Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[Thor665]

Virtual bearded lap dance to first person who mans up enough to explain either case to me.

[DeityKabuto]

Will catch up tomorrow.

Saying you will catch up means nothing, saying what you've learned after you catch up means something, and that one has a lot more effect on your status (scum, town, werewolf).

[CMPunk]

@CM - you're missing a scum.

Yea, I was aware I only listed 3 of 4. The rest are giving town reads (or i think they are town) so we have one scum coming across town to me and hiding well. I have scum reads on 3... can't figure the 4th.

[Shadowmod]

Thor665 (2/5) - havingfitz , whispersilk , BBmolla , DeityKabuto DeityKabuto (0/5) - Thor665 CMPunk (3/5) - DonJosh , Sky , havingfitz BBmolla (0/5) - CMPunk havingfitz (1/5) - Thor665 DonJosh (4/5) - whispersilk , DeityKabuto , BBmolla , CMPunk Not Voting (0/8): With 8 Players alive it requires 5 Votes to lynch / 4 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday September 19th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-09-19 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[whispersilk]

Hey Thor, why aren't you voting for DJ?

[whispersilk]

I've changed my mind... notice of intent to hammer Thor when I get back home

::shrug:: claim town I guess?

Definitely a scum heavy wagon on me.
Fitz is a top suspect for reasons stated.
Whisper is highly unlikely partner to fitz, so if he flips scum she's highly likely town in just a general sense.

One of DK/DonJosh is almost definitely scum - they need to be lynched.

BB needs more attention too - his presence on wagons and pushes over the last few days in general is suspect.
CM is probably not mafia - he might be a wolf angling for town points in the defense of me, but I personally kinda doubt it.

Catch you all flip side where, mostly, I'll mock fitz

This is your chance to see wut's up.

[Thor665]

This is your chance to actually explain your vote switch and the case you've been promising for days as opposed to sticking to the lollercoaster of fitz logic that says I'm really excited to see DJ lynched, which I have been very clear and functional about stating my views on despite your intentional efforts to ignore half of what I say and take the rest out of context.

[DeityKabuto]

Hey Thor, why aren't you voting for DJ?

[Thor665]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUU-

[Sky]

The case for CMPunk is there in every post she writes. How can you not have a 4th suspect. As always, I'm wary of people that find town in people. It's a hard thing to find

[DeityKabuto]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUU-

Is something wrong, Thor?

Are you saying that there is someone you'd rather lynch than DonJosh?

[Thor665]

The case for CMPunk is there in every post she writes.

There's no way that's a good case then. I've never seen scum who are so bad that every post is scummy.
It doesn't concern you that no one can even point to a functional CM=scum case?
I almost never make cases, and even I seem to have generated larger cases. At least if someone was going 'PoE off Thor's stuff' we could have a discussion about the CM question. But everybody is just kind of grunting and saying CM is scum...feels like a mislynch to me. What's your take?

@DK - Fire, go die in it.

[BBmolla]

Someone should really hammer DonJosh. He's not even offering up any sort of defense even though he's at L-1.

[DeityKabuto]

Thor is voting havingfitz who is voting CMPunk who is voting DonJosh who is voting CMPunk.

[havingfitz]

I *really* like the BB, and DK slots for possible scum, their locations suggest scum slinkage and proper positioning to my mind. Fitz is a high suspect for me because for someone grumping about tunneling and narrow focus - he is the epitome of that, and he's been *super* dodgy about explaining his reads and no one but me seems to notice, which is probably how he's getting away with it, quite frankly.

Puh-leese. My issue with your tunneling is that it occurred on Day one which is when we have the least information on anyone to work with and should be more apt to doubt ourselves and explore all possibilities. You did not do this. You locked in on Ray while many players were still pretty much in RVS iirc and stayed there. I do not have a problem with tunneling your top suspect when you have valid reasons for suspecting said suspect. Translation...my tunnelling of you is completely different to your tunneling of Ray.

