Two-Headed Mafia 2 - GAME OVER!

[spectrumvoid]

Random

vote: ShadowLurker

I really should start compiling a list of games where I see SL. *waves to lordy*

[spectrumvoid]

Hey, I just want to point out that we can communicate with our heads in pms any time this game. Should be fun!

[spectrumvoid]

@pablito: That's exactly why I pointed out that we could talk to our other heads in pms. Some people in the post above mine didn't seem to know about it.

Wrong, bird. People are more likely to read pms because of this annoying popup thing when they log in.

My other head seems to have gone to bed. Oh well... I disagree with meta-gaming, by the way, since Glork is always a pretty much unpredictable person.

unvote, vote ambic

for wanting to blatently wagon. Also for wanting a quick-lynch.

[spectrumvoid]

Nice post pooky.

About the accusations against me: relook at post 35 and 37. The 2 people implied that they didn't know they could talk to their other heads. 35 didn't know whether his head was around, and 37 talked to his head. That's why I posted my comment. I said some people in the post ABOVE mine, aka BEFORE I posted the comment, not after. Think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

1 month? 1 month is short for a game that isn't a newbie or mini.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm busy for a couple of days (>5) rushing out a big project. I'll let my other head do the talking.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm now around. I meant to say < 5 not > 5 actually. And to whoever who thought I was lying about my project, I replaced someone who's been working on it for a couple of months, who ended up in hospital due to dengue.

I don't really get why SL is supposed to be scummy, for accusing various people. I thought poking at people to get their reactions was pro-town behaviour. I mean, reactions like sprontalic's overdefensiveness resulted from a poke.

unvote

I totally forgot whoever I was voting. And my other head seems to have disappeared.

[spectrumvoid]

Well, it isn't compulsory for newbies to play in newbie games first before playing in a mini/large/theme.

My read on Eon: a newbie. While that doesn't mean he's not newbie scum, I'll cut him some slack for now.

*good post* by STD.

[spectrumvoid]

Thanks STD. Where Eon went I am male, I'll now go: I am woman! Hear me roar!

I know you're already voting him, but I disagreed. That's all.

[spectrumvoid]

Eon randomly posts stuff that makes him look absolutely scummy. Kinda like Stevie. Also I can't make head or head of his posts. *grin*

LYAL. STD, since when was this your first game?

[spectrumvoid]

Mod

I haven't heard from lordy in a week. Can you please prod him?

I don't like the Eon wagon either. He plays like this everywhere.

[spectrumvoid]

Well, like what Iba said, you can reply to your attackers, then go ahead and attack others.

unvote

I forgot I was voting.

[spectrumvoid]

My post disappeared!!! Where the heck did it go? I also keep getting the 'CPU has exceeded bandwidth' yellow error messsage

Now I can't even remember what I said about Eon... *rereads* *returns*

I do not support meta-gaming. But in other games I'm in with him, he also irritates me a whole lot (as I'm sure I'm irritating him). I can't help but let it influence my judgement since his hyper-defensiveness is very consistent. But I've tried not to have too much an impact on my decision.

And here's exactly where I changed my mind. Before I thought he was just being newbie-ish, and was willing to consider that language problems might've led to some confusion about what he meant. BUT I don't like his responses to the accusations against him, and his defenses. And that's why I'm going to

vote: Eon

[spectrumvoid]

1: Can you tell us about your thoughts, you dont vote against me then
2: who do you suspect and why?
Then you act interesting, you tell you dont like wagon on me and fan but then you dont say anything that could make people find another suspect.
3: Plus i cant say you are active like most of players here, for example in 4 pages you did some [4,5 or 6]mini posts and all of them mentioned me. Im kinda interested in your oppinion.

numbers added by me so I won't miss out anything

Huh? I thought I did in my earlier post. I'll try again.

1:
First off, I didn't vote on you. Because I was doing a little meta-gaming. I thought you were just being your normal self (as in defensive, confusing, scummy-looking etc.) Yes, I did know that that didn't excuse you from being scum, but I thought that was your consistent playstyle. That's why I brought up people like chamber, who's playstyle is always scummy-looking, but is sometimes pro-town. That also explains why I didn't like the wagon on you.

2:
Who do I think is scummy now? You. Your recent posts and uneffective defences changed my mind. If you want, I can do a quote of them but I think you remember (since you are the one who posted them after all).

