New York 146 Zach's Insane Mafia World (OVER)

[Nobody Special]

My apologies; after telling Zach that I'd stay in the game to avoid having to find a replacement, I completely forgot about it until being prodded. But I'm here now.

My memory of jason is very scummy. My memory of DV is pretty much null.

I'm totally on board with lynching jason today, and going from there. I don't, however, want to put him at L-1 just yet.

jason: Can you reiterate, please, why you're wiling to sacrifice yourself to save a potential town power role?

DV: One (and only one, please) sentence as to why we should leave you alive. Today or ever.

[Nobody Special]

I think the setup speculation has no purpose at this moment. Perhaps later.

Can we lynch Jason now?

Vote: jason

That's L-1.

[Nobody Special]

If I were to say something along the lines of "Alice is not necessarily conftown" -- how would that be received?

[Nobody Special]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

I'll look into this later. I'd like to see night results first, though.

[Nobody Special]

Actually, Alice, it DID occur to me that you could be faking Tracker. I do have to go back and read to see if that holds any water at all (which reading won't happen for a couple RL days).

DY, you're probably town.

Alice, I just have a gut feel that you're not town. Could be confirmation bias on my part.

Also, MoI is almost totally scum by dint of still being alive. If there's four mafia, no SK (meaning DY is in fact a RH), then it could be Alice + MoI.

Note to self: double-iso Alice + MoI.

I'm not going to declare a V/LA; but work it crazybusy through the weekend; I can keep up, but in-depth past re-reading will have to wait till at least Tuesday.

[Nobody Special]

Does anyone think that NS is appearing too helpful to be town?

You know, I do have my moments of usefulness.

Occasionally.

[Nobody Special]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

So what do you think regarding Alice’s claim –

1. That Alice made the whole ‘Tracker’ claim up and has fake her way through 5 nights of results?
2. That the Mafia have both a Watcher and a Tracker?

And please tell me that you possibly think Alice could be scum after this.

Okay, you bring good points. I'm going to re-read some, but I imagine that Alice isn't faking (must check her results, though), and no, I doubt mafia has both a tracker AND a watcher.

Also, MoI is almost totally scum by dint of still being alive. If there's four mafia, no SK (meaning DY is in fact a RH), then it could be Alice + MoI.

So you suspect Alice for bizzare reasons, me simply because I’m alive, and come to the conclusion that we are scum together.

Essentially, yes. I did stress that this was preliminary reasoning, and that I would have to go back and re-read carefully.

Why, all of the sudden, are you so active in this game NS?

If you recall, pre-crash, I had asked for replacement. My reason, though not stated at the time, was that I was overloaded. I was in something like 9 or 10 games. However, two things happened: I moved, thus relieving an

enormous

amount of stress from my domestic/personal life, and then we had the crash, which alleviated me from a handful of games. Given that I'm now in only three games, with the bonus of a peaceful and blissful home life, I decided to stay in this game and not make Zach find a replacement in the current difficult environment. I'm also actively trying to limit myself in number of games in order to improve my play. (On re-reading what I just typed: it's not some elaborate AtE; it's just the new direction my life and mafia career is headed.)

[Nobody Special]

I don't like the avoiding, the lack of content with the vote, or much of anything.

Vote: Snake

[Nobody Special]

unvote

Vote: DarthYoshi

(Baaa.)

[Nobody Special]

that NS contradiction bandwagon hop is actually too much,

vote:ns

Too much?

[Nobody Special]

Given recent evidence, I just feel that Darth is our lynch for today. I just don't see how changing my mind in light of recent events is scummy.

[Nobody Special]

What does that even mean?

[Nobody Special]

Recent evidence being that stuff that Alice said.

And, you know, the high probability that you're actually the SK and faked the role to throw us off.

My vote stays.

[Nobody Special]

Just popping in to mention that I'm going out of town for two days. Be back Friday morning.

[Nobody Special]

I haven't read much to comment on. DV sure is acting weird today, though.

[Nobody Special]

Without trying to AtE, that was just a quick'n'dirty catch-up post. I've just gotten back from two days out of town with zero computer access, and swamped is an understatement. More tomorrow.

There's just no way that DV and I are scum together.

[Nobody Special]

Tammy is our Serial Killer. Anyone who doesn't see that, please, do try to convince me otherwise.

unvote

Vote: Tammy

DY is still scum, though.

