Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

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-Shmugen replaces MathGirl277. Welcome him!

Unvote

You heard the mod. Readthrough is in progress, cohesive thoughts will arrive tomorrow.

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Not a single one of you welcomed me. Hurtful.

I'm caught up reading wise, but comprehension of that reading is lagging a touch behind. Basic summary of thoughts:

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

2. TSH - Not much here. I note a lack of dropped hippo wisdom yesterday and a declared willingness to debate. The exchange of words with Ludi didn't make Ludi look great.

3. DDDP - I feel a bit of your pain with large themes, but I hope you show up sooner rather than later. Slight townread on DDDP for giving no shits about scum win condition.

4. Dramonic - Flavor does not a townie make, nor does voting Oversoul. There's a healthy difference between scum and anti-town. One you lynch, one you vig. Your 'come and get some' attitude doesn't match your content output.

5. Duplicity - Good stuff, relatively easy to follow logic. Post 402 is almost spot on, though we don't agree on Quilford and a few small points.

6. Gamma - I am frightened by your idea that content is just starting around post 895. Other than the slightly changing reason on why Gamma thinks the Toast wagon is bad, this slot pleases me. A, would read again.

7. Glork - Please don't quit the site. I think little else needs saying about this slot. Anyone thinking Glork scum would require a Glork/Tierce wombocombo scum gambit to make their reasoning work, and then we could declare mafiascum over and move to browner pastures.

8. Haze - Middle of the pack null. This started smelling like Haze revving up the bus for Toasty, but the reasoning became more inquisitive and diggy.

9. Hinduragi - His posts, they are so TINY. Good grilling of Oversoul, don't like the making excuses for Uberninja early on. In post 617, promises ability to do solid gold posting. Get hyped and do it!

10. Implosion - This ISO promised much, then had post 890 which gave me a bit of hope, and then nothing. See above Hindu advice.

11. Katsuki - I was excited for like a day when I saw you were on the verge of replacing out only to come back at the last minute and crush my dreams. Conviction is noted, but a case would be nice to give your baseless postulations a base. You've said just less than Implosion in more posts.

12. LLD - Not much of a presence since the waning of the Age of TammyNinja and the waxing of the Age of Oversoul. Post deals are crap and should be treated as such. I like the push on UberNinja early though. What's the theory behind withholding reads?

13. Ludi - No content since the end of Age 1. I'm sorely tempted to sheep Duplicity here, but I don't see a lot. Most of the crap in the ISO is Alchemist related.

14. MoI - Townread. Very unafraid to take the ugly, questionable stances/arguments and drag them to the forefront.

15. MathGirl - That's me!

16. Nexus - Ugh. This post and reading took me hours. At least approximate an effort, you lazy git. This is a Vi game, you know not the treat you are in for.

17. Nikanor - Other than the case on Alchemist and a touch of Oversoul defense, all posts/cases revolve around meta. Tierce finds the cat's meta cases somewhat acceptable, and I generally defer to Tierce regarding meta. Nulltown?

I'm getting tired. These will get shorter/shallower.

18. Oman - Kinda gross. Promises to take a bath to remove grossness and post this weekend.

19. Oversoul - Really gross. Misguided town is putting it lightly, between defending Toasty before Toasty even showed up and thinking he'd be real cool for faking a daykill.

20. Quilford - Not a fan of the list on page 2 at all, though it did spark discussion. I require more than a list of vague feelings. You will supply them to me.

21. GreyICE - This slot is like the Katsuki slot but with more ideas and attempts to make content. Reasoning for this being a popular wagon is out there, I'm sure, but I may have to piece it together tomorrow. How sure were you the dayvig was fake?

22. Singersinger - This is bad. The Tammy vote is bad, the 'ugh this game is hard sheep Glork' is bad, the 'I'm just not into it' is miserable.
VOTE: Singersinger

I have petered out. My apologies, hopefully I will find the time tomorrow to do a little better on these last 5 and finish the last 7. SUPER CLIFFNOTES: Spy and Tammy are complicated, Tierce town, Zdenek possibly town but also complicated, UberNinja/Toast possibly scum but require reading, I hear Fate/Nuwen hydra exists but I could be wrong seeing as there are 4 posts and only 1 has any worth.

