Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

[PolarBoy]

Ok, here's how it seems to me: About half of us still have our rules. mlaker has not said yet what the result of breaking rules is, but the way that the rules currently work modargo's rule absolves us from having to do anything ridiculous provided we post intelligently.

For those who are wondering...

Also ZONEACE's rule is illegal but Mr._Gnome_It_All_'s rule is not.

Crap, that means the mafia don't have to tell us who they are and all of our night choices are random. Playing devil's advocate, cop-type roles are helped somewhat by this, as they still get an investigation but have some amount of protection if they appear. Also, considering that many of us still have our rule, it would not be too difficult to repeal it.

I've been thinking it might be a good idea to make it illegal to vote for someone who is one vote away from a lynch unless he remains in that condition for 48 hours. This could prevent speed lynches. I'm not making my rule yet though, because I don't want to use it unless I'm sure that I'm making the best use possible.

[PolarBoy]

I thought the mirror zone rule only applied to determining which group of

people

was selected, not what actually happens. Also, assuming I'm wrong about that, your rule is self-nullifying, and therefore paradoxical.

Does anybody get the feeling that we're being played by mlaker? Do we know what the penalties are for not following the rules? Are any of these rules even defined well enough that they can be reasonably followed?

Vote: Tigris

pretty much randomly.

[PolarBoy]

er...the first part of that post, the part that was all written in second person, was directed at Tigris.

[PolarBoy]

I have nothing against the removal of all of these ridiculous rules. They really are getting in the way(I pray breaking them doesn't affect our night abilities). My concern was with the logistics of voiding them.

That aside, I don't follow that last argument about cops. If a cop doesn't know who he's investigated what does it matter if his result is accurate?

I'm getting the feeling that Calvinball and Mafia don't mix.

[PolarBoy]

A note to the mod: It is certainly not your fault that half of the players got power buzz and started telling us to jump.

With that aside, I'd like to submit my rule.

The appeal rule

When a player has amassed enough votes to be one less than a simple majority, no player may cast a new vote on this player for the next 48 hours.

[PolarBoy]

Calvin ball is basically over, thanks to modargo.

I'm gonna have to reread to figure some stuff out.

[PolarBoy]

Unvote: Tigris, Vote: Mr. Gnome It All

. His rules really do favor serial killers.

[PolarBoy]

I was going to say that I wasn't impressed by MGIA's defense, as I already suggested it, on the other hand I can think of no other explanation he would offer that wouldn't be totally damning, and therefore it's not really fair to hold that against him. DOH! So do we have any broken rules? Obviously there have been none since modargo's "rule" as it basically states that the rules are moot. The question then comes down to whether breaking a rule before mlaker started the rules over would still have affect now.

[PolarBoy]

That's easy Breakdown. There are no rules in effect, as modargo has made all of them moot.

[PolarBoy]

Tigris, please never do that again. Ever. It hurt my head just reading that.

[PolarBoy]

oh yeah,

unvote: MGIA

...what to do...

[PolarBoy]

Maybe I missed this class at Scumming 101, but I don't see why Untrod or MGIA should be mafia targets tonight. Now, assuming for a moment that they are telling the truth, the mafia know what they can do. They also know what they can't do. That being investigate or protect. Vigilantes and role-blockers are loose cannons. They can certainly accomplish more than docs or cops, but they can also cause a lot more trouble. Especially since theme games often have few to no townies, it would not be surprising if they went after someone else in hopes of hitting a doc or cop at random(actually better than random now that they know a few who aren't a doc or cop).

Now we lose the postulate about them telling the truth. If they're both lying then they'll probably both be alive tommorow and no one will have been killed by a tiger, how convenient. Just like if they're telling the truth and don't get killed by the mafia, highly likely if they get protected. Actually if they're being targeted by doctors they become very high risk targets as they may be protected, in which case the mafia have just totally confirmed an innocent.

The one way this plan tells us anything is if someone get's vig killed tonight then we can be reasonably certain that UT is telling the truth and MGIA is lying. Actually it would probably be worth it for that.

Vote: Tigris

just an unrelated hunch.

[PolarBoy]

Actually ZONEACE it's perfectly logical. The only role that can confirm itself independantly is really the vigilante, so the only way a role blocker can confirm is by way of a vig. Guessing Hobbes was something of a leap though. Anyway if what you're saying is true he could just keep quiet about it and kill Hobbes tonight. Seeing as if he is scum, then scum already figured it out.

[PolarBoy]

Oh yeah I was just thinking, if you want to see an example of how targeting a protected townie can be deadly for the mafia, check out Mini 63 where I was the doc. In that I protected Gaspode on night 1 and NEHI on night 3. That piece of information was instrumental in locating the last scum. Anyway I don't seriously expect them to be targeted tonight.

