Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Yates]

Acosmist - wtf is up with this?

I am a paranoid gun owner.

1. I'm not a PGO. I said that explicitly.

oh no, you just confirmed my PGO claim.

Why were you busting my balls for calling you a PGO - claiming you weren't

exactly

a PGO - then calling yourself a PGO again? Are we calling you a PGO or not because I don't want to waste time with more semantic arguments again.

Again, anyone not on Tammy's lynch when I called it - that'd be a fantastic pool to lynch from.

~56% of the player pool? Way to narrow it down.

Lynching a Serial Killer was part of your worst case scenario?

Was Tammy a Serial Killer?

Tammy was Fatman, Self-aligned Mad Bomber

But in the interests of avoiding a semantic argument yes, lynching a 3rd party killing role was part of my worst case scenario. There are lots of reasons for it. Read day 2 for all of those reasons. OR, shortcut to this:

We're in the exact same boat as we were yesterday. Only, now there's no cop, and now there's no second lynch. We're no closer to finding scum, because we have ZERO information today that we did not possess yesterday. We knew Tammy was a day-SK. We knew Benmage was a cop. We knew his result. So what, exactly, do we have today that wasn't there yesterday?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to direct a shot at scum right about now? You could make a case for shooting Myk and lynching Mastin all in one day and be all puffy chested and proud of yourself.

OR - scum might have been forced to kill Tammy last night instead of our cop and maybe we could have had a guilty waiting for us in the morning.

That's why lynching Tammy was a bad idea. If we lose this, my failing in this game will have been my inability to convince people that an Acosmist lynch was the right play late in the day yesterday. And that's something I'm going to have to work on for next time.

Getting paged. More later.

[mastin2]

Quick post; not much time.

Yet another reason why [Elo]’s a great lynch after mykonian.

Did I say

a

mislynch?
Make that

two

mislynches, and four days, and day six.
"Oh, myk was town? Well, he sucks. Elo's still scum, though, with Mastin who defends Elo."
"Oh, Elo was town? Well, Elo sucks. Mastin's still scum, though, so let's lynch him today."
"Mastin was town? Oh, well, nevermind on that whole 1V1 thing. Mastin was just an idiot who didn't know what he was doing; ignore him, please."

Mastin, aren't you speculating HEAVILY on where the scumteam is based off of wagon analysis from Yesterday?

Wagon analysis which we already had before the end of yesterday, yes. The Tammy wagon's composition didn't change at all from when I called it scum-driven to it actually going through.

Hence, why we learned nothing we didn't already know. We knew Tammy's flip. We knew who was on the wagon. What did a few deadline voters on her tell us? Nothing. The scum were already on the wagon, as I had outlined. Again. We knew Tammy's flip. We knew what her wagon would be made of. We knew everything then that we do now. Nothing has changed. The Tammy wagon was awful, and I'm lynching exclusively from those on it. In particular, MoI and Aco and Kise.

[zabriel]

Hey guys, I have been busy with training for a few days.

About Aco I wasn't really sure if I had enough doubt about his claim to actually justify a vote. Another night and some less than stellar play has got me thinking that it might be worth finding out for sure before it gets too late in the game.

My pidgey vote was basically just sheeping the wagon because I was willing to trust Elscouta's judgement at the end of the day. Today I'm not sure.

PEdit: I'm gonna have to agree with Mastin here. The mad-bomber flip doesn't bother me. I did think she was honestly a dayvig and there were some shenanigans, and her flip confirmed that there weren't. I'm not sure mafia would have shot her last night, but mafia would have shot her eventually. I think Mastin's list is decent, though I'd put Kise further down the list of priorities myself. I would be comfortable with either MoI or Aco. The absolute only way to test Aco is to lynch him, and if there's going to be growing suspicion, I'd just as soon get it out of the way and not risk getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

What awkward situation? We don't have a cop anymore. If you make it to lylo with Acosmist and a claimed VT (lets say Mastin, since he is a claimed VT), who do you lynch? Acosmist? Mastin? Does the PGO claim make any difference at that point?

