Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Acosmist]

They literally had no choice but to have her dead, and it quite frankly

needed

to be by lynch.

The assumptions you have here lead to me being 100% confirmed town in your eyes. Do you want to walk this back or can we lynch you now?

Except, they don't. I've already explained in crystal-clear detail the difference between you and Tammy. Khan's already explained in great detail the difference between you and Tammy. Everyone off the Tammy wagon has already explained the difference between you and Tammy.

The points are there, in our isos. We lay out in detail why the scum needed her dead yesterday.

And we also lay out in detail why you're, in contrast, a very good lynch.

And let's assume, just for a second, that you're hypothetically town.
The scum can endgame a PGO. They don't need the PGO killed, least of all in the hands of a player who if town is a complete moron. They don't even need the PGO lynched, since again, the PGO presents no threat to them. As long as they leave the PGO untouched, there's nothing about the PGO which is a threat. The PGO only helps them, via town roles doubting the PGO claim and targeting the PGO, and/or the town doubting the PGO claim and pushing it through. There's pretty much zero scum motive to push for a lynch on the PGO, since again, the PGO once it's known to be a PGO is completely and totally harmless to them.

It's the exact opposite of Tammy. During the day, I imagine the scum

can't

endgame her, because she can still shoot. Maybe during the night, they could, especially since she wasn't bulletproof. They do need her killed, especially since she is a competent player who was clearly showing a town mindset. They could kill her, yes, and had we not lynched her, they would have, but because they could push her mislynch (AND I DO CALL IT A MISLYNCH!), they did so. Tammy had been shown to shoot scum. Tammy had been shown willing to play ball with the town, to roll with their ideas. Her role was already known and PROVEN, so there was no town doubt. She was an extreme threat, hindering them every step of the way. There was EVERY scum motive to want her dead, as laid out in my iso, among others. Tammy, once known to be a day-SK, was even MORE of a threat to them than Tammy was before she was known to be a day-SK.

The difference is as clear as night and day.

'Course, it's all pointless to talk about the difference between scum pushing the PGO vs. scum pushing the day-SK, since Aco

isn't

a PGO and is, in fact, still scum.

The lynch is the only way to kill Tammy because...oh no, you just confirmed my PGO claim.

How does that feel?

[Acosmist]

That sure was an obfuscatory wallpost in response to a simple thing - if lynch is the only way to kill Tammy, then Tammy wouldn't shoot me? Why? Because I definitely am a PGO? Well, damn, good to know you think I'm town.

This isn't some random hypothetical - it was EXPLICITLY PROPOSED that Tammy shoot me yesterday. 1. Tammy refused. 2. After Tammy killed someone else, some geniuses had the plan of keeping her alive to shoot me tomorrow.

Now, while we're talking about how scum-driven the Tammy lynch was (because man as town i hate lynching guilty ppl), how scum-driven was it to propose to deal with the SK and PGO at the same time?

Again, anyone not on Tammy's lynch when I called it - that'd be a fantastic pool to lynch from.

[mykonian]

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

[Acosmist]

Votecount 2.11

"From the moment we're thrown into this world, we're fated to bring each other nothing but pain and misery." -Psycho Mantis, Metal Gear Solid

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, Kublai Khan, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian)
Kise - 1 (mastin2)
WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, WrathChild, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Elscouta, Nero Cain, Yates

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

So yeah, anyone not voting Tammy here.

[Acosmist]

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

Where am I not doing scumhunting?

And I sure as heck am busy not being lynched! So busy I have

ZERO VOTES

! It's hard to be this busy not doing something that has no chance of happening!

Look at you, not posting anything game-relevant. You are special in the head.

[mastin2]

This isn't some random hypothetical - it was EXPLICITLY PROPOSED that Tammy shoot me yesterday.

We've been over this. Tammy was pressured into proving her claim. There were something like ten names being floated around as vig targets. Most of the "Vig Aco" requests came

after

(not before) Tammy had already vigged, as vig suggestions for day three. And

that

is what Tammy agreed to do.

Only, whoops! Herp derp, she was lynched. So much for that!

[Acosmist]

I could taunt scum some more that this is Alein Mafia 2.0 and, as before, I cannot be lynched, but whatever, let's actually lynch scum? Like zabriel?

Or let's start a hilarious counterwagon on me. That worked yesterday a lot.

[Acosmist]

This isn't some random hypothetical - it was EXPLICITLY PROPOSED that Tammy shoot me yesterday.

We've been over this. Tammy was pressured into proving her claim. There were something like ten names being floated around as vig targets. Most of the "Vig Aco" requests came

after

(not before) Tammy had already vigged, as vig suggestions for day three. And

that

is what Tammy agreed to do.

Only, whoops! Herp derp, she was lynched. So much for that!

You seem incredibly angry the SK is dead.

Good luck with that attitude. I gave you your chance to back away from it.

[Acosmist]

Hey mastin: bad or good thing that the SK is not around to kill the PGO for you?

Answer, go.

[Acosmist]

zabriel: I am scum or not. Answer, go.

