Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[EmpTyger]

Clarification: I have already said fully why reasons for suspecting Scalebane. What I have not revealed is (1) my name and (2) my reasons for targeting CK last night. I have not done so because I have no cause to yet. I am not vouching for Scalebane’s alignment. I do find him most suspicious, and believe him mafia, but I do not want to imply that I am guaranteeing his guilt. I am not. These are only suspicions.


Scalebane:

<snip>

I had 3 reasons for targeting CK. I choose not to spell them out explicitly at this time, although I will clarify that my decision was most definitely not random.

Yes, well, considering that people have been asking for these reasons so that maybe they'll have a reason not to vote you, it might be nice if you quit going "Yes, I do look like an SK, yeah, yeah, but c'mon guys! look at scalebane! look at scalebane! not me!" and start defending yourself.<snip>

There’s more than 1 way to defend myself. I believe I don’t need to give my reasons regarding CK to convince people I’m not a SK. And considering the only evidence you have against me is the very information that I gave unpromptedly and freely, I’m in no rush to defend myself.

You knew CK irl, which combined with your being on the lynch of the D1 innocent might make you a more likely choice for him to have targeted.

See, I have a really hard time not being offended by this because you just implied that CK and I were cheating, or at least that he would have a good enough idea of my role because he knew me in real life. Do you not see where he completely fails to say anything about me being suspicious D1? That's because he didn't think I was! You're also basing your logic on the assumptions you want to reach. You just said: "Scalebane is scum. CK could read that very easily and blocked him, which implies that Scalebane is scum." which is just bad logic. *And* CK was on the chamber lynch for most of D1.<snip>

Sorry, I’m not implying you’re cheating. I’m considering this from CK’s PoV. I’m assuming it’s more likely he blocked someone on chamber’s lynch: STD, Ixnay (Hammer), Scalebane, CK, olio, Tyger, MeMe. I know he didn’t block me, and he obviously didn’t block himself. Someone he knew irl, whose behavior might have seemed off, maybe? I mean, knowing now what you know, who do you think CK might have targeted?

I revealed what I did because I thought that it would be help the town. I did not reveal what I did not reveal because I think that it would be hurt the town.

It's the last sentence of this that's been nagging at me (bolding mine). I don't see how anyone could read that and not get suspicious. You're claiming that you know what's best for the town, and more information is not it. Well, perhaps revealing more information would be bad for *your* side. But I highly doubt that it could hurt the town.<snip>

Oh?! Why haven’t *you* nameclaimed, then? Which you were quick to try to toss out as a suggestion to AniX in [67].

And as I've said in previous posts, excuse me for trying to use information from the nightkill in figuring out who could be anti-town.

Because half of that information was only known to me and the mafia. Ironically, I wasn’t the first to call you on this: Chess did in [116], well before I came forward.


olio:

<snip>That said, I believe your claim at the moment. I do disagree with you that your rolename wouldn't give any extra information, but at the same time I see the benefit of keeping it disclosed. Latter seems to be better now.<snip>

Of course my rolename would give extra information. If you want a massnameclaim, go for it. I don’t see any reason to offer mine freely. I claimed partially because it provided the town with useful information that was otherwise only known to myself and the mafia. Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.


Ixnay:

<snip>

I had 3 reasons for targeting CK. I choose not to spell them out explicitly at this time

By at this time, do you mean you will tell us later, or not at all? Or that you will only tell us under specific circumstances?
BTW, what(name) character are you? Did your character know Gretchen in the movie? Like the bully or Donnie or her father? That way we could tell whether or not Nonny's hints help us determine who the nightkiller was.

Go fish. *I* was the nightkiller, remember?
Rest mostly answered elsewhere, but as for whether I’d ever tell my reasons: While I see no reason to now, circumstances later could certainly change.


Sotty:

With everything we have going on, I'm not to sure about the motives of people pushing the lurker, Anix. I get the slight feeling of them trying to distract away from the current discussion. That said I know Meme hates lurkers and STD could be the same but something about it doesn't really click. Why not just ask for a

prod

?