Plus Acosmist is actually MORE verifiable than a VT claim if someone targets him. So wherefore do you hols this opinion? I know I argued this with tammy before. Fun fact: Tammy was scum.

[Elscouta]

Number of votes Elo has cast for Acos (who he directly calls scum) today (including this post) – 0
Number of votes Elo has cast for anyone today – 0

And? I have clearly stated the wagons i'd support if they launch, but that before voting i wanted to see how the discussion develloped between you and mastin.

Sorry to not fit in your "someone should always have his vote on someone" box.

@Elscouta: Read on Mastin/MoI?

Mastin: thinking he is scum overplaying his own meta (average confidence)
MoI: null read (pretty much because i'm too lazy to reread carefully all the walls of the last pages)

You're gonna have to explain to me how these are mutually exclusive. Heck, even how they could possibly be detrimental to one another. They augment each other.

MoI should be lynched, but if not, then I'd take a consolation prize of him being locked into a claim, so that he can't back out of it, as he's attempted to do with his 1V1 versus me. Yes, I was the one who suggested the 1V1, but MoI clearly said he was accepting it. And now he's trying to back down, push a miklynch (spelling intentional), and force the matter on us day four. Where he'll try to say, "Oh, guess myk was town, but Mastin's still scum", try to get me lynched, and if successful, get into day five without harm. And if I don't get my way, without having claimed as well.

Except that you paid the price of claiming for that. Which was unnecessary. You did not lock MoI into a claim. I'm not exactly sure of what was your meta between you and him, but there is no way that "oh i'll claim so you'll feel forced to claim" is a strategy that would have worked.

I don't believe that you thought your claim would bind MoI claiming, and I'd like you to show me why you thought that you claiming would do anything in order to fulfill your goals (ie: getting MoI to claim, or lynched)

[mykonian]

don't think I want a catch up post from you. Tell me who you are, because you are a big blind spot for me.

LOL are you really asking me for a claim?

No. Your person. Not your role. What are you thinking, what is your age, do you love your mother, everything you want to tell us, basically. Just who you are.

[Acosmist]

I don't want to waste time with more semantic arguments again.

OK, then I won't respond to your semantic argument.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did I say a mislynch?
Make that two mislynches, and four days, and day six.
"Oh, myk was town? Well, he sucks. Elo's still scum, though, with Mastin who defends Elo."
"Oh, Elo was town? Well, Elo sucks. Mastin's still scum, though, so let's lynch him today."
"Mastin was town? Oh, well, nevermind on that whole 1V1 thing. Mastin was just an idiot who didn't know what he was doing; ignore him, please."

Did someone call the WHAMMMMMBULENCE? I think the appropriate response is as follows …



--

@MoI: Why are you voting? Im weighing my options. The Zab ISO looked really scummy and his "Acosmist is still a good PL" reply Today was just icing on that cog-dis cake. Mykonian is my other choice. Elscouta/KK are light alternatives right now.

Well the first reason is so obvious I don’t know why you are asking … but anyway –

Because I have scum candidate I want lynched and voting for them is the number 1 way to accomplish that. Not a real difficult reason.

Up until I quote Zab in asking him questions today have I paid 1 bit of attention to Zab to be honest. He basically lurked through the stupidity that was “OH MY GOD WE CAN’T LYNCH A NON-TOWN PLAYER” yesterday. I’ll read him in ISO at some point.

My question I guess morphs into the following – if Zab is a slam-dunk scum lynch why aren’t you voting him?

--

MoI:

Why are you whiteknighting me?

Why are you letting zabriel slip down the memory hole?

I’m not whiteknighting you. At least by any definition of white-knighting that renders it a meaningful statement. If you mean me getting a Town read from your ISO and claim … then I guess in that context I am.

You have an issue with me reading you as Town?

Not sure what you mean about Zab in that he hasn’t made a blip on my radar at all until today. Sorry, I still haven’t read the 80 some pages in detail since I replaced in. I probably will at some point. Maybe.