[mykonian]

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

Where am I not doing scumhunting?

And I sure as heck am busy not being lynched! So busy I have

ZERO VOTES

! It's hard to be this busy not doing something that has no chance of happening!

Look at you, not posting anything game-relevant. You are special in the head.

Hey, sue me for wanting more from a day 1 PGO claim. Just win this game for me, will you?

I know I'm not the nr1 town. So I'd like someone I can sheep, tyvm.

[mastin2]

You seem incredibly angry the SK is dead.

Do I have reason not to be?
Tammy gave us two lynches. Nope! Not any more.
Tammy was the one role who could get rid of any doubt on the PGO safely for the town. Nope! Not any more.
Tammy was the one role who was more of a threat to the scum than Benmage, providing them with someone other than him to shoot. Nope! She got lynched rather than nightkilled.

Why, exactly, would I be happy that someone like that was lynched?


We're in the exact same boat as we were yesterday. Only, now there's no cop, and now there's no second lynch. We're no closer to finding scum, because we have ZERO information today that we did not possess yesterday. We knew Tammy was a day-SK. We knew Benmage was a cop. We knew his result. So what, exactly, do we have today that wasn't there yesterday?

Absolutely nothing. Tammy was the most godawful lynch I've seen in my nearly 100 games on MS. The nature of the game is an informed minority against the uninformed majority. The uninformed majority gains the advantage by gaining information. Tammy's lynch? Zero info. Benmage's nightkill? Zero info.

Why, exactly, would any town player be proud of a Tammy lynch?

[mastin2]

Hey mastin: bad or good thing that the SK is not around to kill the PGO for you?

Answer, go.

Need I answer?

That question answers itself. It's bad. So bad, it should never have happened. Again, the scum have no reason to want the PGO claim dead. The town has

every

reason to want the PGO claim dead, and Tammy was the

best

way to do so.

[Elscouta]

mastin, i'm puzzled by your 2278. You claim to be a super mafia hunter, and you definitely want to take the town leadership or whatever. It is very clear that you wanted him to hang yesterday or today. Given how your posts dripped of "you are locked in a 1v1 with me", i'd consider that you believe you have a reasonable chance of success. However, 2278 gives the impression that you would have satisfied yourself with forcing a MoI claim so that it'd come to hurt him afterwards.

Can you explain me what was your aim, and what did you expect (odds of success / failure, etc)

--

On the zabriel wall by AngryPidgeon, i'll wait for a zabriel reply. What I find interesting though is that there was a group of players that were ready (or at least claiming) to lynch anyone but Tammy. On the other hand, zabriel was not in this group. He didn't vote Tammy, but cherry-picked the counterwagons. It is way too early to start arguing about this, but if Ascomists turns scum...

--

zabriel: I am scum or not. Answer, go.

Ooooh this question is way too tasty to ignore.

Yes you are.

--

On a final note, can we avoid shitting the thread like yesterday with "should we lynch the SK?" talk? If you want, i'll promise to join for a 50-page-sized thread of full arguing in circles in MD after the game. Official 100% guaranteed promise.

[mykonian]

mastin, i'm puzzled by your 2278. You claim to be a super mafia hunter, and you definitely want to take the town leadership or whatever. It is very clear that you wanted him to hang yesterday or today. Given how your posts dripped of "you are locked in a 1v1 with me", i'd consider that you believe you have a reasonable chance of success. However, 2278 gives the impression that you would have satisfied yourself with forcing a MoI claim so that it'd come to hurt him afterwards.

Yeah, meet mastin. He's a nice guy and all, but talks a bit bigger then he is. Just get used to it. It does make him somewhat easier to read when you know who he is.

[Kise]

I'm down with that idea, Els. Don't wanna give the lurkers more reason to catch-up lurk.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ooooh this question is way too tasty to ignore.

Yes you are.

Number of votes Elo has cast for Acos (who he directly calls scum) today (including this post) – 0
Number of votes Elo has cast for anyone today – 0

Yet another reason why he’s a great lynch after mykonian.

--

nah, MoI isn't supposed to suck. It's mostly a continuation from yesterday. IIRC we voted each other then as well.

Myk when did you take up comedy? Because crap posts like this are HILARIOUS.

--

@Acosmist

–

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

Please stop feeding mastin and vote this. He could not be more scummy.

--

For anyone wanting to understand why leashing the Serial Killer is inordinately stupid Mastin quite succinctly makes the case why not in one line (it wasn’t his intention … but … )–

There were something like ten names being floated around as vig targets.

That’s it in a nutshell. 10 names all being floated around. Hardly a scenario where scum can’t make sure their input hits one of the Town (and there has to be Town in 10 names) on that list instead of scum. It boils down why leashing is moronic.

[mykonian]

the problem is a bit that some people think it's relevant for scumhunting, like scum would be on one side or another. There are games where scum leave the vig alive because they think he'll shoot town more often then scum. I think with a 3rd party here, it shifts even more. To me it indeed looks like we wasted a day's worth of pages on something irrelevant. I guess you could see who contributed most to the discussion and call them scummy, just on the basis that scum find it easier to talk about theory then actual scumhunting. A real shame that Mastin is town, or that tell would actually work :/

[mykonian]

and another post just so MoI's posts get a bit more body. Wouldn't want him to lack posts he can quote.

