vote mith
These will be good competing wagons.
Equinox wrote:THERE ARE FOUR COMPETING WAGONS
FOUR
LLAMAFLUFF HAD BETTER HAVE SOME GOOD REASONS WHY STIRRING UP A FOURTH ONE IS A GOOD IDEA
Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.
LlamaFluff wrote:Because the Amrun one is due to fall apart and the similarities between the reasoning for the mith and Sotty wagons begs for both to be available to see what side people actually fall on when to near identical cases are pushed at the same time in hopes of finding even more possible parters for the two in question.
Equinox wrote:That said, what do you think of the DemonHybrid wagon and how it built up so far and the fact that both mith and Sotty7 are on it?
My teammate is also interested in the following hypothetical situation: If you were scum with DrippingGoofball, when and how would you have bussed her?
Chris B wrote:DH, was my 'day talk' slip REALLY that ambiguous?
The one where I said:
Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.
The context is scum talk. The phrase 'scum team' may be a giveaway that I was talking about a scum team. The point I was making actually entirely falls apart based on the fact there's still the team talk rather than scum talk. Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.
I'm not liking the amount of crap you're hurling in my direction, and I'm to the point where I'm thinking you're scum getting overly defensive and trying to lynch a less experienced player. I'm also not liking the fact that DGB tried the same tactic.
Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid
mith wrote:Anyway, aside from the town read I already had on him, Chris B is likely town for the reason Amrun explained; he could have meant team talk instead of day-talk among the scumgroup (doubtful, if he comes from a site where daytalk is common), or he could just be clever scum planting "slips" that make us think he's town, but the way it happened doesn't seem to support either of those.
Equinox wrote:HEY, DEMONHYBRID. HEY.
Let me give you some meta evidence because I think it's the strongest point for Chris B.
Let's say you're getting together a team of four for Team Mafia. You've known these players from off-site, and you decide that you'll take someone from the old board, too, who has never played on mafiascum.net before. You look at the player list for Team Mafia, and you see it filled with experienced players, many of them experienced ICs and SEs. The PMs come in. For the sake of argument, you have one red PM and three green PMs. You look at your teammates...
Would you give the red PM to the guy who has never played here before?
Equinox wrote:DemonHybrid wrote:Possibly. It depends on a ton of factors, like who that guy is and how competent of a scum player he is.
Do you think this would apply to Chris B?
ALSO, DEMONHYBRID, Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, you seem to remember that. You've played with DrippingGoofball-scum before. Thoughts?
TheButtonmen wrote:D1VC7:
DGB (6): Socio, Thor, IP, Equinox, Sotty, mith
Llamarble (3): LlamaFluff, Sevei, ChrisB
Socio (1): DGB,
Thor (1): Llamarble
Not Voting: DH, Klazam
With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.
DGB is V/LA from May 19-24.
DemonHybrid wrote:Chris B wrote:DH, was my 'day talk' slip REALLY that ambiguous?
The one where I said:
Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.
The context is scum talk. The phrase 'scum team' may be a giveaway that I was talking about a scum team. The point I was making actually entirely falls apart based on the fact there's still the team talk rather than scum talk. Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.
I'm not liking the amount of crap you're hurling in my direction, and I'm to the point where I'm thinking you're scum getting overly defensive and trying to lynch a less experienced player. I'm also not liking the fact that DGB tried the same tactic.
Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid
Is THAT why you're voting me?! Do you even fucking read? You know, when I noted the fact that I missed this post but said "who cares, it still started on Day 2 and you could be scum who received advice from your competent buddy"?
This is opportunism at it's finest, people.
DemonHybrid wrote:I'm used to that being the default. It was part of the reason I had the theory of you and IP working together - that would be entirely unworkable if day talk doesn't exist, and would partially explain why nobody else considered the theory.
I can also back up that I'm used to it being the default. I pointed towards my experience on the UKFF - you can see for yourself that I think there's maybe been one game that didn't have day talk if you go onto the site.
Oh, I missed this. I guess it was specified as scum daytalk. For some reason, I thought it was an ambiguous "scum can get advice from their QT" statement that was never explained.