--

But in the interests of avoiding a semantic argument yes, lynching a 3rd party killing role was part of my worst case scenario. There are lots of reasons for it. Read day 2 for all of those reasons.

Then frankly your worst case scenario is stupid IMO. But enough said on that front.

You could always just, you know, conventionally scum-hunt. Like for example – do you think every single person on the Day 1 mislynch was Town? Why not look at the reasons and potential motivations for those who helped the mislynch along and see what pops up there if you are ‘stumped’ as to how to scum-hunt.

[Acosmist]

About Aco I wasn't really sure if I had enough doubt about his claim to actually justify a vote. Another night and some less than stellar play has got me thinking that it might be worth finding out for sure before it gets too late in the game.

This is the weasel-wordiest thing in human history. And it's not the first such post.

Let's get to lynching this.

[Acosmist]

MoI: ISO zab and see him saying I'm a good lynch but never voting me. And now saying that maybe at some point we should think about possibly lynching Acosmist or looking at it because geez I'd hate to have a vote on him or anything, that'd be crazy.

If you want to lynch me, get on it. Chop-chop. Time's a wasting. We might lynch more scum before that happens, and that would be awful.

[Acosmist]

Also, MoI, did you ever SAY you had a town read from my posts? From my claim?

[Acosmist]

I'm also not seeing how Yates can avoid the DBZ logic of badplayYates = scumYates. Not that we have to lynch him immediately. But, wow. I nailed him day 1 in that. It'd be a shame if he didn't learn to hide that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The absolute only way to test Aco is to lynch him

, and if there's going to be growing suspicion, I'd just as soon get it out of the way and not risk getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

So Zab - I need to know what your thinking in regards to the bolded is ....

I can't tell whether it is Stupid Town or Stupid Scum. It's stupid regardless because Nero Cain is a proven Neighborizor. Aka someone who targets people at Night and establishes a QT with them. So as long as Nero has a living body (or two) to speak with at Night he can definately test Acosmist by targetting him and explicitly telling his QT members he is doing so.

If he lives (and thus Neighborizores Acosmist) Acosmist is clearly lying.
If he dies then whoever is alive afterwards can convey this to the thread.

The only flaw to the plan, of course, is if he Neighborizes scum who choose not to expose the information. But based on Benmage's kill flavor I'm guessing each death source has its own unique flavor that isn't duplicated.

Not to mention we have an unclaimed Messager who could also test out this theory (telling the person they message Night 3 that they intend to test Acosmist Night 4). And any other roles that might be able to test this.

So - are you stupid Town or stupid Scum who are not thinking things through?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, MoI, did you ever SAY you had a town read from my posts? From my claim?

You probably aren't reading my posts even though they are chock full of goodness so here is a direct quote for you ... -

On Acosmist – I scanned his ISO. He claimed PGO post 1 which is proper play. The name-claim is Null (Solid Snake is not guaranteed to not be a fake-claim). He will not make it to far in the game if he is faking scum as the claim will eventually be tested by some role.

The rest of his ISO would have me say “Town” if you put a gun to my head based my Town and Scum Acosmist experience.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't want to waste time with more semantic arguments again.

OK, then I won't respond to your semantic argument.

My question I guess morphs into the following – if Zab is a slam-dunk scum lynch why aren’t you voting him?

Mykonian/Zab are both equally good IMO.

I just want everyone to check in first before I start shoving one. And I want to see which has more support. The worst thing that can happen would be wagoning Zab and having some derp wagon (like yours) take off because the only people on Zab are me/Acosmist.
Meh.
VOTE: Mykonian

Not caught up. Like the Acos posts on skim.

[mastin2]

Except that you paid the price of claiming for that. Which was unnecessary.