I really don't like olio's vote switch. I agree with STD's point about someone sticking their neck out so early in the manner that Chess has points more towards him being town over scum. He has been actively out there looking for scum and jumping on him so quick doesn't sit well with me.

FOS:olio

Something really bothers me here. You mention olio, MeMe, Chess, STD, and AniX- but don’t have anything to say about the Tyger/Scalebane matter. And the only other post you’ve made since then, [151], was a hedge on me. You’ve been silent on Scalebane, and to me it feels like you’re trying to distance yourself.

[AniX]

Don't you think something doesn't look right about

him

I'm relatively sure nothing looks right about me, but that has more to do with the fact I'm out of my mind than anything else.

My opinion on meta-gaming aside, If we are going to be meta-gaming, we might as well meta-game the whole thing. There, you will find that I pretty much "lurk", as you call it, in every game in the history of time-space (exceptions being Scumchat Mafia on the forum, where I pretty much spent the entire time bull-shit posting). For anymore evidence, ask anyone who has played more than a couple scumchat games with me, it usually involves me "lurking" the whole time while doing nice choices and eventually showing up at the very end to win it for the town. Its not a "OMG, ANIX LURKS WHILE SCUM" as you seem to be implying, its more of "OMG, ANIX PLAYS STYLE INVOLVES HIM PONDERING TO HIMSELF AND EVENTUALLY COMING UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT LEADS TO TOWN'S VICTORY!" (Hence, I call myself Mr. 11th Hour because lets face it, thats a badass name and it totally fits. But thats beside the point.)

I find games in which I use this "wait and work" play style do result in my side(which is, in this current game, is town) winning more often than more conventional play styles. Call it bullshit, call it luck, call it me just wanting to be weird, but it gets results.

I don't really know how I can further defend my play style. Uhhh...its kind and compassionate and always willing to lend a helping hand? Even if you thought my play style was "the lameness" or such things, I still don't see how me being "lame" relates to me being "scum".

[nonny]

VOTE COUNT

EmpTyger(1): Scalebane
Scalebane(2): EmpTyger,Chess
AniX(2): MeMe, StD
Chess(1): olio

Not Voting: AniX, Ixnayonthehombre,Save the dragons, Sentinel99, Sotty7

[MeMe]

Just because you've done it in "every game in the history of time-space" doesn't mean I'm interested in giving you a pass to the end of the game.

Here's a question for you: what made you stick up for chamber on Day 1?

[olio]

I really don't like olio's vote switch. I agree with STD's point about someone sticking their neck out so early in the manner that Chess has points more towards him being town over scum. He has been actively out there looking for scum and jumping on him so quick doesn't sit well with me.

Do you disagree with the points I made about Chess' post? That aside, it looks like to me that you and STD have forgotten one thing in this "Chess sticks his neck out this early ergo he can't be scum" -thingie: he entered this game as a replacement on day 2.

[AniX]

Just because you've done it in "every game in the history of time-space" doesn't mean I'm interested in giving you a pass to the end of the game.

Here's a question for you: what made you stick up for chamber on Day 1?

I'm not asking for a pass until the end of the game. I'm just saying that the only "evidence" you are using to vote for me is based on your preception I am lurking. I am asking that if you are going to vote me, at least come up with something a little more concrete than "lurking".

To answer your question: I don't recall "sticking up for chamber" so much as I questioned whether or not the bandwagon on him would yield results. I never said "CHAMBER IS TOWN, YOU GUYS! DON'T VOTE HIM!" I said "Maybe we should get some solid evidence other than "He is paranoid" before we start lynching people." I thought it was more of a case of people on both sides overreacting to a relatively small situation that quickly got blown out of proportion, and didn't feel that Chamber was any more or less scummy than another random player. If not thinking a player has proven themselves scummy or not scummy qualifies as "sticking up" for them, color me guilty of sticking up for most of the players in this game.

[olio]

It is interesting that you unvoted and voted for me based on one of my posts. I think it is a bad idea to vote for anyone based on one post.

In your own words:

This is how you make scum trip, apply pressure.

Explain following or just answer my brief question I presented earlier.

EmpTyger hasn't claimed a cop with guilty result on Scalebane, now has he? Where do you base your logic that if Scalebane is innocent, EmpTyger is scum?