And that's L-2, for those playing at home.

[Nobody Special]

As explained to death prior to this, Snake was away for, like,

ever,

and there's never been more than one kill per night.

Ipso facto, you're it.

[Nobody Special]

Of the people alive who have been investigated:

NS is not a serial killer
DV is not a serial killer
Jon is not a serial killer

Don't know if I'm missing anything.

That's IF you believe DY's claim, which I don't.

[Nobody Special]

DY could be a different power role, like a Mafia Watcher. I DON'T KNOW, OKAY?

My brain hurts.

[Nobody Special]

Magua: If you think MoI should be investigated, why aren't you voting him instead? Is Jon really scummier than MoI? After all, MoI is still alive, and we know what that means.

Why are there no votes on MoI? Let's rectify that.

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

[Nobody Special]

Alice: How do you explain that you've come this far and not found any scum? Could it be that you're scum?

I just don't know what to do any more.

unvote

Vote: Alice

[Nobody Special]

Just tell me who to vote, then.

[Nobody Special]

Scum (or the SK, if there is one).

[Nobody Special]

Okay, then.

unvote

Vote: Jon

[Nobody Special]

Yes.

unvote

Vote: DeasVail

[Nobody Special]

E

dit

B

y

W

ay

O

f

D

ouble

P

ost.

[Nobody Special]

DY - You and NS have made a thing about MoI still being alive. I'm seeing a considerable amount of suspicion of him so far in the cached pages. Did you take into account that suspicion when wondering why he's still alive?

No. His being alive almost definitely points to his scumminess. In and of itself.

[Nobody Special]

Wait. I suggested what now?

[Nobody Special]

red, no comments on being at L-1?

[Nobody Special]

I desire to hear from Tammy before I hammer.

[Nobody Special]

I will be hammering red if Tammy doesn't. Pretty sure he's SK.

[Nobody Special]

Magua: What if redFF flips town?

[Nobody Special]

So is red at L-1 now?

Are we ready to hammer, then?

[Nobody Special]

You won't. You're scum of some flavor. I just know it.

[Nobody Special]

Prod received. I saw daybreak, and the weekend got real crazy.

Tammy's right, I haven't mentioned fitz. Need to re-read him.

Will have some actual input sometime tomorrow night.

[Nobody Special]

I'm really sorry. life/work/Blahblahblah.

Reading fitz' iso now; still believe MoI is scum, and this will stay until I find someone else scummier.

I'm pretty convinced (now) Tammy is town (remind me to blacklist Snake later).

CES will need another read, as well; I especially need to focus on his discussion about how many are left (that was today, yes?).

[Nobody Special]

Meh, you're all boring.

But,

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the most boring one of all?

Nobody Special!

Oh, I am

far

from boring.

1) Hi Fitz, you're scums.
2) Nice to see you're still dodging the DV protect question, MoI.
3) MoI, is there any evidence of you breadcrumbing in what remains of the thread? (Alternatively, NS, do you remember if he said something to that effect?)

1) I agree.
3) No, I don't recall.


I swear, this game. I'm not putting fitz at L-1 yet, but I want him lynched.

But I also want MoI lynched.

What to do, what to do.

[Nobody Special]

NS - Why don't you want to put Fitz at L-1? If you think he's scum and you want him lynched, what's the big deal?

If you think he's scum, who's his partner (assuming there's two anyway)?

If you put him at L-1, the only people yet to vote are Fitz, MoI, and me. Fitz isn't going to vote for himself. If you believe that MoI is scum too, do you think he's going to vote for his partner? Do you think I'm going to just hammer and if I do what does it matter since you want him lynched anyway?

I wasn't

convinced

he's scum. I just thought so. Therefore, if he's town, then scum could conceivably quickhammer. (MoI is not voting, he's my better read as total scum. Mayhaps I oughta just vote him instead.)

I guess my main worry is that hf is scummy-looking-town and MoI will take advantage of that and quickhammer. Of course, MoI won't be here till late tonight, so it's less 'quick' and more 'hammer' but you get the idea.


Here's my issue with trying to get MoI lynched: My read on him is largely gut. He's alive past N1, and therefore, scum.

I am fairly sure (somewhere at about 85-90%) that there's two scum at this point.