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10 minute work break quick reaction:

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Meet Shmu.

Did exactly the same as town in MLP.


Not really caught up, super skimming, will be back in Lisbon today.

I think the theory is crap, Grey. I play this game to have fun, lurking is not fun. I have fun by interacting with people, and there's no better way to inject myself into the mix than to talk about everyone.

My reads on that list didn't add a lot to the game, no. They are to spike conversation and are otherwise for my benefit. I attempt to keep a game's events fresh in my mind as they happen, this is difficult when replacing in or when I fall behind. A list helps me get my head on straight and serves as a reference point, a backup if you will, should I fall behind in the future.

Response to Alchemist coming in the afternoon.

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And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

post 595
post 656
post 839
are the three main instances of taking unpopular stances, 'Hey Glork, let's have the alive after N1 discussion, Hey Tierce you're wrong on dayvig use, Hey everyone, Oversoul makes a bit of sense'. The hydra speaks its minds.

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

Tierce wasn't confirmed town, nor did her posting indicate anything near as such

Sheep detected

So bad shot = confirmed town and anything else flies? Tell me why you felt Tierce was scummy.

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

Additional point on this, Grey: Of those summaries, how much do you feel TSH, Nexus, or Oman have added to the game? I can't write on what isn't there. For the record, PeregrineV IS in this game as part of TSH.

Now to finish the Great Wall of Shmu.

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And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

post 595
post 656
post 839
are the three main instances of taking unpopular stances, 'Hey Glork, let's have the alive after N1 discussion, Hey Tierce you're wrong on dayvig use, Hey everyone, Oversoul makes a bit of sense'. The hydra speaks its minds.

You consider those examples of them bringing up ugly/questionable stances and give them a town read because they speak their mind? Do you think they don't speak their mind as scum?

Also, how does taking a stance that Magua believes concerning those who tend to get nightkilled early and saying let's not worry about them until day 3 or 4, which is a stance that he's taken in the past as far as I know and would be stated regardless of alignment an indication of alignment here?

Your second example is an opinion on role usage theory, which is again something that isn't indicative of alignment.

And the third one, I'll give you some, but it still is just a matter of common sense what they said.

So, does someone speaking their minds mean they're innocent?

They struck me as MaguaoI putting himself in the thick of things and pushing points that others might shy away from. I would expect scum to shy away from anything that draws that much unnecessary attention to themselves, especially as point 1 vs Glork was very antagonistic towards a power player who I felt was townish at the time of the post. Reminiscent of a dog barking like crazy at another dog. What's it going to do but get people to throw shoes and tell them to shut up? Yet it happened anyway.

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23. SpyreX - His answers to the pressure put on him by various sources (UN, MaguaoI) have been satisfactory, but only just. I want to call it clear town, but it's not there enough. Remember when I was talking about LLD and I said I hate vote trade deals? I dislike proxy votes too. Giving up your vote is like putting down your pistol in an Old West duel. Spy is correct that this game needs blood. It's pretty bloated already, I can't imagine how bad it would be if the lurkfolk actually tried.

24. Tammy - The personality irks me when someone flips the raeg switch, but the concepts presented seem solid. The town parts of the ISO that stand out are recent, the analysis of the LLD vote deal with Spy and the acceptance that meta is a thing around here and the effort to go to her old home, dig up all kinds of games and do analysis on them. The earlier parts of the ISO kind of blur together, but I think I understand where the idea of voting Tammy early came from.

25. Tierce - Like you needed an excuse to go drinking, that's most likely the biggest lie you've told this game. (Note. If you are actually an alcoholic, I beg your pardon.) That said, the reaction to the fake dayvig seems natural enough to me, had the rage stopped early I might have thought scum. Town up and down, but I'll agree with Tammy here, meta is useful but the whole 'What would Katsuki do' argument makes me slightly ill. It isn't everything. I want to hear more on why you think MaguaoI is scum.

