Mini 332 - Camp Scum Lake - Mod Abandoned

[yellowbounder]

Random Vote: Rosso Carne

Mostly because it sounds Italian.[/b]

[yellowbounder]

Fos: ChannelDelibird

for not noticing that I have already posted.

[yellowbounder]

Sorry ChannelDelibird, but I did actually put a FoS, on you, but only because you failed to notice that I posted, which is bad form, if nothing else.

My impression on varian, and Rosso Carne's "argument" is that both are as suspious as the other for becoming agressesive, but that's not neccerily the mark of scum. Sometimes it's the people who are anything

but

agressive that are the scummy, since they don't want to attract attention to themselves. But the whole thing is very WIFOM, so you can't scumerize someone just because they are agressive.

The current person I'm currently mildy suspitious about is Serinah80 for her quick random voting, and her bandwagoning of Rosso Carne.

[yellowbounder]

I've read all the previous posts, and it seems that ChannelDelibird isn't trying to cover anything up.

However, Maverick is being the one who has been the most agressive in the day, and although I'm not going to label him scum, it's almost pointless trying to get lynched just to prove a point. This is suspisious, if nothing else, so I'll slap down a

FoS: Maverick

[yellowbounder]

Not understanding things, can be scummy, as an excuse of ignorance.
"Oh, I didn't know he was going to do that," in defence of your actions.

Not that it IS scummy, but it could be a possible tactic, and it is best for the town to stay up to date with what is happening.

[yellowbounder]

Okay, well after

I-don't-know-how-long

I'm back! Almost back from the dead considering my contribution, which I confess is probably a bit more than slightly short.

First off,

Unvote: Rosso Carne

since, random voting is long over.

But I'll start by posting a vauge analysis of the players in the game, with any relavant quotes. The colour indicated the level of suspision that I personally have. Note that I've included Lurker since it would be unfair to judge those who haven't posted enough. Lurking is bad, and so thus I've been bad, but I'm not going to label those lurkers SCUM, because unless they lurk totally to every single possibility, I'm not going to prounounce anything.

Mafia

Possibly Mafia

Suspisious

Unknown

Not Suspitious

Possibly Town

Town

Lurker

warpdragon = A bit of a lurker, but I can hardly talk.

Rosso Carne = His and Varian's little tussle started the serious discussion and put suspision on them both. Personally, I just think he's probably not scum, but still is a bit of a jerk/agressive.

ChannelDelibird = Always provides valuable points that make sense. Not pointing fingers without valid reason, and justifies most votes. Probably town.

yellowbounder = I think he's intelligent, witty, brave, good looking, and a lurker.

Erotomachia = The

lurker

person-who-does-not-post-very-much with an avatar of some hands. Not much to be said.

serinah80 = The self claimed "teenage girl" that is suspitious of ChannelDelibird meerly because of his logical and Sherlock Holmes demeanor.

B Rob = With his massive post that he apparantly posted 3 three times, by accident, he has provided an exellent summary of day 1 so far. He seems to be town.

Varian = The one-without-the-avatar-and-thus-difficult-to-analyse-since-I-always-misplace-his -posts. He is agressive, and seems to be pro-discussion without giving much to the discussion to begin with. Tends to agree with previous points than rather bring new food to the table.

Twito = Hangs around in the background, pressed B Rob for a roleclaim, but not automaticly scum, just suspitious.

Maverick = The one who points out the lack of contribution on everyone else's part. Not sure about this one.

TB = Not much comment. No particular scummy behaviour, but hardly saving-the-mayor-on-a-horse-protown-behaviour.

PBuG = Not much either.

That sums up my opinions, so that's all.

[yellowbounder]

Well, I've prepared a summary of Day 1, but I realised as I got to the bit with B Rob's massive post, that it was covering roughly the same thing. But I'll post it anyway, because a new perspective is always good, and it might remove some of the imagery that I never contribute.

Day 1 Summary

Random Voting

People voted a lot. Not much else, since random voting starts the game by providing conflict.

