Mini 374 - Numbers Mafia, Game Over!

[Zindaras]

Random Vote: neongrey

To get this game running.

[Zindaras]

Hey, we have English people here.

People in my time zone. (okay, technically not, but close)

This is a good thing.

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Nightfall

Post more.

[Zindaras]

I'm not sure what I think is scummier: Nightfall's ridiculous 4th vote on Adele or the bandwagon on Nightfall that formed afterwards...

[Zindaras]

I'm not sure what I think is scummier: Nightfall's ridiculous 4th vote on Adele or the bandwagon on Nightfall that formed afterwards...

If a person's scummy, acting against them (in the form of FOSs, votes, wagons and lynches, depending upon the level of scumminess) is a pro-town act, surely. In which case, the only complaint one can level is that response is disproportionate to the original scumminess.

That's pretty much how I feel. I think the (really, really quick) bandwagon on Nightfall is quite disproportionate.

Especially looking at the reasoning for some votes (he's Canadian omfg lynch him!).

[Zindaras]

WIFOM=Wine In Front Of Me.

From The Princess Bride, if I remember correctly. Basically, one guy has two glasses. His own and yours. One is poisoned, one not.

Which glass did he poison? Is he the kind of man that poisons his own glass or yours? This reverse reverse reverse psychology is useless, since it boils down to a guessing game, eventually.

[Zindaras]

any vote is getting someone closer to a lynch.

However, the 6th vote (the one putting him at one from a lynch) halves the votes required to lynch someone, while the second vote only removes 1/6th of the votes required.

This is a big difference.

[Zindaras]

This game is going with the pace of an asthmatic slug.

Unvote, Vote: BlueSin

, for being eager to jump on the Nightfall-wagon.

I want more contribution!

[Zindaras]

Finally something that may get this game running.

As I (think I) stated before, I want more contribution from BlueSin.

[Zindaras]

I'm going away for the weekend, I will be back somewhere on Sunday. I'd appreciate it if I wouldn't have to be replaced.

Also, Sailor Jerry's not making sense. I'm leaving my vote on the lurker I was voting for.

[Zindaras]

I disagree with you there, Jerry. Ranger pretty much came in and actually created a viable discussion. I do not think that is scummy at all.

[Zindaras]

I'm not sure why I shouldn't vote Jerry.

The case on him isn't very solid (or didn't start out very solid), but he doesn't even seem to try to act townishly...

In fact,

Vote: Sailor Jerry

, for being very useless, asking for death, and not trying to actually catch scum (in my eyes). Which puts him at 4.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: 5, not 4.

[Zindaras]

Do you all seriously

really

think I'm scum?

Yes. I wouldn't have put you 2 from lynch if I didn't think so. You don't seem to be actively hunting for scum. Your claim does not in any way convince me that you're town. In fact, the circumstances under which you claimed only make me think the exact opposite.

[Zindaras]

Well, that sucks. I really liked Adele's play this game...

I've completely lost track of this game...

[Zindaras]

I think it would be a good idea for the other mason to claim, by the way. That way, we clear a townie, who the Mafia will have to kill at some time.

[Zindaras]

Naw. If the mason gets wagonned they're gonna claim anyway. We shouldn't force them to claim early. Besides, this way there's a chance they'll survive until tomorrow, and they're much more useful then.

Okay, I was just throwing out the idea (I like throwing out ideas).

Hm, I'd still like a little more than the 'I have reason to believe'.

Agreed. I want more than that before hopping on that wagon. If we rush into a lynch and Nightfall comes up town, Maz Medias can say that, well, he wasn't completely sure anyway.

Forgive my ignorance, but since when did lynch -2 become such a dangerous position to leave someone in?

FOS: pablito

Ever since people (especially scum) love bandwagoning right into a quick lynch. Lynch-2 is quite close to death.

[Zindaras]

I am personally of the opinion that Nightfall should probably claim, but I'd say that Maz Medias should decide, because, after all, he's the one with the information.