26. ToastyToast - Much has been said to merit the below vote already. Not only does Toast come in and suspect the 3 wagons at the time with no other reads, he continually goes back and asks how he could possibly have reads on others by page 8. A few of these other reads come through around page 40 turning his initial 3 reads into 9 reads out of 28, 5 of these being null and no mention of previous suspect Tammy. Of these reads, only one is scum and that's DDDP of all people. Really? You're reading this game, the same words I'm reading, and you come back with DDDP.

Unvote

, VOTE: ToastyToast

27. UberNinja - *sigh* Crappy attitude, small townlean. I don't think Toasty's initial post was bad enough for scumninja to rev up the bus so soon, mostly. Disinterest level is dildos, cases instead of reflexive outbursts would be nice. Do you still think Tierce is scum after the whole Oversoul thing?

28. Wyrd - It took this hydra 1000 posts to get the ball rolling, but there begins to be content, hallelujah. Fate, do try to do more than just mock Tierce. The Ludi point by Nuwen early makes some sense to me, as does the Ludi defense of Toasty point. Similar amounts of town as UberNinja but with much more promise.

29. Zdenek - I'm sorry to hear about the family emergency. Your early content was inquisitive and decent, hopefully when you return it will continue. I'm going to go with the nullside of town for stubbornness. Going after Glork's Katsuki thing in the midst of the Oversoul fakevig and Glork's pondering of replacement doesn't feel like scum looking for blood in the water.


Whew! Those last six had a lot to them.
In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, Spy

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They struck me as MaguaoI putting himself in the thick of things and pushing points that others might shy away from. I would expect scum to shy away from anything that draws that much unnecessary attention to themselves, especially as point 1 vs Glork was very antagonistic towards a power player who I felt was townish at the time of the post. Reminiscent of a dog barking like crazy at another dog. What's it going to do but get people to throw shoes and tell them to shut up? Yet it happened anyway.

Does either head of the hydra seem to you to be people who act shy when scum so much so that speaking their opinion on something that is a stance taken in the past an indicator of alignment?

Also, I noticed in your reads that you said Duplicity made a lot of sense in his reads post. What is your read on them? You don't say.

Magna, no. Magua I couldn't speak for, I am not a meta scholar. Your point is taken. Giving MaguaoI a quick rereread, I also appreciate the wanting to vig Dramonic due to content lack. I am for the potential vig pool subsisting of those below the mod in activity level, say from Nikanor down? Excepting Wyrd and myself, of course.

As for Duplicity, yes I do have a townread.

I forgot to throw Magna into my summary thing.

In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd, Spy
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, MaguaoI

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@Toasty - I have two mostly solid scumreads and one decent scumread, yes. The difference between mine and your early ones that I'm voting you for is that mine looked at everyone after a large amount of game went by and yours looked at the 3 largest wagons early and looked at no one else. Your biggest complaints about DDDP seem to be his giving his vote to Spy and not voting Dram when he says he would vig Dram if given a chance. While not expressly stated, he gave his vote to Spy before your entrance, and if he likes where his vote is, his 'I would vig Dram' is fine. Incidentally, his vote is on you. Could this have anything to do with your scumread on him? Your four largest scumreads are all on your wagon.

And no, I try not to forget early play. One of my favorite things about forum mafia is the inability to delete old posts. Someone has to remember what came before and not let scum slip by.

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Code: Select all

ToastyToast
Ludi
Lurkers

A reminder to you, Glork, to do a case on MoI.

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Somewhat blatant prod-dodge. I'm trying to wrap my head around this MoI - Tammy thing and I'm seeing what I gave a townread to MoI for turning into a shit throwing contest with MoI as the only contestant.

Also, flavor post is terrifying. I can almost feel Vi's toes tapping ever faster.

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For the record, Gamma, MoI is at L-3. Timeater keeps posting on his main account rather than his alt.

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Unlike these sorry louts did for me, I will welcome you. Welcome! Gamma's recommendation is pretty sound. You might want to throw Tammy in there for some context. Also rather important is an event, happened after post 800, where Oversoul faked a daykill.

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I found a translator for the ancient language in Fire Emblem. That message reads 'Please hurry... You are... already one cycle behind!'