Don't see how it was unnecessary. If I wanted MoI to claim yet I didn't do so myself, despite me being the one forcing the 1V1, then it'd not only be hypocritical, but incredibly stupid, as it'd blow any and all credibility I have earned. The claim was a necessary part of the 1V1. If there was no claim, then I could do

exactly what MoI is doing

, and weasel my way out of the 1V1 to avoid being locked into it.
List the scum motive for locking into a 1V1 with someone who does not share your alignment on day two. It paints a giant red target on you saying "LYNCH ME", and if you get lynched first, says to the town "HIS OPPONENT WAS TOWN".
List the scum motive for accepting a 1V1, backing out of it, and then offering not one, but at least TWO people to lynch before considering the person said 1V1 is against.
...Do I need to say that twice?
List the town motive for locking into a 1V1 with someone you're as sure as you can be is scum with just a VT PM. Ohwait, I already did.
List the town motive for accepting a 1V1, then backing out of it while still calling the instigator of said 1V1 scum, while pushing other lynches. (Yeah, I got nothin'.)

It's there. MoI said it.

Tomorrow if I am still alive I will definitely 1v1 with you. I’ll get you lynched and if you somehow don’t flip scum I’ll happily let Town lynch me.

I offered the 1V1, he accepted the 1V1. And yet, now, he's pushing mykonian over me, he's pushing El over me (said that El needs to die tomorrow, with myk dieing today), and might even be pushing zab over me.

He's backing out. He's specifically avoiding locking in. Again, he said he would. His posts even before I made the offer pushed for a Mastin lynch. (I got the idea from MoI's posts, after all. I forget which, but probably some on page 90 where he says that he'd lynch me.) His posts after my offer said he'd take it.

And yet, now, he's pushing me to the backburner.
His words supported a 1V1 yesterday, yet he wanted out of it.
And today, he's followed through, doing everything he can to avoid the 1V1.

Why?

Because he doesn't want to be lynched, which if he took the 1V1, he would, because I'm town and he's not.
If he were town and legitimately thought I was scum, he'd be all over me. He'd be pushing for my lynch, thinking that I was scum. But he's not. Instead, he's going for everyone BUT me. Yes, he's still calling me scum, and everything I do as being scum, but he's not pushing for my lynch. He's pushing for the lynch of my "scumbuddies'", myk, El, and maybe now Zab.

I repeat.
This.
Is.
Not.
Town.
MoI.

[Elscouta]

Mastin makes a point in last post. MoI, you claimed you'd 1v1 mastin tomorrow, but you are ignoring him now. Why?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mastin makes a point in last post. MoI, you claimed you'd 1v1 mastin tomorrow, but you are ignoring him now. Why?

Because I don't really care about a mastin and his 1v1. I basically humored him enough to get the Tammy lynch actually accomplished yesterday. I've already linked to another game where Klick wanted to go 1v1 with me.

Why is a 1v1 a good point Elo? What is the Town benefit if that is the only point mastin makes that you find 'compelling'. Because he has no role-based reason for his claim (since he claimed VT) and his case on me can easily be summarized as

"MoI is scum because I say so. He doesn't slip and I can't show any actual scum intent that makes a bit of sense but just trust me. I'm on a roll and always hit scum".

My response is - He's wrong. And I'm a better scum-hunter than him anyway so if he is Town he should just sheep me.

What is your read on mykonian and the fact that his reasoning for not supporting the Tammy lynch (up until deadline) did not match the actual facts of the game-state?

[mastin2]

Once more, this is why MoI is scum.
He's calling me scum, but he's treating me as town.

I basically humored him enough to get the Tammy lynch actually accomplished yesterday.

What does humoring scum do to help get a Tammy lynch? If anything, it only serves as a detriment to said Tammy lynch, as said "scum" is pushing AWAY from a Tammy lynch.

Because he has no role-based reason for his claim (since he claimed VT)

And again, he's treating me as if I'm town. Yes, I have no role-based reason for my claim, but if I were scum, I would.

(Off topic, but his next line is also a misrep, since I have been hammering home point after point to show the scum intent, to show the scum motive.)

But none so blatantly as here:

My response is - He's wrong. And I'm a better scum-hunter than him anyway so if he is Town he should just sheep me.

Again. MoI is calling me scum. He's calling me scum with myk, he's calling El scum, he might be calling Zab scum, and yet, he's not pushing me. He wants me on his side, saying here that I'm town who should follow him.

