Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Acosmist]

Your bullshit "Lynch her now! I've got a guilty! I'm a great player!" whinning is bush league and I've got very little respect or tolerance for your opinion.

How many people are saying to eliminate this smokescreen problem?

Your stubbornness is causing a cataclysmic problem to the game. The fact that you can't see how terrible is is for the STATE OF THE GAME to progress by not lynching her is astoundingly troubling.

We have over 20 pages of nothingness. And Nothing will change until she hangs. You will continue to stall game progression, for what??? NOT KILLING A NONTOWN memeber.... yeeeeeeeesh.

This is happening because the math for scum is terrible right now, and they think they can do something about it.

Let's bring this game HOME

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, this whole situation is getting absurd. Everyone is just derping and vomiting accusations into the thread because people are/aren't voting the way they want.

KK: Honestly, have you been able to scumhunt at all today given that everyone is just being dumb? Why would you start a counterwagon right now to divide everyone even more? Tammy is the only lynch that won't stagnate the discussion on bullshit like this in the future. As long as Tammy is alive, the lynches are going to be shit.

P-edit: Ya KK needs to die Tomorrow.

[Elscouta]

The fact that Benmage doesn't realize that "Tammy playing to its win condition" = "killing whoever the town wants for at least the next 3 days" is sad.

But yes...

You're also stagnating the game with an issue that will cause a total smokescreen for which scum will hide behind. Tammy will be a recurring issue, today tomorrow, etc until she dies.

This is the reason I'm not moving my vote today. Today has degraded into a circlejerk of debating the risk/rewards of Tammy and the debate itself is anti-town. Lynch her and end it.

That's actually one of the few reasons that can justify voting Tammy. It's sad to lose an asset because a bunch of people are arguing against what is the most logical course of action though.

[Kublai Khan]

Figured I didn't want to mislynch, and had a guilty. Didn't expect to hit an SK.

You understand the fundamentals that Mafia and Third Party are separate factions right? That one can't win if the other is still alive?

I understand your argument that the mafia will likely influence the SK kill-choice. But remember that we essentially get double-lynch days. Instead of Lynch/NK/Lynch/NK/etc, we get Lynch/Lynch/NK/Lynch/Lynch/NK/etc. That scenario is not in scum's benefit. Scum will push to lynch Tammy so they can target someone else.

P-Edit - @AngryPidgeon - Yes we can scum-hunt just fine. Consider the last fucking sentence above.

[Acosmist]

Benmage handle this

You could just quote yourself saying how Tammy will get banned for killing me, but whatever, maybe new words will help people understand

try smaller ones?

[Kublai Khan]

probably where Tammy already refused to kill me (it was proposed! Read the game!), so the set of possible worlds where the SK does not do what town says and screws up your whole retarded plan includes this world!

So how about we remove you from the game as the sole person she has refused to target?

Which is awesome because you've been scummy at worst and abso-fucking-lutely useless at best, my OMGUS-ing friend.

[Benmage]

Figured I didn't want to mislynch, and had a guilty. Didn't expect to hit an SK.

You understand the fundamentals that Mafia and Third Party are separate factions right? That one can't win if the other is still alive?

I understand your argument that the mafia will likely influence the SK kill-choice. But remember that we essentially get double-lynch days. Instead of Lynch/NK/Lynch/NK/etc, we get Lynch/Lynch/NK/Lynch/Lynch/NK/etc. That scenario is not in scum's benefit. Scum will push to lynch Tammy so they can target someone else.

P-Edit - @AngryPidgeon - Yes we can scum-hunt just fine. Consider the last fucking sentence above.

Ughhh I grow weary of this retort. But I'm not changing my vote.

I'm of the belief, when you can eliminate an entire killing entity, you take it.

WE can't predict the future. We don't know what else the game has in store. But eliminating a kill at this juncture, when we can afford it the MOST.... its the obv logical course. The bridge has to be crossed eventually... why risk kingmaker or some nonesense like that?

[WrathChild]

Vote: Tammy

Sorry, for some reason, I assumed my vote was there already.

The Aco lynch is sub-optimal at the moment. It needs to happen, but not now.

[Kise]

k, 2 more.

[AngryPidgeon]

Strongly recommend investigating KK tonight.

[Kublai Khan]

why risk kingmaker or some nonesense like that?

Why would scum risk a kingmaker?

[mastin2]

We have over 20 pages of nothingness. And Nothing will change until she hangs. You will continue to stall game progression, for what??? NOT KILLING A NONTOWN memeber.... yeeeeeeeesh.

Except, the nothingness won't go away because Tammy's dead. It'll be, in fact, the cause of nothingness if Tammy's hanged.
We already know everything we need to know about Tammy. Her flip gives us nothing, NOTHING, that we don't already have.

If we lynch Aco (who will flip scum), we have extra info, and we know where to go with it. We know the Tammy lynch was scumdriven (as Aco's flip would prove).

If we lynch Tammy (who will flip SK, as we already know), we have nothing we don't have right now, at this very point in time. Benmage's investigation will be wasted, and guess what?
The state of the game will be exactly the same as today, only worse, because now we don't have the daykill to give us that second lynch.

Logic.

[pidgey]

Logic.

Something you dont have this game.