3:
As for activity, I'm in timezone GMT +8 which means I'm usually sleeping when everyone is posting, like my other head lordy (who has poofed.) I think I did mention here that I was rushing out a project, so my activity dropped. Check out any of my other games for proof. (except games where we were at lyol, or I was -1 lynch.) With my project over, I have been around. Also, I'd like to point out that there are other people with worse activity level than mine, who live in perfectly timezones.

Does that answer all the questions?

[spectrumvoid]

Try quickly. I managed to attract a few votes.

[spectrumvoid]

Sorry Eon.

Nope, I didn't suspect anyone before you.

As to why, I read your posts over and I find that I don't really think you're scummy anymore. It's mainly a combination of confusing posts and bad English that made me think you're scummy. But I won't unvote since we're at deadline. I'll go have another read and see if I find something new.

[spectrumvoid]

We're at deadline. No lynch is always bad. And if I don't vote for you, I have to vote for me.

[spectrumvoid]

To Eon: I honestly can't get a read on anyone else. It's because I keep getting messed up with the twin heads thing, but I'll work harder at it. Here's hoping Adele's PBPA will help

[spectrumvoid]

Abbreviated names would be a good idea. I keep having to go back to the 1st page to check who is with who.

I think no lynch is always a bad idea since a lynch will always help us to get info. This is regardless of whether we start in night or day. (Or should it be irregardless?) So I'm wondering why ambic proposed it.

It's interesting that you're saying Eon/re aren't scummy because he is using his confusion as an excuse to vote. I just don't get why you think that isn't scummy. Eon is just plain looking for an excuse to vote. He should've asked for a clarification if he's confused.

I figure the main reason for our scumminess is because of what I said about being able to communicate with our partners. I have responded to that already, and no one has asked me to respond again, so I thought everyone understood my reasons for doing so.

The next main reason is the way lordy is playing. You accuse lordy of playing with a detached playstyle, when many people here are also doing the same thing (hence the reason why we're at a deadline.) The worst thing you can say about lordy is that he's lurking, but this is a 2 headed game, other people have been inactive too, and I've been around.

[spectrumvoid]

EBYOP because I forgot to copy and paste from notepad:

I'm not sure what to conclude from the defensiveness issue. If a newbie is very defensive, I'm more inclined to think he's just making a bad play, and it isn't a scum-tell. But if an experienced player does that, I'll have to think harder about it. Then again, I haven't seen many experienced players doing that. Also, how do you define an experienced player versus a non-newbie (> 3 months old) but not 'established'?

*break*

Another reason for lynching me/lordy is because lynching eon/re will cause the game to languish. I disagree. Whoever we lynch today, as long as we lynch, we'll get better info, and the game will pick up. For example, if we lynch e/r, I'm sure everyone will be looking at the people on the wagon like me. If we lynch sv/l, everyone will be looking at pab + TSQ.

[spectrumvoid]

With Eon all we get is: "you sound scummy and I don't know what the hell you're saying so I'm voting you."

This is where I got the confusing things from.

[spectrumvoid]

If we lynch sv/l, everyone will be looking at pab + TSQ.

Every time I hear something like that, I think holy shit you're scum.

Why? I think it's natural to look more closely at whoever was pushing the wagon the hardest.

One of my reasons for voting Eon is the 'looking for an excuse' bit you quoted. You say my reasons are awkward. I don't get why it's awkward. I still maintain that Eon was looking for an excuse to vote. I disagree that 'that can be said about a lot of people', a few maybe, but most people vote with reasons, not because they don't know what someone said.

Just to clarify the last point: My 'whoever we lynch today' refers to only 2 people eon/re or me/lordy, I mentioned it in the previous sentence, but I think I didn't make it clear.

I'll have to a reread to get a feel on Bird/SL.

[spectrumvoid]

I did a reread. I'm currently undecided as to whether Eon/re or SL/bird are more scummy. My reasons thinking bird/SL are scummy are pretty much the same as anyone else's. (refer 460, 475). I also agree with STD recent posts. I don't think SL has presented a valid defense. I also didn't think it was a joke.

I'm leaving my vote on Eon/re because I am not satisfied with their response + the original reasons why I think he's scummy.

I'd also like to hear more from minineo/htf before the deadline.

[spectrumvoid]

Eon did you read this part (underlined):

I'm leaving my vote on Eon/re because

I am not satisfied with their response + the original reasons why I think he's scummy.

Thanks for pointing out you only did 3 posts. That's the exactly the posts I was referring to when I said I wasn't satisfied with your response.