Varian vs. Rosso Carne

This argument started Varian defined what a maverick was, and Rosso Carne complained that this was an insult to his intelligence.

unvote, vote:varian

for thinking im stupid enough not to open freaking wikipedia.

Then various people took the sides of the brawlers. Anti-Varians consisted of Rosso Carne and Channel Delibird, while anti-Rosso Carnes, consited of Varian and serinah80.

Serinah80's Third Vote

Serinah80 recived two votes from ChannelDelibird and Maverick for putting the third vote on Rosso Carne, (the other two being Varian, and yours truly via a random vote).

Rosso Carne also expressed his suspisions about serinah80.

unvote
vote

Rosso Carne

If Varian over reacted, then Rosso started it by being agressive.
Acting like a jerk means acting like a scum in my book. Especially so early in the game...

(note: I didn't say he was a jerk, I said he acted like it.)

8)

Here's one to say: I am, in fact, a jerk. =D

You're argument is so wierd, I don't kno where to begin. Maybe with, like, there are certain people in this world that would always be considered scummy on those grounds. On that note,

unvote

and throw a true and actual

FOS:serinah

for trying to start an early bandwagon on crap data.

Varian, however, pointed out that the third vote when it took seven to lynch, was not terribly important.

And since when is placing the 3rd vote when it takes 7 so horrible? If he placed the 6th, ok. But the 3rd? I'd say you guys are the ones trying to build a bandwagon out of air.

Meanwhile in

Varian vs. Rosso Carne

Erotomachia claimed that Rosso Carne was more agressive than Varian (post 38 ), and pBug voted for Rosso Carne (post 40).

Back On The Ranch in

Serinah80's Third Vote

Serinah80 defended her vote hopping, as a noobish random vote jumping.

Also I don't see how two random votes are suspicious. I'm a noob and I like to jump around with voting here and there. Why is it suspicious on the first day if we don't really know anything anyway? All votings are random in their nature anyway.

In response to this ChannelDelibird unvoted her.

First of all,

unvote: Serinah80

I think you're confusing the word 'impression' with 'argument' here. But anyway, I see the point you're trying to make about the random votes, serinah, but really after you've done one it's a bit pointless and needlessly confusing to do a second. I would normally interpret it as a way to mask not wanting to lynch the person you originally random voted for.

But I agree with B Rob - it's not helping because it's not about anything remotely important. The only way we'll get useful information about behaviour is if it's in reaction to something actually related to the game.

Which leads us into...

Maverick's Jumps

Maverick accused ChannelDelibird of 'agreement without contribution'.

Alright,

Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird

You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

Serinah80 claimed that Maverick was becoming suspitious due to his jumping and pointing at everyone.

I think you're confusing the word 'impression' with 'argument' here. But anyway, I see the point you're trying to make about the random votes, serinah, but really after you've done one it's a bit pointless and needlessly confusing to do a second. I would normally interpret it as a way to mask not wanting to lynch the person you originally random voted for.

ChannelDelibird got my meaning. I forgot that you use the word "impress" with a positive meaning only in English. My apologies.

And thanks for clearing up the reason why continuous random voting can be suspicious. I hadn't thought about it. You mean, that if I and Maverick were a scum, I could easily make him my random vote and then quicly change it to mask a cooperation?
Well, that's not what happened here. I was just being silly.

Alright, Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird
You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

- Maverick.



I'm not sure that ChannelDelibird hasn't shared his own ideas nor given new helpful information. But even if it is true, it does not show that he's a scum. I don't think I have either. You can hardly say that comment about knives is relevant, can't you?
Another thought. If CB would not post his reflections on the situation, you could accuse him in lurking. And I think you would.

Which brings me to my main thought. Why are you so jumpy and pointing at everyone all the time? Your actions are far more suspecious than ChannelDelibird's.

Unvote Rosso Crane

Fos: Maverick.

Maverick claimed that he was agressive on purpose to start discussion.