That is exactly my logic. Emp did not claim cop, Emp claimed vig. and is pointing to Scale claiming he has more info to release at a latter time. Therefore, if Scale turned up innocent, then Emp mislead the town.

Clarification: I have already said fully why reasons for suspecting Scalebane. What I have not revealed is (1) my name and (2) my reasons for targeting CK last night. I have not done so because I have no cause to yet. I am not vouching for Scalebane’s alignment. I do find him most suspicious, and believe him mafia, but I do not want to imply that I am guaranteeing his guilt. I am not. These are only suspicions.

[Scalebane]

The funniest thing, EmpTyger, is that you keep implying that just because you came forward that it makes you innocent.

believe I don’t need to give my reasons regarding CK to convince people I’m not a SK. And considering the only evidence you have against me is the very information that I gave unpromptedly and freely, I’m in no rush to defend myself.

I'm sorry, EmpTyger, but it really doesn't work that way. Just because you came forward doesn't make you innocent. Let's assume that you're an SK, I'm a townie and there are three mafia. We lynch me, two night kills tonight. That leaves the town in a Lynch-or-lose tomorrow, no? and if the town bothers to stop and lynch you even though you've offed two townies just for kicks, then they lose. So if you're an SK, then you've ensured your survival for at least today and tomorrow. (Yes, this does assume you don't hit mafia, which the odds favor) So how about you provide some more evidence about why we should believe you beyond the poor analysis of me you've already done?

Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.

No! Get out! You mean that the mafia would also be able to read your post! Oh, you are too much!

[Ixnayonthehombre]

EmpTyger, the fact that you will not claim your name is becoming increasingly more suspicious.

Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.

...um...how would it help the Mafia to learn your 'name'? They already know that you're a vigilante, what more do they need?

BTW, what(name) character are you? Did your character know Gretchen in the movie? Like the bully or Donnie or her father? That way we could tell whether or not Nonny's hints help us determine who the nightkiller was.

Go fish. *I* was the nightkiller, remember?

I meant for future nightkill refrences...If your name, which you still won't claim, knew gretchen, then we could use that to find out any more nightkills in the future.
AniX, I understand about your playstyle, but you have gotta post more than once a week. Would you have posted if you had not been called out on it? It's cool that you can save us in our '11th hour', but we need your help now, also.

[MeMe]

I'm not asking for a pass until the end of the game. I'm just saying that the only "evidence" you are using to vote for me is based on your preception I am lurking. I am asking that if you are going to vote me, at least come up with something a little more concrete than "lurking".

Erm. You've said you're doing it on purpose because it works for your side -- so, it's not a perception, it's a fact you've admitted. As for coming up with something "a little more concrete" -- well, that's a ridiculous challenge seeing as if you're

lurking

you know darn well there's going to be precious little "concrete" to go on. That's your whole strategy, right?

To answer your question: I don't recall "sticking up for chamber" so much as I questioned whether or not the bandwagon on him would yield results.

I suppose it is a matter of perception -- but to me, even going back and reading all of your day one posts now, you seemed determined to make me look silly (MeMe's establishment -- chamber stepped on MeMe's boots -- chamber doesn't like MeMe's playstyle, so get him) while continually saying that chamber's actions weren't that scummy. I think it's pretty clear that chamber's

actions

were scummy -- the question was did that translate to a scum

alignment

. You even said...

So by all means continue to press chamber, as that is benefical to town knowledge and thus benefical to the town. However, I want to see some tangible evidence, so I'm afraid I cannot choose a side, as Emp has demanded, until I see some.

...which is what everyone else seemed to be doing already, while you watched. And, interestingly, this "keep the pressure on" seems at odds with your recent statement that you questioned whether the bandwagon would yield results.

Here's the deal -- I'm looking at three people right now. You're one of them

because

you seemed intent on lying low. In my opinion, a silent threat is more dangerous than a loud threat. My opinion of you is going up that you seem willing to participate when asked to do so, but now that your silent strategy has been exposed in this game, it makes sense that you should just toss it and play this one.