[PolarBoy]

Ok, a point I'd like to make real quick. Just because there are evil aliens wouldn't necesarily mean that all aliens are evil. I remember a couple of good aliens from the strip, Cosmo and Nebular I think their names were. Anyway they helped Calvin out with a school project and in return were promised control of the earth. At any rate they really weren't bad guys. In fact they were pretty trusting. They believed Calvin's claim of being Supreme Potentate of Earth.

What I'm getting at hear is that if someone out there can discover that a player is an alien, it might be a subgroup thing. See Texas Mafia(Captain Blicero) and Robots Among Us(Mini 46, Foolster41) if you'd like an example of subgroups.

[PolarBoy]

If we're going to talk about what roles are predictable, Spaceman Spiff appeared in loads of strips, and Calvin must've cloned himself at least once a year(Once he did it five times in one strip).

But let's please please PLEASE not talk about which roles we think are plausible. Least of all in a game based on Calvin and Hobbes, even less so in a game that opened with Calvinball. That's wrong on more levels than I care to describe.

[PolarBoy]

I'm not replacing anyone. My name not being on the player list is probably a mod oversight.

[PolarBoy]

This is highly embarrasing. I'm not actually playing in this game. This explains a lot of things, like how I never received a role. The only reason that didn't clue me in is that I asked mlaker about it and he didn't respond, so I figured townies didn't receive a role. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

[PolarBoy]

I'll definitely do it if mlaker opts to replace. I'm already somewhat invested here and would like to continue.

[PolarBoy]

Re: Calvinball; I'm sorry it didn't work out, it *WAS* confuzzling, but the idea of the players making rules is an interesting one...

[hijack]If you liked that then you'll love Nomic - the game where every move changes a rule. And don't worry that the game is already started, we could ammend you in.[/hijack]

[PolarBoy]

Got my role, gonna re-read the thread to get a handle on what's happening. May not be back in until Sunday though.

[PolarBoy]

modargo's sarcasm notwithstanding I do find it somewhat vexing that players would jump on the Korais bandwagon with little or no spoken reason. It's just hard to guess whether it really is blending strategy or if there's something else going on. Maybe they all have information from their roles implicating Korais.

With 18 alive a massive revelation of Calvin clones has the potential to be disastrous. In Texas Mafia we did something like this - revealing who had weapons to help the gunsmith locate mafia - and the whole thing went miserably. The mafia and everybody else(except the pacifist) told the truth about their weapons status. This gave the 1 in 2 odds of nabbing the Doctor that night, as only one player claimed to be without weapons and only one other would not say. It also made the gunsmith role useless and didn't give us any way of locating mafia. Revealing Calvin clones could easily have the same effect. Assuming that they are all the same(They are clones after all) we've just revealed everyone who doesn't have an ability to the mafia. That means we've also revealed who does have an ability and therefore who the mafia should target. If the group is big enough the mafia can hide either by claiming to be clones or claiming not be clones and we don't have any more effective way to search. This is all assuming that there's anything even remotely predictable about the nature of the Calvin clone role. If I remember correctly from the comic there were several variations on his clones, for instance one that only represented his good side. That could mean some strange stuff. Especially when one considers that clones may also be a device for allowing Calvins various inventions(The transmogrifier, the time machine, the brain enhancer, etc.) to be distributed evenly throughout the town. This means that we just end up revealing a bunch of people with useful roles to the mafia and still know nothing about Korais' role.

Something I noticed though:

The votes on EnPaceRequiescat seem to have been missed in the vote count. Not that it matters.

Anyway, it seems to me that it's about time for korais666 to claim. Yay for bandwagons and all.

This bothers me. He seems to be trying to minimize the votes on EPR while pushing Korais666 for information while trying to maintain his distance from the bandwagon.

Vote: Modargo, FoS: EnPaceRequiescat

[PolarBoy]

Oh shoot, one of the votes mentioned is Modargo's...oops. That slightly changes the way I read the other post I was quoting. I still feel the same way about the rest of it though, so my vote remains.

[PolarBoy]

Hard to tell about that cam. No information was given about Spaceman Spiff either, so I wonder if the mod would even tell us about role abilities.

[PolarBoy]

I suppose the fact that nobody has come out with anything damning at this point means we can more or less trust mathcam and Korais.(or they can't be trusted at all, but that would be one heck of a gambit)

[PolarBoy]

Somewhat sheepish

Vote: Breakdown

. Actually I get a strange feeling that CoolBot and Breakdown might both be scum, based on their misrepresentation of each other. I'm sorry I'm not in this game much. The problem I'm having is that people's posts are so often based on a misunderstanding and therefore provide very little information about the poster.