Finally some good discussion. I've been overly aggressive the entire game on purpose and nobody, until now has noticed.. or at least said anything about it. All I'm trying to do is to start conversation that will actually lead to something, not trying to make myself suspicious.

As of now, I'm happy with my vote on ChannelDelibird, because I still say that he's trying too hard to cover something. He may not be scum, but from all we have to go by, in my opinion he is the most suspicious.

Oh and Serinah80, just so you know you didn't bold your unvote so the mod won't get it.

BRob then voted Maverick anyway.
ChannelDelibird also became suspisious (see post 63).

Interlude: Twito Arguments

Twito breaks the lurker cycle and comes out with suspisions for ChannelDelibird.

Rosso Carne first completely over reacted and replied something that made no sence since what Varian had said had nothing to do with him. He even votes based on this completely made up evidence. Then Varian pointed this out and (counter?)voted Rosso Carne for acting like moron. Rosso counter confirmvoted after that which is a scum tell to me.

Then ChannelDelibird fosses Varian for over reacting even though Rosso had first agressively over reacted.
serinah80 points out Rossos behavior and votes him.
Maverick votes serinah saying that serinah didn’t give argument againts Rosso when he voted even though he did. Looks like Maverick is trying to re-direct the conversation away from Rosso.
ChannelDelibird hops on serinah wagon.
Rosso unvotes his confirmed vote and fosses serinah for trying to start an early bandwagon on crap data even though there is currently an attempt to start wagon on serinah with worse data. Since when is placing the 3rd vote when it takes 7 so horrible?

B Rob makes his first post. Right away he fosses both Varian and Rosso saying that conversation is useless. Imo that has given some nice info.

ChannelDelibird unvotes Serinah80 as he notices that wagon didn’t catch fire. Doesn’t really give any reason as to why he unvotes.
Then agrees with B Rob hoping that ppl ignore the whole conversation.

Maverick Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird. No reason given for Serinah unvote other than the vote on ChannelDelibird which imo has some good points.

Serinah now unvotes Rosso Crane and fosses Maverick.

As interest againts earlier suspects has fallen B Rob now tries to direct the conversation on me with kinda shit reasons since he blames me for only posting 2 times and he himself has only posted 2 times.

Based on that:

Vote ChannelDelibird

and fosses on many others.

Then warpdragon breaks his lurker cycle as well, and argues against ChannelDelibird.

Hello all. Sorry for not posting more, but I was out of town.

I have read the thread and feel that Twito is trying to take up space and make it look like his posts mean anything. He also makes it look like he accidental messed up his unvoting of ChannelDelibird, however, he was never voting him to begin with. In fact, his vote should still be on varian. Interestingly enough, he neither names his fos's nor fos's CDB when he feints the unvote.

Vote: Twito

B Rob looks to be taking the easy way out with the lurker wagon but is in reality not helping the town because he did not even notice I had not said anything. The varian and rosso carne argument was a lot of overreaction but it did lead to some good discussion for dissection. ChannelDelibird also seems kind of suspicious, but maverick does as well. I'll need a little more time to sort that one out.

Back to

Maverick's Jumps

TB agrees that Maverick is agressive and votes him.

B Rob Band

This band started when Maverick accused B Rob of lurking, and taking the easy way out.

Actually I don't recall ever asking to be lynched, all I said is that if you don't believe that I'm town I can't convince you so the only way to find out for sure is to lynch me. I guess that means "Lynch me please", because that's how your taking it.

Also

Unvote: ChannelDelibird, Vote: B Rob

Because BRob is playing one of the weirdest games I've seen.. he starts off saying hardly anything and somewhat lurking as to cover something. Then he votes someone else for the same reason and when someone notices he unvotes and starts talking a lot, and now seems to be taking the easiest bandwagon possible "The guy 'asking' to be lynched". ChannelDelibird quickly follows, not to say they started the wagon but they definately have made it an official wagon. Right now you two are the most suspicious to me.

Varian comes along for the ride as well.

B Rob then analyses Maverick and deems him town, as well as unvoting him.

