Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[ThAdmiral]

I.e. I think he is being unfairly picked on for not playing well, rather than because he is genuinely scummy.

[snifit]

Continuing.

Nero and BloodCovenant jumping on Yates' #78 doesn't sit well with me. It's pretty clear he wasn't fishing for roles or flavor.
I'll be looking for Acosmist's elaboration on #83.
All the talk about PGO is rather tiresome. Big waste of time. Benmage is talking out of both sides of his mouth but oddly it doesn't move my read of him.
I agree with Tammy's points about BloodCovenant in #129. Good pushback from Tammy against Benmage. Reading town on her.
I'm conflicted on rapidcanyon. I'm getting scumvibes I can't put my finger on but his #160 is a solid post, trying to get into other players' heads. I guess I have to say town but I'll be looking for more posts from him. Interesting that he threw a vote in the same direction I did, and as a bonus he could even elaborate what bothered him about Shahrizai. Neat! Yeah town for now.
Ohhh well his pushback on Kublai Khan is bad but he's still town.
Am I a hypocrite for not wanting to read someone else's catchup post? Going to skip ThAdmiral for now.
Bored by the Jason-Yates play but Yates' page 7 posting made me less happy with him.
Apparently Nero thinks zabriel is a big deal? I don't even remember reading anything by him. Don't think highly of the noise Nero is making but going to give him a pass for ~reasons~.
zabriel's vote on Ben just looks clueless. Don't think zabriel's scum.
Melmond's #208 was underwhelming. Laaaaazy scum unless he came up with a better post in the meantime.
Hey, KK said Benmage was talking out of both sides of his mouth too. *Phrase high-five*
BloodCovenant's #214 also makes me think scum. Shitload of fluff with little actual justification for his reads.
Cybertronix keeps showing up to promise more content later and getting involved in current (mostly useless) discussion. Pretty safe activity for scum.
Going to skip Kise's catch up as well, though I think aiming for Kublai Khan is probably unlikely from scum.
Melmond's #257 is very shallow and not really the content from him but I was looking for, but the tone seems to come from town. The zabriel vote is convenient if he's scum, but it doesn't seem right.
Oh, Nero denies responsibility for the kill. Maybe it's ~wifom~ but he might be back on the cart.
I'm liking Thad. Liking the BloodCovenant vote, liking the resistance to the zab wagon.
Acosmist's That vote makes me go "Buhh????" and BC's Thad vote makes me want to vote him.
Again skipping IAI's catchup. Voting zabriel doesn't bode well for him though.
Something from Zoroaster which I'm also skipping. Asking for a vote count is good though. *Thumbs up*
Mostly scanning things now.

Vote: BloodCovenant

Things look Grim for BloodCovenant but I see some interest in IAI in the last couple of pages which I'll be looking at after I take a break. Still looking or more from Shihrazai.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 1.8

"I want you to listen to me very carefully, Harry. You're not a bad person. You're a very good person, who bad things have happened to.
Besides, the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. We've all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on.
That's who we really are." -Sirius Black, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

zabriel - 6 (jasonT1981, Melmond, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, I Am Innocent, Zoroaster)
Kublai Khan - 2 (Kise, zabriel)
ThAdmiral - 2 (Acosmist, BloodCovenant)
I Am Innocent - 2 (Benmage, ThAdmiral)
BloodCovenant - 2 (Yates, snifit)

Not voting - Shahrizai, Cybertronix, PeregrineV, Amrun, Tammy, rapidcanyon

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST on October 29, 2012.

[snifit]

Good timing on that vote count.

[rapidcanyon]

Responding to prod. Catching up now.

[Melmond]

would it make more sense to lynch Acosmist relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed?

As I said before, I don't like the idea of a policy lynch on Acosmist. I don't see any reason for planning that this early.

you're right. if you've played any MGS games, you'd know snake keeps his cool and isn't a bitch.

Seriously doubting his claim because of this is just absurd, especially without knowing the flavor. Unless he's actually doing something scummy, why lynch him, it's not like, say.... A hated townie.

And not to mention, the whole 2 mafias thing with Zabriel.
My thoughts are the same as ThAdmiral in his #277
And why the vote on ThAd? You haven't said anything before this.
VOTE: Blood Covenant

[Melmond]

Looking back at ISO's Acosmist really hasn't been doing much so far. He's been posting, but it's mostly fluff.

VOTE: ThAdmiral

What was this all about?

IaI doesn't look good either, but I'd like to hear more from him before just going ahead and saying he's scum.

[Kublai Khan]

I don't think much of any of the votes on me. They aren't really high on my list of shit I care about.

Look at this! This guy is town. I absolutely don't see a scum zabe faking the "I give 0 fucks" vibe. That reads genuine. I feel like scum zabe would be freaking the fuck out right about now.