Also...I like how you are afraid to hammer the person you claim was not scum and yet who you have been pushing for his lynch from the back seat. Maybe you are afraid to be on another mislynch?

The Thor wagon disappearing is still amazing to me. All but one or two players (ie his scum partner/s) should be pushing his lynch. As for the rest of your post 970...it has no meat. You leave yourself off the wagons you reference and you throw out wags without fact or evidence as to how many scum you hypothesize are on each of them. Uhhhhhhhhhh...I think there are three on the first, one on the second, and none on the third. Wow...now I've contributed something worthwhile.

Lastly, as for your *really* like wagons of BB and DK....I know you suspect DK for your foolproof PoE...but when did BB become a *really* good suspect to you? Iirc you were anointing him town earlier in the game. WTF? So you suspect DK and BB. Me of course. And you be happy lynching DJ despite not think he is scum and in the position to do so as we speak.

More later (today hopefully)

[havingfitz]

.....the lollercoaster of fitz logic that says I'm really excited to see DJ lynched, which I have been very clear and functional about stating my views on.....

---

4 scum left are thor, fitz, sky and DJ.

What's the case for DonJosh scum? I don't see it at all.

We just had one scum lynched from the three player block - so it downshifts the likelihood of more scum being there because 2 of the other 4 scum probably wouldn't have been that tight onto their buddy. So, if CM is a Wolf I'm reasonably in support of the lynch idea in general, but I'm guessing only one Wolf was even on that wagon, and there's a smaller pool if we're hunting wolves.

If we're hunting mafia I'd like to lynch either DK or DonJosh.

[Thor665]

Good job fitz - you have proven the lollercoaster once again.

For starters, even in your bold you're ignoring the "if we're hunting mafia" part of that line, and also ignoring how I've previously indicated strong preference for lynching DK first of the pair.

Second off - WHAT'S THE CASE FOR DONJOSH THAT THE REST OF YOU ARE USING, BECAUSE YOU ALL MOCK MY POE SO *CLEARLY* YOU'RE NOT USING THAT SO WHETHER OR NOT MY POE MAKES ME THINK HE'S VIABLE MAFIA DOES JACK AND SPIT TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU THINK HE'S SCUM - DERPY-DOO-DAH-DINGLEHEADS!

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, or *are* you guys using my PoE and just disagree with which one I think should go first...and are all sheeping my logic despite wanting to lynch me earlier...and are obvious scum...and by "you" I mostly mean fitz, but, yes.

[whispersilk]

Warning: WALL POST

These were my original thoughts on DJ - none of which he responded to:

Spoiler:

• DonJosh - neutral (leaning scum)

My read on DJ is still neutral, but with a scum lean. Sometimes I think he might be scum, then he'll make a post that somewhat mirrors my own thoughts or reads, and I'll lean town. For that reason, I'm keeping him neutral (leaning scum) in my mind until he does or says something scummy, or starts exhibiting more towny behaviour.

I liked his reads in this post, especially his read on TheFool, Ray and Sky (because I had the same thoughts):

TheFool : Scum
Nothing but fluff and scummy wagon-hopping.

CMPunk: Scum
See above

DK : Town
His reactions are pro-town.

Thor : Town
It may be WIFOM, but I don't think scum would be so outgoing and enthusiastic. He is, however, tunneling Ray.

Ray : Null
You, sir, are rather hard to read

Sky : Null
Some posts are town, some are scum-ish

Everyone else is null.

I don't think much of redundant and obvious statements such as this:

So Ray flipped town... where does this put Thor?

Uhm, yeah, I noticed that Ray flipped town, but thanks for pointing out the obvious for those folks that might have missed the epic lynch post. /thumbs up

(kinda seems you were trying to feign surprise, imo)

and this:

There are scum on this wagon. No doubt about it.

There

has

to have been at least 2 scum on it from your perspective. I don't see the point in pointing out something that is so obvious.