[Zindaras]

And isn't that benificial to the town as it -
a) gives us a read on voting patterns and
b) forces the bandwagonee to defend himself giving us more ideas to work with?

It's also extremely detrimental to the town as it wastes a lynch (I've never seen a speedlynch on scum, barring investigations and such).

I don't trust Nightfall's claim at all. All the Townies we've seen so far are actual numbers.

[Zindaras]

The latest developments have made me somewhat suspicious of BrizzyBoi, so I reread the thread so far.

Rofl nightfall

PS notice how people jumped on the nightfall bandwagon as well >_>

Based on the fact that this is Mini Neo's only post and contains nothing of substance.

Unvote.

Vote: Mini Neo

As RangerOfTheNorth put it well later (where is he, anyway?), this was quite hypocritical.

After (and before) this, BrizzyBoi added little content, and he also hammered Sailor Jerry. Now, for Day 2:

I'd wait for Primate to post, but any time after that, I wouldn't have a problem with someone hammering.

That's probably why I hammered him, no new info was coming out and there was no way anyone else was going to be lynched ergo... Stop! Hammer time.

He didn't wait for Primate to post, even when it was clearly requested that he do so.

Forgive my ignorance, but since when did lynch -2 become such a dangerous position to leave someone in?

FOS: pablito

He really seems to want a Nightfall lynch.

I think Nightfall should target himself tonight, and we should definitely look at him as a possible lynch tomorrow, but I also think BrizzyBoi is scum, and Brizzy's death could give us more information about Nightfall's information, so I will:

Vote: BrizzyBoi

[Zindaras]

To be honest, I don't really know what to do with the role. It's just a very awkward thing to play around, since it basically could be anything. Personally, I see it as best if you either target yourself or do a no target, preferably, from my eyes, a self target.

[Zindaras]

Ah, it appears I have misread there.

Regardless, you lynched him under suspicious circumstances. I found Primate's post...

The things I think most suspicious regarding the happenings of yesterday are Nightfall's pushing the wagon without being on it, and Brizzyboi's last minute lynch jump, which I remember as being without reason, and when I challenged him on, he stated something along the lines of "we'll see tomorrow". Lurking throughout the day only to provide a reasonless hammer post is not behaviour that makes me feel pleased with him. I'll wait for his thoughts on what happened yesterday before I make a real move aginst him though.

Vote Brizzyboi

...to contain some very good points regarding you. You never did what Primate asked you to do in the last sentence, you never tried to rebut his points.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: In fact, the next two posts you made where regarding Nightfall, contained no content and ignored Primate.

[Zindaras]

By suiciding he does confirm himself as Town. Though it's really just a matter of whether or not you see him as scum. If you think he's scum, you should say he should target himself. In that case, there are three options:
-He's scum. He won't kill himself, but instead he'll no kill and try to come up with some lie. We'll prolly lynch him tomorrow.
-He's town. He'll kill himself, and though we've lost a vig, we've also saved ourselves from mislynching him.
-He's town. He'll target himself, but his ability'll be different. He'll come out tomorrow and state what truely happened.

The problem here is discerning between options 1 and 3, if he survives. However, if he's Town, there's no actual disadvantage in leaving him alive for one night, because if he's scum, we can just lynch him tomorrow, and we have a good other lynch target (BrizzyBoi) today.

If you think he's Town, you should say he should target someone else, preferrably a scummy player. Of course, this plan backfires quite hugely if he's scum.

[Zindaras]

I feel Brizzy's case is the strongest right now (my post was merely an addition to the things you posted). How is that scummy?

As for the Nightfall self-targeting, I think Nightfall is very likely scum, because he's a claimed variable and I think that numbers=town and variables=scum is very likely.

[Zindaras]

The latest developments have made me somewhat suspicious of BrizzyBoi, so I reread the thread so far.

I find that above statement as suspicious.