Maverick, if you weren't seeking your own lynch, then you should be more clear about it. This post is about as clear as mud:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

This is what you say in the following order:
1) Lynch me because then you'll see my alignment.
2) You shouldn't lynch me.
3) Lynching me may not help you find any scum.
4) Lynching me would reduce the number of players, which would help you find scum.

Then you post this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

It really seems like you want to be lynched.

Hmm... after reading his posts again, I think Maverick is town. As for weather or not he was asking to be lynched, I think it's debatable at best. I'm going to

Unvote: Maverick

However, ChannelDelibird still argues that Maverick's arguments are confusing the town.

He's still doing a very good job of confusing the town with all this though. He's an experienced player, so I'm leaning more towards the idea that he's deliberately doing that rather than the idea that he's just getting tangled up in his own thoughts. Vote stands.

Rosso Carne votes B Rob for unvoting.

Wow, and we find another victim of "Oh fuck, someone suspects me, I better unvote" syndrome. Honestly, this is time and time again classic IE scumtell. Add in the fact that You seem to be backing but not overall connecting to serinah, and BRob definitely has scummy on him.

Vote:BRob

TB votes Rosso Carne for being protective of Maverick

All right, that post is the limit.

Unvote, vote Rosso Carne

.
I'm getting the feeling that Maverick's buddy's are trying to protect him by attacking B Rob, while the arguments they use are extremely poor.
I understand B Rob's reasons for unvoting, and I was tempted to unvote myself, but since Maverick was still the most supicious guy in my book, I didn't. With this post:

I also had other scummy vibes from you, and none from mav.

that completely changed.
I don't think it's possible to get no scummy vibes from Mav. By don't explaining yourself on the "other scummy vibes" you don't have a lot of evidence.

Either Maverick is scum and Rosso Carne is trying to protect him, or Maverick is protown and Rosso Carne is scum trying to convince other people that they shouldn't e making a mislynch, thus gaining the trust of the town.

14 posts later, B Rob votes Varian for being the most scummy.

If someone asks to be lynched, ignore that, and judge them based on other things. For instance, if I was getting attacked from all sides, even if I was town, sooner or later, if my defense kept failing, I would just be like "Fine, lynch me then." Its a sign of frustration, and that is no where near the level of LAL.

That sounds more like an admission of defeat then a sign of frustration. But that's semantics.

Its not that hard to ignore a "Fine, lynch me" comment and make a vote based on everything else aside from it. If they

are

scum, chances are they'll have more scummy indicators than just that.

What are Maverick's other scummy indicators? Remember, you are voting for me because I unvoted Maverick.

Honestly, this is a matter of opinion, and if you want to lynch me over my idea, then you need to rethink your standards.

Unvote: Rosso Carne Vote: Varian

I think either or both of them could be scum. Varian seems the scummiest at this point.

The old serinah80 vs. ChannelDelibird argument shows up for ten posts, before finally being resolved.

ChannelDelibird - logical, thinks through everything he says. I personally find this type of players the most suspicious. maybe it's because I'm the exact opposite by nature. I don't understand sherlocks. so FoS CDB.

You think I'm scum because I play differently to you? WTF?

FoS: serinah

It is not in your best interests to just get rid of everything you 'don't understand'.

Me not geting you might be because my way of thinking is different than yours. "I don't understand you" should be actually read here: "I can't imagine what it's like to be a methodical and logical person." So here I'm basically saying that your actions might not be suspecious but I only see them like that.

That is the point that I recognised you making and was concerned about. I have not been twisting your words but I don't think there's any point pursuing this argument any more, we've both got our points across.

PBug, in post 138, thinks that B Rob is jumpy.

Vote: B Rob

very jumpy. Suspects anyone that votes for him. Hmmmmmm...

TB, wtf.

which means that there is a good chance they are scum trying to get us lynching each other.. [/b]

Have you played mafia before? That would be an extemely bad assumption of three players, two of which are highly experienced.