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I don't know a lot about Magua, and I believe he's done the majority of the hydra's postings, but when I replaced in, the majority of the hydra's posts seemed constructive and asking questions to challenge the status quo opinions. Since then, the majority of the hydra's postings have been bickery and less than constructive. We seem to have lost Oversoul due to time, and while his play doesn't have me crying many tears, we're beginning to lose townies. If this is a slippery slope, we need to slam on the brakes.

Unvote, Vote: MoI

As far as blue number/timer speculation, Oversoul died at 17 and we got a massive story post at 12. Without more proof, and the kind of proof we're getting is gross, I'm going to guess that a cycle is approximately 12. This info isn't super useful, but I might expect something at 24. Inb4 the number doesn't reset.

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Alchemist, truly? There was one RIGHT BENEATH Oversoul's deathscene.

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We have had Vi votecounts where the blue number hasn't changed. It's not a count of votecounts. Having read a Vi game or two, it's some funky hybrid mixture of quantity and quality of posts over time.

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Unvote

I'll take a look at Implosion as soon as possible, probably at lunch.

I think a country claim would be beneficial. There are pros and cons to any plan, but the pros probably outweigh the cons on this one. If MoI has powers related to country, it's likely others do as well. Con wise, if the scum are going after country leaders as theorized, if a leader dies, the scum could ignore everyone else who claimed that country.

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Nik, I would see immediately after telling your lover mason to apathetically claim VT as the worst time to leave for an hour or two.

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Far be it from me to not mock a silly idea, Tierce.

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I'm expecting blue number shenanigans at 28 or 32.

Angel makes a strong point regarding SpyreX's whole nation thing, the WIFOM would be far more trouble than its worth. Welcome and thank you for taking over a less than productive slot.

I would think that MoI would be a little less caustic today. One scum down on day 2 is being in decent shape, people, keep your heads in the game.

VOTE: MagisterLudi.

Among the prodded, I want to hear from Dram, Nik, and Oman the most. Apologies for needing a prod. Tierce, I don't comprehend what you're saying with the Ludi unvote.

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I can go for a lurker lynch if Ludi isn't going to get the axe. Oman, Nexus, Katsuki, take your pick.

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In the same vein as the childish arguments where telling someone to be quiet constitutes being loud, Alchemist, cut it out with the fluff posts. The Blue Number (Blumber?) will come calling.

Consider Katsuki struck from my list of want to lynch today for now.

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Katsu seems to be claiming some sort of masonizer as well, or something similar enough that the word counterclaim is in there. Either one of you is lying, which we should be able to discover soon, or we have two pretty strong roles here.

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Yowza. LLD, I tip my hat to you. What a fun game to watch, especially the last day.

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Additional special thanks to Andrius for naming the scum QT "Daft Daein Denizens Demand Delightful Daytalk Discussion Despite Decent Domicile".

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I was amazed when my time came. I knew I'd be leaving, I did NOT know I'd be leaving second.

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I'm curious as to when I would have been lynched. I wasn't on too many people's lists in the short time I was around.

Tammy, yes, I was scum and made a big wall like that, but I also do that as town. It's my general catch-up mechanism that I'm weaning myself off of.

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There were none.

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My plan wasn't terribly intricate, but I did want to use GreyICE's glare to stone of our own people once they got some towncred. We had no idea it was fixable.

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Duplicity won if the number hit 85. Any death other than LLD/DDD would have pushed that number to 85.

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I replaced in to this game, and as I got my PM I started scrolling through it. I got to the picture and went, 'Hm. That looks somewhat maiden-ish...'. Got to the text, 'Welcome, Shmu! You are MICAIAH, THE EVIL SCUM BOSS. GOOD FREAKING LUCK, SON'. And thusly the short-lived reign of Shmucaiah began.

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No need to feel bad, Tiercey! Such is life!

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I think they're all just spewing BS. Grey said, 'Hey. Let's kill Wyrd. It could be a power role.' and we were like 'Okay?' and he was like 'Okay.

Kill: Wyrd

', though I think it was actually me who sent it in.

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I have a difficult time staying in the groove when I'm in a game from the beginning. Replacing into a giant game and having to barf up that many reads was not good for me.