Why, exactly? There was suspicion regarding BrizzyBoi. I agreed with your suspicion, so I decided to reread the thread to (in)validate my suspicions. That's something I tend to do when I find someone suspicious.

Also regarding "variable" vs. "number".

That's outguessing the mod and WIFOM. Can we absolutely be sure that the town is only numbers and that variables are anti-town roles? Can we be sure that by Nightfall telling the truth and not faking a claim that he is acting in the town's interests or that he's covering his kills?

Personally, I find variable as anti-town to be quite compelling. I have seen no reason to think otherwise (all townie deaths are numbers). While I admit that there's the possibility of an oddball role, I don't find it convincing.

Also, Nightfall, why don't you just ask TEOM right now?

[Zindaras]

I'm starting to flip-flop on Nightfall. I think he's scum, and neongrey does make a few good points...

Unvote: BrizzyBoi

FoS: Nightfall, BrizzyBoi

[Zindaras]

So why unvote me? Feeling the pressure?

No. I'm deciding on which one of you to vote, because I find you both scummy.

[Zindaras]

I'd like to continue, though I'll have to do a reread...

[Zindaras]

It is at your discretion.

Just as this is at mine

Unvote

Vote: Zindaras

Care to elaborate?

[Zindaras]

Zindie's plausible

I don't get this post. I'm plausible what?

[Zindaras]

I've skimmed the game again, and I have to admit my main suspects are still BrizzyBoi and Nightfall (His claim just doesn't sit right with me, and I don't understand why, of all people, he targeted Mert to try out an ability he didn't even know the effect of).

Pablito isn't even in the game according to the OP. We need to get prods on the people who haven't posted post-crash.

[Zindaras]

Yeah, I know, I read that, but it's just a horrible horrible reason, in my eyes.

[Zindaras]

You could've assumed the worst and gone for the least active/scummiest player. To be honest, that's what I would've done.

[Zindaras]

I still can't comprehend it, but I'm willing to admit that my mindset just differs from yours.

[Zindaras]

okay, BrizzyBoi confuses me, but I do like that Zindaras vote - since I remember why I voted Zindaras now.

I was too. Read a couple of games and compare town vs non-town. It's black and white. In this game he's town. Fairly sure.

I haven't played a lot with BrizzyBoi yet, so I don't see why this is so townish behaviour from him.

[Zindaras]

Blegh, I don't want to lynch one of my targets and pretty much everyone assures me the other is town. This sucks.

As far as I know, Maz Medias has posted in other games, but not in this one. So I'll go ahead and

Pressure Vote: Maz Medias

. I want Boo and RangeroftheNorth to post as well.

Though they're probably inactive and we should get replacements for them.

[Zindaras]

Well, at least it's good to know you're still reading the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Boo

.

To the pressure machine!

[Zindaras]

This just isn't working. If you can't get replacements for Ranger and Boo, just kill them off already. We're better off that way than with 2 inactives lugging around, and they might even help kickstart the game again, because this isn't going anywhere.

[Zindaras]

I want to get rid of RangeroftheNorth as well. Those are the only two who are completely inactive.

It's TEOM's choice, but I really would want to see at least one of them modkilled.

[Zindaras]

We're just not getting the replacements. I mean, how long have we been waiting for people to replace into this?

I'm not usually for random deaths, but this is getting absurd.

And I'm in full agreement with pablito on this. I can only hope the scum works with us for a change.

Or Nightfall could test his ability on them.

[Zindaras]

Technically, we could lynch Boo and test Nightfall on RotN (or the other way around). It could horribly offset us, if they're both town, though.

[Zindaras]

It would prove more useful then having them both mod killed though.

Why? If we modkill them, we still get the lynch and we free up your ability...

[Zindaras]

But then I would likely be called on to kill myself. Then we could be in big trouble.
Unless we find someone else I should use my powers on. Then again, we dont even know I can kill again.

Meh, you have a point.