Then, Twito pushes B Rob for a roleclaim.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

B Rob then puts forward his arugument that Day 1 roleclaimers only benefit scum.

I haven't posted because I'm working on a long analytical post. I should be done by later tonight. If you lynch me before then, then town deserves to lose.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

No.

Day 1 roleclaims only benefit scum.

Maverick puts foward the possiblity that B Rob could be town.

Pbug, there are many votes on BRob right now, and I can't recall right off hand of more than one person he's suspected that has voted for him. I'm starting to think BRob may be town, but as of now none of us really have anything else to go by. I don't know about pbug either though, he doesn't post much, then when he does his information either doesn't help at all, or doesn't make since. Then calling himself a highly expierenced player, even if it is true I don't like cockiness. Just my opinion though.

And finally, for the last major event in Day 1, B Rob posts his famous post, thrice. This causes a stream of unvoting due generally to "major contribution".

And so that is all I have to offer at this time.
I'm not trying to get in the way of B Rob's post, this is meerly a summary, as I see events. I hope this helps in some respect. I hope this qualifies as a major contribution.

[yellowbounder]

In the second part of my summary, I'll put down what I think.

When I went over it once I posted it, I'm actually suspisious of someone.

Vote: Twito

Look at it this way, he pushed B Rob for a roleclaim on day 1, he doesn't say much in his posts, and made a couple of false accusations, such as ChannelDelibird trying to start a bandwagon while I didn't find much evidence to suggest this.

warpdragon: That was actually the wrong name, I checked my original Real(tm) paper notes, and it had Twito, instead of ChannelDelibird. Sorry.

That's all.

[yellowbounder]

He

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

There's that, and his accusations of CD starting a bandwagon, which I didn't see much evidence of when I did my summary, and the fact he's not saying much in his posts, like I've heard it before. Besides, as ChannelDelibird said above, it might start discussion. And as Maverick said, we need some.

[yellowbounder]

I'm back, after a long headache. Give me time to read through the thread, and I will give my opinions pronto.

[yellowbounder]

Most recently today, was chef and Maverick claiming masonhood. Personally I think this is slightly out of the blue, and thus cannot avoid looking odd. Since the claim hasn't been counter claimed there are multiple options.

= Chef and Maverick are scum, and the masons are keeping their identity quiet
= Chef and Maverick are scum, and there aren't any masons, period
= Chef and Maverick are actually really masons

I agree with BRob's point that the claim is just missing something, although in most aspects it seems fairly solid. I wouldn't mind hearing this mysterious hint that BRob has promised today.[/list]

[yellowbounder]

I looked back at the thread, and first of all I think that Maverick was on Varian's side of the Rosso Carne/Varian argument.

Also, I found this:

I think it would be a bad idea to lynch Maverick.

Even if he

did

ask to be lynch, how is it any manner of productive to actually do it if you don't think he's scum?

The mason claim certainly makes sense, or at least, they were defending each other. This doesn't rule out the possiblility of them being scum, but the base argument of those two being associated with each other isn't unfounded.

[yellowbounder]

Vote: B Rob

, for two reasons.

First off, I'm slightly confused about the last post of his, because... assumming someone is innocent is... a... bad thing?

Secondly, so the people who aren't on holiday/limited access/broke so no internet fees would start talking/posting again.

[yellowbounder]

You are an Evil Camper. You were sent to camp by your parents, and you can't wait to get home. You're not above a little murder to get your wishes, either. Neither is Rosso Carne, and you've also found a disgruntled Camp Counselor in warpdragon willing to help.

- Your camp counselor is in charge of submitting nightly kills. If he becomes indisposed, either you or the other camper may submit the kill.
- You may talk at night with your fellow evil campers.
- You win when only evil campers remain.

'twas my first mini and I was a bit quiet, admittadly. But that was mostly because I had had no experience in acting town, since this and my first mini gave me scum roles.

[yellowbounder]

I don't actually know what happened to our N0 kill.
That was irritating, espically since we actually got no kills.