God, I hate this game.

Vote: MoI

Some pairing thoughts: If hf is town, it's MoI and CES. If hf is scum, MoI is the last one. If, Tammy, you are indeed scum, I will be very, very upset. You're bleeding towniness right now.

If scum is framing MoI to be scum (by not actually NKing him), then it's hf and CES.

FNARGLE.

My main issue is that if we lynch town today, we lose, as I'm reasonably sure that there's two scum alive.


I need to re-read (AGAIN FFS) to see if scum is flailing today about mislynching. (Don't worry, that sentence makes sense inside my head.)

[Nobody Special]

How the hell did I miss an

entire page?

Lemme read and respond.

[Nobody Special]

Why didn't you want to put Jason at L-1? You've just said a similar thing about Having Fitz and not wanting to put him at L-1. What's up with that?

Here's my deal with this game: it started when I was essentially letting myself overload into too many games. I then got to the point of overwhelm and replaced out. Then the crash, then I felt sorry for Zach with the replacement climate post-crash, and elected to stay in. Now, I've since moved (personal life has gotten MUCH less stressful, but) and have a bit more time and focus for all games, BUT I've largely never felt very connected to this game. If I'm not fully grounded in a game, I'm wary of putting people at L-1 for fear of not really knowing what's going on.

unvote

Also, no, I never did double-iso Alice and MoI. I should do that.

Maybe.

I also need to double-iso CES/hf and hf/MoI.

Depending on how THAT turns out, then maybe CES/MoI. (And I'll just say right now that I'm very unlikely to go rooting around in the pre-crash game.)

Crap! NS - These are the two questions I had for you regarding the above post...

Why did you feel the need to go into so much over explanation about your helpfulness?

NS - Can you please focus and tell me what you think of MoI and Fitz? Please and thank you.

My overall site-meta is that of a mostly-useless Townie, and a very engaged scum. MoI knows this, and my sudden activity raised a very red flag for him, and he asked about it. It's a null thing, however, because Town!MoI has a history of ragging on me for my playstyle anyway, and Scum!MoI would use this to try to frame me (although he isn't really pushing for my lynch, exactly, so meh).




HEY FITZ: How about sharing that spreadsheet?

[Nobody Special]

Tammy: Do you think there's one or two scum left? percentages of that confidence?

[Nobody Special]

Who is scum?

If you had to shoot someone right now, compulsively, who would it be?

[Nobody Special]

MoI: Let's assume fitz is scum.

Who's his partner?

Or do you think there's a good chance there is no partner?

[Nobody Special]

Fascinating.

Here's my problem with you, MoI:

A) You're still alive.

B) You're almost certain that HF is scum.



*********




MoI: Can you give me a percentage of confidence at there being two scum left?

[Nobody Special]

I didn't say that I don't think fitz is scum -- I'm just not as apparently convinced as you are. It's your level of confidence that worries me.

[Nobody Special]

CES, I'm not seeing it.

Can you clarify?

[Nobody Special]

Yes, it could. While I think MoI would string town along like this, I really don't you're that sadistic. So,

Vote: havingfitz

[Nobody Special]

I, too, hate endgame.

So much so that I'm very tempted to just place a vote and see what happens, going with my gut.

But I really want to try to improve as a player, so I'm going to actually take the time, read back over the game, and try to be logical.

I'll have questions over the weekend.

Just to leave this here: Had I had a nightkill last night, I would've killed CES. I think he's a strong player, and I would want to pit Tamy vs. MoI in endgame, rather than have two evenly matched players against me. Now, if MoI is the killer, he could have used that logic and killed CES. I feel MoI would

definitely

have left me alive, solely for meta reasons. If Tammy was the killer, I can't really assume who she would've killed, simply beause I don't know her depth of knowledge in regard to me vs. MoI and me vs. CES.

And, we're back to: MoI is alive. That's just not right. He has to be scum.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if I were forced to vote now, he would be it.


P-Edit: Tammy, you're looking even more town. I hate this.

[Nobody Special]

I like your cases. You make sense. He's still alive, and shouldn't be.

I'll make it easier (harder?) on you:

Vote: MoI

[Nobody Special]

Good. I knew it was him.

I will help you in any way I can. I am town, and he is not.