[spectrumvoid]

How many hours are we away from deadline? I'm GMT +8, what's the normal one?

[spectrumvoid]

I seriously don't like the tone of SL's latest responses. And I did a read, I also don't SL/bird's other posts. But I still think Eon/re is more scummy. With a deadline coming, I don't know what to do.

We now have 7 votes on SL/bird correct? I think I'll wait for a claim from SL. Because so many people have gone to SL/bird, and there's probably not enough time to start pushing.

[spectrumvoid]

**** lost both cop and doc...

Think about it this way:
1) lordSV is scum, so they killed the cop because they were afraid of an execution.
2) lordSV is pro-town, scum killed person who was suspecting us the most to frame us.

I think it can go both ways. I challenge anyone to reason to me why one is more possible than the other.

[spectrumvoid]

We can guess till the cows come home, but no one will ever know what Ibby did...

[spectrumvoid]

I think trying to pick out scummy things and poking people to see their reactions is pro-townish.

[spectrumvoid]

I think trying to pick out scummy things and poking people to see their reactions is pro-townish.

and? what's your point? care to reference someone you see doing this, or are you just bring Captain Obvious?

This was in reference to the posts above mine saying someone is scummy for doing this.

[spectrumvoid]

Next up, spectrumvoid. Originally I didn't have much of a problem with her vote on Eon since I believe that reasoning also. I find it entirely plausible that she found some change in her thinking and abandoning the metagaming thing. But I think post 401 and 405 is scummy. If she's that sure Eon/Re aren't scum, why vote them especially in light of a deadline and risk getting them killed?

Here is my reason:

We're at deadline. No lynch is always bad. And if I don't vote for you, I have to vote for me.

Next point:

These seem somewhat contradictory. Would you explain whether or not you consider these types of statements (i.e. “they always play like this”) as metagaming, SpectrumVoid?

I've tried to explain this here:

I do not support meta-gaming. But in other games I'm in with him, he also irritates me a whole lot (as I'm sure I'm irritating him).

I can't help but let it influence my judgement since his hyper-defensiveness is very consistent. But I've tried not to have too much an impact on my decision.

A clarification: Basically, I do not use metagaming as a MAIN factor in voting someone/thinking he's scummy because of playstyle, but I do take it into account when the player's playstyle has been very consistent in other games. (Note: Yes, I've changed my mind a little on meta-gaming due to some issues in other games where it's been proven that meta-gaming helps a little.)

I agree with this.

Also, I don’t know if anybody else is catching this vibe, but it looks to me like Glork/MoS are coaching Eon/Re2 as the game is progressing. Whenever Eon/Re2 starts to get themselves in trouble, one of them seems to come to the rescue in some way (by either giving a distraction, or directly explaining something for them). As it is, I actually agree with Sprontalic’s original assessment on Eon: I thought his way of answering the two nightkills problem was fairly scummy, despite his “explanation” afterwards.

vote: Eon/re

I have other reasons for doing so, but that's the main one. More from me tomorrow if I'm not too tired after work.

[spectrumvoid]

Klebian is replacing my other head, lordy. I feel like I'm starting to repeat myself over and over again, but here it is AGAIN.

- I gave slack. And I didn't like the wagon because I thought you were just new players making a bad play.
- Then Eon/Re's post start to look more and more scummy, so I voted.
- Continued to vote Eon/Re because of deadline.
- Summary of last 3 reasons: I gave reasons for why Eon/Re are scummy, then I voted.

This repetition of the same accusations against me sounds like this: SV/K is scummy because of X! SV/K is scummy because of X! x100.

[spectrumvoid]

My reason for thinking you're scummy now is you pushing me on the basis of a cop investigation which never happened. I won't say much for now, since we need to give klebian (my new head) a chance to catch up.

[spectrumvoid]

Heehah! Wait a minute... I think some posts have gone missing.

[spectrumvoid]

I did have a copy... unfortunately my computer crashed during the MS crash.

[spectrumvoid]

Oh yes... but I remember Eon/re accepted that one. Guess I shan't do it again because I'm lazy. (I did save a copy of all the games I'm in, but my computer crashed during the crash.)

[spectrumvoid]

Wow. I totally forgot about that point. I went to do a read since I've forgotten everything, and it's true that M/G did NOT protect E/R all the time... TSQ lied.