One more question -- Do you agree that, had chamber turned up guilty, it'd have been logical to interpret your actions as trying hard not to vote him?

~~~~~~~~~

And Sotty, please note that AniX needed no prod.

[EmpTyger]

Scalebane:

The funniest thing, EmpTyger, is that you keep implying that just because you came forward that it makes you innocent.<snip>

No, the funniest thing, Scalebane, is that you keep implying that just because I came forward that it makes me guilty. At the moment more is known about me than about any other player. So why should *I* be needing to give further information about myself?

Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.

No! Get out! You mean that the mafia would also be able to read your post! Oh, you are too much!

I was drawing a contrast between that and the claim I had made. This is pure theory. The mafia already knew that they didn’t kill CK, whereas the town was in the dark. So I was giving significantly more information to the town than to the mafia. This is clearly beneficial. Whereas with my nameclaim, I would be giving out information that both the mafia and the town equally lack. It is not as obvious that this would help the town.


Ixnay:

EmpTyger, the fact that you will not claim your name is becoming increasingly more suspicious.

Likewise the fact that you keep pressing me. You are arguing circularly. AniX or MeMe or *any* other player have also not nameclaimed. Should they? Well, given that you’re not pressing him to the same degree, evidentally not. Why is this? Based on your logic: I should nameclaim because I’m suspicious, and I’m suspicious because I haven’t nameclaimed.

Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.

...um...how would it help the Mafia to learn your 'name'? They already know that you're a vigilante, what more do they need?

A safeclaim, maybe?

BTW, what(name) character are you? Did your character know Gretchen in the movie? Like the bully or Donnie or her father? That way we could tell whether or not Nonny's hints help us determine who the nightkiller was.

Go fish. *I* was the nightkiller, remember?

I meant for future nightkill refrences...If your name, which you still won't claim, knew gretchen, then we could use that to find out any more nightkills in the future. <snip>

Nope, guess again. For future nightkills, either I’ll be alive, in which case I’ll be able to make that determinination in that circumstance; or I’ll be dead and my rolename will be public knowledge.


AniX:
If it helps, know that I was awfully close to targeting you last night, and would love to ease my conscience by finding some evidence why that would have been at least as bad as killing CK. This isn’t a threat, just a statement: I don’t consider lurking as protown behavior.

[Chess83]

Olio, you last post came across as kinda of jumbled, I only got the second part out of it. Maybe the "In your own words" part could be explained a little better?

As for my logic, IF Emp IS a Vig, then he knows who he killed.
If he knows who he killed then he knows that the mafia's kill did not occur.
If the mafia's kill did not occur, then they know there is an SK or a Vig out there, thus wanting to get rid of that character, they would try to discover them.
If Emp knows all of this, then he can sit and watch who is "fishing" to discover who killed CK.
Emp then comes foward when he feels he has discovered a mafia member.

However, I am becoming more unsure as Emp continues to post. For one thing my theory still could stand if Emp is telling the truth. They could have both chosen CK.

For another thing, Emp's thinking is skewed, there is nothing to loose by telling everybody your name, all the mafia cares about is that fact that you are a threat to them, SK or Vig, you are not pro-scum and thus a threat that will be dealth with. However, telling us your name will help us to determine the validity of your statements, as your role will fit into the movie.

With this knowledge in mind I yet again

Request that Emp name claim

[olio]

Sorry Chess, I tried witty answer and failed. I was answering to your bewilderment how I can judge you based on one post with your own words: put pressure on scum and they trip. To make it more clear - I put pressure on you and you tripped.

You have still to answer this question:
Why do you think EmpTyger disclosed information (the things he hasn't told us after he claimed) has anything to do with his vote on Scalebane?

[Ixnayonthehombre]

AniX or MeMe or *any* other player have also not nameclaimed. Should they? Well, given that you’re not pressing him to the same degree, evidentally not.

AniX and MeMe haven't *role*claimed. You have. I don't want to know their names. I want to know yours. Just claim your name and make it a valid claim. What is wrong with wanting to know your name?

Based on your logic: I should nameclaim because I’m suspicious, and I’m suspicious because I haven’t nameclaimed.