This doesn't confirm anything though and I'm still not convinced. Using some meta to prove my point, I was just in 00's Band Mafia as Green Day; it was the game I was finishing up before completely focusing on this game. Tarsonisocelot, who's a relatively new player, claimed her band to be "Some band called Cage the Elephant; never really heard of them. Their main song is Free Love. Whatever." At the time, she sounded extremely convincing, because not only was she newer and not only did we assume that scum got no fakeclaims, it was also a very obscure song. She was relatively believed until endgame when other factors contributed to her and others' lynches; she ended up being Van Halen.
Anyway, my point is thatscum can lieabout behind-the-scenes stuff like that, like "assuming there's daytalk". Focus on Chris' play. DGB started throwing suspicion on Chris near the end of the day before getting lynched. Chris claims that he thought there was daytalk. However, he's making up cases with weak basis, active lurking and giving spread-out mini-wall posts, all of which are scumtells. Who CARES about whether he thought there was scum daytalk? Scum have night talk. Who cares whether DGB shifted suspicion on him at the -end- of the day? You realize that scum can do that to distance before the end of the day comes in order to relieve suspicion on them? It's the EARLY suspicions that really hit home as far as scum interaction goes and I'm really kinda shocked that everyone is arguing for Chris' innocence by forgetting that.
DemonHybrid wrote:Wow. So, yeah, lets not even focus on the argument. Lets focus on some stupid bullshit that doesn't really make that much sense, like whether or not I missed the original post or the post where you specified it.
You realize that you're completely ignoring the POINT of the fucking situation?
REGARDLESS of the post number (and yes, I missed the implication that you meant scum daytalk in your original post and the specification of all of your posts about scum daytalk afterwards), the fact remains that
1. I first thought it was ambiguous
2. I realized it wasn't
3. I recanted the fact that I thought it was ambiguous still, but said "Who really gives a fuck? You're probably scum with a smart partner that told you to say that."
Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.
4. You vote me for 1 and ignore 2 and 3
5. I tell you that you ignored 2 and 3
6. You post some dumb bullshit about how my point isn't valid because I missed post A and was talking about post B, both with point X, even though I was talking about point X in the first place.
Your vote is stupid and opportunistic. It is opportunistic because I have 3 votes on me, with 2 strong multi-player town reads on it. But the reasoning for your vote is non-existent, because Irecanted what you're voting for and explained why the alternative is STILL scummy, which you continue to ignore.
Once you come down from your dream world where meanings and implications don't matter, but post order does, I'll be here waiting with a fucking noose.
Chris wrote:Except you realised that it wasn't once you read the follow-up post. My point is that the original post wasn't ambiguous either. And using ambiguity to attack me is a bit bullshitty.
Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.
mith wrote:Here's what I think about his play: "ChrisB: I read him as town consistently yesterday... In light of the flip, the vote for Llamarble over DGB looks bad (but that was my first instinct as well, so hard to blame him for it), and I'm a little wary of the "Should I hammer?" post." Chris B didn't post much day 1, but what he posted was cogent and thorough. I found little fault with him throughout day 1 apart from being on the wrong side of the DGB wagon. Day 2, he was on V/LA, and then his very first post was the scum-talk post; once I looked at the MD Team Mafia thread to see that there was nothing about day-talk in there, I have basically ruled him out as scum.
This is funny, given your own stalling at the end of day 1.
Why would he do this? If he were scum with DGB, and he's going to say he agrees with the lynch, why not just hammer? He's the only one off-wagon who expresses suspicion of DGB... and that somehow makes him scummy?
Really? You're comparing an out-of-nowhere defense (of you, ironically) relying on scum having day-talk to scum having fakeclaims and using them?
And my point is that the existence of alternative possibilities does not negate the weight of the tell. Nothing is 100%
Even if I accepted that these are scumtells (and the latter certainly is more a playstyle indicator than anything)
I don't think he's "active lurking" (which to me means "posting lots without actually saying anything of substance"; with Chris B, I see infrequent but content-filled posts), and I'm not seeing where you've made much of an argument for him "making up cases with weak basis".
Your case seems to focus more on "hey, let's ignore these things that point to Chris B being town, because he could be scum anyway" than anything.