Again. If I were scum, as he has claimed since I began pushing him, he wouldn't brush my attacks off to deal with "other scum". He'd be pushing me as being scum. He'd follow through on the 1V1 I offered, because from a town-MoI perspective, there's nothing to lose (since he's said it himself--he can beat me in a Wall War) and everything to gain (a guaranteed scum lynch from town-MoI's perspective). Yet...he's backed out of it.

He's avoiding the confrontation.

He doesn't want to lock into a fight with me, just as he doesn't want to lock into a claim as I have.
Again, there's zero town motive for his actions. There's pile after pile of scum motive.

[Elscouta]

I don't speak about the fact that a 1v1 is good or bad. Of course it's dumb. But claiming you'll go in a 1v1 then retracting your statement is the whole different thing.

Do not sidetrack me with mykonian.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't speak about the fact that a 1v1 is good or bad. Of course it's dumb. But claiming you'll go in a 1v1 then retracting your statement is the whole different thing.

Do not sidetrack me with mykonian.

No, this isn't an answer. I want one.

Why is the 1v1 a good thing? Please elaborate on your position and reasoning.

Why don't you want to make a commitment to mykonian read?

[mastin2]

Why is the 1v1 a good thing? Please elaborate on your position and reasoning.

Why don't you want to make a commitment to mykonian read?

Again, this is why MoI is scum.
His position is faked--if it were legitimate, he'd know the reason why entering a 1V1 with a scumread as town is nothing but good.
Why?

Do I need to repeat that statement for you?

Entering a 1V1 with a

scumread

as town is nothing but good.

If he thought I was scum, he'd be jumping at the chance to lynch me.

Nope! Let's go mislynch myk first! Then let's go mislynch El! Then let's maybe-mislynch Zab! Or if not,

then

entertain the thought of 1V1 on a day far closer to lylo!

Yeah.

[Elscouta]

Why is the 1v1 a good thing? Please elaborate on your position and reasoning.

I don't speak about the fact that a 1v1 is good or bad.

Of course it's dumb

Come on. I make a point about doing short post, you can try to read them.

I have no clue about the mykonian case and i don't have the time nor the will to read enough to get a good opinion on it.

Now answer my question.

[MagnaofIllusion]

His position is faked--if it were legitimate, he'd know the reason why entering a 1V1 with a scumread as town is nothing but good.
Why?

Do I need to repeat that statement for you?

Entering a 1V1 with a scumread as town is nothing but good.

If he thought I was scum, he'd be jumping at the chance to lynch me.

Nope! Let's go mislynch myk first! Then let's go mislynch El! Then let's maybe-mislynch Zab! Or if not, then entertain the thought of 1V1 on a day far closer to lylo!

Yeah.

Yeah, enough of this crap.

The bolded is a flat out lie and pretending otherwise is either the height of stupidity (which with you frankly could be the case) or coming from scum.

And for those playing at home - why is the bolded false? Because Town can be wrong.

I have a scum-read on mastin for his over-the-top chainsaw defense of mykonian (my top scum read) and his rhetoric filled and empty 'push' on me as scum that amounts to "Take my word for it".

I understand, however, that I can be wrong and mastin could just be being terrible (which, again, isn't a stretch). And if I am wrong locking in a 1v1 makes sure that Town doesn't lynch scum for two days if people buy into the 1v1.

1v1s are only helpful to Town when there is some reason to have them (like, for example, a guilty read). Otherwise you get derp like Klick who self-voted as Town because he was SO SURE of his read on me. I, of course, was a Town Powerrole.. Luckily Town wasn't stupid enough to bite on Klick's stupid declaration.

So the above is just empty rhetoric.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Come on. I make a point about doing short post, you can try to read them.

I have no clue about the mykonian case and i don't have the time nor the will to read enough to get a good opinion on it.

Now answer my question.

What question do you THINK I haven't answered? And why, if you don't have time to actually scum-hunt via reviewing the multiple mykonian cases, do you still have time to cherry-pick single points and continue to post about them?