I said that you should nameclaim. You were not suspicious at this point. You refused, which made you suspicious. Not a lot, just a little. But the fact that you keep avoiding it is making you more suspicious. And by the way, I'm not the only one pressuring you.

A safeclaim, maybe?

What's a safeclaim? Sorry, newbishness shining through.

[Chess83]

Sorry Chess, I tried witty answer and failed. I was answering to your bewilderment how I can judge you based on one post with your own words: put pressure on scum and they trip. To make it more clear - I put pressure on you and you tripped.

You have still to answer this question:
Why do you think EmpTyger disclosed information (the things he hasn't told us after he claimed) has anything to do with his vote on Scalebane?

Okay... That was pressure? Also, how did I trip? I am missing something? For one thing I didn't even notice the pressure by you, for another one post cannot really apply pressure. Furthermore, part of making scum trip is getting them in a situation where they have no outs that make them look okay. So, how am I in a corner? I am really confused by that. So basically my question is,

How did I trip?

As for your second part, discolsed means to divulge(sp) or tell. Maybe a better word to use in that sentence would be conceal. I don't recall saying that it did directly effect scalebane, if I wrote it I was mistaken, if it was implied, again I am sorry. I do make mistakes and this maybe one of them. I think that the information Emp is not releasing will shed some light on the validity of his claim, thus strenghting his accusation agaisnt Scale. Right now it is a toss up of "Do we believe him or not?" If we had a name then it may help with that decision and thus help us decided on what to do with Scale. Is that clear?

[Save The Dragons]

I just want to make sure I have my facts straight, I'm not trying to swing one way or another, because basically, if you want to come forward, I think that's your own choices to reveal how much you want. And if the town wants you to reveal more, then it's obvious what they must do. If the town's not doing that, then they're not going to get it. If they keep asking, then we're talking on and on and not getting anywhere.

So anyway, you don't want to claim because you don't want the scum to know information about the roles so they can make up thier own, or you want to be able to catch them if they claim your role, correct?

(Ixnay: Safeclaim = a claim the scum can produce that isn't thier own role, but it's a role that no one else has. Sometimes mods will give safe claims if there's a finate ammount of roles, and sometimes scum have to find thier own.)

Looking back at the movie (which I saw a while ago and don't remember everything about it), there's only two charecters with morallity issues: Jim Cunningham and Donnie Darko himself. I'm obviously missing some, because I don't think there's a scum group of Donnie and Jim.

So are you trying to trap someone just in case they claim your name (or making sure that one of the names they could trip themselves up on is yours)?

[Sotty7]

Meme – I totally understand your point of view as lurkers are a pain in the ass. I just wanted to put it out there that it makes me feel uneasy, even though I see were you're coming from. I see nothing wrong with airing my gut feelings and I will continue to do so.

And Sotty, please note that AniX needed no prod.

Noted. I will always wonder about people who lurk on purpose. It's always going to look really bad, I don't why you would develop a play style like that in the first place.
It's also noted how you (Meme) called me out on my post were as STD chose to ignore it. Different reactions from two different players of course, but it's also interesting.

Do you disagree with the points I made about Chess' post? That aside, it looks like to me that you and STD have forgotten one thing in this "Chess sticks his neck out this early ergo he can't be scum" -thingie: he entered this game as a replacement on day 2.

I don't think him being a replacement really effects it either way... but that's my experience.

Sotty:

With everything we have going on, I'm not to sure about the motives of people pushing the lurker, Anix. I get the slight feeling of them trying to distract away from the current discussion. That said I know Meme hates lurkers and STD could be the same but something about it doesn't really click. Why not just ask for a

prod

?

I really don't like olio's vote switch. I agree with STD's point about someone sticking their neck out so early in the manner that Chess has points more towards him being town over scum. He has been actively out there looking for scum and jumping on him so quick doesn't sit well with me.

FOS:olio

Something really bothers me here. You mention olio, MeMe, Chess, STD, and AniX- but don’t have anything to say about the Tyger/Scalebane matter. And the only other post you’ve made since then, [151], was a hedge on me. You’ve been silent on Scalebane, and to me it feels like you’re trying to distance yourself.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I had already called Scalebane out on trying to throw weak suspicion my way before you came out with your claim. (post 133)