Also, I don't like behaviour:

1) You went the entire day voting TheFool (with good reason).
2) Then briefly hopped to CMPunk (giving no reason whatsoever).
3) Then 19 hours later you suddenly, and without reason, jump on the Ray wagon, AGAIN giving no reason of your own for the vote, you just quoted a huge post of Thor's regarding Ray and voted for him, like that somehow excuses you from giving a reason of your own. Then believing you had taken Ray to L-1, you seemed pretty eager for DK to hammer him, imo.

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

OBVIOUSLY someone at L-1 is not hammered until they have had a chance to defend one last time and/or claim. Even if they are AWOL from the game.

Stay with me here folks...

DJ's reads:

Done reading. Quick Reads...

TheFool : Scum
Nothing but fluff and scummy wagon-hopping.

CMPunk: Scum
See above

DK : Town
His reactions are pro-town.

Thor : Town
It may be WIFOM, but I don't think scum would be so outgoing and enthusiastic. He is, however, tunneling Ray.

Ray : Null
You, sir, are rather hard to read

Sky : Null
Some posts are town, some are scum-ish

Everyone else is null.

UNVOTE: DK
VOTE: TheFool

DJ@Thor (talking about Thor's wagon on Ray):

As much as I agree with you now, my vote stays on TheFool.

FoS: RayM
HoS: CMPunk

Notice how he now jumps from one of his two scum reads, right to the other scum read:

I was reading Thor's ISO, and I agree with pretty much all his points. However, looking at the wagon

(Ray's wagon again)

, all my scum reads are on it.

UNVOTE: TheFool
VOTE: CMPunk

Let's take a look at Ray's wagon at the time:

Ray Montano (5/7) -

Thor665

,

The Tick, DeityKabuto, TheFool, FightingShadow, DeityKabuto

,

TheFool, CMPunk

, BBmolla, blindfaeth

His only scum reads were on Ray's wagon, along with one of his two town reads. Sounds like he wants to sheep Thor, but is worried because both his only two scum suspects are on that wagon. Fair enough.

But then a few posts later, and after a bunch more people have jumped on Ray's wagon, he quotes this post of Thor's and changes his vote:

Still, for just a couple seconds, pretend you're the teacher and I'm the student. Teach me why we should whack this guy.

I've said it a few times before and have apparently hit a brick wall with most of the players, but let me try yet another rendition - I'm an optimistic guy;

1. Ray is playing in a way that has no scumhunting - he's keeping reads close to his chest and not putting out any difficulties to prevent him from voting any way he pleases.

This is scummy because it let's him go "always suspected 'Player X' whenever he feels like it and helps him avoid being caught in any sort of contradiction of reads.

2. When approached by a player he believes is town, who is tunneling him, he does nothing to help the player un-tunnel and instead mocks his case and ability to form reads.

This is scummy because if you believe someone is town you don't want them tunneled, and certainly not on you. Also, if you think someone is town you should at least try to get them to talk out their reads and explain your issues with them to educate them - after all, you may be counting on them for your wincon later. Having a player beaten down to the point no one will listen to them is only helpful if that player is not on your side.

3. Refuses to back up statements he made by producing quotes.

This is...well...more annoying than scummy. But if I say something to someone, and they call me on it, I LOVE to produce the evidence to prove I'm right. It ends the debate, makes me feel like a real man and be a stallion in bed with women, and also advances the game onwards. Inability to do this suggests you're, well, just making stuff up and hoping no one will call you on it. Also known as lying. Lying is not pro-town.

4. The only reads Ray has offered have been three scum reads on three lurkers (for the crime of lurking) and one town read on me that he then shifted to a null.

This is scummy because these are wimpy easy reads that scum love (scum on lurkers for lurking) and he called me town while I was attacking him, and then shifted me to null when I kept attacking him, which to my mind suggests I was correct when I said his town read on me was an attempt to buy me off and get me to leave him alone. He shifted it to null right when lots of other players started voting me in, my opinion, a pretty clear setup to allow him to vote me if I became wagon of choice after he'd been calling me town.