Why are you so for a plan that would have us kill off as many people as possible anyways?

I'm not for it because it means we kill off a lot of people, but more because it removes the tumor that is the inactives, as it were.

I can live with a Boo lynch-RotN targeting. I think my vote'll stay on Boo.

[Zindaras]

I think that's unfair to ask for that, Nightfall. I'd like that to happen, but asking the mod to do such a thing is unfair. We either have to ask for both to be modkilled, both to be replaced, both to be prodded or etc. We can't let the mod decide his choice based on alignments of either.

I think that if we do not choose to lynch/"unknown variable attack" the pair that we ask for modkilling both. It might put the town at a disadvantage but then so is having idle players.

QFT. I totally agree with this. Personally, I'm up for a double-modkilling. It seems better for the town than a lynch/Nightfall targeting, since it doesn't limit our options in there. We might even get a nice lynch going.

[Zindaras]

Vote: Modkillage

I think that's a good idea.

[Zindaras]

Well, that's more than half of the town.

TEOM, could you please kill off Boo and Ranger?

[Zindaras]

It seems like a fair trade.

It also speaks for Nightfall. I thought all the Mafia were variables/non-numbers.

[Zindaras]

Speculation time!

2.Nightfall
3.Maz Medias
5.neongrey
7.Zindaras
8.Primate(replacing Mini Neo)
10.pablito(replacing BlueSin)
12.BrizzyBoi

These are the remaining players. Looking at Boo's posting, he voted Nightfall, and he FoSed BlueSin. Both of these give me a "real" vibe.

Ergo, we can strike out Nightfall and pablito from being scum. Leaving us with Maz, neon, Primate, Brizzy, and me.

From those, I'd pick Primate/BrizzyBoi as scum team myself.

I'd like to hear other opinions on scumteams et cetera.

[Zindaras]

Nightfall was a a really obvious random vote. Good to know that seemed real to you.

It was a Lynch-1 vote, if I'm correct. Fourth or fifth vote. I don't believe in random at that stage of a bandwagon. I've got proof from other games, if you're interested.

As for Brizziboi, have you even checked what I mentioned? At all? Seriously, do so, and if you still think he's scum, I'll eat my hat.

Uhh...no. Was there something? I'll go take a look.

[Zindaras]

okay, BrizzyBoi confuses me, but I do like that Zindaras vote - since I remember why I voted Zindaras now.

I was too. Read a couple of games and compare town vs non-town. It's black and white. In this game he's town. Fairly sure.

This is all I can find. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this.

[Zindaras]

You're meant to read some games in which he is town, and some in which he is scum, then put forward an opinion. Playstyle argument.

It would help if I'd have a clue which games I should be reading...

And he voted for Nightfall because he was canadian. Don't say that's not a random vote. And besides, do those games you mention back up the argument that the person with the extra vote on them is often town?

"Hey, let's disguise my totally not random vote as a random vote so I won't get lynched on the spot."

Only one game jumps to mind right now, and it's ongoing, but in my general experience, early game bandwagons are usually on town, yes. And the ones putting them really close to lynch usually is scum.

[Zindaras]

But I like being lazy... *sad*

I'll go and take a look.

[Zindaras]

Okay, I read a couple of games, but, to be honest, I'm not entirely seeing it. The games I read were 345, 341, and 327, and I used the Post Searcher to find Brizzy's posts in the thread.

It would be nice if you could point out the difference in playstyle to me.

[Zindaras]

Actually,

Unvote, Vote: Zindaras

. That speculatory/pairing post is absolute bullshit. You can't get a "real" vibe of any meaning from a mafia member.

That's complete and utter crap. I've caught loads of scum by looking at the interactions between scum and other players.

[Zindaras]

That's Lynch -1. Claim time.

I'm

1984

. As Big Brother, I can check role names every Night, except Night 0 (because I'm setting up my monitoring system Night 0). Night 1, I targeted Adele, who unfortunately died, even though I found out she was 7331.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Town Aligned, obv.