Listen up, folks. *I* killed CK.

Guess I'm just really echoing the rest of the town ...but why? This partial role claim makes me feel uneasy. If I was to come out with something as big as this I would disclose all information about my role that I could and my reasons for why CK was selected. At the moment it feels like you are withholding information and that makes me feel like I shouldn't trust you. Even though if your claim is true and in fact pro town (or even if you are the SK) then my suspicions of Scalebane would increase enough for a vote, I need to hear more form you before I can really make a decision either way.

This was my post before the last one you quoted. I wanted to believe you and your claim as Scalebane had already blipped on my radar today. But as I said, I was having a hard time trusting you and your motives because you were (and still are) with holding information. Even after your last post, I am still torn. You point towards a person who is relatively high on my scum list, but still seem to be giving yourself a back door out, with lines like this

I am not vouching for Scalebane’s alignment. I do find him most suspicious, and believe him mafia, but I do not want to imply that I am guaranteeing his guilt. I am not. These are only suspicions.

I think you should name claim, you have claimed your “role” already so what is the big problem with following that part up?

Claiming my name would most likely give as much information to the mafia as it would to the town.

OK, the mafia would know not to claim that name if they need to claim later down the road, but other than that if you truly are pro town then you are hurting yourself by not letting us know. If I am over looking some great advantage that the scum would have if you revealed you name, please point it out to me.

Likewise the fact that you keep pressing me. You are arguing circularly. AniX or MeMe or *any* other player have also not nameclaimed. Should they? Well, given that you’re not pressing him to the same degree, evidentally not. Why is this? Based on your logic: I should nameclaim because I’m suspicious, and I’m suspicious because I haven’t nameclaimed.

You should name claim because you have already claimed to have killed one player, they have not. You need the town to trust you and take you at your word. Your constant side stepping is making you look worse and worse to me. I agree this would be a big gambit if you did turn out to be scum, but why are you insting on acting like such a distraction if you are pro town?

[AniX]

Most of this response has actually been sitting on my hard drive for the past 2 days or so as I was programming my laptop(and using it for the internet) and didn't get around to retrieving the file from the desktop computer.

I suppose it is a matter of perception -- but to me, even going back and reading all of your day one posts now, you seemed determined to make me look silly (MeMe's establishment -- chamber stepped on MeMe's boots -- chamber doesn't like MeMe's playstyle, so get him) while continually saying that chamber's actions weren't that scummy. I think it's pretty clear that chamber's

actions

were scummy -- the question was did that translate to a scum

alignment

.

If I came across as trying to make you look silly, I apoligize, because that was not my intent. Your name only came up because most of what made chamber suspect number 1 did involve his reaction to your vote, so I kept referring to that event, which involved me mentioning your playstyle, making your boots into a metaphor, etc.

I guess our definition of whether an action is scummy or not differs slightly. I don't view paranoia as scummy. I view paranoia as something that

could

be scummy. Much like lurking

could

be scummy. Much like various things in mafia

could

be scummy. This leads me to my next point...

...which is what everyone else seemed to be doing already, while you watched. And, interestingly, this "keep the pressure on" seems at odds with your recent statement that you questioned whether the bandwagon would yield results.

Chamber didn't strike me as scummy in the sense I was convinced he was scum. Thus, I wasn't sure if lynching him would yeild results. However, that doesn't mean that just because Chamber didn't strike me as scum he should be completely ignored. Chamber had, regardless of the circumstances, made himself a high-profile person in the game. Thus,

One more question -- Do you agree that, had chamber turned up guilty, it'd have been logical to interpret your actions as trying hard not to vote him?

That could be one interpretation of my actions. It would be one that places incorrect motive behind my actions(or lack thereof) and wouldn't be one I would personally have pursued if someone else was me, but it wouldn't be one that I would go "WHOA, TOTALLY OUT OF LEFT FIELD" because I was somewhat hesistant to vote chamber due to the fact that I felt his actions were more overreaction than evidence of scum.