[spectrumvoid]

Sorry, it should be PJ instead of TSQ. I skimmed too quickly.

[spectrumvoid]

Read my sig. I'll trust my other head to respond to anything.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm finally back after a horribly long absence. I was having some weird problems on MS.net logging in and posting (I was posting from the future), read the 2 threads devoted to my problems in the help forum for details. Thanks to those who have alerted people to my problems. I'll respond to everything tomorrow.

[spectrumvoid]

Glork: I'm with TSQ on this one. The site died for me yesterday too. (Well, I'm not so sure about TSQ's timezone, but I was having the error I posted in the wiki.)

I'm

FOSing the king.

If we go by that argument, we're assuming that newbies will never be scum. And I don't like TSQ either for pretending to believe that line. 1 page before, he was basically saying he wanted E/r to die. And a couple of posts later, because Glork tells him to, he changes his mind.

[spectrumvoid]

Gah. Pretend you didn't see the king bit.

FOS: Glork

This is what happens after MS kicks me for a couple of days.

[spectrumvoid]

Argh not Descartes! I just wrote an essay about him!

[spectrumvoid]

vote: Eon/fan

Same reason as MBL.

*yawn*

[spectrumvoid]

Mod: my other head hasn't posted in a week.

[spectrumvoid]

[spectrumvoid]

Yeowch! I'll check in with my other head for his opinions.

[spectrumvoid]

What makes you think klebian/me are lynch voting?

[spectrumvoid]

That's amazing... our replacement status I mean. I've seen games abandoned for less than that. I'm back from camp now, break-camp got delayed due to rain. And I agree totally with what my other head said.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm here. I don't have anything to add.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm sorry mod, but can you please post a new member list? Like a whole list of who is with which head, with the new replacements? Thanks.

[spectrumvoid]

Merry Christmas everyone.

My/klebian's vote stays.

[spectrumvoid]

*pokes everyone*

[spectrumvoid]

I'm around. I don't buy the defense, and my vote stays.

[spectrumvoid]

vote: Glork/MoS

Scum.

[spectrumvoid]

vote: Pooky/adele

Scum.

Glork/Mos: scum.

[spectrumvoid]

I'll check in with my other head first, just want to discuss something.

[spectrumvoid]

*nods*

I'm confused as to the speculation over the cult role, simply because other than a short discussion with some other newbies, I've never heard of a cult. If I'm getting this right, the main reason you're (a generic 'you're' here) thinking we're cult is because you don't buy our claim? Is there any reason for not buying our claim other than Courk's modding history? All I can say is, it's a pretty boring mod who uses the same roles each time.

Sorry to sound a little pissed off, but our role was revealed, and we're probably going to get killed tonight by scum... and people don't believe us?!

[spectrumvoid]

1. Was there anything I could have done to allow the game to run smoother, considering the site down time and number of replacements?

More prods. Nothing really could be done, maybe beg harder for replacements? I don't know.

2. What did you like about this game? I liked the mechanics. Having 2 heads was fun.

3. What didn't you like about this game? Being a cult. (nah, just kidding.)

4. Was the "Day X starts on this post" list in the first post useful? (Yes, I used it quite a bit.)

5. Was there ever a point when you thought one player was suspicious, but you didn't feel that way about his or her partner? (Yes.)

6. Was there ever a time you found your other head to be scummy? (No.)

7. Did having a partner affect your usual playing style? (Yes. Mainly it made me more hesitant to post without checking things over with my partner first. It also made me more conscious of what I posted. )

8. Did you enjoy having a partner, or did you see it as a hassle? (Loved it ^^)

9. Did you ever delay posting so you could check something over with your partner first? (Yes. Refer 7.)

10. How often did you talk to your partner during days? During nights? (During nights, a lot. During days, quite a bit.)

11. Any improvements you can suggest about modding in general? (I won't answer this because I know next to nuts about modding.)

I have to apologise to klebian for this one. I meant it when I said I didn't know what cults were. (except for what zindybuns told me, in a different game and we didn't mention this one at all.) I suggested our nightchoices, and my logic was getting scum. For some reason I thought cult would win if we got rid of scum, my bad. Possibly the first time in my life I was so accurate with scum-hunting.

Klebian did send in a night choice. It wasn't PJ.

[spectrumvoid]

Mod: can you post role pms up?

[spectrumvoid]

Pablito: About the underpowered cult, go look PJ's post.

I don't think the mod is to blame for the cult thing, it was just my stupidity.