[PolarBoy]

Hobbes was always HELPING Calvin. (examples: Rosyln Chronicles, GROSS, Every single plan to annoy Suzie, plans for cheating in class, The Duplicator parts one and two, The Transmogrifier, Scuffles with Moe (when Hobbes chases him away), Evil Mutant Snow Goons, Calvin running away to Mars, Calvin running away to the Yukon, to name a few) QED

Point being that Hobbes is pro-town

If you're going to make arguments about the source material at least don't make them self defeating. Hobbes rarely actually helped Calvin annoy Susie, he almost always turned traitor and ruined the plan, and if he didn't do that he usually protested any behavior toward girls that didn't involve smooching. In Yukon Ho! he usurped control of the mission so that he could take Calvin's rations. When Calvin invented the transmogrifier gun they ended up in a small transmogrifier war. And don't forget the incidences that weren't mentioned, like when Hobbes wrote anonymous hate-letters to annoy Calvin, or when he tried convincing him that he came from a flea market. I mean, DUUUHHHHHH!!!

Ok, enough of that. I don't really care for this line of argument, I just felt like ranting about one of the best stinkin' comic strips ever and proving what an inordinate amount of knowledge I have about it.

But seriously, I don't see why this is a big deal. By tommorow MGIA will be either confirmed or dead, and we'll have made a good use of a kill(even if it's the serial killer) Then if we still want to we can start eyeing UT nervously.

I've gotta go now, I might post again later today.

[PolarBoy]

I don't see CoolBot doing anything anti-town. Quite frankly I see the logic behind putting a doc protect on the vigilante. Admittedly I don't think the vig is all that valuable, protecting the vig makes it fairly likely that a plain townie will die, which is a near ideal situation.

Vote: ZONEACE

I just don't see any reason for this bandwagon.

[PolarBoy]

ahhh shoot. I don't know how I did it, but I saw a comment directed at Untrod Tripod(UT) and somehow read it as being against CoolBot(CB). I'll probably create some notes during the copious spare time I'll have tommorow and be able to keep track of this game better.

Untvote: ZONEACE

[PolarBoy]

You haven't seen any good posts by me because I've had nothing to say. I'm confused as all get out about this game. A lot of what has been said has been based on bizarre, far-fetched misunderstandings that I've never seen any other game. Making sense out of that is incredibly difficult, especially when there's more than 15 pages of it.

[PolarBoy]

I must've missed something big if it's day 3.

[PolarBoy]

Binky Betsy is Susie Derkins's doll. She never did anything in the comics, even in Calvin's imagination. He did once hold her for ransom though.

[PolarBoy]

Unless I've misread the claim, the parents only have one block between them. So calling them 2 role blockers isn't entirely accurate.

Not that I believe this claim though. Tigris seems kind of apathetic, and that doesn't seem like Tigris.

Vote: Tigris

[PolarBoy]

UT, you'd better have a darned good explanation for this.

[PolarBoy]

mathcam, dead men tell no tales. Read the night 3 text again. Two players in one game, can you believe it?

Anyway, I don't understand this whole thing. I don't see how ZONEACE could conceivably not be who he claims he is, so he's innocent in my book. On the other hand I wasn't suspisious of UT until day broke. Now he's killed a confirmed innocent. This by itself doesn't bother me. He has an explanation. So we have a role redirector. Fine, I'll buy that. Here's what I don't understand. Why is it that mathcam was absolutely 100% not his target, whereas ZONEACE who confirmed himself in roughly the same way, is now suspect number 1? I just don't buy it.

FOS: Untrod Tripod

I'm still reticent about voting though. Again with the role claims.

[PolarBoy]

I dunno, I just looked over the thread to see if we could find some irrefutable evidence that the Calvins are good guys. I didn't find anything. My gut tells me that they're ok though. I mean, Calvin is the only totally sympathetic character in the strip(not counting his many alter-egos). If his enemies(the teachers) are villains, then it stands to reason that he would be a good guy. I just don't see much merit in these attacks on ZONEACE

[PolarBoy]

I'm here, but unfortunately have no idea what to say(nights too long). Also I'm behind on some other stuff(I was busy all weekend) so it will probably be a couple of days before I get my bearings again. Sorry.

[PolarBoy]

How many Calvin Clones are there? I'll go with the name claim. I'm Uncle Max.

[PolarBoy]

The fact is that there's nothing to claim. The role has some flavor text about being the only adult Calvin gets along with, but doesn't detail any abilities or restrictions. Maybe there's something another role could've triggered. I don't know.

Conspicuously absent is the ability to redirect roles. I hadn't thought that that would belong to Moe though. Maybe I missed something. I'm gonna have to read some more.

[PolarBoy]

*haunts in*

I just don't care. I lost interest in this game a long time ago when everybody got replaced and I don't even know who you people are. It's like I got teleported into another mafia game.

Weren't you the one BEGGING to be in this game in the first place?

*haunts out*