Noted. I will always wonder about people who lurk on purpose. It's always going to look really bad, I don't why you would develop a play style like that in the first place.

I can't speak for others, but I know in my case it kind of developed itself and I just found it works well with me so I went with it. Thats a long and off-topic story that would best be left told for some other time/place.

[olio]

Sorry, that was a very badly chosen word on my part. Luckily I put in that explanation in parenthesis.

I think that the information Emp is not releasing will shed some light on the validity of his claim, thus strenghting his accusation agaisnt Scale. Right now it is a toss up of "Do we believe him or not?" If we had a name then it may help with that decision and thus help us decided on what to do with Scale. Is that clear?

You're still implying that the information EmpTyger hasn't revealed has something to do with his vote on Scalebane. Earlier you said:

That is exactly my logic. Emp did not claim cop, Emp claimed vig. and is pointing to Scale claiming he has more info to release at a latter time. Therefore, if Scale turned up innocent, then Emp mislead the town.

You're trying to make Emp look bad when he hasn't mislead town by not telling something about Scalebane, because he says he doesn't possess such information and the information he keeps secret has nothing to do with his vote on Scalebane.

Sotty, how is EmpTyger hurting himself by not revealing his name? There hasn't been counter-claim from vig. How big is the probability that there isn't a vig in this game in your opinion?

[olio]

Actually, I think Sotty and Chess are distracting this game with their constant asking of EmpTyger's claim. Let it rest and get on with the game.

[olio]

egh... EmpTyger's name, not claim. Sorry.

[MeMe]

unvote: AniX
vote: Sentinel99

[Chess83]

I am cool with that Olio, espically considering we just keep saying the same thing. However, I would like you to explictly say where I tripped because I am not seeing it, thus I cannot really defend myself from, or explain the supposed mistake.

Also, I still think a name claim is a good idea, but if it is just Scotty and I calling for it I will let it rest as the town does not want it.

Just for your info Olio...

Actually, I think Sotty and Chess are distracting this game with their constant asking of EmpTyger's claim. Let it rest and get on with the game.

Just claim your name and make it a valid claim.

Wow, could you please fecking give the name of your role?

Still, I'd like EmpTyger to clarify what he's claiming. Your ability's out there, so why hedge?

MeMe kinda asks for it here. Maybe I am misreading that...
THe best one in my opinion is this...

I'd like to hear your rolename

without any more info from Emp...

I believe your claim at the moment. I do disagree with you that your rolename wouldn't give any extra information, but at the same time I see the benefit of keeping it disclosed. Latter seems to be better now.

Then you jump on me with you post of questions, then you supposedly have me trapped. Going after me for why I think Emp's information damns Scale and clears himself, all the while you have your vote resting on Scale. Seems a little contradictory. It seems to me that YOU are in fact the one distracting what is going on. You still have yet to really explain this "trip" of mine. But my suspicion on you is building. I am starting to think there may be 3 scum. Or maybe it is two and they are somewhere in the group of Scalebane, STD, and Olio. I am suspicious of all. My reasons are known for STD and Scalebane, but Olio... this seems sloppy. You charge after my throat when I began to go for Scalebane, while your vote is on scalebane... interesting.

Sorry for the long list of quotes, just a little more dramatic when I let the facts speak for themselves. 7 people out of 9, ask for the name, including yourself. That leaves two people... Anix and Sent, neither post that much so I am not suprised they have not asked, also they probably figure with 7/9 people asking it will happen.

As for AniX's play style, I can vouch for his 11th hour thing, I have seen it in action and have seen it work. He could be using it as a cover for scum, or he could be telling the truth. In short, the laid back low number of posts is just his play style, really proves nothing. Like my playstyle of being very aggressive and out there. I am always this way reguardless of alignment.

Also, I will be unable to post for a few days,

possibly

untill Aug 10th or 11th, sorry about this, it was just sprung on me. I will make a post as soon as I return.

MOD PLEASE NOT THE ABOVE

[EmpTyger]

There’s no great advantage in my not revealing my name, just a slight advantage. But that’s an advantage nonetheless, so I’m going to take it. I have been accused by Sotty and Scalebane, among others, of withholding information. I’ve admitted this.