[mastin2]

It is very clear that you wanted him to hang yesterday or today. Given how your posts dripped of "you are locked in a 1v1 with me", i'd consider that you believe you have a reasonable chance of success. However, 2278 gives the impression that you would have satisfied yourself with forcing a MoI claim so that it'd come to hurt him afterwards.

You're gonna have to explain to me how these are mutually exclusive. Heck, even how they could possibly be detrimental to one another. They augment each other.

MoI should be lynched, but if not, then I'd take a consolation prize of him being locked into a claim, so that he can't back out of it, as he's attempted to do with his 1V1 versus me. Yes, I was the one who suggested the 1V1, but MoI clearly said he was accepting it. And now he's trying to back down, push a miklynch (spelling intentional), and force the matter on us day four. Where he'll try to say, "Oh, guess myk was town, but Mastin's still scum", try to get me lynched, and if successful, get into day five without harm. And if I don't get my way, without having claimed as well.

Bluntly, MoI can (and will) get away with not one, not two, but

three

days (plus a fourth of his predecessor) without harm, all the while coordinating with his scumteam, preparing them for victory, where he can eliminate all his opposition be it by nightkill or by lynch. MoI should claim, and MoI should hang.

Can you explain me what was your aim, and what did you expect (odds of success / failure, etc)

My primary aim was, to at all costs, avert the Tammy lynch. I failed, but my secondary objective was to get scum lynched. In this case, by locking MoI into not only a claim, but also a 1V1 which if he tried to back out of, he'd be confscum. (He did.) It had a tertiary objective as well--by locking myself into a 1V1 with MoI, I avoid my otherwise all-too-common fate of being the nightkill. (Most of the times, I'm fine with being NK'd, but in this game, if I got nightkilled, people would ignore the reasons why: because I'm on the track of the scum, because I know their plan, I can see into their heads and am hunting them down.) Since MoI is scum, he can't kill me without it being effectively suicide.

The same thing applies for today, by the way. I'm going to, at all costs, try and avoid a mislynch such as myk. I'm going to, as hard as I can, try to get scum lynched. I'm going to get MoI locked into a claim as soon as possible, and if I somehow fail on both objectives, my 1V1 with MoI ensures I live to push his lynch tomorrow.
The one thing I lost was any chance of being NK'd, since I'm now a claimed VT locked into a 1V1 with another player. (Risk.) There was everything to gain by locking this in, be it a MoI claim, MoI lynch, another scum's lynch, me living to push scum, and even giving me leverage to avoid further mislynches. (Reward.)
/Gotta go.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, Im at work. Cant quote-reply to everything.

@MoI: Why are you voting? Im weighing my options. The Zab ISO looked really scummy and his "Acosmist is still a good PL" reply Today was just icing on that cog-dis cake. Mykonian is my other choice. Elscouta/KK are light alternatives right now.

Mastin is creeping into my peripherals. Him getting hung up on the Tammy lynch instead of pushing full speed ahead is making me a little uncomfortable (Even if Acosmist kind of pinged him). Also this:

We're in the exact same boat as we were yesterday. Only, now there's no cop, and now there's no second lynch. We're no closer to finding scum, because we have ZERO information today that we did not possess yesterday. We knew Tammy was a day-SK. We knew Benmage was a cop. We knew his result. So what, exactly, do we have today that wasn't there yesterday?

is giving me the heebie-jeebies. Mastin, aren't you speculating HEAVILY on where the scumteam is based off of wagon analysis from Yesterday? How much stock are you actually putting in that? Because you sounded extremely confident that you had the scum PoE'd down to a moderate pool based off THE TAMMY LYNCH and what it told you.

@Elscouta: Read on Mastin/MoI?

@Mykonian: Why is Mastin town? Read on Zabriel/Acosmist?

@Acosmist: I asked him. He said you are a good PL today, knowing what we do. Which lightly contradicts him calling you scum. And totally contradicts him disliking your wagon, calling for a CW to Tammy, and refusing to hop on one until pidgey finally got a singular vote from Elscouta. And seriously, Acosmist is not a good PL right now. End of D1? Yes. Now? Not as much. So not sure why he thinks you are a good PL.

@Zab: Why is Acosmist a good PL? Who is scum?

P-edit: "The one thing I lost was any chance of being NK'd, since I'm now a claimed VT locked into a 1V1 with

another player

"
Word choice interesting.

[jasonT1981]

crap, forgot this game had opened. give me a while to catch up.

[mykonian]

don't think I want a catch up post from you. Tell me who you are, because you are a big blind spot for me.

[jasonT1981]

don't think I want a catch up post from you. Tell me who you are, because you are a big blind spot for me.

LOL are you really asking me for a claim?

[Acosmist]

MoI:

Why are you whiteknighting me?

Why are you letting zabriel slip down the memory hole?

Answer go