Does that help?
Or is water not wet if you ignore the moistness?

UNVOTE: CMPunk
VOTE: Ray Montano

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

So eager to hammer and the next day so sincere...

So Ray flipped town... where does this put Thor?
Personally, it doesn't change my town read.

Ray Montano (7/7) - Thor665 , The Tick , DeityKabuto , TheFool , FightingShadow , DeityKabuto , TheFool , CMPunk , BBmolla , blindfaeth , DonJosh , blindfaeth , DeityKabuto

There are scum on this wagon. No doubt about it.
I'd put my money on TheFool and CMPunk

No shit, his only two scum reads were on it, which remember, was the reason he gave for not following Thor, but wtf, he ended up jumping on anyway.

Day 2, and he is back to voting for CMPunk.

I'm being run up for the scumtell of being "wrong" aren't I?

D1, I asked you if Ray flipped town, would you blame yourself, and you replied 'Yes, I would take the blame'.

Way before that I suspected you, and as a scum it's normal for you to admit taking the blame to appear Townie and confident with your read on Ray.

vote: DeityKabuto

Seems scum would go out of their way to pin this on Thor. Yes, he said he would take the blame if Ray flipped town but that does not make Thor scum IMO. It just made him wrong, like 6 other people were including me (Yes it took 7 to lynch, not just Thor)

Being wrong is NOT scum IMO

Pushing what seems to be a policy lynch on someone who was wrong, simply because they were wrong is Scummy.

Thor had no reason to stick his head out and say if I am wrong I take responsibilty, that is pretty big burden for someone to take, and putting themselves way out in the open, which scum/wolves want to avoid.

Thor is town

This post + My reads from yesterday = VOTE: CMPunk

He even states his two top scum reads again in this post:

Also, I'd literally put my money on a CMPunk/TheFool scumteam.
IIRC, there are 2 werewolves and 3 mafia?

and this one too:

Eh. While it is more likely that there are scum on the wagon than off, that is only because the wagon is the bigger group. This doesn't in itself increase the odds of any given person on the wagon of being scum; statistically that's a 50% chance for each person either way.

If you think their reasons for being on the wagon are suspect that's one thing, but approaching the problem mathematically is the wrong way to go.

BADBADBADBADBAD
I'd say CMPunk today, this guy tomorrow.

oh wait...he says it here too:

1. Despite misgivings he's still more town looking than you or CM - sorry, deal with it.
2. Not scum in the last three votes of a Day 1 wagon on town with 5 scum available? Really? Where the heck were the scum then, 2-3 in the first 4 votes and then 2-3 in the three votes off the wagon? Derp-derp-herp, amirite?

Yeah, I get that, but it still seems like a jump from that to "blindfaeth is dramatically scummier than CMPunk because he was next to townier people on the wagon".

Also, I'm not sure how it's so derp-derp-herp to assume that the votes were scattered non-uniformly.

And yeah, the signiture thing is pretty pointless.

This guy goes up a notch on my scum list every post...

zomg, would you believe it?...

I will be V/LA until the 28th due to camp. I will accept replacement at the mod's discretion.

As for my thoughts, I stand by my previous statement: CMPunk today, TheFool tomorrow.

But wait, just 3 posts later he says this:

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

As for faeth, he's been real scummy the last few pages, and since kondi never posted, it's really all we have. Lynching faeth would be fine, too.

Yes folks, for the second time he agrees with Thor and declares blind scummy, despite never having given him a scum read before then. However, he leaves his vote on CM and disappears for a week.

Let's take a look at that blind wagon at the time:

blindfaeth (2/6) -

Thor665

,

TheFool

Look familiar? Are we seeing a pattern yet here guys?

By the time DJ returns and before he catches up, blind is lynched. I voted for him, so did TheFool, Sky, BB and CM. havingfitz did not.