But it’s also true of every other player in this game.

And, to repeat myself, I have withheld the *least* of all players in this game. So I am skeptical of those suspecting me for this reason. And that’s why, until I hear better reason, I will continue to disregard the calls for me to claim.


Sotty:
First of all, that’s not really my point. My point is that *following* my announcement, when every other player started talking more about me and Scalebane, you clammed up. (Except for AniX, who is having to rely on some convoluted explanation regarding his playstyle, which in fairness is at least consistent with his other play in this game. And for Sentinel, but he’s posted once on the entire site in the past 12 days. [Mod?])
Yet while avoiding this major topic of conversation you do manage to stay abreast of the rest of the game, as I noticed when you commented on 5 other players in [173].

You’re quick to point to [133], (which as I said isn’t relevant to my accusation):

<snip>I'm more inclined to believe Scalebane is scum cause he does follow along the Chamber lynch and helps fuel the fire a little. Then he starts the day off trying to throw suspicion on me for the night kill of CK, even though he agrees the whole idea of it is pretty WIFOM. Maybe my heckles are raised because he was trying to link me, but I just don't like the weak attempt to throw suspicion my way. That said there isn't enough for me to vote him yet, he has brought up some interesting points and is never afraid to articulate his point of view.<snip>

But I hardly would call that “calling Scalebane out”. Considering what you have FoSed players for, I’d expect that if you genuinely did wish to call Scalebane out, you’d have at least FoSed him. On the contrary, you defend his character.

So the only thing you’ve said relevant to that issue since my vigclaim is:

Listen up, folks. *I* killed CK.

Guess I'm just really echoing the rest of the town ...but why? This partial role claim makes me feel uneasy. If I was to come out with something as big as this I would disclose all information about my role that I could and my reasons for why CK was selected. At the moment it feels like you are withholding information and that makes me feel like I shouldn't trust you. Even though if your claim is true and in fact pro town (or even if you are the SK) then my suspicions of Scalebane would increase enough for a vote, I need to hear more form you before I can really make a decision either way.

1) Baa.
2) Ask me why I killed CK N1. Which is extremely odd considering you yourself were voting him at the end of D1!
3) Be uneasy about my not fully claiming. I’m commented about this elsewhere, but it’s apparently been common enough sentiment that nothing either way can be concluded.
4) State that you would vote Scalebane if satisfied by my claim. Why wouldn’t you want to hear any defense from Scalebane? Wouldn’t you want to hear *his* claim just as much as mine if trying to make this kind of decision?

I’m getting a strong enough vibe from you that I’m going to

unvote: Scalebane, vote: Sotty7.

Scalebane:
Just because Sotty’s eclipsed in suspicion doesn’t mean I’m not still bothered by you. Don’t think you’re going anywhere.


Chess:

<snip>Also, I still think a name claim is a good idea, but if it is just Scotty and I calling for it I will let it rest as the town does not want it.<snip>

Just checking, but you mean just me nameclaiming, or a massnameclaim?


olio:
Although, rather than distracting, I happen to think that the town is gaining useful information from these postings. I’d like to hear your response to Chess’s question to you in [197].

Sotty, how is EmpTyger hurting himself by not revealing his name? There hasn't been counter-claim from vig. How big is the probability that there isn't a vig in this game in your opinion?

Incidentally, the more relevant question is if I were not a vig, how big is the probability that I would know that there weren’t a real vig in this game.


AniX:
Who *do* you think suspicious?

[Chess83]

Chess:

<snip>Also, I still think a name claim is a good idea, but if it is just Scotty and I calling for it I will let it rest as the town does not want it.<snip>

Just checking, but you mean just me nameclaiming, or a massnameclaim?

I mean you nameclaiming. I think a massnameclaim would be more of a disruption at this point than anything else. For reference I have no quams with claiming either my role or my name. I have nothing to hide, I just was a majority of the town to ask for it, if they do I will willing give it. Personally I think it is the duty of a pro-town player to do his/her part to help the town, that includes sharing suspicions and claiming when asked by a majority. That is just my take and my play style. Chamber never claims under pressure, that is his play style, as much of a mistake I think it is, I cannot fault him for sticking to his playstyle.

FYI, the chamber comment is just an example, I am not trying to raise that conversation again.