I still can. Giving a zero fucks seems to be more of a personality thing. And he's been posting much more since he's come under suspicion.

I think he's being unfairly jumped on for more or less reasonable things. His main failure is that he is posting opinions which don't seem to be fully formed, or fully thought through. Furthermore he sometimes doesn't respond to direct questions, for whatever reason, which gives people easy ammunition to throw at him (ie "why didn't you answer my question in xxxx?").
Basically I don't see a convincing case that there are scum motivations behind his actions, just sub-optimal play.

I'm still not getting why you're so dismissive.

* He jumped a vote on jasonT1981 for a piss-poor reason (Post 14 then later claims that he's "slow with votes, especially on D1. It's just one of my things." (Post 203)
* He votes for Benmage based on points I made (Post 203), then switched to a burgeoning wagon on me claiming "I actually did have scum feel on KK earlier, I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not though." (Post 260)
* His position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance. "I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later." (Post 121) to "I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon." and "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch." (Post 187 - worth noting that there was no wagon on Acosmist, zabriel later retconned it to "pressure" being the same thing as wagon). Also worth noting that he never named a single poster that was scummy due to putting non-wagon pressure on Acosmist. He just ignored questions that he couldn't answer.

I realize that the line between sub0optimal town play and scum play can be blurry. But zabriel is clearly on the scum side of that line.

Good deflection though.

Not sure if trying to get the last laugh as town or scum.

What do you think, KublaiKhan?

I don't really know Cybertronix's personality well enough to make that call but I'll say town. zabriel's "why are you bringing that up?" offensive was pretty stupid considering that Cybertronix only did bring it up to answer Zoroaster's question. And the timing is certainly suspect. zabriel did seem to be trying to jump onto something while he was being wagonned pre-daykill. So called it a deflection is not just a random mud-sling.

@ThAdmiral: Add the above to my case on zabriel. It's evidence of a slight freak-out to his initial wagon.

Took me close to 3 hours but yes, I've read everything from the rules, timestamps, join dates and on down to before I hit the submit button. Every post of yours, it comes across like you're playing an angle instead of really trying to dissect things for a purpose. Even here, the slight shade by asking me if I've skimmed the thread. Mind gaming is something I'm all too familiar with, so if someone looks like they're playing master manipulator, it's only polite of me to say hello.

Okay. Sounds like you're letting past reputation cause you to have confirmation bias.

I asked you if you might have skimmed the thread because I explained why I thought jasonT1981 was town in Post 29. This feels like a re-hash of stuff I've already argued. Yes, I acknowledge that there exists a marginal possibility that it was all part of jasonT1981's master plan to only appear to have town-telled, but I'm leaning on the side of Occam's razor. My experience and cunning tells me that sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar. But thanks for the compliments.

Besides, even if it's an evil genius fake town-tell, he's not clear... not by a longshot. If he does something suspect that I spot or someone else puts up a decent case, then that towntell doesn't save him.

What that gotta do with day actions tho?

VTs have a very basic PM with very, very little information. Re-read the first post with the example. If you ask anything that sounds like you have flavor (like something about "color" or insinuating that you have day-actions) then you are basically soft-claiming PR. Thus, ugh.

[PeregrineV]

If Jason were scum faking not knowing flavor, I don't think AV would announce that strategy. So I'm putting Jason into the town slot for now.

Also, in a normal amount of posts (more than 4), the "coaching" of Cyber would be dismissed as early game/RVS stuff. The fact that it is 25% of AVs posts, and I doubt AV expected to die, there may be something to the coaching claim.

However, my vote is going elsewhere (see next post).

[PeregrineV]

I'm conflicted on rapidcanyon. I'm getting scumvibes I can't put my finger on but his #160 is a solid post, trying to get into other players' heads. I guess I have to say town but I'll be looking for more posts from him. Interesting that he threw a vote in the same direction I did, and as a bonus he could even elaborate what bothered him about Shahrizai. Neat! Yeah town for now. Ohhh well his pushback on Kublai Khan is bad but he's still town.

I read this as "Rapidcanyon is scummy but not". Classic scum position to defend/bus depending on which way the wind blows.

Going to skip Kise's catch up as well, though I think aiming for Kublai Khan is probably unlikely from scum.

Read this as skipping Kise posts, and that Kise is "unlikely scum because he's aiming for KublaiKhan". I don't get the second part. Kise is town because he's pushing KK? Explain please.

Am I a hypocrite for not wanting to read someone else's catchup post? Going to skip ThAdmiral for now.

Read this as skipped ThAd's posts.

I'm liking Thad. Liking the BloodCovenant vote, liking the resistance to the zab wagon.
Acosmist's That vote makes me go "Buhh????" and BC's Thad vote makes me want to vote him.