Then he disappears again, and a week later says this:

TheFool was scum? Wow, who would have guessed. /sarcasm

Can we PLEASE lynch CM today? I still don't think Thor is scum.

and this:

I forgot my vote...

VOTE: CMPunk

I've had similar reads with TheFool and CMPunk since the start. I would bet money that CMPunk is Mafia.

Also, how about the seer? Does anyone else think they should claim? If not today, definitely tomorrow.

To sum up:

• DJ has only had two scum reads throughout the entire game - TheFool and CMPunk
  
• He has never built or presented a case for either of them despite voting for both of them throughout the game...
  
• oh wait, that's unless he's sheeping Thor and switching to the Ray wagon; the wagon he said he didn't like because it had his only two scum reads on it...
  
• and supporting the blind wagon that yet again featured his only two scum suspects.
  
• He's only ever had two scum reads despite there being 5 scum in this game.
  
• He is AWOL constantly, and when he is here, he offers nothing except to sheep other peoples scum reads and post useless shit.
  
• He is yet to defend himself despite being at L-1.

[DeityKabuto]

How stubborn of you Thor.

I'd expect better coming from you.

[havingfitz]

Prod to DJ mod.

Tick tock....

---

Good job fitz - you have proven the lollercoaster once again.

For starters, even in your bold you're ignoring the "if we're hunting mafia" part of that line, and also ignoring how I've previously indicated strong preference for lynching DK first of the pair.

So are you saying when you said you didn't see any scum case on DJ that you actually meant there wasn't a wolf case on him? But there was a mafia case?
Cause that's what it looks like you are saying. I'm not ignoring anything. You are tap dancing and having a hard time not tripping over your beard. You say DJ is not scum but then you say he's your lynch choice, along w/ DK, if we're hunting mafia. BULLSHIT

Also...I do not see DJ being mafia due to his D1 efforts towards The Fool and likewise his suspions towards CM, which I share. Granted it could be bussing but I don't think so. So it's interesting to me that I could only see him as a wolf whereas you could only see him as mafia (despite no aforementioned scum case on him of course)

@town-still not too late for a Thor wagon.

[Thor665]

@fitz - serious question, do you believe anyone voting DJ besides whisper just now, has functionally made a case on him? (and you're silly and I've made my case - so read m0ar)

[Sky]

I don't know what you're talking about Thor. When someone is scummy I lynch them. If the posts remain scummy I still lynch them. Lynching scummy people is a bit of a no brainer.

[Shadowmod]

Prod to DJ mod.

Tick tock....

Some one pointed out we have another slacker? I am on his scent trail already.

DonJosh has been prodded. It's his third prod. I won't tolerate further inactivity.

[havingfitz]

Good job fitz - you have proven the lollercoaster once again.

For starters, even in your bold you're ignoring the "if we're hunting mafia" part of that line, and also ignoring how I've previously indicated strong preference for lynching DK first of the pair.

So are you saying when you said you didn't see any scum case on DJ that you actually meant there wasn't a wolf case on him? But there was a mafia case? Cause that's what it looks like you are saying.

I'm not ignoring anything. You are tap dancing and having a hard time not tripping over your beard. You say DJ is not scum but then you say he's your lynch choice, along w/ DK, if we're hunting mafia. BULLSHIT

^?????????????

Also Thor...I have not considered DJ one of my primary suspects so to be honest I have not looked at the reasons people have been voting him and therefore could not tell you what their cases are. Ask them. I do know you were ok with his lynch but now appear to have gone on the offensive towards those voting him. Seems a bit hypocritical. And why are you voting me again? This despite your apparent suspicions towards DJ and DK. And BB?? Which reminds me...

Lastly, as for your *really* like wagons of BB and DK....I know you suspect DK for your foolproof PoE...but when did BB become a *really* good suspect to you? Iirc you were anointing him town earlier in the game. WTF?