If we dont lynch tammy I bet we will have the exact same arguments until the end of the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

If we dont lynch tammy I bet we will have the exact same arguments until the end of the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Except that acosmist is probably going to flip town. But at that point I would have support for KK maybe.

[jasonT1981]

k, 2 more.

And this, ladies and gentlemen is why Kise needs to hang.

Keeps calling for lynches with one line posts.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 2.12

"He was their friend, and he betrayed them. He was their friend! I hope he finds me! Cause when he does, I'm gonna be ready. When he does, I'm gonna kill him!" -Harry, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)
Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)
WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Nero Cain

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

[Kublai Khan]

If we dont lynch tammy I bet we will have the exact same arguments until the end of the game.

Only if you guys keep bringing it up. If Tammy isn't lynched today, you guys lost the argument and need to let it go.

@AngryPidgeon - You'd have more support for my lynch if your case consisted of something other than "KK disagrees with me, therefore scum". I've argued that lynching Tammy is in scum's benefit. You've had no counter except to attack the messenger.

[jasonT1981]

Alright folks, I am going to say this.

Tammy should not be the lynch today.

Tammy is in a no win situation as SK... we know that.

However, she also needs scum dead.

Let her, at the direction of town make kills and we could get scum deaths as well as lynches and THEN lynch Tammy!

[jasonT1981]

Its in scums best interests for Tammy to die today by hanging.

[AngryPidgeon]

@KK: No, there are too many unknowns right now and it really is a high risk / high reward scenario. The fact that the town is derping like mad over it makes it even less worth it.

But then WHEN do we lynch Tammy if not today? Are you assuming scum will try and NK prob BP Tammy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Everyone keeps talking about this BULLSHIT that Tammy has to 'play to her wincon'

She can do w/e the fuck she wants and shoot whoever she wants as long as she says "Well Im town, and I thought that person was scum. Im not going to shoot someone I think is town"

[Tammy]

There hasn't been nothing over the last twenty pages. Even if some people haven't been scumhunting, *I* have.

WC continues to be very scummy. I think he knows very well this isn't multiball, and is just spreading crap.

There are no unknowns AP, and I didn't VIG BC because I had stronger suspicion of Thad at that moment. If he wouldn't have written that horrible case or came back to the game while we were discussing it, I would have more than likely shot BC. I should have pushed for his lynch yesterday instead of melmond.

Of course I'm going to work with the town.

Oh also pay attention to some of the people on my wagon. Snifit especially has really done nothing more than parrot benmage today. He needs to be evaluated more closely. Pidgey is somewhat guilty of this too except at a lower amount. But I think that some people are going to be likely to be supporting him in hopes that he'll avoid investigating them.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: No, there are too many unknowns right now and it really is a high risk / high reward scenario. The fact that the town is derping like mad over it makes it even less worth it.

But then WHEN do we lynch Tammy if not today? Are you assuming scum will try and NK prob BP Tammy?

Pushing the idea that she must be BP and so we should lynch her is a

scummy

argument.

Everyone keeps talking about this BULLSHIT that Tammy has to 'play to her wincon'

She can do w/e the fuck she wants and shoot whoever she wants as long as she says "Well Im town, and I thought that person was scum. Im not going to shoot someone I think is town"

We lynch her if she does that. You understood that part, right?

[Yates]

How did I go from wanting to potentially lynch KK to wanting to give him a hug?

I understand your argument that the mafia will likely influence the SK kill-choice. But remember that we essentially get double-lynch days. Instead of Lynch/NK/Lynch/NK/etc, we get Lynch/Lynch/NK/Lynch/Lynch/NK/etc. That scenario is not in scum's benefit. Scum will push to lynch Tammy so they can target someone else.

So. Much. This.

And this:

1) Yes, Tammy will say whatever to survive. However she will also do whatever to survive. She's outed, but as SK all she has to do is survive. She will gladly kill and has no target preference. There is no logical reason why she won't play ball, bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.
2) DayKill choice will be done the same way as lynches. Majority.
3) Scum can influence the kill, but no more then they can influence a normal lynch. Town gets to double lynch.
4) Only flaw is that she won't target Acosmist, but he's been scummy as fuck, so today is as good as any to remove him from the equation.
5) Of the known roles, Scum have to choose between killing the Cop (who will likely be protected), a known SK, other lesser town roles (Hi, Nero Cain), or an unknown.

And to a certain extent, this:

Everyone is just derping and vomiting accusations into the thread because people are/aren't voting the way they want.

People need to divorce themselves from emotion for a second and talk strategy.

Now ask yourself, would you rather have TWO [effectively] Town directed lynches prior to night or just one? OBVIOUSLY we lynch Tammy if she goes rogue. She has got to know this. Ben, if Tammy is SK [and not DV] she would be playing against her win condition if she DIDN'T shoot as we ask. Again, even if you think she is an SK she has to follow Town just to maintain the illusion that she's actually the Town DV as she claimed. That is the ONLY play that will get her to LYLO [in theory], right?

I agree with the point that lynching her will answer some questions - but ONLY if she flips SK or scum. What does it answer if she flips DV? Do we lynch Ben?

To me, the best strategy is to keep her alive. I will vote her in the 11th hour to prevent a no lynch [because, ultimately, that would be the worst case scenario for Town] but I just don't think this is the best play. Can someone please give me a LOGICAL argument as to how killing Tammy would be a BETTER strategy?