Read this as he likes ThAd, the guy whose posts he skipped.

And the snifit BC vote was because BC voted ThAd.

This whole post reeks.

Vote: snifit

[BloodCovenent]

@MOD, NO access until 10pm est tonight, or possibly until tomorrow mid-day.

[Yates]

And he's been posting much more since he's come under suspicion.

Guys, this is a null tell. I seem to see this "logic" in every game and it needs to stop. The fact of the matter is some people don't contribute - especially early game - unless there is something worth commenting on. Seeing people voting for you is worth commenting on regardless of alignment.

Just finished a flawless victory here where the last scum

lurked

under pressure - which is the

opposite

of what was just called scummy.

Sorry. I usually let people defend themselves but this is quickly becoming my #1 pet peeve BS "scum tell."

[Yates]

* His [Zabriel's] position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance. "I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later." (Post 121) to "I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon." and "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch." (Post 187 - worth noting that there was no wagon on Acosmist, zabriel later retconned it to "pressure" being the same thing as wagon). Also worth noting that he never named a single poster that was scummy due to putting non-wagon pressure on Acosmist. He just ignored questions that he couldn't answer.

This, however, is a good point. Individually, I didn't see anything scummy about any of these posts. Presented like this? I'm feeling less Town on Zab now.

[Amrun]

SORRY SORRY

DON'T REPLACE ME

[ThAdmiral]

* His [Zabriel's] position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance. "I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later." (Post 121) to "I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon." and "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch." (Post 187 - worth noting that there was no wagon on Acosmist, zabriel later retconned it to "pressure" being the same thing as wagon). Also worth noting that he never named a single poster that was scummy due to putting non-wagon pressure on Acosmist. He just ignored questions that he couldn't answer.

To parrot yates this is a good point.

I don't know. I would still rather lynch someone else.

[jasonT1981]

I still maintain a Zab flip will go a long way to help determine the alignment of Acosmist

[Amrun]

I still maintain a Zab flip will go a long way to help determine the alignment of Acosmist

Having read nothing but the last few posts, I don't like this one.

You don't flip someone to get input on a third player unless you have conviction that the first one is scum. What is your read on Zab?

[jasonT1981]

I still maintain a Zab flip will go a long way to help determine the alignment of Acosmist

Having read nothing but the last few posts, I don't like this one.

You don't flip someone to get input on a third player unless you have conviction that the first one is scum. What is your read on Zab?

then read the game. You will see why I am saying this, as I have said this before.

I'm not going to do the work for you, catch up before you make comments about single posts with no idea what is going on. It is all outlined.

Do the work, read the game.

Also, given I am voting Zab, what do you think my read is on him??

Has to be a town read, right? Can be the only read I have on him, with a vote, surely?

[Amrun]

I am going to read the game, but I've recently had a death in my family and it's kind of fucking up my schedule. But I'm getting back on track now and this game will get read soon.

But there's no reason not to just be frank with me. Why play coy?

I saw your vote was on Zab, but the post I questioned made it seem less like you believed he was scum and more like you believed he was a smart flip. Those are NOT the same things.

[snifit]

Well done, Peregrine. You managed to get a "he's scummy but not" vibe from a passage where I said "I'm conflicted on rapidcanyon". Excellent insight.
Skipping catch up posts meant I skipped catch up posts. Sometimes I read some of their other posts. I mostly skimmed the last two pages because I was tired of reading.

I know there were a lot of words in my last post, but I guess you could just ctrl+f BloodCovenant. It's more than just the Thad OMGUS vote.

[jasonT1981]

I saw your vote was on Zab, but the post I questioned made it seem less like you believed he was scum and more like you believed he was a smart flip. Those are NOT the same things.

I have voted Zab twice, the votes were reset to 0 with the day kill of scum while my vote was on him, and therefore I put my vote right back on where it was.

[Tammy]

I can't say for sure, but I have scum feelings about people that should logically be somewhat clear by the AV flip. It wouldn't be inconsistent with the flavor.

Basically I'm willing to take a step back on some things, but I'm not tossing all of my scum reads out based on me not feeling that they're scum with AV.

Who specifically are you talking about?

[Tammy]

Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.

God I hope as I read further someone corrected this^.

@zabriel

Sometimes mods will not include main characters (I know crazy). And also sometimes they won't include them, BUT they will give them to scum as SAFECLAIMS.

This is actually a pretty decent town tell.

[Amrun]

Do you really think that's an answer, jason?

On another note, I totally didn't realize we had a scum daykill hahahahahha that's awesome.

[Amrun]

That being said, an iso of AV reveals that jason probably isn't scum. Jason, what do you think of Acosmist's relationship with AV?