[Nobody Special]

How was that insulting? I was just expressing my conviction that he wasn't town at all.

[Nobody Special]

I really am. I assumed you were talking to me, sorry.

[Nobody Special]

I confess: I'm Vanilla Town.

[Nobody Special]

Then you should vote for him.

[Nobody Special]

Understandable.

Anything I can help with?

[Nobody Special]

I feel your pain, honestly I do.

Anything I can do, really, just let me know.

[Nobody Special]

No, because as scum, I'd want to

not

be the first vote, so as to hammer the remaining townie, if possible.

Generally, IME, the first person to vote in LyLo is town. (There are exceptions.)

[Nobody Special]

You are correct. But I was lucky; I had an (almost) apathetic townie in endgame with me. But I also pulled out all the stops and was attacking rather actively. Note I'm not attacking here, I'm trying to help you make up your mind.

Yes, at one point I thought you were an excellent candidate for SK; largely because of Snake's escapades. The reason I voted MoI is partly gut (he's still alive) and partly because you've essentially become a lot more Town recently.

[Nobody Special]

I'm not really clear on whether I need to actually dodge a prod, but I'm posting anyway.

[Nobody Special]

The lack of effort is, in itself, inherently suspicious.

*Irritating*

--------------------------------

I have that effect on people, sadly. I'm not trying to justify it, but I get lulls in worktime and I join a bunch of games, then work picks up and I get rushed and I lurk a lot.

On the rare occasions I

do

roll scum, I'm (98% of the time) much more involved, like by orders of magnitude.

Ask anyone onsite, they'll agree. MoI has a history of screaming and yelling at me to increase my activity.

My wiki's way out of date, but if you want a recent(ish) scumgame of mine to read, I'll find my latest. (Although, to be honest, I get third party even more than I get scum. Go figure.)

[Nobody Special]

So, just to be helpful, I went through my games, from now backwards to.....

My last scum game was West Wing Mafia -- except not really, because I was Mafia Traitor (I knew them, they didn't know me) AND there's only the first 8 pages left after the crash.

I had to go ALL the way back to summer of 2011 to find Open 323, which I replaced into as scum, and won (17 pages).

Then we go back to June 2011, and we find that in Newbie 1113 I was scum and got lynched Day One (15 pages).

And that's as far back as I can see (that's when I started keeping my Role PMs in a separate folder).

[Nobody Special]

Fun Fact: My Role PM folder contains 80 PMs (although probably 10 or so are MishMash games); out of all those, I've only drawn scum three times.

[Nobody Special]

I forgot one: RedPanda's Vengeful just ended; I lost as Mafia Godfather. (I don't put a lot of stock in Vengefuls: they're very short and often display a distorted playstyle. YMMV.)

Can I just mention that MoI seems to not be posting a whole bunch? And might I mention that he had been fairly active during the weekdays prior to this particular Game Day?

Just, you know, food for thought.

[Nobody Special]

So everyone who is not voting fitz and not fitz himself has posted and NOT hammered.

So the following are the ONLY situations that make sense (aside from an asshole team stringing things out) -

1. Fitz is scum, or
2. Both CES and I are scum together, or
3. We only have 1 scum left so today isn't LYLO.

Mull this over ...

You forgot one. You're scum with fitz and (surprise!) stringing things along. Note that MoI was the second of three votes to lynch fitz; I was the hammer.

Why, if fitz were my partner, would I ignore him all game and then suddenly hammer?


Also this:

Fascinating response that is completely useless -

Why don't you think fitz is scum? He's been on the wrong side of the vote-count for every important lynch this game (voted for Palisade, did not vote for Jason) and his play reads as scum-fitz to me.

I didn't say that I don't think fitz is scum -- I'm just not as apparently convinced as you are. It's your level of confidence that worries me.

Also, this can be read as fitz trying desperately to point away from his last buddy.

[Nobody Special]

Hmmm. I wonder why he's

specifically

avoiding this thread. Could it be that he can't really make a good case on me because I'm town?

Hmmmmm.

[Nobody Special]

Tuesday's

just about

over, innit?

[Nobody Special]

HOW MANY TIMES did I say "Magna's still alive, he must be scum." ? HOW MANY??

I feel SO vindicated right now.

[Nobody Special]

Hush. Let me have what little glory I can get.

[Nobody Special]

Anytime.