[Zindaras]

How'd you get that silly idea?

[Zindaras]

Proof being?

As for the pop-culture reference, 1337 does refer to the "culture"...

[Zindaras]

Zindaras, why did you choose Adele N1 then?

That's the way I use Cop roles. I investigate not top targets, but people I have minor pings regarding. I wasn't sure about Adele, so I investigated her.

I have a good reason to believe that Zindaras is dirty scum.

A good, ironclad, irrefeutable reason.

Mind stating it, because all I see is crap right now.

[Zindaras]

Well, that sucks. I really liked Adele's play this game...

I've completely lost track of this game...

Zindaras does this prove you're lying scum, because I think it does?

Active=/=Townie.

Also, it was 4 to lynch, so I'm dead now, you fool.

[Zindaras]

I counted 3 at the time I claimed, and I thought one more got added after that.

I like how everyone believes Maz when he just keeps on shouting "fake fake fake!"...

[Zindaras]

Your night choice does not match your reaction to your night choice's death.

As I said, slight pings, not thinking "OMFGSCUM", disappointed by the fact that my investigation came up town and dead.

I didn't think Primate's vote counted because TEOM didn't count it in the VC. Zindaras who would you choose for tonight's night choice if you were to get a chance to do it?

Well, my ability really only is useful for confirming or denying claims, I'm afraid, so I'd probably investigate Nightfall to confirm his claim. Either that or someone who may come in lynch danger tomorrow, so I can confirm him/her.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: When they claim, obviously

[Zindaras]

Apparently, the scum do have numbers that give them away. We're just not seeing them.

[Zindaras]

And even if the role isn't particularly useful for grabbing scum, at least I can use it to confirm myself.

I'm willing to find out someone's role name tonight, if the town wants me to, and then reveal it tomorrow, thus confirming I have the ability.

[Zindaras]

*sighs*

I will target whoever, whatever, the town wants me to target. If the town wants me to target Nightfall, okay. If not, okay.

Your theory states that I could say I targeted a scum partner. Well, that means that if I come up scum, you'll know to lynch the person I targeted.

[Zindaras]

True, but you might feal the risk is worth it to keep you in the game longer.

It's horrible play to take out a scumbuddy to survive, what, one day longer?

If you think I'd do that, it'd be a good idea to leave me alive so I'll out one of my scumbuddies tomorrow.

When I straight out say "Lynch X", I'm being serious. In response to your question, 9.99.

How?

[Zindaras]

How?

That's for me to know, and you to find out when your partner kills me tonight.

Stop talking crap, Mazzy. You say I'm Mafia. You're wrong. I'm Town. You have

zero

proof of this, or else you'd have said it before.

Your attack on Nightfall was related to his target, so if you investigated me N0 and saw me going nowhere, well, that's what I claimed.

[Zindaras]

If you were literate, you'd probably be able to figure it out. Oh, well.

You have only stated your reason was ironclad and irrefutable, not what it was.

And I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from namecalling.

[Zindaras]

It's not my fault you can't read. I didn't state it explicitly, but I made it known.

I don't see it, and I don't think I'm the only one.

[Zindaras]

I can't defend myself from ethereal attacks, and I hate not being able to defend myself. I don't give a rat's ass about fishing right now, because the alternative seems to be death.

[Zindaras]

Why the hell did you let Primate win this? It was sooo obvious. I could've recruited pretty much anyone

but

Primate.

[Zindaras]

Post roles? Also, Maz, why were you so damned sure I was scum?

[Zindaras]

Ah, so double rolecop?

Yeah, I should've claimed something else, but I was thinking about claiming rolecop from the get-go. Should've changed my claim.

[Zindaras]

So what exactly could I convert and not convert and such?

[Zindaras]

But I did have a 100% success rate? (I take notes of the roles I have and thoughts on games and such, so I want completeness)