIRCUMSTANCES of me being under pressure were different, not that I responded differently to pressure.

I was saying the exact thing Mykonian was.. That Tammy would have shot been if she were town. I meant 'shoot' not 'shot' in that quote.

So you were challenging Tammy, who was claiming town, to shoot Ben, who, if Tammy was town, had to be scum?

Like "Yo Tammy, if your Town that pop a cap into BenMage's ass, because he's scum." 3193 seems to disagree, but let me look.
1292 and 1353 state that "Apparently BenMage isn't lying". So you accept him as a town cop.
And you simulatenously, in the same post, agree with Myk:
"Yep, if Tammy is town I don't see why she hasn't shot Ben. 10 points to gryffindor Mykonian."
But later, Myk is scum:
2224
2251
"Anyone who still believes Mykonian wasn't telling Tammy to shoot Cop-Ben is not reading the thread."

So far, Myk is scum, and you are town for agreeing with him, but then he's scum for it, but now you agree with him again, and I'm scum for thinking he's town for it, and I'm scum for buddying [insert name], and Zab is town for buddying you.

Does this sound scummy at all to you?

Do you see where you want Acomist tested (because he might be scum)

No. If Acosmist is town then its still worth it. I keep saying that in the WORST case scenario, its STILL a good play. Prevents 2 MLs, confirms someone that cant be killed. No loss of lynch. And people HAVE been talking about lynching Acosmist (Yates, KK, Mastin) so confirming him as town is not a bad play at ALL. And if he is scum then GREAT.

How so? Assume the messenger targets Acomist and dies at some point in the future. What does that tell you? And how do you confirm exactly the the messenger targeted Acomist?

[PeregrineV]

If I am playing to my scum meta, why isn't MOI pushing it more, rather than the odd comment about past games?

What do you think of AP?

[pappums rat]

bump